Hybrys

Ask a Beta Tester: Shamans

49 posts in this topic

Hey there Shamans!

 

I've just received by invite to the Alpha/Beta for WoD, and I'll be starting what little testing I can soon.

 

This thread will be for you to ask any questions you may have about the upcoming expansion.  You can ask anything, from all three specs, from the simplest things (How does the new Echo of the Elements feel?) to the most complex things (What are the specific scaling factors for the Storm Elemental Totem and it's interaction with PE?)

 

Current limitations:

 

As far as we know, the currently Beta is unlimited in level.

Level 100 test characters are now available

Most changes in the latest Alpha Notes are implemented, including the item squish.

Mana regen aspects now implemented, and both playstyles flow properly.

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Can you just go beat up a target dummy for awhile and post logs (and maybe a video?) of that?  For both elemental and enhancement, I'd like to just watch how the rotation plays.  From there I can formulate better questions, I think.

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Can you just go beat up a target dummy for awhile and post logs (and maybe a video?) of that?  For both elemental and enhancement, I'd like to just watch how the rotation plays.  From there I can formulate better questions, I think.

Sure, I'll try to hop on stream once I get home from work.

 

The Frost Shock change (putting it into the rotation) will be a really weird one to play with.  Echo of the Elements is amazing, though.

 

Enh also doesn't flow right now, as they didn't get time to add in that regen we were promised in exchange for the loss of the mana proc.

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Really?  It looked like Frost Shock was just supposed to replace Earth Shock.  Mostly I want to see how the psycho-short SS CD and lava lash CD resets are going to play out.  Other than the assumption that we're going to be GCD capped so hard by the end of the expac.

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Really?  It looked like Frost Shock was just supposed to replace Earth Shock.  Mostly I want to see how the psycho-short SS CD and lava lash CD resets are going to play out.  Other than the assumption that we're going to be GCD capped so hard by the end of the expac.

The problem right now is that Frost Shock is tuned so low that you want to do Flame Shock --> Frost Shock --> UE Flame Shock, weaving them 1:1, because the initial damage of a Unleash Flame Flame Shock is higher than Frost Shock's total.  We used to prefer Earth Shock unless we needed to refresh because it had that substantially higher crit chance from Stormstrike, but that's not around anymore.

 

So it needs either a bump in damage or to be added into the Stormstrike crit bonus for it to go back to a situation of intelligent shocking instead of following a pattern.

 

The Flurry redesign and cooldown reworkings aren't in yet, should be in the next build this week.

 

Echo unfortunately doesn't reset the CD, just makes it not trigger one when used.  So if my Lava Lash/Lava Burst triggers it, I have to wait for it to come back around, or pray for a Lava Surge proc, after which I can cast a second one.  I think that the Flame Shock resetting Lava Lash (ala T16 4pc) got ditched as well, as I didn't have a single reset in 10 mins on a dummy.

 

Ele also needs some balancing.  My LB crits are hitting harder than my LvBs, INCLUDING the Flame Shock interaction.  Of course LvB maintains it's higher value because of the automatic crits, but it's still awkward.

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How does ele aoe work? are we back to CL spam with the earthquake removal or is there some depth?

Fulmination hits hard enough @ 20 stacks that you want to weave Earth Shocks in as you go, but it's back to CL spam for us.

 

Unfortunate. =(

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Did you run out of mana?

Yes, for both Ele and Enh, they're timed by mana.  This will be fixed once the next build comes down.

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I don't know where the issue is, but I get about 5 fps (at best) on your stream (though the audio goes fine), so it's a bit hard to see some of the finer points.  I do like the look/feel of the new echo, and the new visuals seem pretty rad.

 

It looks like they haven't implemented any of the enhancement changes in the last round of notes (other than removing the mana proc).  Shucks.  Hopefully they'll get to that in the next build, I want to see the new flurry in action (I'm currently skeptical, but hopeful, about it).  Similarly, hopefully they'll get the level 100 pvp server up so we can see how it plays with all the rotation-changing perks.

 

 

Did some math about the new fulminate, though.  tl;dr, it hits several times as hard as Chaos Bolt.  (Gross oversimplification, but useful for reference.)

 

Lightning Shield - 22.6305% SP per orb
 = 429.9795% SP on a full fulminate dump

Earth Shock - 35.952% SP base
 =43.1424% SP with the +20% shock damage perk

 

Between the two of them, you get 473.12% SP on a fully loaded shock, or 516.26% SP if you're using the new Elemental Fusion talent.  So, aside from comparing that to how Chaos Bolt only starts at 210% SP (it's actual damage is much higher, though), that's pretty huge.  But how huge?  Well, remember that elemental crits for nonsensically large amounts.  Specifically, 270%, with the perk.  So that 473 turns into 1277, and the 516 into 1393.91% SP.  And then that can multistrike.  Twice.  So we're up to 2230.26% SP, making it hit about 3 or 4 times as hard as Chaos Bolt actually does (ten times its base damage).  So... ow.  (Point of order; I am not entirely sure that the fulminate damage itself can multistrike in WoD.  It can absolutely crit, and I recall it multistriking on live but should probably check that.)

 

Fortunately, the devs foresaw this problem in a general sense, so critical strike bonus damage and multistrike capability are each reduced by half against other players.  So, against another player, our mega-fulminate does a "mere" 1241.62% SP.  That's still huge.

 

So now I have some questions for Hybrys (or Stoove, or the others in); on the alpha, how much health do you have, and how much spellpower do you have?  And can you confirm if fulminate damage can multistrike?

 

Oh, I just realized the Earth Shock damage can Overload too.  Not to mention that you can precede this monstrous, instant-cast, bankable, zero-travel-time attack with back to back Lava Bursts if you save an Echo proc (they seem to come in with good frequency, this is absolutely something you can plan).  To be fair, you won't always get this to crit and multistrike, so it evens out reasonably well in PvE (though our on-demand snap burst is going to give tanks nightmares), but I'm seriously concerned about globaling people in PvP with reasonable frequency.  And if we can do that, that means "train the blue" doesn't go away, which means I remain sad.

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Must be your Flash or something.  Smooth to me and others.  Try another browser?

 

At level 91, with item level 500, I'm at 57k HP and 51k mana.  I also have 1296 spell power.  If character copies were available, I'd have somewhere in the range of 2200, maybe as high as 2500.

 

I'll be 92 later this morning, and I'll post that as well.

 

Fulmination cannot Overload, but can multistrike.  All damage can multistrike, including Overload procs.  So a single cast can see 9 pieces of damage.  Fulmination, even at less than 15 stacks, hits for a pretty hefty amount.  It's great.  I'm looking forward to it in Ashran, but I bet it'll get nerfed.

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Edited my last post with some additional information, and a correction to max damage events from a single cast.

 

Technically Fulmination is two casts, so it can roll

Earth Shock + 2x Multistrike

Earth Shock Overload + 2x Multistrike

Fulmination + 2x Multistrike

 

For a total of 9 pieces of damage.

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Edited my last post with some additional information, and a correction to max damage events from a single cast.

 

Technically Fulmination is two casts, so it can roll

Earth Shock + 2x Multistrike

Earth Shock Overload + 2x Multistrike

Fulmination + 2x Multistrike

 

For a total of 9 pieces of damage.

I just applied multistrike damage potential to the whole cast since each component can multistrike.  Incorporating the Overload (and it multistriking) brings you up to 2510% SP against PvE targets, and 1397% SP against other players.  However, there is a really good point about how many damage events there are here; since each of them multistrikes independently, and several of them crit independently (overload inherits crit, but as I recall the multistrikes are supposed to roll separately), the actual chance of this perfect storm happening is pretty small.  (But not that small since multistrike looks like elemental's best stat right now.)

 

Then again, the chance of us getting a bunch of back to back overloads and echos was pretty low before MoP-echo got an ICD, and that still happened.  Law of large numbers, lots of people play, etc.  More importantly, the mere existence of this capability is what causes the very real effect of people tunneling shamans until they die; it's pretty much the only thing you can do to prevent this.

 

With the stats Hybrys provided, it looks like he could potentially bus-shock himself for 18,108 damage, which is about a third of his health.  With the imported guess of 2200, that number goes up to 30,739, which is a little over half his health.  So, not one-shotting people... unless you have two shamans, anyway.  It's still a truly frightening amount of damage to be able to hit someone with at instant speed, with zero travel time, that doesn't rely on any temporary boost that can be played against.  So yeah, if this goes live, "train the blue" sticks around, since it's the only realistic counterplay to our new and improved freight-train-shock.

 

 

 

My other worry with a 20-stack fulminate is how long it takes to get.  I'll sometimes refrain from Earth Shocking trash right before a boss so I can have it ready for the pull (well, for after Ascendance wears off).  If this is supposed to be a large enough part of our damage, I'm a little concerned about people running off to chain-lightning some target dummies for stacks before boss pulls and the like.  The average raider won't, but world first types might, if they need just a little more dps to beat a very tight enrage.  Hardcore raiders may be a minority, but they're people too, and "optimal" shouldn't require any such shenanigans.  Hopefully, the standard opener will consistently get you at least into the high teens by the time Ascendance falls off, between multistrikes generating charges and the perk allowing Lava Burst to do so as well.  If so, the gain would be miniscule and entirely not worth the effort.  We'll see once level 100 testing starts.

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Overload can actually double dip Crit, as far as I recall.  Along with that, Multistrike is flat damage, and cannot roll crit.  It simply rolls chance.  What I'm pleased about is the fact that we're going to be the kings of RPPM trinkets, since each cast has a total of 6 max damage events, and multistrike spells CAN trigger trinkets.  That, combined with the likely Haste stacking environment in the first tier, will give us great value from trinkets.

 

Burst potential is even higher when you think about the current damage of Lightning Bolt and a single cast being rolled into the instant that is Fulmination.  Take that 1397% SP, add in the 150% from EB or 79% from LB, and laugh if they both crit/Overload/Multistrike.

 

 

I'm not worried about Fulmination charging because of the changes they've made to compensate for it.  In a previous build, even Lava Burst/Lava Beam could generate Fulmination stacks, and the newest build shows that Multistrike Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightnings will also generate stacks.  That's, again, 6 60% chances for each LB, and 6 20% chances per target (!) for each CL, all scaling directly with Haste/Mastery/Multistrike.  I'm estimating that we'll be generating stacks at about the same rate as before in our current Mastery stack gearing, but with Multistrike stacking, we're going to see the same thing as Mastery stacking, but effectively doubled.

 

I am hoping that the Lava Burst Fulmination generation stays, and that would effectively stop the 1% from going to dummies every pull.

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Wow, yeah, Lava Burst gets up to 583% SP in PvP (if it overloads and multistrikes).  So... bank fulminate, wait for echo and lava surge proc, LvB-LvB-ES lands in the space of one GCD for 2564% SP.  Against a player.  So... yeah, we can global people again.  Great.  >.>  To be fair, the chance of this many separate events all overloading/multistriking isn't huge, but as long as the fulminate itself crits it's still going to be enormous, potentially lethal amounts of damage even with no other bonuses.

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What's bothering me right now is Enh being so balanced around melee white hits.  It does around the same raw DPS as Ele (which is nice to see that flavour maintained) but literally 25% of my damage was just passive, with another ~30% coming from my once-every-2-minutes Fire Ele.

 

That feels awful, and while a Mastery build such as the current flavour would 'fix' that by shifting more damage into my spells, nearly 55% being so passive is just a crazy amount.

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Ended up getting to 92 today, so my updated stats are as such:

 

ilvl 516 avg

70649 HP

65000 Mana

1440 Spell Power (w/ i516 weapon)

 

I did a couple instances, one as Ele and one as Resto, as well as a good portion of my leveling as Enhancement.  Enhancement flows a lot better than Ele, because you can fight on the move, and I may even level as Enh because of it.

 

Resto was fairly awkward to play, with our current build toolkit being reduced to 5 main spells (Healing Wave, Chain Heal, Healing Surge, Riptide, and Healing Rain) with Healing Stream/Tide Totems and Earth Shield being tossed in a healthy amount.  I could spam and spam without mana consequences, but my heals did next to nothing, with my highest Healing Waves critting for ~16k w/ Earth Shield on my target.

 

Healing Rain was near useless, ticking for ~850 non-crit, and this could be heavily attributed to missing Unleash Life (should be coming back in the next built).  Riptide was even reaching the 700s uncommonly, on it's ticks, so it was a little awkward, and felt very inefficient to be casting Healing Rain.

 

Chain Heal was an absolute boon in the AoE damage circumstances, with it healing for approx 2.2k on the initial (w/ RT), scaling to ~850 on it's final jump.  It felt very effective, and I played with my position a little bit to make it chain to all targets (if I had a melee at full HP, for instance.)

 

I forgot to replace my mount and Ascendance binds, so I only got to use it once.  When I did, it felt very weak, as if I didn't use a cooldown at all.  I guess praying for a 16k crit to duplicate to a 3.2k wasn't what I expected, and I routinely hit for 6-7k, spreading a weak 1.2k.  On the other hand, Healing Tide Totem was very effective, with ticks ranging from 3k to 7k crits.

 

I'll post my log and video tomorrow morning.

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I'll be into the Alpha just as soon as I get home! biggrin.png

You wish!  It's down for now, and may be for another day or two, because they're releasing Shadowmoon Valley... but I'm hoping they also fully implement the changes for shamans, instead of doing it halfway.  I'm fairly sure when I healed, we hadn't been compensated for the Earthliving change yet, which definitely hurt.

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You wish!  It's down for now, and may be for another day or two, because they're releasing Shadowmoon Valley... but I'm hoping they also fully implement the changes for shamans, instead of doing it halfway.  I'm fairly sure when I healed, we hadn't been compensated for the Earthliving change yet, which definitely hurt.

 

TBF, I only just got home. Been abroad all week! =\

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Alpha restrictions have been changed!  Level 100 test characters are now available.

 

I'll be doing some testing on the l100 talents soon.

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Just got into the Beta, and I'll be testing Live vs Beta DPS soon.

 

New zones are locked until 2pm PST, at which time I'll be streaming all night while I level.

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