wow What Would Bring You Back to the Game?

[Stan 5,020]

The Warcraft community over at r/wow is having a positive discussion about upcoming expansion features that would bring them back to the game. In this post, we voice some of the most popular opinions.

Many would welcome if the game made content from previous expansions relevant again in some way instead of being stuck in a single zone grinding daily quests. World of Warcraft has had many expansions and scaling old content to today's standards has huge potential.

Others would prefer optional "chores", as they "feel like missing out on progress and power" if they don't engage in endgame activities that provide endgame materials.

Among the most upvoted requests are "less time-consuming systems that do not require too much time".

Some players would like to see less time-gating in the game.

The introduction of cross-faction grouping is also a feature worth looking into.

Other popular requests include world quests everywhere, borrowed powers baked into specializations, Timewalking as a permanent feature, balance Mythic+ dungeons from all expansions, wider customization, making everything account-wide, and more.

What about you? Which feature(s) would you like to see in the next expansion?

[Teufel 331]

Personally, being an RPG oldfart, I'd like Class Halls relevancy back.

That kind of immersion was refreshing in Legion (even if I detest their take on the Warriors' one), campaigns made you feel like more than just your frame's color. Might've used less known followers though, the de-facto leader of the Pandaria serving the Grandmaster, or sending an effin Titan Watcher to do your quests is way overboard.

 And it might've fed into the cross-faction grouping narrtive, since the entire thing with Class orders were player characters removing themselves (mostly) from the faction conflict and focusing on the demons, eventually uniting as the armies of the Legionfall, while Sylvanas and Greymane bickered about some towers.

[Dejo93 984]

Pretty much all of these. Plus being an Enhancement shaman main, getting that Spec fixed. Maybe make it like it was during Legion?

[Nym85 72]

Let's build instead of destroying.

 

Revamp zones from the old world steadily. Add locations in the old world were each of the races of WoW is rebuilding after years of war and world-ending threats. Utilize the Garrison and Broken Isle building tech to allow region-wide unlocks of buildings for each of these new towns, populating the area around them with world quests dealing with local threats and gathering necessary resources. Make it worthwhile by giving people a large number of collectibles; could use recolors of heritage armor, unused mounts and pets and even some gear. Let people get to near-Heroic gear level slowly by doing whatever they want; Korthia does it's just shackled to crappy Korthia. Let us have a way to progress by choosing our own adventure and just make the speed match the level of the challenge.

 

In my dream option; add something akin to war mode which makes the open world far more dangerous and challenging and uses the massive number of old talents, spells, legendaries and set bonuses as talents available with that mode on (like war mode does). Then let people play in a challenging open world (that often requires some grouping to survive) and offer adequate rewards for the challenge. Utilize the entire map and content of the game!

 

Additionally (or alternatively), revamp Timewalking to be a permanent feature. Give some design time to the Cavern of Times to transform it into a pseudo city (with all the time walking vendors there) and create a long Timewalking rotation. Always have two expansions up at any moment, rotating them but letting each stay up for at least a couple of months. Then add heroic versions of TW raids so people who are bored of the current content (the many people who clear HC of current raid and don't have the skills, numbers or organization to run Mythic) can progress in the TW raid of those two expansions (or maybe even two raids per expansion; each xpac had at least two decent raids). Slowly add M+ versions of older dungeons. Include a Vanilla TW. Maybe even add back small pieces of content that were removed over time; Pandaria HC scenarios and Wrathion challenge, Wrath Undercity raid, things like that.

 

 

Also NO DAILY CHORES. Add a number of chores, they are needed to some extent but make them weekly and tie them to a capped currency. MoP did it perfectly you could do any number of things to cap your Valor; you could get it all raiding or you could just dip in multiple different tasks with even pet battles giving a bit of your weekly Valor. Plus the double speed on all alts once your main hit cap for the week was just excellent. Makes you want to play alts as well because the reward pace for them becomes so much faster.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Nym85

[Piromysl 2]

Since Blizzard now actually has a competition, which they have made themselves, they have to listen to the player's feedback.

There is a legitimate chance, we'll see some of those features in the future.

[Frackas 0]

I would have to agree with just about everything mentioned above. I would really love to see the old zones updated, not only graphically but with some added content, quests, etc. The one thing I have always clamored for is better utilization of ‘Achievement Points’. Yes, there are some solid rewards throughout but give us some form of tiered rewards. Like here’s a new transmog at 1000 points, here’s a new mount at 2000, etc. It would certainly keep me grinding out old achievements. 

[Migol 425]

I believe the number of "dead" raids is sad, IE raids that people only go to to farm transmogs/mounts.

Why not give literally everything the legion timewalking treatment and just say "everything is relevant content, pick something you'd like to raid.   We're going to keep adding raids but item levels are consistent across the board."     It would take an enormous amount of effort of course to re-balance some of the older trinkets and such, but I think the end result would be worth it.     It would also put less pressure on Blizzard in the long run to release raids in a rush as players would have...what, 50 or so raids to choose from for their weekly progression?

[Mishmish 65]

A lot of the reddit ideas mentioned are very good, will just highlight what I'd want more:

*in General*

-Cross faction. Really, its past time. 

-no "log or miss" systems. Torghast should have shipped like today, never with a reward system forcing you to grind it every week. Yes, some people can do it, but just don't force those who don't. The current iteration is alright. 

More solo goals. Im not a soloer, but its still nice to have some solo progression to chillax from groups. Torghast and mage tower could have catchup gear that actually streches to raid levels, just much slower then how mythic raiders or m+ will get it. 

*in PvP*

-Far less gating to be pvp competitive. Its fine if like the final 10% of power requires some grinding or rating, but 90% of it should be very easy and fast to aquire even for fresh accounts, pvp isn't about the grind game and it sucks feeling weak until you get to 2k gear and endless honor farming. 

-less reliance on burst and covenant buttons in arena. More sustained rot dmg options, especially for speccs designed for it like afflocks and spriests. The current meta for afflocks, the dot specc since vanilla, is trying for a one shot nuke. Why? 

For outdoors:

-more freestyle zones. Timeless isle was cool partly because every mob gave timeless coins. It eas up to you to decide how much and which way you farmed, and it was mostly irrelevant to endgame power.

Nazjatar had a ton of cool elites, but barely any reason to kill them other then rare dailies. Same for mechagon. Give us an (optional) reason to fight elites, not just gang up on named "rares". 

-bring back fun mechanics from elites. Not everyone needs to be a raid boss, but some cone attacks, and some more threatening ones like those chinese fire dragons from timeless isle add so much variety to grinds. 

This will also make those varied powerup items they started adding in bfa much more interesting because fights can actually require them. 

 

-more stuff to do in combat aside from rotation rotation. Be it cc, or spreading your dots, or survibability tools. 

 

 

 

 

[Darkzarupia 43]

Stop being woke would be a start

[Simplejakk 2]

Easy Changes Requiring Almost No Effort:

1. Real Timewalking raids - Some of the older content would need some new difficulties, like Molten Core. However, you could just create a Mythic instance and just scale numbers up instead of adding any new mechanics. Also, reducing the raid size to 20 from 40 could prove challenging to some degree. Allow all gear, legendaries, etc to be looted and scale up to current ilvl Mythic gear. Farming old raids would still require progression and farming for specific items/legendaries and would take time away from progressing on current content - that could be a fair trade and (let's be honest) only really matters for those that are competing in the world first race or for the first 200 or whatever in the Hall of Fame. Timewalking raids will also require old materials/gear/consumes/etc so players will be farming out in the world for these, creating life in several zones. You should also gate the Mythic versions of these raids behind the same tiers as the current expansion so that players can't burn through an entire expansion's old raids while the current tier is progressing. 

2. Change honor/conquest sourcing - Only allow players to acquire honor via World PvP, conquest via unranked play, and cosmetics/ilvl gating behind Rated PvP. This will make the world feel alive and will bring the "War" back to 'World of Warcraft'. Zones should always feel scary and threatening. Make honor only awarded from killing players that are on the same server as you - this will lead to a massive redistribution of server population, thus generating a ton of money for Blizzard via server transfers. 

3. War Mode changes - If War Mode is 'OFF', allow players to fly and quest until their heart's content but don't allow farming of any kind. If War Mode is 'ON', players should be restricted to ground mounts only and is also the only mode where farming materials is possible. farming materials should be a risk and should be frightening and scary; this will also reduce botting population and will encourage players to team up everywhere they go, especially if the only source of honor is World PvP. 

4. Invade Capital Cities - At the moment, the only reason to invade capital cities is to acquire 1x mount and never go back. These bosses should be on a weekly rotation as a world boss for the opposing faction and should drop random items from the current raid that's adjusted every tier. You could even award defenders a partial 1/2 towards an item.  

5. Class balancing - Implement an automatic system that checks talents used (across all classes/specs) and automatically increases/decreases talent strength. This will create an even class/spec distribution across all servers. If the majority of the player base is playing Boomkin, then individual Boomkin talents would be automatically nerfed proportionally to the population using it. Since nobody is playing Survival Hunter, the least used Survival Hunter talents would be buffed to a ridiculous degree (because everyone is playing Boomkin and not Survival) thus enticing countless players to swap to Survival Hunter because they'll probably spend the first few weeks 1-shotting things with these talents/abilities but class distribution will eventually balance out over time. This should help with composition toxicity in all forms of content. 

6. Change class "buffs" - Instead of giving several classes/specs specific passive raid buffs, replace them with a stacking raid buff that would increase damage/healing done by 1% for each unique spec being used for the raid encounter. 



Impractical but awesome changes that would require effort:

1. Give every class 4x roles - It would be really cool if every class could tank, heal, rdps and mdps. Imagine having your tanking hunter pet actually be your raid tank or allowing a warlock to raid heal by funneling health. Ranged rogues could dual wield crossbows and could play like a Diablo demon hunter. Shaman tanks could finally return and would actually work. 

2. Subclassing - As an alternative to offering 4x roles for every class, give players the option to fill each of these roles by choosing a second partial class to pull abilities from. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Simplejakk
minor adjustment

[Leafboi86 0]

one thing to add is an open world raid boss that actually require an organize raid to q for it. of course it must drop heroic raid or higher loot with mounts for interest. its just 1 thing but it will be 1 more thing to look forward to for content. mythic version will be a plus for ppl who cant commit to mythic raid and still be happy with mythic loot.

[CognateClockwork 0]

3 hours ago, Darkzarupia said:

Stop being woke would be a start

I'm afraid those days are over.  You might need to stick to Call of Duty.  

 

I would definitely echo what everyone said about making the old world relevant again, making Timewalking ongoing, and cross-faction grouping.  

[SpilledStars 60]

I want more small to medium things in "old" content to have positive side effects on "new" content.   Examples in mind:

"legendaries" from various past xpacs should be able to be runecarver'd upon and "become" current xpac level items of Power.  We busted our butts to make these living and real parts of our world and our character;  they shouldn't just become ilvl "so many years ago" that they can't be used ever.   BONUS IF THEY ALSO:  give us back the spiffypower it was tied to.  Those were always class fighting style relevant.

Hm, I am looking at a "holy relic" worldseed.  (Yes, I swear, that's really its name) I just wonder what one would be worth to the Night Fae, don't you?

My priest Legion Class Hall had Calia Menethil as a leader of troops.  She should recognize me when I get there, someday, right?  Man, she has been through a lot. 🙂

In general any items that were in the ancient packages "capable of expansion" should have ways to be expanded more, or beautifully converted to expanding other things. (think: benthics sold to boost anima.  icecrown deathly-gear sold for soul ash.  et cet)

Potentially amusing if tradeskill recipes can figure out how to mix and match materials between xpacs.   What if I make a classic/cata drink with BI/dal olives, hey, what if.

[SpilledStars 60]

and if it wasn't obvious from my post above: stop frying old gear to a crisp just because new gear exists.   If you wanna "turn off" the power in NORMAL content meh-ok-i-guess but PLEASE make it work in timewalking.

[Lestat777 9]

The aforementioned for starters. But the biggest draw, would be an option to change my Kul'tiran druid so that he's not fat when he heals (or any other reason I'm in human form). Let me change to thin Kul'tirans or the human model as a Wicker druid and I'd resub in an instant to be honest.

[Skysong 0]

I play alot of guild wars 2 and in that game i see a couple things wow can improve on

able to change what color your armor is regardless of what it is, or what class you are playing

ability to dye mounts!

all the beautiful transmog options! it doesn't matter what class you are playing, you can wear any outfit you want, as long as you have purchased it. again you can alter the colors of each outfit

a fairly decent instant healing ability on EVERY class and spec

and things i personally miss/ would like to see

tier sets. yes i know, they are bringing SOME tier sets back for the last installment of shadowlands. but i miss the UNIQUE tier sets, the ones that look like that class would wear it, and each one looks different from the other classes. Not all that basically look almost identical

volley as an actual spell for hunters that use bows/crossbows (yes i know i'm biased.)

more unique druid forms, cats, bears, yes even more moonkin looks! Moonkins need more love. I also miss the way moonkins played pre-shadowlands. The way they play now is too confusing.

[Arcling 877]

9 hours ago, Teufel said:

Personally, being an RPG oldfart, I'd like Class Halls relevancy back.

That would have been pretty cool. I imagine it requires reworking some of that stuff, since most halls were tied to Broken Isles way too much. Perhaps different locations for some, remodeling, updating npc's for others. Not sure though what is the status of these Orders in lore, most of them might have ceased to exist with BfA or consist only of neutral and non-aligned characters. At least Cenarion Circle and Earthen Ring have continued to exist under Magni, forming Champions of Azeroth. I'm also in favor of full faction merge, except for stuff like cosmetics and quests, these would remain tied to specific races.

[Arckie 0]

11 hours ago, Stan said:

The Warcraft community over at r/wow is having a positive discussion about upcoming expansion features that would bring them back to the game. In this post, we voice some of the most popular opinions.

Many would welcome if the game made content from previous expansions relevant again in some way instead of being stuck in a single zone grinding daily quests. World of Warcraft has had many expansions and scaling old content to today's standards has huge potential.

Others would prefer optional "chores", as they "feel like missing out on progress and power" if they don't engage in endgame activities that provide endgame materials.

Among the most upvoted requests are "less time-consuming systems that do not require too much time".

Some players would like to see less time-gating in the game.

The introduction of cross-faction grouping is also a feature worth looking into.

Other popular requests include world quests everywhere, borrowed powers baked into specializations, Timewalking as a permanent feature, balance Mythic+ dungeons from all expansions, wider customization, making everything account-wide, and more.

What about you? Which feature(s) would you like to see in the next expansion?

 

[Arckie 0]

Get rid of the out-of-control burst damage that classes now have in pvp. Rounds last 10 seconds and they are over, and if you don't play one if these classes, you are at a huge disadvantage. "Just roll a toon that is one of these flavor-of-the-month classes" you say? I have no time, and even if I did, the ROI is far too low. I love WoW and have since vanilla, but paying cash for something that gives sub-standard gear and player experience if you are a once-or-twice-a-week player won't work in today's market. This opinion applies to the game as a whole - you no longer have a monopoly, and WoW must adjust quickly, or wither/bleed subscriptions to a point of insolvency. Thank you for the opportunity to share my thoughts/opinions.

[Dyzfunktional 0]

WoW has felt less and less like an MMORPG that it was intended as, and more akin to an 🤢E-Sports MMO🤮. Rushing to the endgame, only to deal with crappy time-gating releases and horrible RNG, while managing to put in meaningless and empty daily "chores" that reward anything of sustenance that we won't lose next xpac, or sometimes even next patch. (Artifact Power/Azerite and certain currencies to be accurate.) I still pop in periodically but have really just lost hope and faith in Blizzard's ability to deliver anything fun to us as the community. I would really LOVE to see a return to the RPG elements that made WoW the leader in MMO's that it was for so long.

 

Give Me Back My ID, PLEASE;

Many folks seem to trash-talk or hate on the old mechanics, hunters and locks having to carry a separate bag for their ammo, hunter pet mini-game of keeping them happy or risk loosing them, classes like druid needing to keep reagents for certain abilities like revive, yadda-yadda & etc. Now while some of those  admittingly could be potentially aggravating, they aren't without their merits, and a good base to expand and improve upon.

1. Bring back the Hunter pet interaction, where you don't necessarily loose your pet if it ends up hating you, whether being from dying to much or just plain ignoring them, but the happiness mechanic that made them do 75%-125% damage is cool. Make it a simple pet button that you pet them, or feed them, or whatever in exchange for that buff. With BM's having 2 pets, double the work, but it's a thought.
2. A long while back, Blizz brought forth the idea of class items/appearances, like paladins having a holy book or relic, hunters with quivers, and other examples. I believe it was scrapped in favor of some other content, but I think things like that would be wonderful for the class identity/fantasy. We used to have 3 slots below for our equipables. Warriors had spots for sword & board or dual-wielding while also having a ranged for pulling. Paladins & druids has relic slots, and casters had wand slots. Now, I'm not saying we need that exact thing back, however, those did provide an extra item to chase, and you could easily(okay, maybe not as easy as a light switch) bring those back in the form of class items. Even if they were purely cosmetic, it would just add to the RPG element that WoW is supposed to have.
3. And since we're talking about Class fantasy, How bout some class quests!?!?!?! How cool was it back in the day to have to go do specific quests for your class to obtain new abilities? Druid form class quests are a perfect example, Hunters having to be trained to tame pets is another. Rogues having to earn and learn the poison skill and recipes?! Like really, that's commitment right there to class fantasy and I think we need that back.

As I was reading above, I saw a lot of the class/order hall references, or desire for something akin to those. I wouldn't mind that either. Dedicated places for classes to gather that aren't just expansion based. Seeing as we already have them in legion, it's unlikely to see them again, but it's a nice thought too.

 

Make Professions Great Again;

The last few expansions, I've felt as if professions have taken a HUGE backseat regarding there importance within the world. Mostly they seem to feel almost as meaningless as the 'borrowed power' we've been getting since Legion. Low-tier items or leveling items are for everyone, that you easily outgrow, and as you progress, they just become items solely for your own use, locked behind more time-gated experiences. BFA had some cool ideas with the tools being added, but they also hindered us, It made being able to help your friends and guildmates like we used to be able too. Farming mats and crafting to sell on the auction house also took a dive, which led to world drops from raid trash or world bosses to inflate in prices. I think this is also a huge reason why towards the end of BFA we had folks scouring the professions for the most cost effective item to craft and vendor to make gold. (It was goblin tailors making pantaloons and vendoring if I remember right) Don't get me wrong, I didn't mind the coin and at that point there wasn't much to do, and I was just really trying to get the bronta for the mobile auction which I still missed out on, but I honestly feel if professions played a more important role like they used to in reference towards endgame/raids, that could drive the economy forward, towards a more balanced player-driven economy, and less exploits, and we'd be able to help our friends and clanmates again.

 

Give Us Choices or Give Us Death!

Harking back to the RPG elements, The old talent system vs new talent system debate is as old as time. Many argue it gave you all the choices in the world, while others say the two are identical peas in a pod, with the "illusion" of options due to only having 1-2 viable builds per tree. I honestly don't care for the current talent tree, I liked the old school better, it just felt more RPG-rooted.

1. Bring us a new talent system, something akin to the hold, or a hybrid of the old and new. Give us multiple options or builds that just feel good, and aren't rooted in needing 'X-item' to preform with that build, ESPECIALLY IF THAT ITEM IS RNG BASED! Vanilla's old tree had really cool options that enhanced many different aspects of gameplay. Things that could help in world content & raids/dungeons. Things that weren't OP or overtuned but also genuinely helped smooth things out.
2. The hybrid builds and cross specs that worked with one another would be nice to see again. Now I know ol' Ion has his heart set on the segregation of specs within the classes, but I genuinely miss being a predominantly feral druid while taking aspects from the other spec trees to improve my output, but most importantly, I MISS THE CHOICE TO DO SO. 
3. To Min-Max or Not Min-Max, 'Tis the question; I feel if Blizz was to revisit the old talent tree, and hit the drawing board for something new, they could easily come up with a happy middle ground for everyone. An actual tree that you could put points into, and you yourself could choose to build this extremely insane, Min-Maxed. D***-Swinging build, or you could choose to build something that works for yourself. Maybe you aren't a Mythic Raider or +25 Key Runner. Maybe you just enjoy the world. Maybe you just want to be a farmer/crafter and want a build that makes that more efficient. Maybe you're an RP'er(Do ya'll still exist?! If so, right the *filtered* on!), and your build is something completely ridiculous because you want it to be.

All I'm trying to say, is we need choices back. Since Cata's rework of the talents & Legions intro idea of 'borrowed power', and classes lost abilities, only to have them given back locked behind AP grinds, We need more, we need better from Blizz. Every Xpac seems to take more from us than it actually gives. We lose an ability but gain some really nifty super power for 2 1/2 years, then we lose that too. Just bring back choices, give the player base back some sort of control over their characters.

 

Will the Real Azeroth, Please Stand Up;

(I was torn between that and "Forgot About Azeroth/Dre pun, but meh xD.) I saw above so many speaking for content back in Azeroth, and I 1000000000000000% agree. It's been neglected since Cata and the sundering. We've just been given new zones, new worlds, she was stabbed, and *filtered* even a new damn timeline!!! There's been moments I've explained the story so far to friends who left after MoP, and it just sounds like a horrible satire version of the MCU multiverse. While I understand only so much can be done within zones that have been in the game since launch, I think there's still potential there.

1. Zone revamping. When BFA brought Warfronts, and an updated Arathi Highlands, and then Darkshore there was mention of bringing those new textures and life to other zones. I'm not sure if the whole idea was scrapped or if they were only intending to do so with zones that had war fronts, but regardless of the idea origin, BRING IT HOME TO EVERY ZONE! From the barrens to plaguelands, treat 'em like pokemon and revamp 'em all.
2. Speaking of plaguelands, there are many zones who were used for minor story plots or simple taxi/delivery points and forgotten. It seems like those are perfect for content to be created and used there. 
3. Someone above said rebuild, show us zones being rebuilt after decades of war. 100% agree, Lordaeron is a perfect example. Forsaken being free of Sylvie's corrupt B.S, or *filtered* it, give it back to the Alliance and let the forsaken find a new home moving forward, just like Thrall had to do with the horde. But plenty of other zones, cities, and small villages should be rebuilt or even founded. Perfect template from what WoD had with our garrisons, players can be tasked with assisting some new places being built (we don't need to decide what's actually built) but we help, be it resource gathering or defending during construction, you could even make them world events!

Piggy Backing off that last point, it's been beaten like a red-headed step child, but PLAYER HOUSING. Yes, everyone hated garrisons, and housing will never happen. Guild halls won't either, because we got class halls in legion, bla bla bla.... Player housing could (and should) be 1000% optional. There's so much room to expand there for Blizz. Instanced housing, can be tied to professions, hell they could even do micro-transactions for certain purely cosmetic aesthetics and most players wouldn't mind shelling a few bucks for some primo styles. But it ties back in to the above section of choices, and player options for the world. Maybe you've been playing WoW since it's inception in 2004 and the last 17 years, 1 month, & 13 days you're tired vet who just wants to sit back and relax. Maybe you just picked it up during the scandal and you liked elements from FF14 and want to see that here. Regardless, I feel it's a missed oppurtunity from Blizz that could help smooth over some rougher edges the game has.

 

I could go on all damn day about changes I'd love to see. Better & more meaningful story plots, less RNG drops from crappy weeklies, A better gear customization system more akin to GW2/FF14 with dyes and colors, Bringing back some old tier sets with updated models(pally tier 2 set in HoTS!!!), revisiting guild perks/experience/unlocks, and better bot/scammer security. But I'll stop there for the time. If ya made it this far, thanks for humoring an old fart and listening to his opinions.

Much Love & Respect y'all.💥

[Devylknyght 83]

Find a way to PROPERLY reconcile the Horde and the Sylvanas loyalists OR create a 3rd playable faction led by Sylvanas and allow at least all Horde playable races to join it (obviously won't happen).

[Arcling 877]

32 minutes ago, Devylknyght said:

the Sylvanas loyalists

Who? They don't exist anymore. Don't know if you saw what happens to Sylvanas in 9.2, but this is impossible, Sylvanas wasn't her own person back then, she didn't even earn any leadership position. She doesn't even have those goals anymore, as these were, more or less Jailer's goals. Only after regaining missing part of her soul, she is complete now and also quite a different person.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Arcling

[Devylknyght 83]

11 minutes ago, Arcling said:

Who? They don't exist anymore. Don't know if you saw what happens to Sylvanas in 9.2, but this is impossible, Sylvanas wasn't her own person back then, current "complete" Sylvanas hates what she was doing. No one would follow her anyway, this Sylvanas didn't earn any leadership position. She doesn't even have those goals anymore, as these were, more or less Jailer's goals.

Me. And others like me. We still exist, even if a lot of us aren't playing. What happened, still happened, even if there is new context to it now. Finding a way to properly reconcile the issues you just stated is exactly what I was saying. Just leaving it the way you stated it "The players who aligned with Sylvanas in BFA were dumb or evil pawns of the Jailer and don't exist anymore, or are just shoehorned into forgiveness and can keep playing" is not good in my opinion and a major reason why I have no emotional desire to start up playing again. 

HOW they "properly" reconcile the issue would obviously require some mental gymnastics and/or retcons (which we all know Blizz is very familiar with both). So I would be interested to see what the logic would become. But IMO just ignoring it and moving on is worse than addressing it.

[Arcling 877]

12 minutes ago, Devylknyght said:

Me. And others like me. We still exist, even if a lot of us aren't playing. What happened, still happened, even if there is new context to it now. Finding a way to properly reconcile the issues you just stated is exactly what I was saying. Just leaving it the way you stated it "The players who aligned with Sylvanas in BFA were dumb or evil pawns of the Jailer and don't exist anymore, or are just shoehorned into forgiveness and can keep playing" is not good in my opinion and a major reason why I have no emotional desire to start up playing again. 

This was in older lore, so reconciling it now is impossible, unless "complete" Sylvanas would have to become evil again for some reason, which sounds even worse than what they've been doing. I understand how some players might be disappointed, but this loyalist faction ceased to exist with the end of BfA, there were only Mawsworm as her loyalists. Those who followed her to Shadowlands from Azeroth were just some Banshees and Val'kyr. Most of them are either dead now or serving the Jailer. Yeah, pawns of the Jailer it is, I don't see how they could reverse it all in a good way, as incomplete Sylvanas actually never had those goals like preserving Forsaken or leading some loyalist faction. So there isn't even any appeal to it, as her loyalists were basically just some disposable pawns. 

[Devylknyght 83]

1 minute ago, Arcling said:

This was in older lore, so reconciling it now is impossible, unless "complete" Sylvanas would have to become evil again for some reason, which sounds even worse than what they've been doing. I understand how some players might be disappointed, but this loyalist faction ceased to exist with the end of BfA, there were only Mawsworm as her loyalists. Those who followed her to Shadowlands from Azeroth were just some Banshees and Val'kyr. Most of them are either dead now or serving the Jailer. Yeah, pawns of the Jailer it is, I don't see how they could reverse it all in a good way, as incomplete Sylvanas actually never had those goals like preserving Forsaken or leading some loyalist faction. So there isn't even any appeal to it, as her loyalists were basically just some disposable pawns. 

Well if that's Blizz's plan for the situation (Looks likely based on all statements to date), then it makes for a good time for me to stop playing/never come back. (on top of all of the other issues)