Mikbar

Looking to Improve as a tank

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I'd really appreciate if someone could look over my logs and point out things I need to improve on, i'm sure theres plenty as I only just started playing as ToT released but I feel I have done very well for myself considering I haven't played the game for a super long time.

 

Armory:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/mannoroth/Mikbar/advanced

 

Logs:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RpjtZH8GN37m21XF (H Immerseus-Protectors)

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/btG7mPJqVgxTB9kd (H Noru - Siegecrafter)

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DXCTyAP2fvRF7zbG (H Garrosh)

 

Tanks a lot (haha),

         Mikbar

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Hi Mikbar,

 

I'm just about to head to bed, I'll look through your logs and give you some feedback once I get up.

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I started off by looking at your armory page. Right away, I noticed that you're using Dancing Steel on your weapon. In the past two tiers, Dancing Steel and River's Song were nearly equal but not currently. Riposte only considers dodge and parry rating, so Dancing Steel is giving you a pitiful amount of AP (only 10% of which will be factored into your Shield Barriers) and some parry %, but no crit. Your gems are a mix of pure dodge, pure parry, dodge+parry, dodge+stam, and parry+stam, so it looks like you're considering DR, which is laudable. As far as your gear itself, I would recommend replacing your chest with Earthbreaker's Steaming Chestplate, replacing your helm with the tier helm, and replacing your belt with Untarnishable Greatbelt. Your topmost ring, boots, and neck are contributing to the fact that you're massively over hit cap even though you've reforged out of as much hit as you can, replace them with Ring of the Iron Tomb, Ominous Mogu Greatboots, and Blackfuse's Blasting Cord as soon as possible, even if you can only get them heroic and not HWF.

 

I'm going to take a look at a few fights to get an idea of how you're handling cooldowns, mitigation, and damage output. In particular, I'll be looking at Protectors, Dark Shaman, Malkorok, Thok, and Garrosh.

 

Protectors:

Fight Length: 6:15


Cooldowns:

Shield Wall: 1

Last Stand: 1

Demo Shout: 3

Bloodbath: 5

Dragon Roar: 5

Reck: 2

Spell Reflection: 2

Intervene:

t2 Talent: 2

t5 Talent: 1

Trinket: 3

Rallying Cry: 2

Demoralizing Banner: 2

 

CDs are pretty much what I'd be expecting, given the age of the content. If I was looking at you as an applicant, I'd want to see another Shield Wall and Last Stand, and a few more Demo Shouts. I do see that you're using your raid CDs and your Vig, which is very good. I am just a bit confused by the battle stance, though. Misclick?


Mitigation:

SBlk uptime: 12.81%

SBar uses: 26

SBar avg size: 283k

SBar overhealing: 27.91%

 

Your average SBar size is fine for the fight, but your Shield Block uptime was very low. It looks like you had Rook, so I don't know why you'd really be prioritizing SBar over SBlk to that degree. Having a Shield Barrier up for the Vengeful Strikes is good, but otherwise you'll see more benefit from SBlk.


Rage Use:

Rage gained: 2990

Rage used on DPS: 720

Rage used on mitigation/healing: 1974

Rage wasted raw: 296

Rage wasted %: 9.90%

 

Your rage use could use some work. You lost just shy of 10% of your total rage gained and almost three full rage bars. Additionally, judging by your low uptime on Shield Block, you could easily have put all of your wasted rage into SBlk since it is unlikely that it was on CD.

 

Dark Shaman:

Fight Length: 4:25


Cooldowns:

Shield Wall: 0

Last Stand: 1

Demo Shout: 3

Bloodbath: 3

Dragon Roar: 3

Reck: 2

Intervene: 0

t2 Talent: 1

t5 Talent: 1

Trinket: 3

Disarm: 2

 

Your CD usage here wasn't quite as good as it was on Protectors, I'd like to see a bare minimum of one Shield Wall. It is good to see you utilizing Disarm and thinking of your fellow tank with Vig. If you notice that your Riposte falls before you get to tank again, use Intervene to try to proc it again.

 

Mitigation:

SBlk uptime: 15.81%

SBar uses: 20

SBar avg size: 424k

SBar overhealing: 1.04%

 

Your SBars were very well-used here. Having only 1% overhealing is good. However, your Shield Block usage is still very low. Froststorm Strike is the damage that is most likely to kill you, so it needs to be dealt with via Shield Barrier, but melee damage is a very large source of damage, second only to Toxic Mist, so it needs to be dealt with as well.


Rage Use:

Rage gained: 2330

Rage used on DPS: 360

Rage used on mitigation/healing: 1556

Rage wasted raw: 414

Rage wasted %: 17.77%

 

That rage waste was just shy of another 7 SBlk casts, which would have doubled your uptime.

 

Malk:

Fight Length: 4:46


Cooldowns:

Shield Wall: 1

Last Stand: 1

Demo Shout: 1

Avatar: 2

Dragon Roar: 3

Reck: 2

Intervene: 0

t2 Talent: 0

t5 Talent: 1

Trinket: 2

 

I'm surprised by the lack of Enraged Regen uses. In the future, I'd recommend using it as soon as the fight starts and after the first Blood Rage to build your shield. Your offensive CDs are in line, but your defensives are low. I'm curious about the switch from Bloodbath to Avatar for this fight specifically.


Mitigation:

SBlk uptime: 21.09%

SBar uses: 6

SBar avg size: 246k

SBar overhealing: 64.71%

 

This fight is a bad one for you. You had a 10% uptime on SBar, so combined, you had only a 30% uptime on any sort of active mitigation, whereas you had a 73% uptime on Riposte. Further, your SBars were too small and also didn't get used. Malk is a heavy melee fight, so I'd expect at least a 40% uptime on SBlk, but more likely 45%-50%.


Rage Use:

Rage gained: 1740

Rage used on DPS: 360

Rage used on mitigation/healing: 892

Rage wasted raw: 488

Rage wasted %: 28.04%

 

You know the comments.

 

Thok:

Fight Length: 6:19


Cooldowns:

Shield Wall: 0

Last Stand: 1

Demo Shout: 4

Avatar: 2

Dragon Roar: 4

Reck: 2

t2 Talent: 2

t5 Talent: 2

Trinket: 3

 

You started out so strong with your defensive use and it has dwindled while your offensive uses have stayed roughly the same. At this point, you're probably getting tired, but make sure you keep up on those CDs.


Mitigation:

SBlk uptime: 11.08%

SBar uses: 21

SBar avg size: 536k

SBar overhealing: 19.27%

 

That SBlk uptime is still very low. Your SBar average size seems a tad low as well. Are you making sure that you have 60 rage when using it? The overhealing is not horrible, but lower would be better. The OH may be caused by overwriting your SBars before they're used, so watch that, if that's the case.


Rage Use:

Rage gained: 3215

Rage used on DPS: 510

Rage used on mitigation/healing: 2149

Rage wasted raw: 556

Rage wasted %: 17.29%

 

Garrosh:

Fight Length: 12:37


Cooldowns:

Shield Wall: 0

Last Stand: 1

Demo Shout: 3

Avatar: 4

Shockwave: 9

Reck: 4

Intervene: 5

t2 Talent: 2

t5 Talent: 1

Trinket: 3

 

Your defensives are far below expectation here. I'm very curious about the choice of Shockwave for this fight.


Mitigation:

SBlk uptime: 26.94%

SBar uses: 15

SBar avg size: 334k

SBar overhealing: 25.42%

 

Your SBlk uptime is lower than I'd like. Your average SBar size is lower than I'd like. Your overhealing would be okay, but not great if your SBars were in the 600k range, but 25% is distressingly high for the small size of your barriers. I'm guessing that you were using them with less than 60 rage or when you didn't have full Vengeance.


Rage Use:

Rage gained: 4995

Rage used on DPS: 570

Rage used on mitigation/healing: 2867

Rage wasted raw: 1558

Rage wasted %: 31.19%

 

Your rage use was extremely poor on this fight.

 

Overall:

 

Making use of all of the rage one generates is the primary subtlety of our spec. It is one that is easy to overlook, but it comes at a high cost. Rage is everything. It is damage output and intake. Every bit of rage you lose is something you could have done better. As odd as this may sound, I would highly recommend dropping Glyph of Unending Rage for Incite. There is no need in this tier to have a 120 rage pool. I've only ever seen it encourage hoarding rage, which really does nothing but hurt you. Additionally, Incite give you three free uses of HS/Cleave per use of Demo Shout, so it'll give you a damage boost and an incentive to make better use of your defensives. Just be sure that you're using it as a defensive still and not as a DPS CD. In order to avoid rage waste, always keep a close eye on your rage. Keep in mind that Sword and Board add an extra 5 rage to Shield Slam and that Devastate and Shield Slam will generate an extra 10 when they crit. Therefore, if you're at 90 or more rage, make sure you use SBlk, SBar, Heroic Strike, or Cleave before Devastating. If you're at 80 or more rage, use something before hitting Revenge. If you're at 70 or more (65 with S&B proc), bleed off some rage before using Shield Slam.

 

The other major issue I see is your active mitigation. You're over-prioritizing SBar. In doing so, you're harming your survivability and massively cutting into your damage output. SBlk is for smoothing and for melee fights. It's your primary tool for making your damage intake less spiky so it's easier to deal with. SBar handles spikes of damage and is also an outlet for excess rage. Through Heavy Repercussions, SBlk is an important part of your damage output and the damage you can do as a tank certainly matters.

 

You're on the right track. This may seem like an overwhelming amount of things to change, but it is entirely doable. Set yourself obtainable goals and work on them. Maybe next week you'll focus on your active mitigation and once you feel pretty good about that, you can start working on your rage use. Farm content is a great time to look at what you're doing and really improve upon yourself.

 

Side note: really sorry this took so long. I was about 1/3 of the way through when my power went out and stayed out for 6.5 hours.

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I really really really appreciate the time you took to pick through my logs. Most of the time when i get crtisism it has to do with dealing with a certain mechanic of a fight and thats all fine and dandy but I hardly ever get critisized when it comes to CD/RAGE use or buff uptimes which makes it more difficult to fine tune how I play the class. I will edit this post when I get home to further discuss some of the points you have brought up.

Thanks again,

Mikbar

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I took what you told me and did my best, I believe I did a lot better tonight.

I still have some things I would like to bring up, I just didn't have enough time between when i got home and raid time.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/nw2LDtkva1Kr9YVf#type=resources&fight=3&spell=101

 

Edit: Malk is not a good fight, I think I had the boss for a total of 3 seconds, the monk pulled and the pally then grabbed the boss and held it for the rest of the fight (not including blood rage) to try to max his dps. and Thok, he held the boss for the entire 1st phase trying to rank.

Edited by Mikbar

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Okay, I'll take a look at some fights other than Malk and Thok, probably tomorrow, but no real guarantees.

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For this week's logs, I'm going to look at Protectors, Dark Shaman, Nazgrim, and Garrosh.

 

I see that you linked me directly to your much improved rage use. I find that highly amusing.

 

Protectors:

Fight Length: 4:36


Cooldowns:

Shield Wall: 2

Last Stand: 0

Demo Shout: 4

Bloodbath: 1

Dragon Roar: 1

Reck: 2

Spell Reflection: 1

t2 Talent: 0

t5 Talent: 0

Trinket: 2

Rallying Cry: 0

Demoralizing Banner: 1

 

Your damage CD usage was a bit less attentive than it was last week. You had only 1 BB+DR compared to last week's 5. Looking at your CDs, you had one more Shield Wall, but one less Last Stand, so you're about even. You did have more Demo Shouts though, so hooray!

 

Mitigation:

SBlk uptime: 64.95%

SBar uses: 8

SBar avg size: 398k

SBar overhealing: 0%

 

Bravo!

 

Rage Use:

Rage gained: 2265

Rage used on DPS: 60

Rage used on mitigation/healing: 2180

Rage wasted raw: 25

Rage wasted %: 1.10%

 

This fight overall looks really, really good. Your SBlk uptime was superb and you interspersed some SBars and timed them well.

 

Dark Shaman:

Fight Length: 5:01


Cooldowns:

Shield Wall: 0

Last Stand: 1

Demo Shout: 5

Bloodbath: 4

Shockwave: 6

Reck: 2

Disarm: 2

Intervene: 1

t2 Talent: 1

t5 Talent: 2

Trinket: 3

Rallying Cry: 0

Demoralizing Banner: 1

 

Major CD usage could still use a bit of attention. Why Shockwave?

 

Mitigation:

SBlk uptime: 61.68%

SBar uses: 14

SBar avg size: 427k

SBar overhealing: 2.47%

 

Rage Use:

Rage gained: 2840

Rage used on DPS: 90

Rage used on mitigation/healing: 2689

Rage wasted raw: 61

Rage wasted %: 2.15%

 

The good trend of SBlk uptimes and effective rage use continues! \o/ The one thing I'm noticing is that you're getting more Ultimatum and Incite procs than you're using. In total, you had 38 free HS/Cleaves, but you used 27. This happened on Protectors as well, but Rook stuns, so missing a few is expected. With Incite and a nice bit of crit, you're likely to have Ultimatum procs during Incite's duration. As long as you use HS/Cleave on every one of their GCDs, you should be able to get them all. It feels a bit weird at first to be spamming HS like that, but they're all free!

 

Nazgrim:

Fight Length: 4:59


Cooldowns:

Shield Wall: 1

Last Stand: 1

Demo Shout: 4

Bloodbath: 4

Shockwave: 3

Reck: 2

Intervene: 1

t2 Talent: 3

t5 Talent: 1

Trinket: 2

Rallying Cry: 0

Demoralizing Banner: 1

 

Mitigation:

SBlk uptime: 56.08%

SBar uses: 14

SBar avg size: 280k

SBar overhealing: 18.48%

 

Your average SBar size is a bit lower than I'd expect for 25H Nazgrim, but I'm guessing an Execute crept up on you and you threw out a SBar with whatever rage you had. Not ideal, but it happens. Overhealing is a bit high, but not too bad, and again it's probably due to Execute and tank switches lining up. Your SBlk uptime is still good.

 

Rage Use:

Rage gained: 2405

Rage used on DPS: 0

Rage used on mitigation/healing: 2369

Rage waste raw: 36

Rage wasted %: 1.50%

 

Still missing some of your free HS/Cleaves.

 

Garrosh:

Fight Length:


Cooldowns:

Shield Wall:

Last Stand:

Demo Shout:

Bloodbath:

Dragon Roar:

Reck:

Spell Reflection:

Intervene:

t2 Talent:

t5 Talent:

Trinket:

Rallying Cry:

Demoralizing Banner:

 

Mitigation:

SBlk uptime:

SBar uses:

SBar avg size:

SBar overhealing:

 

Rage Use:

Rage gained:

Rage used on DPS:

Rage used on mitigation/healing:

Rage wasted raw:

Rage wasted %:

 

Looks like you have one more night before I can look at your Garrosh logs. I'm very impressed by the massive improvements you made. For now, I'd focus on rotating CDs a bit more and using all of your Incites and Ultimatums. From your perspective, did you notice a difference in your threat and damage output? Smoothness? Did your healers comment?

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Theres still some things I need to work out. I found myself tunneling my rage number a lot but the more i work on it the less ill have to focus on it and it will become swcond nature. As for talent choices, I just forgot to swap them out sometimes inbetween fights. Fortunately its not a huge deal cause its all farm content. I'm curious if you have a way of tracking hoq many charges you get from incite so i dont lose track of my free HS/cleaves.

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I love the fact that watching ya'll go over this stuff helps me learn SO MUCH about what I can do better.

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I'm glad it's helping, Mooze!

 

Mikbar,

 

I use protwarbar and have the bar color-coded based on if I have enough rage to Hs/Execute, if I have enough to mitigate, then one at 80, one at 90, and one at 100 to show when I'm getting to and passing thresholds of where I need to be using rage.

 

I actually don't use anything to track my Incite charges other than the basic UI. It's three procs per use, so mostly I just keep track mentally. If that doesn't work for you, you could easily make a WA for it.

 

I've forgotten to swap talents many, many times.

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I would just like to say , how great the feed back that your giving out Estarriol. I don't even play a warrior but the time you took to really comb through Mikbars logs made me want to read it for myself. I'm currently rolling a Bear and tanking some flex and lfr for giggles and im having HUGE issues on Shaman . I know that with people like yourself and Zagam and his crew over on the lock forums that even players like myself  (casual) can and will improve when we get feedback that your giving .

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I like to cheat on Shaman and roll the 3-tank strat.  Because sometimes working smarter is just so much easier than working harder.  :P

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I would just like to say , how great the feed back that your giving out Estarriol. I don't even play a warrior but the time you took to really comb through Mikbars logs made me want to read it for myself. I'm currently rolling a Bear and tanking some flex and lfr for giggles and im having HUGE issues on Shaman . I know that with people like yourself and Zagam and his crew over on the lock forums that even players like myself  (casual) can and will improve when we get feedback that your giving .

 

You are always welcome to ask questions. I'm glad my feedback has been helpful for you. My specialty is warrior, but my favorite alt is my bear.

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Garrosh:

Fight Length: 11:42


Cooldowns:

Shield Wall: 3

Last Stand: 2

Demo Shout: 7

Bloodbath: 7

Dragon Roar: 7

Reck: 4

Intervene: 0

t2 Talent: 4

t5 Talent: 1

Trinket: proc

Synapse Springs: 6

 

Your Skull Banner and Reck uses were in line, but the rest of your CDs were a bit low. I'd expect a lower number of Bloodbath and Dragon Roar and the max possible, but 7 or each during a nearly 12 minute fight seems a bit too low. Your defensive CD usage was also a bit low.


Mitigation:

SBlk uptime: 53.03%

SBar uses: 21

SBar avg size: 697k

SBar overhealing: 10.73%

 

Your active mitigation use looks good. You could try to get the overhealing lower, but it can be tricky in this fight.

 

Rage Use:

Rage gained: 5625

Rage used on DPS: 420

Rage used on mitigation/healing: 4862

Rage wasted raw: 343

Rage wasted %: 6.10%

 

Like you said, you could have been better about using all of your rage. I think you can safely be putting more rage into your DPS, so don't be afraid to do so if your next Revenge/Shield Slam/etc will cause you to cap.

 

We have about two more months until the WoD prepatch launches, so until then, you have nothing to do but iterate on your good habits and try to improve yourself overall. You're headed to a good place, so make good habits to bring you into WoD mythic.

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      I figured I'd do a Part 2 of this since I've managed to move from having never tanked before to now I can't get enough of it. 
      I've noticed a few things and wanted as much input as I can get. What has struck me so far is the lack of healers running PUGs at the lvl 60-ish area. It takes forever to get a PUG group together and I haven't been able to keep a healer with us more than 1 run through. I've made some DPS friends through PUGs which is pretty cool, but what is up with the healers???
      The second thing is how my damage relates to a few other classes at about the same level. I'm currently lvl 67. I'm able to hold aggro nearly most of the time. I have some PUG members than have a pet with taunt or something but for the most part I am good to go. What I will see are Death Knights and some Warlock/Mages that seem to be doing crazy damage while only being a level or 2 higher than I am. Is that normal or am I undergeared? I haven't quite downloaded a damage meter just yet but from watching the health bar on the enemies I've noticed that those 2 can do some big damage by themselves! So is it a gear issue with me, is it just the nature of their class at that level or are they over-geared with extra goodies figuring their main has helped pay for their current state of their equipment? And with that, any recommendations or just hang in there until I get much higher level when better equipment appears? I have Heirloom for my chest, back, shoulders, weapon and trinkets. I haven't really found any quest gear or dungeon drops that is better that what I have now.
      I can't say Thank You enough to everybody that posted advice and encouragement in my first thread. It was very helpful and I've taken a lot of it to heart and put it to work. I have had so much fun doing this...as like most things in life you are leery of...once you try it you only regret NOT doing it sooner. 
    • By Chainlink12
      Associated with the <Validus Knights> of Feathermoon (a guild almost as old as World of Warcraft), we are an independent raid being built from the ground up. The creators and leaders of this raid are two players who have been raiding in WoW since the early days of the Burning Crusade. We are a friendly and fun group of people who seek to develop a solid raid team that will progress through Antorus, The Burning Throne and well into the next expansion pack. We are currently seeking 1 experienced tank, at least 2 healers, and both melee and ranged dps.
      THIS IS AN EAST COAST RAID. We will be running our raid on TUESDAY and FRIDAY nights at 6PM to 9PM Eastern time (That is 3PM to 6PM for Feathermoon's server time)
      Important notes:
      We will be focusing on Heroic Tomb of Sargeras to start with. Those who are already members of the raid are experienced with all encounters. This is not a guild raid, but we have abundant resources. Joining a guild will not be required (however, it is an option if you are interested). There are performance expectations for all roles, but these will not be unreasonable. Knowledge of your class is expected. Preparation for boss encounters is expected. Item level is not as important to us as performance and the ability to work effectively within a team environment. We are willing to support you if you are willing to apply equal effort. If you are interested in joining our team, please post here. If you are on the Feathermoon/Scarlet Crusade server, you may contact Keyblade or Bubskii directly in-game.
      Thank you very much.  
    • By kidglock34
      As the title says, I've finally rolled a Tank and opted for a class I've always wanted to play; the Druid. Coming from a Shaman and Paladin that has done a lot of both Resto and DPS I felt it is time to try the other side!
      I have never tanked before...I was going to queue up for my first ever dungeon run but chickened out. I don't want to make a mess of it first time out before talking to some of you that have been here before. I'm still VERY low level...hit 18 last night while questing. Basic gear but have money from other toons if needed for gear.
      My questions are...when did some of you start your first tanking experience? Is gear at that low level of any importance or is everything pretty forgiving your first few times out so you can get an idea of rotation and how things work? Anybody have a few wipes on their first time out? Any advice for my first time out?
      Appreciate the hell out of the help! Thanks in advance and hopefully tonight I can partition off some time to get my first dungeon run in! I'm back after playing through until Cataclysm so it has been fun seeing all the new things added...a 6 year hiatus is quite a long time!