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Starym

The Eternal Ones Talk About the Jailer's Original Imprisonment (Cutscene)

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Here's a new (but still work in progress) cutscene that was added to the 9.1 PTR in the latest update, as we get to find out (mostly) why the Jailer was imprisoned in the Maw! Spoilers ahead.

In this cutscene coming very close to the start of the 9.1 main story, we see the current heads of the Covenants talk about the Jailer's attack on the Archon and how he's coming for Ardenweald next, as they also mention that the very reason he was imprisoned/exiled to the Maw in the first place. Apparently he wanted the Covenant "symbols" that "were given" to the Eternal Ones as he thought they were keys to forbidden knowledge and then tried to take them by force when the other leaders "rebuked his heresy". Who exactly gave these symbols to them or what this knowledge is remains a mystery, but the cutscene also sets up the end of the Sanctum of Domination raid, as they mention the importance of the Arbiter's essence.


While this isn't the most exciting development and doesn't add much to the story, it does focus it entirely around these "keys" or "symbols", as the whole Shadowlands story and conflict has been about them from the start. It's also looking pretty likely that by the end of 9.1 the Jailer will have all of them, and then there's the big question of what he does next! There's one particularly awesome theory out there that I'm personally hoping for, and will cover very soon.

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My theory is he will gain all the sigils and enact his plan. In order to stop all of reality from unwinding, we end up going with Chromie to the Dragon Isles to unlock the ultimate power of the bronze dragonflight, allowing us to go back in time and stop Than.. the Jailer.

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1 hour ago, durdyenglish said:

My theory is he will gain all the sigils and enact his plan. In order to stop all of reality from unwinding, we end up going with Chromie to the Dragon Isles to unlock the ultimate power of the bronze dragonflight, allowing us to go back in time and stop Than.. the Jailer.

you forgot green jesus who yells for the horde and then " imma firin ma lazor " and then his best body khadgar takes him on a jorney there and back again an azeroth tale while smoking their pipes

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1 hour ago, durdyenglish said:

My theory is he will gain all the sigils and enact his plan. In order to stop all of reality from unwinding, we end up going with Chromie to the Dragon Isles to unlock the ultimate power of the bronze dragonflight, allowing us to go back in time and stop Than.. the Jailer.

oh boy i hope they dont go for this time travel stuff again for a long time better lets take so power of that domant laying thing in oribos (totally forgot her name ) and nuclear option the *filtered* out of the jailer i think the plot of time travel to a point were the enemy wasnt as strong as he is in present time is a bad plot over all no matter if its in a game or movie 

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48 minutes ago, N3ilo said:

oh boy i hope they dont go for this time travel stuff again for a long time better lets take so power of that domant laying thing in oribos (totally forgot her name ) and nuclear option the *filtered* out of the jailer i think the plot of time travel to a point were the enemy wasnt as strong as he is in present time is a bad plot over all no matter if its in a game or movie 

Yeah, that would have been even worse. Especially when Shadowlands just like Twisting Nether are supposed to be "outside of normal time flow" (yet somehow we time traveled to fight past versions of demons in a past, so perhaps this claim doesn't matter...). It's going to be bad enough if Sylvanas gets some sort of redemption or remains behind like Illidan did in Legion. This is still a possibility, while Jailer is likely to die, since he is a new character, they might be reluctant to do anything to Sylvanas.

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well we know that zovaal will be the final boss of the expansion and with that he is likely to die and there was a comic short story or some like that which indicated that sylvanas might get her redemtion arc

i personally still beliebe we don't kill zovaal we just imprision him like we did with sargeras and that she will be banned to the maw too

i mean vanilla kel died or so we thought

kil'jaden was banished but still alive

Arthas died (not counting rubin sanctum)

deathwing died

garrosh was imprisioned (died later in wod)

archimonde died (not sure if he is in the nether)

argus died and his last essence was used to imprision sargeras

n'zoth died

zovaal could be imprisioned or banish what ever u wanna call it

at least if it follows that pattern dead imprision dead dead imprision dead dead dead ?imprision?

with dead at least pressumly dead

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5 hours ago, Arcling said:

Yeah, that would have been even worse. Especially when Shadowlands just like Twisting Nether are supposed to be "outside of normal time flow" (yet somehow we time traveled to fight past versions of demons in a past, so perhaps this claim doesn't matter...). It's going to be bad enough if Sylvanas gets some sort of redemption or remains behind like Illidan did in Legion. This is still a possibility, while Jailer is likely to die, since he is a new character, they might be reluctant to do anything to Sylvanas.

as a forsaken since vanilla my heart really hopes sylvanas comes back to lead us and i think we will learn that nothing she did was of free will but i totally can understand why this cant happen cause soooooo manny poeple would flipp there tables 

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2 hours ago, N3ilo said:

as a forsaken since vanilla my heart really hopes sylvanas comes back to lead us and i think we will learn that nothing she did was of free will but i totally can understand why this cant happen cause soooooo manny poeple would flipp there tables 

Oh man... that would be THE ULTIMATE terrible writing decision of the century. You really want the resolution to 2 entire expansions worth of plot, plus almost the ENTIRETY of Sylvanas' WoW presence to be anulled because she was magically controlled by the Jailer all along? REALLY?

If they pull that crap I'm just utterly out (but they won't). Even a half-hearted attempt to redeem her with some sacrifice would be better than a random "lol she wasn't herself the past 10 years NP ALL GOOD"...

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3 hours ago, N3ilo said:

as a forsaken since vanilla my heart really hopes sylvanas comes back to lead us and i think we will learn that nothing she did was of free will but i totally can understand why this cant happen cause soooooo manny poeple would flipp there tables 

Why do people still trying to make a Kerrigan out of an undead Eren with boobs...

Resigning to "it was mind control" would just wipe her clean of any semblance character she is left with now. The best 'redemption' she can get is owning up to all the atrocities she commited and resigning to the fate she was running away from, terrified, since Cata.

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1 hour ago, Teufel said:

Why do people still trying to make a Kerrigan out of an undead Eren with boobs...

Resigning to "it was mind control" would just wipe her clean of any semblance character she is left with now. The best 'redemption' she can get is owning up to all the atrocities she commited and resigning to the fate she was running away from, terrified, since Cata.

 

2 hours ago, Starym said:

Oh man... that would be THE ULTIMATE terrible writing decision of the century. You really want the resolution to 2 entire expansions worth of plot, plus almost the ENTIRETY of Sylvanas' WoW presence to be anulled because she was magically controlled by the Jailer all along? REALLY?

If they pull that crap I'm just utterly out (but they won't). Even a half-hearted attempt to redeem her with some sacrifice would be better than a random "lol she wasn't herself the past 10 years NP ALL GOOD"...

i know this is a game with magic but i never thought about mind controlle crap my theory is that she just stumbelt into some sort of deal she cant get out of beginning with this deal she struck with hellja back in legion(and as we know now she works for the jailer) cause she was trying to safe her people cause the forsaken were always her top priority and i totally understand that after what happend she cant go back to what was before but i think we deserve a good written end to her story that tells us why she did what she did and not just some oh she turnt crazy and want all of us dead caus thats not sylvanas  

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54 minutes ago, N3ilo said:

 

i know this is a game with magic but i never thought about mind controlle crap my theory is that she just stumbelt into some sort of deal she cant get out of beginning with this deal she struck with hellja back in legion(and as we know now she works for the jailer) cause she was trying to safe her people cause the forsaken were always her top priority and i totally understand that after what happend she cant go back to what was before but i think we deserve a good written end to her story that tells us why she did what she did and not just some oh she turnt crazy and want all of us dead caus thats not sylvanas  

You might be a bit oblivious, but Sylvanas' motivations, at least prior to Blizzard retconning the Jailer into those, were very much simplistic, and had little to do with the Forsaken. And she didn't give a *filtered* about them even prior to the events I'm about to recount, more thought of them as weapons of her vengeance.

After Arthas' death, Sylvanas hurled herself from Icecrown to her death, which turned out to be a pitch-black void she'd be confined to spend eternity in. Horrified, she made a pact with the nine Val'kyr who would follow her and take her place in that afterlife each time she dies - presumably at this point she entered the Jailer's service. After the event, she still was not caring about Forsaken in a way Jaina would about Theramore or Vol'jin about his tribe, instead thinking them a barrier between her and oblivion.

That said, Sylvanas died quite a few times since, each time taking some Val'kyr away, and claiming more in Legion would ensure her immortality first and foremost. And at this point, what writers really should have aimed at is the entire "Shadowlands is unjust, I'm working for everyone's freedom" being an excuse of a selfish person who is just terrified of dying and knowing what kind of eternity awaits her. She won't be redeemed, but her actions would be understandable, and she won't look like yet another genocidal hypocrite forcing their version of "freedom" on the world.

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4 hours ago, Teufel said:

After Arthas' death, Sylvanas hurled herself from Icecrown to her death, which turned out to be a pitch-black void she'd be confined to spend eternity in. Horrified, she made a pact with the nine Val'kyr who would follow her and take her place in that afterlife each time she dies - presumably at this point she entered the Jailer's service. After the event, she still was not caring about Forsaken in a way Jaina would about Theramore or Vol'jin about his tribe, instead thinking them a barrier between her and oblivion.

oke when thinnking about it i totally can see this whole the forsaken are used as a barrier thing especially after arthas dead. i dont think the kailer got her when she died at icecrown the pact with the valkyr was a good trade for both cause they were bound to the will of the lichking even after his death so they used her to get out there 

 

4 hours ago, Teufel said:

She won't be redeemed, but her actions would be understandable, and she won't look like yet another genocidal hypocrite forcing their version of "freedom" on the world.

im fine with her not being redeemd at the end i know there isnt really a way back to the horde after what happend especially with the horde giong into a lovingly course with the allaince and no one is willing to exept that burning down a poorly defendet major city of your enemy is a clever move when you are at war but i hope atleast she isnt giong into history as a crazy lunatic cause thats what bugs me the most cause when you interact with her after sauerfangs death when you were a loyal servent she acts so calm and says some thing along the line of dont worry everything will end up well we got that 

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On 5/26/2021 at 7:15 PM, Teufel said:

Why do people still trying to make a Kerrigan out of an undead Eren with boobs...

Resigning to "it was mind control" would just wipe her clean of any semblance character she is left with now. The best 'redemption' she can get is owning up to all the atrocities she commited and resigning to the fate she was running away from, terrified, since Cata.

I dont want to really off topic but AOT's ending was so rushed imo. With the way the story was going, there were 2 solid options, the author made a tiny mix of both and it was pretty bad. I can understand why the author chose the ending he did since its bittersweet but it was so "meh" tier. It's almost as if he said screw this, pulled that ending out of his *filtered* and was like damnm this is good! Lmao.

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2 hours ago, Serrated said:

I dont want to really off topic but AOT's ending was so rushed imo. With the way the story was going, there were 2 solid options, the author made a tiny mix of both and it was pretty bad. I can understand why the author chose the ending he did since its bittersweet but it was so "meh" tier. It's almost as if he said screw this, pulled that ending out of his *filtered* and was like damnm this is good! Lmao.

(Spoiler alert for AoT Season 4)

Whether it is rushed or no, this is not the place to discuss it, there is a number of similarities between Eren and Sylvanas, most notably commiting an unprecedented manslaughter in the name of remaking the planet to suit their definition of a free world, be it Sylvanas wanting a choice in regards to afterlife for all, or Eren achieving a world without Titans for whoever survives the ordeal.

And while Eren's actions are certainly affected by another force, that being his own knowledge of the end result of their story, and Sylvanas may or not be affected by Zovaal, be it blackmailing or mind control, it's the resolution that counts for me.

Eren owns up to his genocide, and admits he'd do it anyway even if he wasn't influenced and knew the end result being Titans going extinct, which cements him in a more negative way, since his intent would differ greatly in that case.

For Sylvanas, who IS inherently on the more 'villanous' side, this development would mean little, so I feel her accepting the consequences of her actions and admitting she's just terrified of dying and acts as she does out of her own free will, rather than hiding behind the "noble causes" and not getting the redemption arc is what should be done with what she is now, imo.

Of course, unless we get "mind control!" route and an absolute mess that goes with it.

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