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Will Sylvanas Die at the End of the 9.1 Raid?

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Ausgamers interviewed Ion Hazzikostas, who had something to say about Sylvanas and her fate in Patch 9.1. This article contains spoilers.

Sylvanas Windrunner is the final boss of the Sanctum of Domination raid coming in Patch 9.1. Many of us are anxiously waiting to watch the encrypted defeat cinematic, but the raid opens one week after the raid is released.

Fortunately, Game Director Ion Hazzikostas mentioned in the interview an interesting bit about the Banshee Queen and the raid encounter:

Quote

“The encounter that has been crafted at the end of the Raid - I think it's epic,” Ion continues. “It’s on a scale that exceeds the vast majority of what we've ever tried to pull off in past Raids. And there is a combination that I can't spoil, but I am looking forward to seeing the community discuss and dissect as they try to figure out what's next for her. And what's next for the Shadowlands as a whole.” 

Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

He's looking forward to seeing the community discuss and dissect as they try to figure out what's next for her, which indirectly implies that we won't hear the last of her in Patch 9.1.

The encounter is probably going to end just like the Jaina fight in Dazar'alor, where Proudmoore didn't die in the end. Would you like Sylvanas to survive or die? Let us know in the comments!

You can read the whole interview here.

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I wonder if this will tie into the whole soul splitting function of Frostmourne and her "bad soul" will be defeated and we try and somehow save the good portion of her soul. 

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I would prefer to see her demise. I'm so sick and tired of Blizzard's convoluted, unsatisfactory endings. Her story has evolved to the point the her surviving is unsupportable.

If we don't kill her then...at the very least...send her off to the Villian's Retirement Home never to be seen or heard of again.

I am thoroughly sick of her.

Edited by Calysia
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31 minutes ago, trixstar said:

I wonder if this will tie into the whole soul splitting function of Frostmourne and her "bad soul" will be defeated and we try and somehow save the good portion of her soul. 

God I hope not, that would be such horrifically terrible writing...

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Technically though what would death be for her? Isn't she already a banshee, therefore she is already dead. I think Blizz are hinting at that we WILL kill Sylvanas, but the way they have the mythic title, it wont be like previous boss kills.

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6 minutes ago, Calysia said:

I would prefer to see her demise. I'm so sick and tired of Blizzard's convoluted, unsatisfactory endings. Her story has evolved to the point the her surviving is unsupportable.

If we don't kill her then...at the very least...send her off to the Villian's Retirement Home never to be seen or heard of again.

I am thoroughly sick of her.

That might still happen. I think a simple "she died" + death monologue would be a bad end to her character. The fact she doesn't die DIRECTLY in the raid and maybe even survives until the very end of Shadowlands is fine IMO, as long as she does die/pays for her colossal, gargantuan sins.

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33 minutes ago, Starym said:

That might still happen. I think a simple "she died" + death monologue would be a bad end to her character. The fact she doesn't die DIRECTLY in the raid and maybe even survives until the very end of Shadowlands is fine IMO, as long as she does die/pays for her colossal, gargantuan sins.

i also think she is far past the point were she can return she even lost the trust of the forsaken and this guys would hat burned the whole world for her even thou i dont think her sins were that colossal but i hope we get a really  really good satisfyinng and to her story and get a good reason for her working with the jailer cause at the end of bfa after the whole saufang deal it doesnt feel like shes crazy or even mind controlled when you talk to her as a loyalist 

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27 minutes ago, N3ilo said:

i also think she is far past the point were she can return she even lost the trust of the forsaken and this guys would hat burned the whole world for her even thou i dont think her sins were that colossal but i hope we get a really  really good satisfyinng and to her story and get a good reason for her working with the jailer cause at the end of bfa after the whole saufang deal it doesnt feel like shes crazy or even mind controlled when you talk to her as a loyalist 

I mean... she basically tried to exterminate an entire race of people in order to gain power to complete her own personal goals. Not sure how much worse a person can get before you get to call them "colossal" sins?

But yea she was not mind controller or anything similar and if Blizzard do the "lol she only had her evil soul since Frostmourne and that's why she's doing evil stuff" I will literally not read another god damn line of text the "writers" write. There's still ways in which they can redeem her character STORY, not her actual character, so that she remains evil but accepts it and admits it and all the horrible things she did. So I'm definitely hopeful they don't ruin her further (to me she was a shit character ever since BfA basically, that expansion reeeeeally ruined a lot of stories in WoW... god I hate it).

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1 hour ago, Calysia said:

I would prefer to see her demise. I'm so sick and tired of Blizzard's convoluted, unsatisfactory endings. Her story has evolved to the point the her surviving is unsupportable.

Main issue is that her writing is somewhat inconsistent. It made sense when she only cared about her vengeance on Arthas and also wanted to secure the survival of her Forsaken. But then it went to her wanting to win the war for the Horde, then not caring about them again, not even caring about Forsaken, sacrificing them to the Alliance so they could fuel the machine of death. Suddenly she's got some great master plan (which happened off-screen and wasn't forshadowed at all). Similar to Garrosh, who once cared about honor, then went into full orc supremacist mode.

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53 minutes ago, Starym said:

I mean... she basically tried to exterminate an entire race of people in order to gain power to complete her own personal goals. Not sure how much worse a person can get before you get to call them "colossal" sins?

well for me the whole burning down the tree thing still is a war thing its not nice its not pretty but from the point that the horde wants to win the war its a logical move i highly doubt that the allince would be nice if they would win the war with there orc work camps and lets dont talk about the forsaken they surely would just be burned but every body has a right on there own opinion and i can understand why many people think like you

 

57 minutes ago, Starym said:

(to me she was a *filtered* character ever since BfA basically, that expansion reeeeeally ruined a lot of stories in WoW... god I hate it).

at that point im totally with you as a forsaken player since vanilla i was so exitet when my queen got to rule the horde and then they butchert her story so hard you could just cry 

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16 minutes ago, Arcling said:

Main issue is that her writing is somewhat inconsistent. It made sense when she only cared about her vengeance on Arthas and also wanted to secure the survival of her Forsaken. But then it went to her wanting to win the war for the Horde, then not caring about them again, not even caring about Forsaken, sacrificing them to the Alliance so they could fuel the machine of death. Suddenly she's got some great master plan (which happened off-screen and wasn't forshadowed at all). Similar to Garrosh, who once cared about honor, then went into full orc supremacist mode.

you are so right for her wanting to win the war was something i could understand cause thats gonna help the forsaken atleast cause they would just be burned alive if the horde loses the war but after that it feels like everyone in the office was allowed to wright a part of the story no matter if it comes together 

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still think she will be banished to the maw with the jailer at the end of shadowlands

i dont think blizzard will kill her she is an to important character

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3 hours ago, Starym said:

God I hope not, that would be such horrifically terrible writing...

I'm curious where this idea of blizzard writing anything good is coming from? I mean preWoD I'd understand but everything from then on has been a joke.

Edited by Grumar

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Her soul is definitely split, there's no way they introduced the idea with Uther (showing you how it can affect even the most noble of souls) just to have it not matter in some big moment with another fallen character killed by the same rune blade. She's been wavering this entire expansion, already uncertain of the domination of Anduin.

You can call it bad writing, but this is literally how stuff like this goes down in fantasy/sci-fi/popcorn-munching media all the time. I'm not sure why people expect World of Warcraft, a high-fantasy, steampunk sci-fi comic-book-in-motion, to be anything less than gaudy with its storytelling. 

It's basically a western anime at this point.

 

Edited by durdyenglish

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1 hour ago, Grumar said:

I'm curious where this idea of blizzard writing anything good is coming from? I mean preWoD I'd understand but everything from then on has been a joke.

Oh come on now, Legion was legitimately solid writing, from the giant amount of artifact mini-stories to the main one (idiotic "a wild Sargeras randomly appears and ends the Burning Legion/old Warcraft storyline without any confrontation" ending aside). And even if you want to go all "lol Activision ruined Blizzaed nothing good after MoP", Cataclysm had some pretty shitty writing too, so it's not like it's ever been old days = good writing, new days = bad.

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45 minutes ago, durdyenglish said:

Her soul is definitely split, there's no way they introduced the idea with Uther (showing you how it can affect even the most noble of souls) just to have it not matter in some big moment with another fallen character killed by the same rune blade. She's been wavering this entire expansion, already uncertain of the domination of Anduin.

You can call it bad writing, but this is literally how stuff like this goes down in fantasy/sci-fi/popcorn-munching media all the time. I'm not sure why people expect World of Warcraft, a high-fantasy, steampunk sci-fi comic-book-in-motion, to be anything less than gaudy with its storytelling. 

It's basically a western anime at this point.

 

I'm sorry but 4-second mildly pained facial expressions do NOT qualify as "wavering".

Also the only thing I'm comparing WoW writing to is WoW writing. It's never been stellar or top level, but it was pretty solid for videogames (which is a hilariously low bar, I'll grant you). Also I'm guessing you haven't watched any anime for a comment like that, as there are so many animes that have top level writing and story.

In fact ANY medium has good and bad writing, pulp or no pulp, everything can be well written. The writing in BfA was atrocious by any and all standards, with no character consistency, major character decision points made outside the game in some book or comic or whatever random nonsense 90% of the player base doesn't care about/interact with, major plots brought back for one patch cycle to be ended. Shadowlands is (a lot) better so far IMO, so I'm very hopeful they manage to pull Sylvanas out of the terrible downward story spiral she's been suffering for years now, as I have nothing against the character herself, just the recent writing.

Just as a general comment, anyone saying "it's fine that writing in X is mediocre/bad/nonsensical because the genere is like that" is just straight up ignorant. There has never been nor will there ever be any genre or type of content that can't be elevated and that can't have good writers make a good story. I mean for gods sake Mad Men is basically a soap opera, except it had the best writers in the business and turned out to be one of the best TV shows ever made...

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My hope is she dies. Her "redemption" is explaining how to save Andiun and end the jailer. Even better if they give some Arthus "apology" for her. I don't think he "wanted" that to happen either. He was quite literally possessed by the power of Frostmorne.

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2 hours ago, Dreamcatcher said:

I want her to win and defeat us. Something new and different and surprising to happen.

that would be a really nice story change at the end of the xpac we simply lose for once and have to rally forces from god nows where to get our world back in the next xpac would be a nice reason why we join forces with the mummy viod guys or the crazy light faschists from the other dreanor timeline

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3 hours ago, Starym said:

I'm sorry but 4-second mildly pained facial expressions do NOT qualify as "wavering".

Oi oi oi, the 4-second mildly pained facial expressions are good. More of that. Less of whatever that stuff is that happens when they open their mouths.

3 hours ago, Starym said:

Oh come on now, Legion was legitimately solid writing

We toss the word 'writing' around very broadly and it sometimes obscures things.

I wonder whether Warcraft's 'writing' is suffering because for the first time they are actually writing. Writing plot and themes -- as opposed to characters and settings.

Sylvanas' arc seems to be a really decent attempt to form a connected plot with constant, consistent characters, questions and ideas. Yeah, I hate it too. But the bones are beyond the skeleton of anything else we've ever had. Usually we have haphazard chains of events which occur only to hand-wave the characters and settings and 4-second mildly pained facial expressions.

I think Legion had a strong, simplistic, and strong because it was simplistic, chain of events. But I think it failed just as badly as BFA when asked to deal with anything tougher than 'oh no! the legion! 😱'. I'm of the (not always agreed-upon) opinion that Illidan, Velen and the Army of the LIght on Argus were all as badly mishandled as Sylvanas. 

I think Legion worked much better as a story. I'm not sure it could actually write better. Perhaps it chose to focus on what they were best at writing.

Have they ever had a good plot? I can't think of one. I can't think of one across all their games. 

3 hours ago, Starym said:

And even if you want to go all "lol Activision ruined Blizzaed nothing good after MoP", Cataclysm had some pretty shitty writing too, so it's not like it's ever been old days = good writing, new days = bad.

And then if we look back to TBC and WotLK we don't even have 'writing'. We just have threats. Which come and are defeated. In a sequence which makes passable sense. Tempest Keep was merely a setback! 

I would be inclined to say that expansions only really have plot midway through MoP. And because MoP's story and WoD's everything were crammed we don't have a plot which functions properly until Legion. 

Edited by Halock

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3 hours ago, Halock said:

Oi oi oi, the 4-second mildly pained facial expressions are good. More of that. Less of whatever that stuff is that happens when they open their mouths.

We toss the word 'writing' around very broadly and it sometimes obscures things.

I wonder whether Warcraft's 'writing' is suffering because for the first time they are actually writing. Writing plot and themes -- as opposed to characters and settings.

Sylvanas' arc seems to be a really decent attempt to form a connected plot with constant, consistent characters, questions and ideas. Yeah, I hate it too. But the bones are beyond the skeleton of anything else we've ever had. Usually we have haphazard chains of events which occur only to hand-wave the characters and settings and 4-second mildly pained facial expressions.

I think Legion had a strong, simplistic, and strong because it was simplistic, chain of events. But I think it failed just as badly as BFA when asked to deal with anything tougher than 'oh no! the legion! 😱'. I'm of the (not always agreed-upon) opinion that Illidan, Velen and the Army of the LIght on Argus were all as badly mishandled as Sylvanas. 

I think Legion worked much better as a story. I'm not sure it could actually write better. Perhaps it chose to focus on what they were best at writing.

Have they ever had a good plot? I can't think of one. I can't think of one across all their games. 

And then if we look back to TBC and WotLK we don't even have 'writing'. We just have threats. Which come and are defeated. In a sequence which makes passable sense. Tempest Keep was merely a setback! 

I would be inclined to say that expansions only really have plot midway through MoP. And because MoP's story and WoD's everything were crammed we don't have a plot which functions properly until Legion. 

Oh I agree the more subtle stuff is better, I just don't think it constitutes "wavering" or anything of the sort. To me AT MOST it indicates that she would have been fine with everything if it was someone other than Anduin, she seems to have 0 issues with torturing/controlling/killing randos.

As for Legion... again I'm talking video game writing here. There's maybe 10 games that have EVER had legitimately good writing. I'd say Legion did a fine job DESPITE the overarching story being simplistic, I'd point to the many, MANY artifact mini-stories that were just great, not to mention Suramar, Runas... I could go on. To me the Illidan/Army of the Light thing was just underdeveloped (like everything in 7.3), not necessarily bad. And I really enjoyed the emo-scars cutscene, it genuinely got some emotion out of me (and I don't particularly like Illidan in general either). The aftermath of that was just stupid, I'll give you that (Turalyon basically saying ah well, he killed our god, fuck it let's move on, get the broom), and the Sargeras thing is unforgivable, but that had nothing to do with the writing IMO. The Army of the Light plot was sacrificed due to time constraints and Sargeras unceremoniously being escorted out of the plot was PURE contrivance because the dev team wanted to move on from the Legion VERY badly. It could have probably been written better I agree but I'm giving that a pass because of the giant amount of good writing in the rest of the expansion (also I have a sneaking suspicion that there was a shift/guard change around 7.3 and whichever intern led the BfA storyline took over then - the escorting out of Sargeras had a distinctly similar feel to how N'Zoth was comically nuked out of the lore).

And since you brought it up, yes I do mean WRITING in particular, not plot and story - Suramar was a coherent, well presented experience that had basically nothing to do with the overall plot in the end, but it was very well written. It can be any random quest or quest line too, there's talent in that team (or was, not sure who if anyone left), that's what I personally mean by writing. And it's gotten better in Shadowlands for me, despite me really not being a fan of the Jailer and REEEEALLY getting tired of Sylvanas.

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9 hours ago, Halock said:

I wonder whether Warcraft's 'writing' is suffering because for the first time they are actually writing. Writing plot and themes -- as opposed to characters and settings.

Sylvanas' arc seems to be a really decent attempt to form a connected plot with constant, consistent characters, questions and ideas. Yeah, I hate it too. But the bones are beyond the skeleton of anything else we've ever had. Usually we have haphazard chains of events which occur only to hand-wave the characters and settings and 4-second mildly pained facial expressions.

I think Legion had a strong, simplistic, and strong because it was simplistic, chain of events. But I think it failed just as badly as BFA when asked to deal with anything tougher than 'oh no! the legion! 😱'. I'm of the (not always agreed-upon) opinion that Illidan, Velen and the Army of the LIght on Argus were all as badly mishandled as Sylvanas. 

I think Warcraft's writing is suffering mainly because they often tend to add new plots on top of the old ones. Some things worked before, because they were simple, but then different writers add their own stuff that contradicts what was previously established. Something simple like Dreadlords being one of the original demon races that Sargeras encountered, they corrupted him, also made an artifact to create an undead army for the Legion. Now it turns out they were double agents (even if there is nothing in their past actions to suggest that, as they were ever only shown to be concerned about Legion's goals), weren't demons before and they originate from Shadowlands. Then there is that all that stuff with Frostmourne and helmet of domination, as it turns out they didn't make them, they stole it, there was a different creator etc. The point is, adding too much makes past things harder to explain and it becomes inconsistent. Current writers' "logic" seems to be "and then this happened!", also "you thought that was that, but actually it wasn't!". Subverting expectations for the sake of subverting expectations.

With Sylvanas, there is similar problem. As I've mentioned before, her writing was inconsistent and too much of it happened off-screen. For payoff, there has to be a good setup, but all we've seen is Sylvanas simply appearing with more power and "everything going as planned". Nothing was shown, no foreshadowing about her deal with Jailer. In Legion it was Helya and there was "Maw of Souls", not even related to actual "Maw" of... souls. 

 In Legion, individual stories were good (like Suramar), but main plot was rushed. Sargeras, other Titans and Illidan were basically put "on hold", in case they ever want to do anything else with them.

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Boo and Hiss.   They're willing to kill off Nzoth in a single tier, never get to fight Sargeras at all, and don't get me started on how they Butchered the Infinite Dragonflight and Nozdormu.

But Sylvannas?   Oh lordie we're stuck with her till the end of time in perpetuity.    She's apparently never going away.

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