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Kavarr

Ret paladin opener.

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Hello all. I am a aspiring ret paladin who is pushing to get into higher levels of play. I feel I have the rotation down pretty well and pull fairly good numbers for my gear (mostly full lfr and some flex with the legendary) but I have one thing that stumps me.

On my boss opener, I always wondered and haven't been able to figure it out well, when I open up do I wanna fire off guardian and avenging wrath at the same time? I know guardian has that 10 second delay where it has to reach full power, but on the pull you have potions, and all trinkets going. But after the initial 10 seconds of guardian your trinkets are gone or about to end. And avenging wrath doesn't get the benefit or it is only 3-4 seconds of it.

So my question is should I use both initially and get all at once, even of the guardian has the ramp up, or should I stagger the avenging wrath and miss the trinkets?

Thank you for any help and comments.

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The way I've been told how to do it is this:

 

Guardian on pull

Get to 3 HoPo and start up Inq

Then hit AW and go to town

 

It may not be at 12 stacks yet, but it'll be well on it's way, with your trinkets in the middle of their durations.  Make sure, if you're specced for Execution Sentence, that you hit it once your Guardian buff is at the full 12 stacks, as it'll snapshot that increased Strength!

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Thank you very much!

That's kinda what I felt like would be the best method. But I wanted to he sure with someone else.

Also I was told execution sentence doesn't actually stap shot lol.

Which confised me lol but I took his word on it because I couldn't find anything else

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Thank you very much!

That's kinda what I felt like would be the best method. But I wanted to he sure with someone else.

Also I was told execution sentence doesn't actually stap shot lol.

Which confised me lol but I took his word on it because I couldn't find anything else

I'm 100% sure that Execution Sentence snapshots, even though I haven't been able to find any super specific confirmation on it.

 

You should definitely be using it at 12 stacks, but probably not delaying it for anything else later.

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I can confirm that all heroic raiders I've talked to about ret when I was learning it also told me to use ES at capped GoAK.

 

Quoting a conversation I had where I mention info anafielle talked to me about:

 

Hey, I had messaged Anafielle about the same time I sent you this message, and Ana says that you should hold back your ES until your stacks of GoAK cap.

 

Auriel's take on the subject of ret openers when I asked him a while ago.

Basically my average pull goes:

 

Pre-Pot @ 2 secs to pull

Move to boss on pull

CS

Judge

Exo

Inq 

Burst

Hammer

Judge

Hammer

(by then stacks are at 10 and I have all my trinket procs up)

ES

Hammer

TV

Hammer

then follow my AW rotation and move into my non burst rotation.

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Even if it doesn't snap-shot, there is huge benefit to casting ES at full stacks of GoAK.  If you cast before then, even if it updates dynamically, some of the ticks will have lower power.  Also, the remaining duration of GoAK after max stacks is longer than the total duration of ES, ensuring you have max power for all ticks and the final burst.  The only way snap-shotting would be an issue is if you decided (for some reason) to delay ES until the end of GoAK, and hoped to carry the full strength of the buff throughout.

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Fouton, that rotation doesn't have GoAK in there.  Would it be combined with 'Burst', or on the pre-pot in their optimal scenario?

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Honestly I never asked, but Burst is a "Burst macro" so I imagine thats where GoAK and Wings is. I can't confirm that it's the most optimal.

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That opener is assuming Sanctified Wrath (hence the HW-filler-HW), in which case "burst" is GoAK and AW.  The OP appears to use either Holy Avenger (which would also be good for opening burst) or Divine Purpose.

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Concerning my opener rotation - generally I use GoAK when I have both my str prcs from my trinkets up, whether this is at the start of the fight or after I have 3HP (in which case my burst uses it) I can't exactly place it in a rotation, though I try to use it on pull (it's in my macro because I forget all the time though)

 

 

Edit: Concerning ES - Yes as far as I'm aware it snapshots I generally try to use it at the highest point of my burst (all str procs up and GoAK at 12 stacks) but you should also always couple it with either a single trinket proc, or both if possible, if you're not an engi, and if you are an engi, always use it with synapse springs.

Edited by Auriel

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Okay, so here's a random observation that I'm not sure is even viable:  IF ES really does snapshot, could it be beneficial to delay it to the end of all applicable buffs in order to maximize the rest of your rotation during the opener?  For example, by not losing that GCD early, do you get an extra HW or TV out of the deal?  Or do you just put the non-HP related GCD in a different spot and gain nothing?  Purely hypothetical, and only worth so much, but maximized is maximized.

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Okay, so here's a random observation that I'm not sure is even viable:  IF ES really does snapshot, could it be beneficial to delay it to the end of all applicable buffs in order to maximize the rest of your rotation during the opener?  For example, by not losing that GCD early, do you get an extra HW or TV out of the deal?  Or do you just put the non-HP related GCD in a different spot and gain nothing?  Purely hypothetical, and only worth so much, but maximized is maximized.

 

Theoretically this is best practice.

But for myself i have to observe 5 buffs (2 trinket procs, syn springs, dancing steel and max stacks from GoAK) plus wings.

I've added all this to a WA trigger which plays an alert tone if all procs are up and i hear this sound every other pull at most.

Edited by LobbyBoy

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@LobbyBoy - could you link your WA string here? I'd like to give that a shot. I'm very new to the retribution role and have been playing around with it as an Offspec. I feel I have a very comfortable understanding of priority rotation, survivability and raid awareness.. I'm now looking at a way to min/max.. CD usage and procs being one of them. Thanks in advance.

 

@Fouton - I notice the quoted rotation having a Judgement after the first Hammer. I've always heard that CS takes priority of Judge, and by looking at the rotation CS should be available. Am I missing something here? Does judgement give more burst? 

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@Fouton - I notice the quoted rotation having a Judgement after the first Hammer. I've always heard that CS takes priority of Judge, and by looking at the rotation CS should be available. Am I missing something here? Does judgement give more burst? 

with how spell power scales with str right now, judge takes priority while str procs are up.

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Theoretically this is best practice.

But for myself i have to observe 5 buffs (2 trinket procs, syn springs, dancing steel and max stacks from GoAK) plus wings.

I've added all this to a WA trigger which plays an alert tone if all procs are up and i hear this sound every other pull at most.

 

So if you have your "pentafecta," just drop the hammer and reap the benefits.  But if something hasn't procced yet, especially certain trinkets, can you buy it a couple seconds to try to line up, or just blow it anyway?  The other buffs may then fall off during the duration, but in this strategy it snapshots, so there is no penalty and you are actually GAINING by extending the buff outside of the initial window (like time warp, or Affliction BBoY stack snapshotting).  This could also be a thing if you've reached that point where crit becomes viable, and possibly run with Skeers.

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@LobbyBoy - could you link your WA string here? 

 

Unfortunately i'm away on business atm. But nevertheless i have WOW on my notebook here wink.png

Because i don't have my orig WA strings on this pc, i've tried to rebuilt the trigger yesterday evening and tested it on the dummy (- i have almost forgotten how boring the back of a dummy looks).

 

So here we go:

dm0DiaqErz9IqTFvrDlPIABvukddrCmqAzQk8mvrMgi6AssTnePVjcgNiPohffUhffzFsfoOi1cLk9qvvMOijxueTrvL(OirJuvvNKIQxsrjMPu1orIFkjgkfzPGWtvMkvUQKKTsrj9vrinwriSwkkvZfr1Ej)vsnyvfDyuTyvPhdQMmkDzOnJuFgHrJKoTepCeIETurMnkUTOA3a)MQgofooff1Yv55sz6cxNsBhu(oIY4vf2LiHfu50kAMtXLeIVP)LKCZ)vHYipoolwZp4u5ONXtKvN4c48DI6ZF2iZFSAnTpsbjPOATCnwnw50YQqt3WqFjLuinJudjKqtiHNiPAsjHer3ziHu7qIIh4YmqTcCpqdyZDxHGaVMOKGghuY5rXdKtRf8lKtZ4WggAVElaoMkeoptHwoVaKtlYmqnJdByOzCyddTxVfahvOqJdpkEqtoTwWVqonwFnbJNm9QX6RHBBHpxVAnVfWQnVfWsEQ8Ewol5PSoLEaH78mmKanfKXHPX6RBElGvDvOrxaLgv50AElGTgovoaGmA7BIqJ1xd32cFUE1AElGvBElGL8u59SCwYtP)LPaQ79rGxwDfdeqYtPGmomnwFDZBbSQRcfACB41RgNLTefpGZuhxHGaVMCIcu50IRqqGNCArMbQXThxRzFryiiMLMU8qR(x65QNlneonegccT)iNjOQ1SVimeeMoKU8qBMs23RzB4pVfeQRgCVfeAqjrdU3cIkg4Xd)P1HzsdWZXMCIcuTQootGp)Pz540HcnlOeAgm8m80yXxlnTlZa1(NS303Q6vOzbXviiWtofkeLpKtlUcbbEYPfzgOg3ECTM9fHHGywA6YdT6FPNREU0q408KbQayYuxnegccT)iNjOQ1SVimeeMoKU8qBMs23RzBieyU6QDyUguTdZRyGhp8NwhAaEo2KtuGQLm3irA2olGqHMfucndgEgEAS4RLM2LzGA)t2B6Bv9k0SG4kee 4jNcfIYtYPfxHGap50omxdQwZ(IWqqmlnD5Hw9V0ZvpxAiCAimeeA)rotqvRzFryiimDiD5H2mLSVxlYmqnU94A2g(ZBbH6Qb3BbHg0e0G7TGOIbE8WFADODyEfd84H)06qdWZXMCIcuTuECBJN3jSek0SGsOzWWZWtJfFT00Umdu7FYEtFRQxHMfexHGap5uOquGuoT4kee4jNwKzGAC7X1A2xegcIzPPlp0Q)LEU65sdHtZtgOcGjtD1qyii0(JCMGQwZ(IWqqy6q6YdTzkzFVMTHqG5QR2H5Aq1omVIbE8WFADOb45ytorbQ2YaCJgcOrw8ak0SGsOzWWZWtJfFT00Umdu7FYEtFRQxHMfexHGap5uOquQwoT4kee4jNwKzGAC7X1A2xegcIzPPlp0Q)LEU65sdHtZtgOcGjtD1qyii0(JCMGQwZ(IWqqy6q6YdTzkzFVMTHqG5QR2H5Aq1omVIbE8WFADOb45ytorbQMz3FGcb(8NMv8iqMWciuOzbLqZGHNHNgl(APPDzgO2)K9M(wvVcnliUcbbEYPqHOqQCAXviiWtoTM9fHHGW0H0LhAZuY(ETiZa142JRzbLqZGHNHNwZ(IWqqmlnD5Hw9V0ZvpxAiCAaEo2KtuGQzoWmBlTsu8afAEYavamzQRgcdbH2FKZeu1yXxlnTlZa1(NS303Q6vOzbXviiWtofkuOfxHGap50SnecmxD1omxdQ2H5vmWJh(tRdnaphBYjkq1CCqIralEp)5covgfk0iRWgu1xst9hvNqQ)akKpL6esa6hKi6odjPAfwTeLQ3BKOu9EdnQyHGAOVKMq1v)KzajPKygFanHQFIur3zijvJT0my4zMd3d0mhe4rZHJKBoCpOrEZazyQn4mC2cOgFGWTrXdAiiqaCuJXZzLtZ2WA4m8wtD1opdkNwULjkYPqHgCgERjNwRaiyqntP7tNkZPOqHcnUCAooiXiGfVN)CbNkJM5uCjH4B6Fjj38Fv OmYJJZI18dovo6z8ez1jUaoFNO(8NnY8hRcnyIcuiHsIcja 

I've done this on a german wow client with german spell names, so i hope it works for you.

 

A few words on how i used it:

  • Pull as usual (CS - J - Exo) and set up Inq
  • Fire Wings and GoAK
  • Use Syn Springs on first trinket proc (i've a sound alert for them separately)
  • Wait for the big GONG wink.png

The biggest problem is, that dancing steel or a trinket procs on the first hit usually, so you haven't much time to bring up Inq.

For this i've tried to use Inq with the first hp and this was the only way i was able to use ES with all buffs up.

 

BTW: I'm using Skeers because Thok is a bad dino and won't give his little tail tip to me angry.png 

If you are blue-eyed enough you can try and optimise the trigger for higher crit stacks in addition laugh.png

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I would actually just drop Dancing Steel from the WA completely, just because of it's low relative value and inconsistency in proccing.

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Ideal opener depends on talent choices.

Sanctified Wrath: Prepot with 2 seconds to pull>Sacred Shield if you have Sacred shield>Judgment>Exo>Inq>AW/GoAK>HoW>TV/DS(Depending on cleave or no cleave)>HoW>Filler>How>Filler>TV/DS and carry on. Wait to pop your Execution Sentence when you're at 12 stacks of GoAK/Trinkets and enchants are proc'd. Sometimes one of the trinkets, or Dancing Steel might fall of just as or just before you drop an ES. Keep in mind, GoAK actually benefits from Inquisition as well. So it's important to have Inq up just before you pop AW/GoAK. 

Divine Purpose: Similiar start except you're going to delay your Avenging Wrath until you reach 12 stacks of GoAK. By that point it's close enough to 10 seconds into the buff, you're not really wasting enough time for it to be a dps loss. Obviously you're going to want to HoW on CD, but also use any DP procs you get, and TV as much as possible during this time. Same process applies for ES as well.

Edited by Daltek

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I would actually just drop Dancing Steel from the WA completely, just because of it's low relative value and inconsistency in proccing.

 

True, Dancing steel is not that important because of it's low value but it's mostly the first proc on a pull.

And as this is purley hypothetical, i decided to take it into account.

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...

Sacred Shield if you have Sacred shield

...

 

I'm not shure, but is it possible to cause a proc with SS?

If i remember rightly, i've heard something about not using 'speed of light' on a pull because of triggering early procs.

Can this be true?

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I'm not shure, but is it possible to cause a proc with SS?

If i remember rightly, i've heard something about not using 'speed of light' on a pull because of triggering early procs.

Can this be true?

I've never had SoL proc anything as it isn't a melee attack. Maybe for healers? Idk

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I've never had SoL proc anything as it isn't a melee attack. Maybe for healers? Idk

 

i think this is my task for the evening tongue.png

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