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Starym

Community Reactions to Tyrande and Sylvanas Cutscene and Explanations

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The Battle of Ardenweald conclusion cinematic is one of the biggest ones so far in patch 9.1, with some important things happening and an obviously large amount of effort put into it, and now that players have had a chance to finally see it, they have some fairly strong opinions on it. Spoilers ahead for the finale of the first 9.1 questline.

So, it finally happened, the big Tyrande vs. Sylvanas confrontation that's been in the making since the start of Battle for Azeroth and the Banshee Queen's burning of Teldrassil. Let's take a look to start:

There are several things that the community has been talking about related to the cinematic, with a lot of complaints, but also some clarifications that actually make the cinematic make a lot more sense.

The Night Warrior Power Fading at the Worst Moment

This is the biggest complaint from players, however there is one detail that most (including myself) might have missed that other players (like devvra) have pointed out, which changes things and actually makes this a much more important and actually well done moment.

Tyrande.jpg

Some might have missed this detail, or actually not even had a chance to see it, as it does not even appear on most Youtube videos, even with closed captions on - but it completely changes the dynamic of what happened. The waning of the Night Warrior's power wasn't a betrayal or just the worst timing imaginable, it was a very pointed and purposeful decision by Elune to save Tyrande. Whether this was because she cared for her, as she is (presumably) Elune's most powerful priestess, because she had further plans for her, or even because she wants/needs Sylvanas to survive for some future reason (the Gollum logic) is unclear, but there was a definitive reason and it works pretty well in the cinematic. Sylvanas of course takes the opportunity to talk some more trash and taunt Tyrande, (and the Night Elves really have suffered quite enough at this point and it's getting a bit overly tragic/slightly comical), but the main complaint about the cutscene is actually not valid. You could argue it was a bad idea putting this crucial detail into a subtitle for no other reason than a bit of added drama/to have it sound cooler due to the Darnassian phrase, but it is visible in the in-game cutscene so we can't fault Blizzard there too much. Here are some of the reactions to this aspect of the cutscene:

Quote

This is supposed to be the same power that was enough to repel entire Old God invasion from some other world. And I'm sure that they didn't have assistance of a World Soul that's stronger than even Sargeras. If Tyrande was able to pummel N'Zoth back where he came from it, nothing she faced while in that state should have even been a challenge.
Also Blizzard should just follow Valve's example and make WoW anime. They clearly want to do that. Tyrande went full DBZ in that cinematic. - Retrohanska59
...
Gotta love how Sylvanas' plot armour is that Elune just felt that Tyrande had enough "Angry Time" (after literally giving her the boost to catch the Banshee) as if, yet again, it's a lore god that goes in and out of comprehending events as the writers see fit.
Oh, and then Sylvanas remembers she can turn into smoke. - Fleedjitsu
...
The power is surely awesome. But nothing works against plot armor, so yeah...
Guess we can be glad the old gods didnt have that back then. - ChrisMin
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love that people accuse FFXIV of being anime when WoW is 300% more anime than XIV is in its main story lmao - Noralon
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They should of atleast had her injure her. The way they did it makes Tyrande look pathetic again. - Sobeman
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At the very least give Sylvanas a few battle scars. Make the Jailer send something to protect his chess piece or buy her time to get away. This kind of stuff doesn't even make Sylvanas looks good, it just makes her seem like something to story needs desperately to keep alive while ONCE AGAIN Tyrande and Elune look like garbage. This was almost decent and they botched the ending - Kodie15a2
...
this was terrible. is the power of elune actually that fucking useless? or writers are completely braindead? - Zamuru
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She didn't exhaust all her power turning into a rocket. Elune abandoned her to prevent her killing Sylvanas. There is some kind of deal implied between Elune and the Jailer. - HazelCheese
...
we will found out later, that the two guys who wrote GoT (tv show, not the books) were hired for SL lore - Blekota
...

There's a lot more to read over here.

The Choking

TvS.jpg

This one's a little silly, but not completely unwarranted. A lot of players are complaining/commenting on how Tyrande is choking Sylvanas, which doesn't make any sense on many levels since, well, as pointed out in several threads, Sylvanas doesn't actually breathe. Due to the being very dead. Several times over. However, this seems to be just a slightly bad animation/context situation, as it can be pretty clearly concluded that Tyrande is actually trying to either restrain her (less likely) or to quite literally tear her head off (most likely and very understandable). The animation on that could and should have been better/clearer (and that "straining" sound sounded a lot like choking, which didn't help), but it seems fairly certain that if Tyrande continued what she was doing Sylvanas' neck would have been crushed and even the Banshee Queen would have been hard-pressed to do her smug comments when she's only a stand-alone head.

The Taking the Sigil "Master Plan"

While this one technically isn't IN the cutscene, it is part of the Battle ofr Ardenweald, and is directly linked to what happens in the cinematic. This is also where we get into the real problems of the  story. The actual important plot point in the Battle of Ardenweald is the taking of the Night Fae Sigil, which was the entire point of Sylvanas' arrival and distraction. This very detailed plan revolved around the Winter Queen putting the Sigil, the very thing she and the other Eternal Ones banished the Jailer for and started this entire mess, in the central tree... and then leaving it completely unattended because Maw forces were threatening Wild Seeds and Ardenweald in general. And so Anduin strolls in to an undefended Sigil (2/2, he's much more effective with that new armor) and takes the most important item in all of Ardenweald. Now, the Tyrande blindly rushing to attack Sylvnas part of the diversion is actually pretty great, story-wise as it uses the established canon and character motivation that's been built up since the start of BfA to justify Tyrande leaving her post. However, literally everyone else, especially the Winter Queen, had NO good enough reason to move away and leave one of the 5 Sigils, which are the focal point of who knows how many tens of thousands/millions(?) of years of strife and plotting.

Comparatively, the attack on the Archon actually made some sense, as they just saw a mortal approaching, and even if they knew who Anduin was, no one knew the Jailer had access to the mourneblades and their power (or perhaps even what mourneblades were), so the surprise attack was entirely justifiable. Meanwhile, the Winter Queen felt so bad about some Wildseeds (which she was actively pruning earlier in the story to conserve Anima) that she decided that the Sigil is totally safe unguarded in the tree. So Ursoc can die forever for 35 Anima, but these other seeds have higher priority over one of the keys to the universe.

Quote

And then Anduin just walks in and picks up the really well hidden thing haahahahahaha the writing is SO bad. - Zhaguar
...
People complain about Metzen being all schlock, but he would never actively hate parts of the playerbase and torpedo his own lore like this. - red-vanadinite
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Well see, Anduin has a super special magic sword that can track down the sigil and there is no way the winter queen could know that! Its not like one of the other leaders was jumped and fuckin stabbed by it or anything.... - streetvoyager
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“I know that the jailer is here for one thing, so I hid it in a super inconspicuous location in Ardenweald. It’s in my unguarded main base, right in the center. Clever right?” - arson-ish
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We literally had no reason to defend her if she didn’t have the sigil on her person. What a waste of time. - pentarion
I was super pissed. Like, you are the most powerful being here so you….. decided to hide it across the zone? Tf was I defending you for? - KingFirmin504
...
In the end it felt like they had to justify some way for Anduin to steal the seal without having to fight the Winter Queen herself since, otherwise, Anduin would seem way too powerful or the Winter Queen would look too weak relative to what we've already seen. It's fine Anduin got the slip on the Kyrian with surprise, but this one was just a dumb way to forward the plot. - mightyenan0
...
I am convinced that last bit with Anduin and us watching him take the sigil was a last-minute addition. Look at Jaina's face during the cinematic. Pretty funny stuff - gafx3
...
I love Ardenweald and the Winter Queen, but I also was really pissed about this. It seemed really stupid & out of character for her to mess up that badly. - EmpanadaPrincess

The Rest

There also been a few threads about the generally "Dragon Ball-like" fight scenes, how Ysera forgot the one trademark attack dragons have and decided to yell at Sylvanas instead, as well as the usual (and very correct, IMO) complaints about the Banshee once again smugly getting away without any issues. And then there's the most perfect encapsulation of the entire ongion Sylvanas issue, minus the gender pronoun:


So all in all, the commotion and negativity over the cinematic wasn't quite justified, at least not in the biggest complaints players had, but it did have some very large issues, which is such a shame since the core of the cutscene, the Tyrande - Sylvanas dynamic wasn't bad at all, it just needed a little more fine detail to get right. The actual plot point, however, will go in the BfA pile of shameful storytelling and plot contrivances.

What did you think of the cinematic, and of the story in 9.1 so far?

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I was quick to point out about Tyrande's words in Darnassian but it seems a lot of people missed out on it. Maybe having subtitles actually worked to my advantage this time.

On Anduin, though, let's remember WHY the Jailer wanted him in the first place. His barrier. The Heart of Ardenweald was extremely well protected and it shouldn't have been easily accessed -- except for Anduin's corrupted powers. Ardenweald's defenses didn't count on someone being able to breach that.

Edited by Ymirk
clarification

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3 hours ago, Ymirk said:

I was quick to point out about Tyrande's words in Darnassian but it seems a lot of people missed out on it. Maybe having subtitles actually worked to my advantage this time.

On Anduin, though, let's remember WHY the Jailer wanted him in the first place. His barrier. The Heart of Ardenweald was extremely well protected and it shouldn't have been easily accessed -- except for Anduin's corrupted powers. Ardenweald's defenses didn't count on someone being able to breach that.

It's not 'Barrier', it's the amount of power Anduin demonstrated, even in the Maw. Possibly having a corrupt Light wielder makes for a more powerful Lich King, and Anduin has an uncanny affinity to the Light.

That said, it will likely backfire. Arthas never was as powerful user of the Light, neither he seemed to snap out of his corruption at any point. Anduin already does.

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2 hours ago, Teufel said:

That said, it will likely backfire. Arthas never was as powerful user of the Light, neither he seemed to snap out of his corruption at any point. Anduin already does.

Yeah, I don't see them killing Anduin either. He will break free at some point, he's too important of a character.

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Honestly, it is already shaping up in a dissapointment where the entire 'Night Warrior' arc is being pointless.

They, apparently, wanted to show a yet another strong, independent female character to ponder to SJW culture. Problem - the "badassery" came in a form of a literal divine intervention. And, it seems, Tyrande achieves nothing with it in the end.

Well, except retaking Darkshore, but this is a tremendous pile of wasted potential to make her an actual badass. She has the oldest Azerothian military commanders at her disposal, including being one herself, huge favor of the her goddess, undying love of her people, and loyalty of another nation willing to take arms on her behalf even when Anduin refused to. And a guy who literally commands the lands itself. Instead of Tyrande taking charge and showcasing how all of that put together under a good leader can drive the Horde back from their soil, we go with her being Illidan. Oof.

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21 hours ago, Teufel said:

They, apparently, wanted to show a yet another strong, independent female character to ponder to SJW culture.

Omg shut up with this line of dialogue already, we get it, you hate women/are an incel/voted Trump.

Ffs, male characters are terribly written all the time. Why should a female get extra hate for it?

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1 hour ago, durdyenglish said:

Omg shut up with this line of dialogue already, we get it, you hate women/are an incel/voted Trump.

Ffs, male characters are terribly written all the time. Why should a female get extra hate for it?

Neither of those things, nor Tyrande is being target of my 'hate' and you would do well to both watch your tongue and remember that I can write whatever I please without your approval. Also, when one speaks for themselves it's "I" not "We", unless you're Venom.  Just how many times you can screw up in two sentences?

And if you're blind enough not to notice the pattern that doesn't make me wrong to point it out.

Edited by Teufel

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6 hours ago, Teufel said:

Neither of those things, nor Tyrande is being target of my 'hate' and you would do well to both watch your tongue and remember that I can write whatever I please without your approval. Also, when one speaks for themselves it's "I" not "We", unless you're Venom.  Just how many times you can screw up in two sentences?

And if you're blind enough not to notice the pattern that doesn't make me wrong to point it out.

Wow good thing you focused on my grammar instead of my point. 

Powerful women exist. Flawed women exist. Telling the story of one/both is not forced inclusion. It's not some artificial concept injected into our reality, it's a recognition that it's actually the reality that we usually filter out in these media narratives and portrayals.

Writing it off as some liberal agenda is rudely dismissive.

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Just now, durdyenglish said:

Wow good thing you focused on my grammar instead of my point. 

Powerful women exist. Flawed women exist. Telling the story of one/both is not forced inclusion. It's not some artificial concept injected into our reality, it's a recognition that it's actually the reality that we usually filter out in these media narratives and portrayals.

Writing it off as some liberal agenda is rudely dismissive.

Much as I despise "no u" comments, yours is an example that is literally begging for it. That first line is the pefrect description of your problem, for whatever reason you decided to address me at all. Also, since you seem to be oblivious still, "we" is used when speaking on behalf of a group of people, and you're speaking for no one but yourself. "Grammar", lol.

If you have bothered an ounce to read the whole thing, instead of jumping the "SJW NOTICED AN INJUSTICE, MUST ENGAGE!!!!!!" wagon in 2 sentences, you would have probably noticed a long paragraph that literally is "strong imdependent woman arc." Done. Right. Instead of crappy excuse we got, where they had to shove Malf, lowkey strongest mortal being on Azeroth, aside, just to make way for an unsatisfying arc in that very sense people sneer at. Literally.

Moreover, for whatever reason you decided to act high and mighty like you've been tailing me for ages, and all I do is bash women arcs. And if you actually did, you would also notice praise I do hand out when something is done right - latest I can recall was praising Kerrigan, oh god, a female, and handling her "need for redemption" favorably compared to Sylvanas'. Among plenty of other 'strong independent women' characters I like for them being done right, from something as renown as Mulan to something as niche as DA:I's Vivienne. "Women hater", right?

Now that we cleared that up, how about you take your political crap, insults, and self-embarassment you've just commited, and crawl towards some nice little forum where you can tell them all about 'rudeness', while I will talk about writing in a game on a forum dedicated to that game. Awesome, thanks.

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1 hour ago, Teufel said:

Much as I despise "no u" comments, yours is an example that is literally begging for it. That first line is the pefrect description of your problem, for whatever reason you decided to address me at all. Also, since you seem to be oblivious still, "we" is used when speaking on behalf of a group of people, and you're speaking for no one but yourself. "Grammar", lol.

If you have bothered an ounce to read the whole thing, instead of jumping the "SJW NOTICED AN INJUSTICE, MUST ENGAGE!!!!!!" wagon in 2 sentences, you would have probably noticed a long paragraph that literally is "strong imdependent woman arc." Done. Right. Instead of crappy excuse we got, where they had to shove Malf, lowkey strongest mortal being on Azeroth, aside, just to make way for an unsatisfying arc in that very sense people sneer at. Literally.

Moreover, for whatever reason you decided to act high and mighty like you've been tailing me for ages, and all I do is bash women arcs. And if you actually did, you would also notice praise I do hand out when something is done right - latest I can recall was praising Kerrigan, oh god, a female, and handling her "need for redemption" favorably compared to Sylvanas'. Among plenty of other 'strong independent women' characters I like for them being done right, from something as renown as Mulan to something as niche as DA:I's Vivienne. "Women hater", right?

Now that we cleared that up, how about you take your political crap, insults, and self-embarassment you've just commited, and crawl towards some nice little forum where you can tell them all about 'rudeness', while I will talk about writing in a game on a forum dedicated to that game. Awesome, thanks.

I'm not embarrassed bro, you mad?

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Just when you think the writing in WoW couldn't get any worse, we get this patch and this.  Holy geez  this is so bad.

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