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Starym

Intense Community Reactions to Sylvanas Defeat Cutscene

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Here's the big one. There have been dozens upon dozens of threads, thousands of comments, editorials, videos and more discussing both the Sanctum of Domination finale cutscene as well as its fallout in the WoW community, so we wanted to give it all a little time to settle. Well, to be honest it hasn't really settled quite yet, but it's pretty undeniable that the cinematic and story development it brings with it has been VERY controversial to say the least, and the reaction has been quite negative to put it mildly.

We'll actually start with the wider media reaction and the video itself, as there have been several editorials written by the larger gaming sites about the cutscene and accompanying events. First off, the video itself has gotten a pretty bad reception, with the like to dislike ratio currently being 1:3:

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Another reason we posted an actual image is the "Unlisted" part, as many players have been accusing Blizzard of de-listing the video due to the bad ratio and negative comments, but that is absolutely not the case, as it was unlisted from the start. Let's also get a refresher on the cinematic itself before diving in to the commentary:

Then we're on to the media reception, and while Polygon has a more jokey and short article titled "World of Warcraft’s newest plot twist is straight out of a soap opera", PCGamer's is a much more detailed  (and not too positive) affair. We'll just take out a few highlights as there's a lot to get through, but definitely read the full article:

"World of Warcraft's latest cinematic is a narrative disaster and players hate it"

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After all, back in Warcraft 3 the Lich King killed and enslaved Sylvanas and turned her into the undead Banshee she is now. Fun fact about that, by the way, it turns out that The Jailer is the one who created the artifacts that corrupted the Lich King in the first place—the same artifacts he then used to kill Sylvanas. She also knows this and doesn't seem troubled by it, for some inexplicable reason.

At the same time, it feels a little weird that all of a sudden she's starting to develop a conscience. Like, you committed genocide and started a continent-spanning war that nearly killed the planet but making pretty-boy Anduin do your chores is what's giving you second thoughts? You can start to see why players were growing anxious over where the story was heading. Was Blizzard going to try and redeem Sylvanas and have her switch sides at a crucial moment? Of course they were.
...
This is where some of Blizzard's worst writing all comes together in a rapid-fire combo. The Jailer, just short of total victory, can't resist gloating and rambling about how he's going to remake all of reality to serve him. Sylvanas looks at Anduin and has her predictable change of heart—but of course after the Jailer has already turned into an all-powerful god. She evidently realizes that maybe genocide and helping Satan weren't such a hot idea, so she knocks a flimsy arrow and shoots it at the Jailer's head and says "I will never serve."

Except that's exactly what she's been doing. This entire time. Is she really that stupid?
...
Unless you've been closely following WoW's story over the past few expansions, it's hard to fully express just how disappointing this whole 'twist' is. It makes me feel like none of these characters are actual reasoning people, but just empty vessels for dispensing cool one-liners while the plot marches inexplicably forward toward the next macguffin. And heaven forbid we ever get any answers or closure to the dozens of plotlines that are left dangling with each new cutscene. 

- Steven Messner, PCGamer

And now the main course, the actual community reactions from many, MANY reddit threads. Usually we pick out particularly good or meaningful comments, but there is just so much to cover (and many initial thread posts are so large) that we'll instead post the most interesting thread and links to them, as well as some of the very highly upvoted comments. We'll start with the smaller group, the players either defending the cinematic/story or just trying to clarify and give context to some issues others have with it that may not be true.

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I'm actually excited to still have sylvannas and see her soul whole again in the upcoming futureMuffled-Mumbles
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Is this the safe haven where I can say that I don’t mind the way they’re taking her without getting banished to the shadow realm? I just feel like for everyone complaining that a redemption arc or something similar would be “lazy writing” wouldn’t just killing her and being like “ok she’s dead now” be way lazier? They’ve set up so much for her that just yeeting her would be a waste of time. With the return of her soul they could do some REALLY interesting stuff with her. - jt4797
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What Many People Are Getting Wrong About Sylvanas - Nordun 
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There isn't anything inherently wrong with Sylvanas' story (so far)Vegetable_Compote_57
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You can explain it all you want and maybe it objectively makes sense, but if people don't feel a story they don't feel it. And that's exactly what a good story does without needing any further explanation. - hrrrqq

There were also many comments related to the presumed Sylvanas redemption arc (that may or may not happen):

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Just a reminder regarding Sylvanas and redemption (spoilers)  - Mofojokers
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The faction leaders will be forced to forgive Sylvanas because of Anduin. - Sharizord
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Can we please just move on from Sylvanas I am so tired - JarJarNudes
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I've never felt this way about any story before. Could be because it's been dragged out for like 6 years now. Just move the fuck on already.. - DismalMatch
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It's actually because of Uther. uther will be able to speak to how different you are when your soul is split. Anduin will most likely be the catalyst for forgiving Arthas - vanilla_disco
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If Sylvanas says she will never serve - wouldn't that make a redemption arc for her impossible?
The story writes itself. Someone will want to kill or punish Sylvanas for what she's done.
Someone will say she needs to be punished. Someone responds she was being manipulated. Someone responds some form of doesn't matter. Someone will say some variant of "will you do the same to Anduin". Slow zoomout to sad music while everyone stands around not knowing what to respond and then it's redemption arc time. - Hot_Local_Single
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The only possible "unexpected" ending I can think of at this point is something she tried to do in the past.  - Tim4Wafflez
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Now Tyrande is gonna be framed as a bad guy for not forgiving Sylvanas.I'd put an entire year's wage on it, seeing as how predictable Blizzard writers are. - Baalrun-64

And then there's  the negative comments, which outnumber the positive/mixed ones by an extremely large margin, even in the original cinematic thread alone.

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The huge disparity in quality between the main story of WoW and the zone stories has grown wider than ever before. - Internal-Dot-290
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Of all times Sylvanas realizes allying with The Jailer was not the best choice, she chooses when he’s powered up to turn on him - Proudnoob4393
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No schemes, no backstabbing, no plan B if jailor turned the way she didn't want him
That was so emotional and dumb - amarillo2019
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She was so used to the script just saying it was part of her master plan that she forgot to actually have one. - needconfirmation
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The constant focus on Sylvanas and terrible quality of writing are making the game less fun to play.rabbitparrot
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I’ve recently gotten into WoW after coming from other games. While I love the gameplay, the world building, the cheeky side quests… I can’t get over how bad the main story is. It might just be the worst story I’ve ever seen in a videogame. - OfLightandMadness
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as some weirdo who liked the original starcraft for the story of the campaigns, welcome to my sad, miserable, strange little world, new people. because it's not merely similar, it's literally the exact same thing - helanpagle
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The main cinematic thread - audioshaman
(All of the below comments have hundreds, if not a thousand+ upvotes)
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So the Jailer created Lich Kings, but his ultimate form is... Lichier King. Huh - Gulfos
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N’ZOTH DIED FOR THIS BULLSHIT?! - cirocobama93
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God, I'm hoping at the end of this expansion it's revealed that this was all a dream that N'Zoth put on us back when we faced him in Ny'alotha, and in reality none of it actually happened and he has used all this time to take over and release the other Old Gods and completely fucked up our world. - defensive_username
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So to run it down:
The jailer has Anduin, Thrall, Bolvar and Jaina completely brainwashed and broken
Sylvanas suddenly gives a fuck because she realizes, after all this time, that the guy who is responsible for the Lich King, may have been the one that killed and enslaved her (nice work chief)
Sylvanas shoots an arrow at Chinese knock-off Thanos despite him having all 6 infinity sigils
He just throws her fucking soul at her or some shit and waddles off with Anduin, not bothering to fucking merk the champions who fucked his entire tower up.
Leaves all of them alive to get revenge on him later
Absolutely fantastic Blizzard, bravo. - LordWaffleSocks
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This cinematic seriously makes Sylvanas look like the dumbest idiot in the entire Warcraft universe. Like. What exactly was she expecting to happen? Did she believe that the Jailer was secretly a totally swell guy and that actually letting him free wouldn't result in him trying to tyrannically enslave the universe the second he did? Did she not, for one second, stop to question why this guy was locked up in turbohell in the first place?

After all these multiple expansions worth of buildup to Sylvanas and her motivations. We find out that actually she wreaked genocidal havoc on Azeroth because she's a massive drooling room temperature IQ idiot who didn't see any possible negative drawback to letting WoW Satan gain ULTIMATE POWER. And pulls a shocked pikachu face the second she finds out that he's actually a bit of a dick all along? - lolattb
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Cataclysm: You're acting like the Lich King!
Siege of Orgrimmar: You're acting like the Lich King!
BfA: You're acting like the Lich King!
Shadowlands: The guy you've been working for all this time is acting like the Lich King!
Sylvanas 30 seconds too late for it to matter: Oh my god, the guy I've been working for all this time has been acting like the Lich King! I must stop him!
Honestly, how are we supposed to treat her like some kind of brilliant, cunning manipulator when they have her miss this blatantly-obvious flaw in her principles for years and only have her figure it out because the bad guy said something that reminded her of the other bad guy she had a grudge against? - Ghost0Who0Walks
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The Jailer: I have a master plan, but I need you to perform these duties and services for me, sorry if that seems a silly way to put it, I forgot the specific word for what I was going to say.
Sylvanas: yeah okay
Later
The Jailer: Hey Sylvanas, I remembered the word, it's 'serve'.
Sylvanas: WHAT THE FUCK - kerriazes
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Is kerrigan the only story arc they know? - Asthaloth
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Ah, the classic "I have all the heroes at my feet ready to be slain, but I'll just leave and let them kill me later" - grux9
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I’m not mad at what they’re doing with Sylvanas. I’m mad at how predictable it was.Orcfury
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So even blizzard didn't know what plans sylvanas had so they decided to scrap that and have her betray jailer in the last second. Peak writing blizz, can't wait for sylvanas to become the hero that helped defeat jailer, cuz we all know that's what you're doing.  - Kordben
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What did she think was going to happen? - MasterLoc

 

And finally, while this isn't a meme post, this one seemed too fitting of an ending not to use:

"Let her stand trial in Pandaria"

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Source: Jokiczek.

At this point, asking for opinions about the cinematic/story direction is a dangerous proposition, as all sides are fairly angry at each other and it's pretty difficult to have a normal discussion on it... but let's try anyway? I'd love to hear comments on some of the above, or even just on the story in general and talk about it a little.

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It was pretty obvious from the start that Activision wouldn't have the balls to kill one of their major cashcows. And yes - i am talking about Simps of the Banshee Queen not WoW in general.

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Only primus knew who created Shadowmourn, I dont know how the community is assuming Sylvanas also knows what we saw in Runecarver's memory

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It's a good thing blizzard doesn't listen to the vocal minority and just do whatever they want instead. And yes 14k dislikes on a video for a game that has over at least 1 million players is a vocal minority.

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2 hours ago, Lourdes said:

It's a good thing blizzard doesn't listen to the vocal minority and just do whatever they want instead. And yes 14k dislikes on a video for a game that has over at least 1 million players is a vocal minority.

You do realize that people also comment on forums, in game and in real life about the sheer stupidity that is happening right now?
Keep feeding Bobby Kotick more money little simp. You're doing great.

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There has been tons of bad writing in the wow lore for years now. This isn't even in the top 10. I don't love it, but it I don't hate it either. You have to admit, while definitely very tropey and predictable, it does raise some valid questions about responsibility and what should be done now. 

I just think BFA did too much damage. One thing both sides pretty much agreed on then was that Blizz had written themselves into a corner and wouldn't be able to get out. This is them basically trying to chew threw the wall. Gotta see what happens I guess, but either way a lot of people will be unhappy, and that is all their doing.

 

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Still waiting for her to admit she's just terrified of dying and spending eternity in the Maw, hence that is why she is breaking the machine of death and takes thousands of lives just to save her own buttocks. Not the "FWEEDUM" crap you're expected to happily cheer for the moment that word pops up (unironically, though, it works for a lot of people across many fandoms).

You know you screwed up when people find Garrosh better executed (pun not intended) than a somewhat-major character and enjoy him appearing more. Also looking at the last 'meme' there after reading War Crimes, at least Garrosh deserved a trial (him ending up in Revendreth and not Maw further reinforces that). Sylvanas hardly does.

Other than that, the cinematic raised a question or two I am  interested in, like Jailer neededing mortal vessels for weilding Mourneblades. Or the Arbiter dissapating with her sigil, implying she never was an Eternal One, but a construct placed there and imbued with stolen power of Zovaal's to keep the First Ones' design of the Shadowlands running. Or if there was a momentary break in his control, which made Anduin drop the compass willingly. 

Zovaal turning out to be a mustache-twirling cliche is dissapointing, of course.

Honestly, anything is preferable to Sylvanas at this point, I'm even up for a storyline of Stewards secretly plotting to overthrow Kyrians with Popo as the final boss, secretly poisoning Kyrian in Korthia. And Sika leading a little insurgence for us to help.

Edited by Teufel
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44 minutes ago, Teufel said:

You know you screwed up when people find Garrosh better executed (pun not intended) than a somewhat-major character and enjoy him appearing more.

Yeah that's actually hilarious. Garrosh himself admitted that he did many horrible things for the better of the True Horde and he would gladly do all of it again without a second thought. While he's still a monster and dictator all of this makes sense considering his story since Burning Crusade.
Sylvanas on the other hand is trying to be good, evil, and everything in between at the same time while contradicting herself. ALOT.
She is against making someone serve against their will (PTSD from Arthas debacle near Silvermoon) but at the same time it's perfectly fine for her to twist dead Night Elves into her Dark Rangers or to brainwash Derek Proudmoore so he can later murder his own mother and sister. Pretty much everything that happened with Sylvanas since Legion and until now was more than questionable.

Edited by Steveson
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5 hours ago, Elevendk said:

Only primus knew who created Shadowmourn, I dont know how the community is assuming Sylvanas also knows what we saw in Runecarver's memory

Frostmourne = Arthas

Kingsmourne = Anduin

Shadowmourne = Legendary 2H axe from WotLK for War/Pal/DK

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32 minutes ago, Steveson said:

Yeah that's actually hilarious. Garrosh himself admitted that he did many horrible things for the better of the True Horde and he would gladly do all of it again without a second thought. While he's still a monster and dictator all of this makes sense considering his story since Burning Crusade.
Sylvanas on the other hand is trying to be good, evil, and everything in between at the same time while contradicting herself. ALOT.
She is against making someone serve against their will (PTSD from Arthas debacle near Silvermoon) but at the same time it's perfectly fine for her to twist dead Night Elves into her Dark Rangers or to brainwash Derek Proudmoore so he can later murder his own mother and sister. Pretty much everything that happened with Sylvanas since Legion and until now was more than questionable.

The reason Sylvanas fails so hard is that they are trying to make a character with complex motivations and getting it wrong. 'Uncomplicated' characters can work as long as they are consistent, and Garrosh was such a villain. The reason people disliked the game with him in it was that he was made into the Horde leader and the devs insisted so long that he wasn't a villain and it ruined the experience for players. Gul'dan is a similar uncomplicated villain, with a backstory cinematic that was nicely done and explained why he was evil, and I don't recall that people found him particularly irritating even though he kept turning up doing the same thing. Anduin is an uncomplicated 'good' character who makes sense despite not being terribly interesting, and should probably take more of a backseat role in future and be more the sort of king who sires heirs and makes speeches. Illidan was the only 'complicated' character they successfully pulled off, and they seem to be trying to reproduce that without understanding how it worked.

A lot of what makes it annoying is that the idea of Sylvanas's unconscionable conduct being caused by Frostmourne sundering her soul is not a bad one and it could have been done very well if the expansion after the Lich King had contained the buildup of her committing worse and worse atrocities (without the devs insisting that all would be made clear and that the Horde players have to help her do it) and the next expansion had been this one. It would also have worked better if it had been explored in more depth. If Sylvanas considered her whole self prior to her death a 'fool' as was said in the cinematic when she burns Teldrassil, then if she knew of the existence of the other part of her, she would consider it a weakness and want to destroy it and do everything in her power to prevent herself from being reformed. It could have been a very cool story, but the hamfisted execution means it isn't.

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1 hour ago, Teufel said:

Still waiting for her to admit she's just terrified of dying and spending eternity in the Maw, hence that is why she is breaking the machine of death and takes thousands of lives just to save her own buttocks.

Zovaal turning out to be a mustache-twirling cliche is dissapointing, of course.

Honestly, anything is preferable to Sylvanas at this point, I'm even up for a storyline of Stewards secretly plotting to overthrow Kyrians with Popo as the final boss, secretly poisoning Kyrian in Korthia. And Sika leading a little insurgence for us to help.

With current lore, I'm not sure why she's terrified of dying. As we've learned, souls can die too, and then they are just gone forever, turning to anima dust. Just like Garrosh did. So it's not like she would be suffering eternal damnation or something, I guess souls can commit suicide too? So being a soul is like getting another chance to live, especially if some can even leave SL.

With Zovaal, they could have done something different with him. There was no reason to insert him into majority of important events, just make his schemes something else, but the way they put him into those events creates many inconsistencies. He was basically involved with Burning Legion and Scourge from behind the scenes, but what was his grand plan if Legion succeeded? Sounds like a poor plan, if he had no other solution and was counting on Legion simply being defeated.

"Popo needs help! Popo poison them good!"

 

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1 hour ago, snap said:

'Uncomplicated' characters can work as long as they are consistent, and Garrosh was such a villain. The reason people disliked the game with him in it was that he was made into the Horde leader and the devs insisted so long that he wasn't a villain and it ruined the experience for players.

Gul'dan is a similar uncomplicated villain, with a backstory cinematic that was nicely done and explained why he was evil, and I don't recall that people found him particularly irritating even though he kept turning up doing the same thing. 

Have to disagree here on Garrosh's account.

'Uncomplicated', characters are driven by simpler out-in-the open motivations and general desire to do 'villiany' things. Garrosh, as implied by game and book alike, is there to look out for the good of his people "...and everyone who's got courage to stand with us!".

Normally, that would make a hero, rather than a villian, until you add a number of factors, external and internal alike, that forged Garrosh into who he is, and these are what separate him from the likes of Gul'dan who are "evil for the sake of being evil", and would turn out exactly the same way regardless of circumstance (that elements-reaching scene is pretty telling as is.) 

Garrosh is just an example of potential taken in the wrong direction, but the fact he had plenty of potential to be something else entirely is what matters. Also, good villians are, after all, the ones who, from their perspective, are doing the right thing.

 

Edited by Teufel

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36 minutes ago, Arcling said:

With current lore, I'm not sure why she's terrified of dying. As we've learned, souls can die too, and then they are just gone forever, turning to anima dust. Just like Garrosh did. So it's not like she would be suffering eternal damnation or something, I guess souls can commit suicide too? So being a soul is like getting another chance to live, especially if some can even leave SL.

With Zovaal, they could have done something different with him. There was no reason to insert him into majority of important events, just make his schemes something else, but the way they put him into those events creates many inconsistencies. He was basically involved with Burning Legion and Scourge from behind the scenes, but what was his grand plan if Legion succeeded? Sounds like a poor plan, if he had no other solution and was counting on Legion simply being defeated.

"Popo needs help! Popo poison them good!"

 

I think Garrosh did not "suicide" per se, but this is the outcome the Accuser has prevented with Kael'thas during the Venthyr campaign, I'm not sure if a soul can unravel willingly, or that Sylvanas would do that after all the lengths she went to keep her existence. But, it is a fair point to consider.

And yes, masterminds piling up on top of one another, all while relying on the one below to succeed is becoming vexing. Though, I'm already seeing a 10.0 Voidlord who relied on First Ones, Eternal Ones and Sargeras out of the way and Azeroth's guard lowered to execute their master plan.

As for Zovaal himself, while I would rather have them explore the topic Sylvanas raised rather than "ALL BOW DOWN TO ME", there's one line from another game with similar villian (though the line does not refer to the villian in question, it suits him perfectly) that makes me less irratated with mustache-twirling the Jailer just did.

Adding a couple words to make the context clearer, that line would be "Others grabbed that power, tried and failed to bring change. Why shouldn't I take a turn?"

Edited by Teufel

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1 hour ago, Teufel said:

I think Garrosh did not "suicide" per se, but this is the outcome the Accuser has prevented with Kael'thas during the Venthyr campaign, I'm not sure if a soul can unravel willingly, or that Sylvanas would do that after all the lengths she went to keep her existence. But, it is a fair point to consider.

And yes, masterminds piling up on top of one another, all while relying on the one below to succeed is becoming vexing. Though, I'm already seeing a 10.0 Voidlord who relied on First Ones, Eternal Ones and Sargeras out of the way and Azeroth's guard lowered to execute their master plan.

Good point about souls, perhaps they can be imprisoned in such a way that they can't be destroyed willingly, only by some external force perhaps?

About masterminds piling up on top of one another, it's also how Old Gods were demoted to be just a servants of the Void Lords, while originally they were on their own. With Void Lords they can do pretty much everything, since we don't know how many of them currently are. They could be allies, rivals or enemies to each other, although their goal doesn't seem to be that interesting, just corrupt or consume everyone in the universe. So quite similar to Zovaal, who wants to rule it all.

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Undead player since vanilla. This is not the best writing but it makes more senseish now, sylvanas' story was obviously altered this was not her story she was always darkish but she wasnt evil. sylvanas led the scourge that broke free from the lich king we looked up to her, cause she was fighting for us to be recognized as people not mindless Zombies.... They should of just not touched sylvanas' story if they didnt know it, and everyone needs to go look up her original stuff from warcraft to the beginning undead zones....

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7 hours ago, Devylknyght said:

There has been tons of bad writing in the wow lore for years now. This isn't even in the top 10. I don't love it, but it I don't hate it either. You have to admit, while definitely very tropey and predictable, it does raise some valid questions about responsibility and what should be done now. 

I just think BFA did too much damage. One thing both sides pretty much agreed on then was that Blizz had written themselves into a corner and wouldn't be able to get out. This is them basically trying to chew threw the wall. Gotta see what happens I guess, but either way a lot of people will be unhappy, and that is all their doing.

 

While I disagree that this isn't top 10 (it's like top 3 for me), you have a good point on the BfA thing... boy that one did a looot of damage. And while I absolutely agree with you this HAD potential, it was just bungled so badly. The whole Sylvanas will pay for her crimes via her soul being returned is pretty cool (and I love the Jailer doing that), it just was presented so poorly I have 0 faith they'll do anything good with it because the writers are SO bad.

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4 hours ago, snap said:

The reason Sylvanas fails so hard is that they are trying to make a character with complex motivations and getting it wrong. 'Uncomplicated' characters can work as long as they are consistent, and Garrosh was such a villain. The reason people disliked the game with him in it was that he was made into the Horde leader and the devs insisted so long that he wasn't a villain and it ruined the experience for players. Gul'dan is a similar uncomplicated villain, with a backstory cinematic that was nicely done and explained why he was evil, and I don't recall that people found him particularly irritating even though he kept turning up doing the same thing. Anduin is an uncomplicated 'good' character who makes sense despite not being terribly interesting, and should probably take more of a backseat role in future and be more the sort of king who sires heirs and makes speeches. Illidan was the only 'complicated' character they successfully pulled off, and they seem to be trying to reproduce that without understanding how it worked.

A lot of what makes it annoying is that the idea of Sylvanas's unconscionable conduct being caused by Frostmourne sundering her soul is not a bad one and it could have been done very well if the expansion after the Lich King had contained the buildup of her committing worse and worse atrocities (without the devs insisting that all would be made clear and that the Horde players have to help her do it) and the next expansion had been this one. It would also have worked better if it had been explored in more depth. If Sylvanas considered her whole self prior to her death a 'fool' as was said in the cinematic when she burns Teldrassil, then if she knew of the existence of the other part of her, she would consider it a weakness and want to destroy it and do everything in her power to prevent herself from being reformed. It could have been a very cool story, but the hamfisted execution means it isn't.

I have to agree with you on a lot of points here. It's as if Blizzard see a good idea and concept, decide to implement in in a very haphazzard way and about 10 years too late, but then say fuck it and do it anyway by just saying "this is what's been happening ALL ALONG, trust us". There are plenty of interesting concepts here, but they are ALL squandered by bad execution, poor writing and absolutely no planning whatsoever. The soul split thing is the most explicit of these, as they just decided randomly that, yea, her soul has been split. Since the start. Oh we never mentioned it in the slightest and didn't elaborate AND the majority of the audience doesn't have ANY idea wtf that blue thing was? Never mind, we managed to get our story out!!111 Ok, I'm getting worked up.

And I genuinely can't believe it's gotten to a state when the best part of a new raid and story continuation is GARROSH, who I've hated for a long LONG time, and yet his cinematic good (if low quality and rushed) and genuinely gave his character some real closure. It's as if character consistency is 10321093x more important than whatever stupid plot twist/galactic enemy the story wants to set up next... But no, everyone and everything is just there to serve the stupid plot and to get us to the next raid. Ah well, at least the bosses are solid to good.

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4 hours ago, Starym said:

While I disagree that this isn't top 10 (it's like top 3 for me), you have a good point on the BfA thing... boy that one did a looot of damage. And while I absolutely agree with you this HAD potential, it was just bungled so badly. The whole Sylvanas will pay for her crimes via her soul being returned is pretty cool (and I love the Jailer doing that), it just was presented so poorly I have 0 faith they'll do anything good with it because the writers are SO bad.

They do have the Movie Quality Sylvanas model already rendered and rigged up for all sorts of animations from what, 3 expansion announcement cinematics now? I would be shocked if they didn't slap some blue eyes on it and roll it out for 1 more circle around the wagons for something actually epic.

As for what that may be..... The one thing that could MAYBE bring the split community back together.... 

 

Sylvanas realizes only one person can save Anduin and Azeroth....: Arthas.

picture this:

Vareesa and/or Alleria see that Sylvanas is whole now and wasn't herself before and help her escape Tyrande/the rest of the people holding her. Sylvanas tracks down and finds a way to save and free Arthas' soul and forgives him. She Lets go of her hatred and thirst for revenge, essentially killing the bad Sylvanas inside her that we all know and love ;). Maybe even sacrificing herself to do so.

This act inspires Tyrande and the others to let go of her/their hatred and thirst for vengeance as well (to an extent). Arthas gets empowered by the typical contrived in-game McGuffins that we never heard of before the patch and defeats the jailer and takes his place in the maw and/or Oribos.

Sylvanas goes away for awhile, either after sacrificing herself or maybe she just disappears on a quest of her own to find her brothers soul in a different Shadowlands realm than the ones we have seen so far. ( I personally would not like this, but it seems like everyone else really would lol ). 

Edited by Devylknyght
typo

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3 hours ago, Devylknyght said:

They do have the Movie Quality Sylvanas model already rendered and rigged up for all sorts of animations from what, 3 expansion announcement cinematics now? I would be shocked if they didn't slap some blue eyes on it and roll it out for 1 more circle around the wagons for something actually epic.

As for what that may be..... The one thing that could MAYBE bring the split community back together.... 

 

Sylvanas realizes only one person can save Anduin and Azeroth....: Arthas.

picture this:

Vareesa and/or Alleria see that Sylvanas is whole now and wasn't herself before and help her escape Tyrande/the rest of the people holding her. Sylvanas tracks down and finds a way to save and free Arthas' soul and forgives him. She Lets go of her hatred and thirst for revenge, essentially killing the bad Sylvanas inside her that we all know and love ;). Maybe even sacrificing herself to do so.

This act inspires Tyrande and the others to let go of her/their hatred and thirst for vengeance as well (to an extent). Arthas gets empowered by the typical contrived in-game McGuffins that we never heard of before the patch and defeats the jailer and takes his place in the maw and/or Oribos.

Sylvanas goes away for awhile, either after sacrificing herself or maybe she just disappears on a quest of her own to find her brothers soul in a different Shadowlands realm than the ones we have seen so far. ( I personally would not like this, but it seems like everyone else really would lol ). 

I feel like people are reeeeeeeally not willing to risk Arthas with these writers. At all. I sure as hell am not. Also Arthas is TOTALLY in Anduin's sword.

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1 hour ago, Starym said:

I feel like people are reeeeeeeally not willing to risk Arthas with these writers. At all. I sure as hell am not. Also Arthas is TOTALLY in Anduin's sword.

Good point. It certainly seems that the Jailer pulled someone's soul out of his void storage to have it pounded into Kingsmourne. Arthas' soul makes as much sense as anyone's.

Edited by Danthalas

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1 hour ago, Danthalas said:

Good point. It certainly seems that the Jailer pulled someone's soul out of his void storage to have it pounded into Kingsmourne. Arthas' soul makes as much sense as anyone's.

There's nothing right-sounding about "pounded into Kingsmourne". Nothing at all.

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21 hours ago, Steveson said:

You do realize that people also comment on forums, in game and in real life about the sheer stupidity that is happening right now?
Keep feeding Bobby Kotick more money little simp. You're doing great.

So by liking the story i'm a simp even though i'm not even subbed to the game because i think the game is not fun at the moment. I can at least appreciate the things that are still entertaining.

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8 hours ago, Starym said:

There's nothing right-sounding about "pounded into Kingsmourne". Nothing at all.

Lol. No, it's not "right-sounding", true. But, that's basically what happened in the video!

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Another reason the story is so poor is that on top of the problems with how the Sylvanas's motivation and how it's presented, is that none of the other characters are getting any proper development. The Jailer so far is presented as someone who is supposed to be an immortal creature, yet he looks like a death metal grandad and his motivation is a petty idea of making everyone 'serve' him for no sensible reason. Baine is only there so the Jailer can throw him like a toy, which just makes the Jailer look more stupid. Thrall has a very short storyline about his mother and Bolvar's only contribution has been to stupidly tell the player to take the McGuffin into the villain's realm so it can be stolen there. Jaina's story in BfA was tied up when she was reunited with her brother. Jaina was one of the better parts of that expansion and should have been left there, and she's not doing anything here.

Which leaves Anduin and Tyrande, and more effort should have been put into explaining and developing the Night Warrior stuff. Anduin has featured a lot in the previous expansions but has had very little in the way of development. He's an orphan who lost his father recently and his mother when he was young, and he's supposed to be a young man and he's not been shown to do young person things, and is diplomatic to an extent that doesn't quite match his backstory and the level of maturity and PTSD he would be expected to have. There could have been a chance to develop him more than just being a straightforward good guy. Particularly as players reacted negatively to Thrall turning up with a partner out of the blue, they could have added a new girl/guy to be a romantic interest for Anduin and have the player help this character in a struggle to rescue him from his puppetification.

I admit I've ended up ranting about how bad this story is. It's like a trainwreck I can't stop looking at.

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