WOD BETA DISCUSSION w/SCREENSHOTS

[Zagam 1,983]

Until number tuning comes, it's hard to say what spec fills what role.  It also largely goes into encounter design.  If there's a phase of a fight where you have to nuke 4 adds down super fast, I'm going to go with Destruction.  If there's a phase where there are two targets, Affliction might be what's up.  If it's pure ST, Demo might win.  Who knows.  They may blow up Affliction and make Warlocks hate life.  Affliction is going to be so ridiculously boring that if it's the top DPS spec, Warlocks are going to be like 'uh, is this all we have to do to be good?'  Boom, Flavor of the Month status again. 

 

Fun is a subjective term.  Lots of people have come to this thread to argue what is fun or not, and those points really need to be prefaced with "what I personally find fun is..." instead of trying to explain what fun is as if it was objective and applicable to all.  The reason we are playing Warlocks is because WE find it fun.  You wouldn't want a Mage to tell you why they think Warlocks are fun...well, yes you would, but hopefully the point is received.  Value comes from your personal experience, knowledge, and ability to adapt into roles.  No raid group or guild is made equal.  People tend to forget that when they consider certain talents.  Someone may see me using KJC on Siegecrafter and think I'm stupid for not taking AD.  Little do they know that I've personally assigned myself to do 80% of the damage to all of the Crawler Mines as well as 100% of the damage to the Overcharged Crawler Mines.  Because of this, KJC suits me better than a small DPS boost because moving and casting Incinerate on Crawler Mines beats having 30% more damage from a Chaos Bolt I can't cast because of a mine focusing on me.  Doing 30k less DPS to me is just fine if all the mines are handled with ease and no one has to run out of their place to help with them or CC them.

 

We need to stop with the "Sky is Falling" mantra and remember that we'll be fine.  If you don't like Warlocks or Grimoire of Service or Mannoroth's Fury, don't play it, pick it, or use it.  Even when there is an "optimal" choice, it's usually marginally better than a sub-optimal choice.  Take for example my use of GoSup as Destro over GoSac.  GoSac comes out 1% better - so naturally the community shouts "IF YOU'RE NOT USING GOSAC YOU'RE BAD!"  No you're not.  Maybe using my Imp is more fun to me!  What's the real difference between 455k DPS as Sacrifice or 448k DPS as Supremacy.  Did I REALLY change anything in the fight to a significant degree?  Or, just to continue the ride on the Siegecrafter comparison, I take Supremacy on this fight because I can leave my Imp on Siegecrafter while I handle the mines.  I've found it to be a DPS gain FOR ME with MY STRATEGY.  I wouldn't tell people that Supremacy is a DPS gain, even though it is for me.  Everyone has to just relax and realize that Blizzard has gotten really good at making talents decisions again and not absolutes.  Having a difference of 1-2% isn't going to even make you noticeably worse.  It's also not going to make you noticeably better. 

 

WoD is still coming, and there are still MANY changes coming, whether they are small or not.  There are tons of combinations to come, whether it's AD vs KJC vs MF or the new 100 talent or even what spec to play.  I can promise you that even if something is deemed "bad" that it really won't be that bad.  Just to show you what I mean, go on the official forums and read peoples' opinions about Demonology.  It's not BAD, but because it's 5% behind Aff or Destro according to some log, people say it sucks.  Doing 95% of an incredibly high number is never a bad thing. 

 

TL;DR - The sky is NOT falling, Warlocks will be fine, quit defining "fun" in your terms, and buckle up for the ride into WoD.  We will be fine.

[Niix 169]

 

TL;DR - The sky is NOT falling, Warlocks will be fine, quit defining "fun" in your terms, and buckle up for the ride into WoD.  We will be fine.

 

This is what everybody needs to realize. Contrary to popular belief, Blizzard knows what they are doing. Things will change, but until we see numbers there is no reason to get into a tizzy. If you look at the beta, and at the top of the DPS charts. You see frost mages by a huge amount. Think that's going to make it into the final release? Doubtful. Nobody would complain if that was warlocks at the top of the charts. Blizzard is going to balance things a lot better this time around. The damage numbers are smaller, therefore we will see less of a difference between top of the charts and bottom of the charts.

 

The most important thing to remember is that this is a game. If you're not having fun with your class, maybe it's time to switch classes. If you want to be ridiculously overpowered like warlocks this tier, you might want to go back to what class you played before warlock, because while they will still be good, they will not be as OP as they were this tier.

[Zilthy 36]

DON'T PANIC!

 

There we go.  In large friendly letters even.

Now if I could just find my towel....

Edited August 23, 2014 by Zilthy

[Jessix 0]

Ugh...the Blizz Warlock forums is almost nothing but wailing and moaning about the loss of Fel Flame. There are cool constructive nuggets in there, but the conversation regresses back to wanting to cast something while moving (or wanting Shadow Bolt back as Affliction D:).

 

I feel like this community of Warlocks is pretty level-headed for the most part and could have a positive impact on the WoW forums. I don't plan to go back over there until a numbers pass, but a few good voices could really change the conversation for the better.

[Lockybalboa 618]

Ugh...the Blizz Warlock forums is almost nothing but wailing and moaning about the loss of Fel Flame. There are cool constructive nuggets in there, but the conversation regresses back to wanting to cast something while moving (or wanting Shadow Bolt back as Affliction D:).

 

I feel like this community of Warlocks is pretty level-headed for the most part and could have a positive impact on the WoW forums. I don't plan to go back over there until a numbers pass, but a few good voices could really change the conversation for the better.

 

 

Blizz forums are evil.

 

My slap hand tingles when I think about those forums.

[Zagam 1,983]

I don't go to Blizzard forums or MMO-Champ.  The atmosphere of both feels too erratic and standoffish.  I like my comfy place here.

[Astynax 24]

I don't go to Blizzard forums or MMO-Champ.  The atmosphere of both feels too erratic and standoffish.  I like my comfy place here.

*Cheers music starts playing in the background as Zagam stares off wistfully into the distance at nothing in particular....

[Liquidsteel 279]

I love Icy Veins, but even if you don't post or get involved over at MMO-C (it can be hard work sometimes with trolls), there is still a wealth of information to be gleaned from it.

 

I certainly learned a ton of stuff there that I didn't find here, and I think it's nice to have that balance.

[Twinkielock 15]

Since the days of reforging are over, is the next debate going to be what class brings .1% more DPS?

[Zagam 1,983]

I love Icy Veins, but even if you don't post or get involved over at MMO-C (it can be hard work sometimes with trolls), there is still a wealth of information to be gleaned from it.

 

I certainly learned a ton of stuff there that I didn't find here, and I think it's nice to have that balance.

Oh, I browse there for news and stuff.  I sometimes I go to read up on stuff, but most of the time, you or others bring that info here.  I just consider you guys my ambassadors who bring the good and leave the bad.

[Janglybits 1]

I love Icy Veins, but even if you don't post or get involved over at MMO-C (it can be hard work sometimes with trolls), there is still a wealth of information to be gleaned from it.

 

I certainly learned a ton of stuff there that I didn't find here, and I think it's nice to have that balance.

I like visiting both, although I'm selective about what I read over there, whereas I read everything in the Lock forum here.  I really appreciate Zinnin's Demo posts and Brusalk's stuff on Destro.  I wish we could get them to head over this way.

[Zilthy 36]

I like MMO-Champion too, although I am not active there, I do read now and then.  My biggest issue with the bnet forums is actually the far too many caustic and toxic elements there.

 

I know remember Zag warning about a log review being brutally honest, and true to his word:  70% uptime on Doom?  Horrible!

 

But, there is a world of difference between that, and the type of stuff that goes on in the bnet forums.  I have yet to see anyone here refer to someone else as incompetent, loser or baddie (that one is a pet peeve of mine.  are we 4 years old?) or anything of the like.

[Sifon 25]

I also visit MMO-Champ forums but I almost never post there. Issue with bnet and mmo-c forums is simply more people, it is like a cozy small house in here where other forums are huge convention centers where everybody speaks and mourns and argues about stuff. Also more people speaking means less refined content.

 

Although I don't have beta access yet(killed garrosh just after last wave of invites :/), I really want something to do while moving as destro. I don't mind going meta and spending some fury as demo or even recasting my dots as affli but you cannot cast anything unless you save conflag charges for conditional movement.

[Alphric 7]

I like MMO-Champ's warlock transmog thread.

[vaeevictiss 17]

I think the general consensus here is....

 

[Zagam 1,983]

It's a natural human reaction to be resistant to any change until experience of the change has been gained.  The profession I work in involves improving processes and cutting waste out when possible.  One of my internships involved going down into a coal mine and looking at how coal miners did their job.  When I found out 6 of them could do the job 11 were currently doing, let's just say that news wasn't well received.  Even worse was when I told them I found them a faster route in the mine so they could get to work faster and leave the job site later within their shift.  Sometimes, you found a process that would make someone's life easier.  Try telling a guy who's been doing something for 20-30 years how to do it better and he'll tell you where to shove your analysis. 

 

Point is - people resist change, even if it's a positive effect.  Once everything gets put into action, the chatter will slow down, the theoreticals become actuals, and we will all be ok. 

[Alphric 7]

yeah^^^

I'm a high school band director, and I'm new, so a big thing is like, "well our old band director said to do it like this". So it's as frustrating for us as it is for blizz. 

[Zagam 1,983]

"This is the way we've always done it" is one of the worst statements that could ever be told.  This does NOT mean, in any way, shape, or form, that it is the best way to do things.  Familiar is too easy for humans.

[vaeevictiss 17]

I really wish i could play on the beta again. My character was in the, apparently, very small group to get wiped on the 12th of August and never restored or even given the option to get another premade level 100. Im not about to level a toon from friggin level 1 just for 2 months of play.

 

Pretty pissed about that.

[juribe 1]

sweet jesus those demo nerfs on beta

[juribe 1]

Warlock (Forums, Talent Calculator)

• Corruption (Demonology) Metamorphosis transforms this spell into Doom: Doom Inflicts impending doom upon the target, causing [ 4 + 150% 120% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage over 60 sec.
• Corruption (Demonology) Metamorphosis transforms this spell into Doom: Doom Inflicts impending doom upon the target, causing [ 4 + 150% 120% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage over 60 sec.
• Corruption (Demonology) Metamorphosis transforms this spell into Doom: Doom Inflicts impending doom upon the target, causing [ 4 + 150% 120% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage over 60 sec.
• Shadow Bolt (Affliction, Destruction) Sends a shadowy bolt at the enemy, causing [ 1 + 124.2% 74% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage.
• Shadow Bolt (Demonology) Sends a shadowy bolt at the enemy, causing [ 1 + 124.2% 74% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage and generating 25 Demonic Fury. Metamorphosis transforms this spell into Touch of Chaos: Touch of Chaos Unleashes energy at the enemy, causing [ 1 + 69.03% 40% of Spell Power ] Chaos damage and extending the duration of Corruption.

Talents

• Demonbolt Launch of ball of demonic energy at the target, dealing [ 1 + 250% 150% of Spell Power ] Chaos damage. Each Demonbolt amplifies further Demonbolts, increasing damage by 20% and cost by 100% for 60 sec (reduced by Haste), stacking up to 10 times. Requires Metamorphosis. Warlock - LvL 0 Talent. 80 Demonic Fury. 40 yd range. 2 sec cast.

Affliction

• Haunt A ghostly soul haunts the target, dealing [ 1 + 375% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage and increasing damage over time you deal to the target by 35% 30%for 8 sec. Warlock - Affliction Spec. 1 Soul Shard. 40 yd range. 1.5 sec cast.

Demonology

• Hand of Gul'dan (Affliction, Destruction) Strikes the target and all enemies within 6 yards for [ 86% [ 68.8% of Spell Power ] instant Shadowflame damage and an additional [ 22.5% [ 18% of Spell Power ] Shadowflame damage and 12 Demonic Fury over 6 sec.
• Hand of Gul'dan (Demonology) Strikes the target and all enemies within 6 yards for [ 86% [ 68.8% of Spell Power ] instant Shadowflame damage and an additional [ 22.5% [ 18% of Spell Power ] Shadowflame damage and 12 Demonic Fury over 6 sec. Metamorphosis transforms this spell into Chaos Wave: Chaos Wave Hurls a wave of chaos to strike the target and all enemies within 6 yards, dealing [ 131.28% [ 105% of Spell Power ] Chaos damage and reducing movement speed by 50% for 6 sec.
• Soul Fire (Affliction, Destruction) Burn the enemy's soul, causing [ 1 + 42.5% 34% of Spell Power ] Fire damage.
• Soul Fire (Demonology) Burn the enemy's soul, causing [ 1 + 42.5% 34% of Spell Power ] Fire damage and generating 30 Demonic Fury.

[juribe 1]

That legit hurts my soul

[Alphric 7]

Its Nerf or nuthin. Apocalypse now. Class change imminent. Armageddon outta here.

[Zagam 1,983]

Kicked hard while down - we'll see where this puts us.

[gahhda 95]

Kicked hard while down - we'll see where this puts us.

 

You should probably consider not ever playing demo until it gets buffed.