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Damien

Protection Paladin 6.2

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In terms of value, Stamina is listed as equal to mastery. However you should never ever stack it, since you get enough as it is from gear. Stamina just makes your healthbar look more consistent while taking the same damage. It's recommended to just not gem it, you should just happen to get it when you get socket bonuses/upgrades.

 

When comparing gear of different item levels, often times it's best to just ignore the stamina as well, though in cases where the upgrade is large (say +40 ilvls) then you will want to go with the stamina to help your healers keep you from spiking (except if its a matter of 4set, keep your 4sets if youre using Eternal Flame).

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You are missing Stamina in stat priority chart.

 

Stamina is discussed in the stats page, but due to its nature, it's really not possible to just put it into the priority list. It doesn't matter much anyway, because as Fouton says, you shouldn't be actively gearing for it in any way. The only exception is some gimmicky fight or something like this, but that's very unlikely.

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Just putting my thoughts out there... isn't haste still an insanely highly recommended stat ? considering that it increases your holy power regenaration and therefore makes you able to keep up wow_icon_ability_paladin_shieldofvengean Shield of the Righteous ALOT more... on my paladin i am going currently as much haste as i possibly can, i have around 52% haste and i am able to keep an uptime on wow_icon_ability_paladin_shieldofvengean Shield of the Righteous about 80% or more of the intire fight (note that i also have wow_icon_spell_holy_divinepurpose.jpg Divine Purpose) but i do understand that ofc it is recommended to keep a balance of some kind between mastery and haste in order to increase the dmg reduction of the spell itself.. this is atleast what i am doing, and it is working like a charm, able to solotank close to everything, and dont need a healer for when im doing towers on galakras on HC (old normal)

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Just putting my thoughts out there... isn't haste still an insanely highly recommended stat ? considering that it increases your holy power regenaration and therefore makes you able to keep up wow_icon_ability_paladin_shieldofvengean Shield of the Righteous ALOT more... on my paladin i am going currently as much haste as i possibly can, i have around 52% haste and i am able to keep an uptime on wow_icon_ability_paladin_shieldofvengean Shield of the Righteous about 80% or more of the intire fight (note that i also have wow_icon_spell_holy_divinepurpose.jpg Divine Purpose) but i do understand that ofc it is recommended to keep a balance of some kind between mastery and haste in order to increase the dmg reduction of the spell itself.. this is atleast what i am doing, and it is working like a charm, able to solotank close to everything, and dont need a healer for when im doing towers on galakras on HC (old normal)

This kind of thing depends a lot on your tanking style, and the environment in which you are in. For example, why I would say that it is impressive that you can solo-tank the towers without needing any healers, I'd ask why you would ever need to do that to begin with, since you have healers in the raid.

 

The guides we write are intended to be of use to characters progressing on difficult content. Not the most cutting edge of progression, because that's really where the innovation happens, but not farming old content either, because that's where you can get away with a lot.

 

So, I'm confident to say that if you were to be doing the same fight on Mythic, or progressing on a boss in the upcoming Highmaul, you'd find that Mastery would help you more.

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Hi,

 

I am playing a paladin protection / retribution

 

I am a little bit confused by your guide and the 6.0.2 patch note. (it will not be the first time with Blizzard but...)

 

So patch notes says:

 

Secondary Stat Attunements

A new concept that we’re introducing is each specialization having an attunement to a particular secondary stat. These take the form of a passive ability that grants a 5% increase to the amount of a specific secondary stat gained. This provides a good starting point for where to focus your secondary stats. Usually, it will be your highest throughput stat (not counting Spirit for Healers, and Bonus Armor for Tanks, which is an optimal secondary stat in most cases). There are exceptions, and raw throughput may not even be the biggest concern in some situations. Treat this as a guideline, not a rule, about which secondary stat to favor.

 

  • All specializations now receive a 5% bonus to specific secondary stat bonuses received from all sources. This bonus is granted through new passive abilities or additional effects added to existing passive abilities.
  • [... other classes ...]
  • Paladin
    • Holy: Critical Strike
    • Protection: Haste
    • Retribution: Mastery

 

 

and in your guide you says that Mastery is top priority:

 

 

The stat priority for Protections Paladins is as follows:

  1. Mastery;
  2. Bonus Armor;
  3. Versatility;
  4. Haste to 50%;
  5. Critical Strike;
  6. Multistrike.

 

is everything ok and all right?

 

Do we have to prioritise Haste up to 50% and then Mastery (for enchant and gems) or prioritise Mastery?

 

Thanks

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This kind of thing depends a lot on your tanking style, and the environment in which you are in. For example, why I would say that it is impressive that you can solo-tank the towers without needing any healers, I'd ask why you would ever need to do that to begin with, since you have healers in the raid.

 

The guides we write are intended to be of use to characters progressing on difficult content. Not the most cutting edge of progression, because that's really where the innovation happens, but not farming old content either, because that's where you can get away with a lot.

 

So, I'm confident to say that if you were to be doing the same fight on Mythic, or progressing on a boss in the upcoming Highmaul, you'd find that Mastery would help you more.

i do see your point, why is it needed to go without healer in the towers when there is a healer for it anyways, and about the part were i might find mastery more valueable in progress runs, again, i do see your points but isn't it kinda useless to go mastery without haste? mastery increases your block chance and increase the damage reduction value on  wow_icon_ability_paladin_shieldofvengean Shield of the Righteous, but you cant block more than 30% of the incoming dmg, no matter how much mastery you have. and without haste your uptime on holy power will be very low, and therefore you wont have  wow_icon_ability_paladin_shieldofvengean Shield of the Righteous up very much of the fight.. so basicly im just wondering if it wouldn't be more valueable to go for 50% haste before you start going for mastery?

Edited by Pixi
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While haste is an extremely useful stat, theory crafters have shown through sims and with direct math that mastery will help more. The thing to note about mastery is that it helps in multiple ways, rather than just Shield of the Righteous, and often times a healthy balance of both haste and mastery will be useful. Since a balance is nice, and haste comes easier, stacking Mastery will keep them evened out in value. A direct-math standpoint is that you reduce the most damage when your shield of the righteous damage reduction% equals your uptime %.

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Guest Truls

I'm curious, Guarded by the Light has disappeared from our spellbooks, did something else take it's place?

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Hi,

 

I am playing a paladin protection / retribution

 

I am a little bit confused by your guide and the 6.0.2 patch note. (it will not be the first time with Blizzard but...)

 

So patch notes says:

 

 

and in your guide you says that Mastery is top priority:

 

 

is everything ok and all right?

 

Do we have to prioritise Haste up to 50% and then Mastery (for enchant and gems) or prioritise Mastery?

 

Thanks

 

The stats priority should be fine as listed on the website at the moment. Prioritise Mastery. Haste to 50% merely indicates that it's of value to you (and more so than Critical Strike) until that point, after which it is not.

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Guest Yridaa

Tier 2:

 

"The talent choice here is largely irrelevant, and it will not impact your performance in any way"

 

 

I beg to differ:

 

First of Justice allows for some reasonably/very powerful defensive cooldown;

 

 

Spoils:

 

Using it just when Kor'thik Warcaller's spell_shadow_unholyfrenzy.jpgEnrages, especially in Mythic.

 

 

Amalgamation of Corruption:

 

Using it when two Manifestation of Corruption's spawn and the other tank is phased. This allows you to taunt 1 manifestation and stun the other until the taunt comes off CD.

 

 

Galakras:

 

Interrupting  Dragonmaw Bonecrusher's ability_ghoulfrenzy.jpgFracture, interrupting Dragonmaw Tidal Shaman's spell_nature_healingwavegreater.jpgChain Heal.

 

 

General Nazgrim:

 

Stunning any add.

 

 

Malkorok Mythic:

 

Taunting the Living Corruption, and applying the stun when it is between melee and ranged. This way no one gets the ability_warlock_soulswap.jpgLanguish debuff.

 

 

Siegecrafter Blackfuse:

 

Stunning Crawler Mines

 

 

Paragons of the Klaxxi:

 

Stunning almost all adds

 

 

Garrosh:

 

Stunning players afflicted by ability_garrosh_touch_of_yshaarj.jpgTouch of Y'Shaarj before it gets Empowered.

 

 

 

 

The other Tier two abilities don't come close towards the utility and defensive CD that the Fist of Justice has.

 

 

I've been using Icy-Veins for years but I almost always put really big question marks on some of your decisions. I guess I sound like an ass with this criticism, but I honestly feel that sometimes you could use a different point of view on some of your choices.

 

That said though, I know a lot of you put tonnes of effort into the site and to make it easier for everyone. I value the craftsmanship that went into it for years.

 

 

I wish you could be a bit more elaborate on some of the choices made, and I wished I bit the bullet and came with criticism sooner.

 

 

There's another great example I would like to put up, but am very interested to see if you can find out for yourself (Yourselves?). If you like to be challenged, try to find out why I strongly disagree with your opinion of your Tier 6 Choices. The more thought you put into it the more elaborate I'll be and see if I can change your opinion.

 

Thrill of discussions.

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Tier 2:

 

"The talent choice here is largely irrelevant, and it will not impact your performance in any way"

 

 

I beg to differ:

 

First of Justice allows for some reasonably/very powerful defensive cooldown;

 

 

Spoils:

 

Using it just when Kor'thik Warcaller's spell_shadow_unholyfrenzy.jpgEnrages, especially in Mythic.

 

 

Amalgamation of Corruption:

 

Using it when two Manifestation of Corruption's spawn and the other tank is phased. This allows you to taunt 1 manifestation and stun the other until the taunt comes off CD.

 

 

Galakras:

 

Interrupting  Dragonmaw Bonecrusher's ability_ghoulfrenzy.jpgFracture, interrupting Dragonmaw Tidal Shaman's spell_nature_healingwavegreater.jpgChain Heal.

 

 

General Nazgrim:

 

Stunning any add.

 

 

Malkorok Mythic:

 

Taunting the Living Corruption, and applying the stun when it is between melee and ranged. This way no one gets the ability_warlock_soulswap.jpgLanguish debuff.

 

 

Siegecrafter Blackfuse:

 

Stunning Crawler Mines

 

 

Paragons of the Klaxxi:

 

Stunning almost all adds

 

 

Garrosh:

 

Stunning players afflicted by ability_garrosh_touch_of_yshaarj.jpgTouch of Y'Shaarj before it gets Empowered.

 

 

 

 

The other Tier two abilities don't come close towards the utility and defensive CD that the Fist of Justice has.

 

 

I've been using Icy-Veins for years but I almost always put really big question marks on some of your decisions. I guess I sound like an ass with this criticism, but I honestly feel that sometimes you could use a different point of view on some of your choices.

 

That said though, I know a lot of you put tonnes of effort into the site and to make it easier for everyone. I value the craftsmanship that went into it for years.

 

 

I wish you could be a bit more elaborate on some of the choices made, and I wished I bit the bullet and came with criticism sooner.

 

 

There's another great example I would like to put up, but am very interested to see if you can find out for yourself (Yourselves?). If you like to be challenged, try to find out why I strongly disagree with your opinion of your Tier 6 Choices. The more thought you put into it the more elaborate I'll be and see if I can change your opinion.

 

Thrill of discussions.

 

You are right. We've historically treated the talents that give you a stun (or improve it) as simply CC (for example Mighty Bash for Guardian Druids), but it is true that you can use them quite well to mitigate add damage. We'll amend the guide to make a note of the usefulness of these talents.

 

As for tier 6 talents, I can't quite say what your gripe might be. The discussion we have there is fairly open-ended. Perhaps you disagree with the idea that the greater number of global cooldowns spent on Holy Prism is a disadvantage (since you can also use it "when you need it")?

 

thanks a lot Vlad and Fouton

 

You are very welcome.

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Bring the Tier 6 discussion to the paladin forums and I'll gladly put out a good debate :) The basics of it though is: Execution sentence is single target king, lights hammer is AoE burst king, holy prism is add control king. Overall prism takes away from mitigation slightly and sims worst, but can have an amazing utility to picking up adds. It's a matter of using it for the right fight.

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Guest Beergo99les

Man i've been reading tanking feedback for WoD all night. It's 5 am and I have to go to work, i'm that dedicated to this. My guild needs me, my friends need me. When I look at the boss fights of the first raid, I see heavy tank single target damage. With dots and having to swap. I'm just trying to figure out which class can boss tank the best and i'm not really sure because over 3 hours of reading, I just can't pick. I'm noticing a "it's balanced" vibe for this expansion.

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Guest Guvante

Should Haste be avoided or treated as secondary to Mastery/Bonus Armor? It appears that the value and rarity of Bonus Armor makes it first and Mastery great due to its various effects, but the stat listing puts Haste as dead last yet half the points and discussions talk about haste as being just below Mastery in effectiveness.

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Should Haste be avoided or treated as secondary to Mastery/Bonus Armor? It appears that the value and rarity of Bonus Armor makes it first and Mastery great due to its various effects, but the stat listing puts Haste as dead last yet half the points and discussions talk about haste as being just below Mastery in effectiveness.

You should always follow the actual priority of stats (so, that puts Haste dead last). The order of the paragraphs describing the stats is not an indication of the value of those stats :)

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Guest Kirta

I dont see sanctity of battle passive on my friends paladin.Did they remove it ?

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Guest Joe

The Rotation section of the Prot guide needs some updating. It says that SotR is useless against magic damage, which is no longer true if you take Holy Shield at level 100. 

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I dont see sanctity of battle passive on my friends paladin.Did they remove it ?

It still exists, it just doesn't show up in the spell book anymore.

 

The Rotation section of the Prot guide needs some updating. It says that SotR is useless against magic damage, which is no longer true if you take Holy Shield at level 100. 

Thank you. I will look into this now.

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Guest DT-

And what profit do you get from SotR against magic dmg with holy shield? Holy shield adds you an ability to block spells, but block value not affected by SotR.

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And what profit do you get from SotR against magic dmg with holy shield? Holy shield adds you an ability to block spells, but block value not affected by SotR.

That's right, indeed!

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Guest Allelya

The tool tip information that appears when hovering over your link for Sanctified Wrath is not the same as what I am seeing live, in-game when I look at my talents. 

 

In-game, mine says the following: Your Holy Wrath now generates 1 Holy Power, and deals 100% additional damage. 

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Guest Jordan

Any thoughts on the worth of Kyb's Foolish Perseverance? Is the 594 stam worth it? Or is it better to focus trinkets with mastery, bonus armor or vers?

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      4 days running now, we have a new batch of 8.3 hotfixes including a couple of changes to the N'Zoth encounter, more corrupted item tweaks, no more cloaks from emissary caches and more. We also get one of the announced Classic AV changes with honorless targets no longer being lootable.
      January 24 (source)
      Dungeons and Raids
      N’Zoth, the Corruptor Fixed a bug where Azeroth's Radiance could shorten its channel duration without the player casting or moving. Azeroth's Radiance now resets its cooldown on a wipe and at the start of the encounter. Developers’ note: This quality-of-life change should dispel confusion about needing to wait for the cooldown to clear before a subsequent attempt. Horrific Visions Fixed an issue wherein Emergency Cranial Defibrillation didn't heal the player while under the effects of Inquisitor Darkspeak's Convert. Items and Rewards
      Emissary equipment caches no longer reward cloaks during Battle for Azeroth Season 4. The power of the following trinkets from Ny’alotha, the Waking City have been increased by around 10%: Vita-Charged Titanshard , Void-Twisted Titanshard , Humming Black Dragonscale , and Manifesto of Madness . The damage absorb effect of the Void-Twisted Titanshard will now be consumed after most standard damage absorb effects. Corrupted Items Glimpse of Clarity will no longer interact with the Warlock ability Command Demon , or the Hunter ability Command Pet . Lash of the Void Lash of the Void ’s (Corruption Effect) damage now scales with the item level of Unguent Caress , instead of the character's Attack Power. Fixed a bug which caused Lash of the Void to trigger more often than intended, but it still strikes all targets in a cone in front of the user. Heart of Azeroth Corrected several issues with Destruction Warlocks using Vision of Perfection either not getting an Infernal to spawn on their target, or a real summoned Infernal to incorrectly have the lowered Vision of Perfection duration applied to it. WoW Classic
      Players in Alterac Valley with the Honorless Target buff will no longer grant loot.
      Previous hotfixes:
      January 23rd January 22nd January 21st January 17th
    • By Starym
      The big hotfix lists continue today as we're in day 3 of the streak. We have raid fixes for the final two bosses of Ny'alotha, focusing on some legendary cloak issues and N'Zoth sanity issues, corrupted item damage now scales with their item level instead of a players attack or spell power, a Vulpera racial fix and more!

      The Lash of the Void corrupted item tweak they announced earlier isn't listed here with the the others though, so it's unclear if the hotfix isn't in the game or it was just not added to these notes.
      January 23 (source)
      Allied Races
      Vulperas’ Bag of Tricks (racial) cooldown is now correctly modified by haste. Creatures and NPCs
      Lorewalker Cho should once again be visible to all players in Vale of Eternal Blossoms. Dungeons and Raids
      Operation: Mechagon In Mechagon Junkyard and Mechagon Workshop on Mythic Keystone difficulties, end-of-run chests now award Engine of Mecha-Perfection, or Blueprint: Perfectly Timed Differential, or Progression Sprockets for players’ Vision of Perfection (Essence). Ny'alotha, the Waking City Carapace of N’Zoth Resolved an issue where using Ashjra'kamas, Shroud of Resolve while in the Den of Transfusion may fail to bring players to Wrathion's side. Resolved an issue where using Ashjra'kamas, Shroud of Resolve could remove some player buffs when used. Resolved an issue where Ashjra'kamas, Shroud of Resolve's cooldown was not being reset upon the encounter starting. Reduced the health of Mycelial Cysts by 30%. N’Zoth the Corruptor Dispelling corrupted mind should not drain sanity ever, and letting it expire naturally should. Horrific Visions
      Fixed an issue where players on the quest “Reconstructing ‘Fear and Flesh’” who skipped all Corrupted Area objectives and completed a Lost Area objective first would not get 1 of their 2 Torn Page of "Fear and Flesh" for that run. Items and Rewards
      Corrupted Items Damage dealt by Infinite Stars, Twisted Appendages, and Gushing Wound (Corrupted Effects) is now based on the item level of a Corrupted item, rather than scaling dynamically with Attack Power and Spell Power. Developers’ note: Previously the damage dealt by these powers was modified by Attack Power and Spell Power, which meant that certain specialization abilities or random bonuses could cause drastic swings in their effectiveness. Infinite Stars in particular was too strong against single targets as a result of this and other factors. This change also adjusts Infinite Stars base damage accordingly, as the scaling method was one of the primary factors behind some of the extreme outliers we saw in our logs and from player feedback. Our goal with this change and other adjustments to Corruption powers is to improve parity in the effectiveness per point of Corruption of the different bonuses available on Visions of N’Zoth items. Grand Delusions ’ (Corrupted Effect) summoned entity no longer despawns when its owner is crowd controlled by enemy players. Fixed a bug that allowed the Lurking Schemer's Band a small chance at rolling a socket in addition to its baseline socket. Corrupted Gladiator's Spite now has a distinct visual difference between hostile corruption pools and allied corruption pools. Humming Black Dragonscale ’s visual effect should no longer break some animations and will now appear as intended when mounted. Quests
      Dying during “Waking a Dreamer ” can cause players to be unable to see Goldrinn and turn in the quest. While D.I.S.C.O. may be fun for some, dancing is now prohibited within the vicinity of the Chamber of Heart teleporter. Rugged Hyena Pelts now drop from all hyenas in Uldum as well as Amathet Hunters. Players with the Skinning skill will still be able to skin the hyenas for a guaranteed pelt, in addition to any that drop.

      Previous hotfixes:
      January 22nd January 21st January 17th
    • By Stan
      The damage done by Infinite Stars, Twisted Appendages, and Gushing Wound will be based on the item level of the Corrupted Item instead of scaling dynamically with Attack Power and Spell Power. Lash of the Void damage received the same treatment and now procs less often than it used to.
      You can find out more details in today's hotfixes.
      Blizzard (Source)
      With a hotfix that is now live on all realms, we’ve adjusted the damage done by several Corruption Effects:
      Damage dealt by Infinite Stars, Twisted Appendages, and Gushing Wound is now based on the item level of the Corrupted item. This previously scaled dynamically with Attack Power and Spell Power. Lash of the Void damage is now based on the item level of the Corrupted Item, and now procs less often than before. Previously the damage dealt by these powers was modified by Attack Power and Spell Power, which meant that certain specialization abilities or random bonuses could cause drastic swings in their effectiveness. Infinite Stars in particular was too strong against single targets as a result of this and other factors.
      This change also adjusts Infinite Stars base damage accordingly, as the scaling method was one of the primary factors behind some of the extreme outliers we saw in our logs and from player feedback. Our goal with this change and other adjustments to Corruption powers is to improve parity in the effectiveness per point of Corruption of the different bonuses available on Visions of N’Zoth items.
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