Damien

Protection Paladin 6.2

71 posts in this topic

This thread is for comments about our Protection Paladin guide.

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In terms of value, Stamina is listed as equal to mastery. However you should never ever stack it, since you get enough as it is from gear. Stamina just makes your healthbar look more consistent while taking the same damage. It's recommended to just not gem it, you should just happen to get it when you get socket bonuses/upgrades.

 

When comparing gear of different item levels, often times it's best to just ignore the stamina as well, though in cases where the upgrade is large (say +40 ilvls) then you will want to go with the stamina to help your healers keep you from spiking (except if its a matter of 4set, keep your 4sets if youre using Eternal Flame).

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You are missing Stamina in stat priority chart.

 

Stamina is discussed in the stats page, but due to its nature, it's really not possible to just put it into the priority list. It doesn't matter much anyway, because as Fouton says, you shouldn't be actively gearing for it in any way. The only exception is some gimmicky fight or something like this, but that's very unlikely.

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Just putting my thoughts out there... isn't haste still an insanely highly recommended stat ? considering that it increases your holy power regenaration and therefore makes you able to keep up wow_icon_ability_paladin_shieldofvengean Shield of the Righteous ALOT more... on my paladin i am going currently as much haste as i possibly can, i have around 52% haste and i am able to keep an uptime on wow_icon_ability_paladin_shieldofvengean Shield of the Righteous about 80% or more of the intire fight (note that i also have wow_icon_spell_holy_divinepurpose.jpg Divine Purpose) but i do understand that ofc it is recommended to keep a balance of some kind between mastery and haste in order to increase the dmg reduction of the spell itself.. this is atleast what i am doing, and it is working like a charm, able to solotank close to everything, and dont need a healer for when im doing towers on galakras on HC (old normal)

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Just putting my thoughts out there... isn't haste still an insanely highly recommended stat ? considering that it increases your holy power regenaration and therefore makes you able to keep up wow_icon_ability_paladin_shieldofvengean Shield of the Righteous ALOT more... on my paladin i am going currently as much haste as i possibly can, i have around 52% haste and i am able to keep an uptime on wow_icon_ability_paladin_shieldofvengean Shield of the Righteous about 80% or more of the intire fight (note that i also have wow_icon_spell_holy_divinepurpose.jpg Divine Purpose) but i do understand that ofc it is recommended to keep a balance of some kind between mastery and haste in order to increase the dmg reduction of the spell itself.. this is atleast what i am doing, and it is working like a charm, able to solotank close to everything, and dont need a healer for when im doing towers on galakras on HC (old normal)

This kind of thing depends a lot on your tanking style, and the environment in which you are in. For example, why I would say that it is impressive that you can solo-tank the towers without needing any healers, I'd ask why you would ever need to do that to begin with, since you have healers in the raid.

 

The guides we write are intended to be of use to characters progressing on difficult content. Not the most cutting edge of progression, because that's really where the innovation happens, but not farming old content either, because that's where you can get away with a lot.

 

So, I'm confident to say that if you were to be doing the same fight on Mythic, or progressing on a boss in the upcoming Highmaul, you'd find that Mastery would help you more.

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Hi,

 

I am playing a paladin protection / retribution

 

I am a little bit confused by your guide and the 6.0.2 patch note. (it will not be the first time with Blizzard but...)

 

So patch notes says:

 

Secondary Stat Attunements

A new concept that we’re introducing is each specialization having an attunement to a particular secondary stat. These take the form of a passive ability that grants a 5% increase to the amount of a specific secondary stat gained. This provides a good starting point for where to focus your secondary stats. Usually, it will be your highest throughput stat (not counting Spirit for Healers, and Bonus Armor for Tanks, which is an optimal secondary stat in most cases). There are exceptions, and raw throughput may not even be the biggest concern in some situations. Treat this as a guideline, not a rule, about which secondary stat to favor.

 

  • All specializations now receive a 5% bonus to specific secondary stat bonuses received from all sources. This bonus is granted through new passive abilities or additional effects added to existing passive abilities.
  • [... other classes ...]
  • Paladin
    • Holy: Critical Strike
    • Protection: Haste
    • Retribution: Mastery

 

 

and in your guide you says that Mastery is top priority:

 

 

The stat priority for Protections Paladins is as follows:

  1. Mastery;
  2. Bonus Armor;
  3. Versatility;
  4. Haste to 50%;
  5. Critical Strike;
  6. Multistrike.

 

is everything ok and all right?

 

Do we have to prioritise Haste up to 50% and then Mastery (for enchant and gems) or prioritise Mastery?

 

Thanks

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This kind of thing depends a lot on your tanking style, and the environment in which you are in. For example, why I would say that it is impressive that you can solo-tank the towers without needing any healers, I'd ask why you would ever need to do that to begin with, since you have healers in the raid.

 

The guides we write are intended to be of use to characters progressing on difficult content. Not the most cutting edge of progression, because that's really where the innovation happens, but not farming old content either, because that's where you can get away with a lot.

 

So, I'm confident to say that if you were to be doing the same fight on Mythic, or progressing on a boss in the upcoming Highmaul, you'd find that Mastery would help you more.

i do see your point, why is it needed to go without healer in the towers when there is a healer for it anyways, and about the part were i might find mastery more valueable in progress runs, again, i do see your points but isn't it kinda useless to go mastery without haste? mastery increases your block chance and increase the damage reduction value on  wow_icon_ability_paladin_shieldofvengean Shield of the Righteous, but you cant block more than 30% of the incoming dmg, no matter how much mastery you have. and without haste your uptime on holy power will be very low, and therefore you wont have  wow_icon_ability_paladin_shieldofvengean Shield of the Righteous up very much of the fight.. so basicly im just wondering if it wouldn't be more valueable to go for 50% haste before you start going for mastery?

Edited by Pixi

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While haste is an extremely useful stat, theory crafters have shown through sims and with direct math that mastery will help more. The thing to note about mastery is that it helps in multiple ways, rather than just Shield of the Righteous, and often times a healthy balance of both haste and mastery will be useful. Since a balance is nice, and haste comes easier, stacking Mastery will keep them evened out in value. A direct-math standpoint is that you reduce the most damage when your shield of the righteous damage reduction% equals your uptime %.

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I'm curious, Guarded by the Light has disappeared from our spellbooks, did something else take it's place?

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Hi,

 

I am playing a paladin protection / retribution

 

I am a little bit confused by your guide and the 6.0.2 patch note. (it will not be the first time with Blizzard but...)

 

So patch notes says:

 

 

and in your guide you says that Mastery is top priority:

 

 

is everything ok and all right?

 

Do we have to prioritise Haste up to 50% and then Mastery (for enchant and gems) or prioritise Mastery?

 

Thanks

 

The stats priority should be fine as listed on the website at the moment. Prioritise Mastery. Haste to 50% merely indicates that it's of value to you (and more so than Critical Strike) until that point, after which it is not.

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Tier 2:

 

"The talent choice here is largely irrelevant, and it will not impact your performance in any way"

 

 

I beg to differ:

 

First of Justice allows for some reasonably/very powerful defensive cooldown;

 

 

Spoils:

 

Using it just when Kor'thik Warcaller's spell_shadow_unholyfrenzy.jpgEnrages, especially in Mythic.

 

 

Amalgamation of Corruption:

 

Using it when two Manifestation of Corruption's spawn and the other tank is phased. This allows you to taunt 1 manifestation and stun the other until the taunt comes off CD.

 

 

Galakras:

 

Interrupting  Dragonmaw Bonecrusher's ability_ghoulfrenzy.jpgFracture, interrupting Dragonmaw Tidal Shaman's spell_nature_healingwavegreater.jpgChain Heal.

 

 

General Nazgrim:

 

Stunning any add.

 

 

Malkorok Mythic:

 

Taunting the Living Corruption, and applying the stun when it is between melee and ranged. This way no one gets the ability_warlock_soulswap.jpgLanguish debuff.

 

 

Siegecrafter Blackfuse:

 

Stunning Crawler Mines

 

 

Paragons of the Klaxxi:

 

Stunning almost all adds

 

 

Garrosh:

 

Stunning players afflicted by ability_garrosh_touch_of_yshaarj.jpgTouch of Y'Shaarj before it gets Empowered.

 

 

 

 

The other Tier two abilities don't come close towards the utility and defensive CD that the Fist of Justice has.

 

 

I've been using Icy-Veins for years but I almost always put really big question marks on some of your decisions. I guess I sound like an ass with this criticism, but I honestly feel that sometimes you could use a different point of view on some of your choices.

 

That said though, I know a lot of you put tonnes of effort into the site and to make it easier for everyone. I value the craftsmanship that went into it for years.

 

 

I wish you could be a bit more elaborate on some of the choices made, and I wished I bit the bullet and came with criticism sooner.

 

 

There's another great example I would like to put up, but am very interested to see if you can find out for yourself (Yourselves?). If you like to be challenged, try to find out why I strongly disagree with your opinion of your Tier 6 Choices. The more thought you put into it the more elaborate I'll be and see if I can change your opinion.

 

Thrill of discussions.

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Tier 2:

 

"The talent choice here is largely irrelevant, and it will not impact your performance in any way"

 

 

I beg to differ:

 

First of Justice allows for some reasonably/very powerful defensive cooldown;

 

 

Spoils:

 

Using it just when Kor'thik Warcaller's spell_shadow_unholyfrenzy.jpgEnrages, especially in Mythic.

 

 

Amalgamation of Corruption:

 

Using it when two Manifestation of Corruption's spawn and the other tank is phased. This allows you to taunt 1 manifestation and stun the other until the taunt comes off CD.

 

 

Galakras:

 

Interrupting  Dragonmaw Bonecrusher's ability_ghoulfrenzy.jpgFracture, interrupting Dragonmaw Tidal Shaman's spell_nature_healingwavegreater.jpgChain Heal.

 

 

General Nazgrim:

 

Stunning any add.

 

 

Malkorok Mythic:

 

Taunting the Living Corruption, and applying the stun when it is between melee and ranged. This way no one gets the ability_warlock_soulswap.jpgLanguish debuff.

 

 

Siegecrafter Blackfuse:

 

Stunning Crawler Mines

 

 

Paragons of the Klaxxi:

 

Stunning almost all adds

 

 

Garrosh:

 

Stunning players afflicted by ability_garrosh_touch_of_yshaarj.jpgTouch of Y'Shaarj before it gets Empowered.

 

 

 

 

The other Tier two abilities don't come close towards the utility and defensive CD that the Fist of Justice has.

 

 

I've been using Icy-Veins for years but I almost always put really big question marks on some of your decisions. I guess I sound like an ass with this criticism, but I honestly feel that sometimes you could use a different point of view on some of your choices.

 

That said though, I know a lot of you put tonnes of effort into the site and to make it easier for everyone. I value the craftsmanship that went into it for years.

 

 

I wish you could be a bit more elaborate on some of the choices made, and I wished I bit the bullet and came with criticism sooner.

 

 

There's another great example I would like to put up, but am very interested to see if you can find out for yourself (Yourselves?). If you like to be challenged, try to find out why I strongly disagree with your opinion of your Tier 6 Choices. The more thought you put into it the more elaborate I'll be and see if I can change your opinion.

 

Thrill of discussions.

 

You are right. We've historically treated the talents that give you a stun (or improve it) as simply CC (for example Mighty Bash for Guardian Druids), but it is true that you can use them quite well to mitigate add damage. We'll amend the guide to make a note of the usefulness of these talents.

 

As for tier 6 talents, I can't quite say what your gripe might be. The discussion we have there is fairly open-ended. Perhaps you disagree with the idea that the greater number of global cooldowns spent on Holy Prism is a disadvantage (since you can also use it "when you need it")?

 

thanks a lot Vlad and Fouton

 

You are very welcome.

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Bring the Tier 6 discussion to the paladin forums and I'll gladly put out a good debate :) The basics of it though is: Execution sentence is single target king, lights hammer is AoE burst king, holy prism is add control king. Overall prism takes away from mitigation slightly and sims worst, but can have an amazing utility to picking up adds. It's a matter of using it for the right fight.

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Man i've been reading tanking feedback for WoD all night. It's 5 am and I have to go to work, i'm that dedicated to this. My guild needs me, my friends need me. When I look at the boss fights of the first raid, I see heavy tank single target damage. With dots and having to swap. I'm just trying to figure out which class can boss tank the best and i'm not really sure because over 3 hours of reading, I just can't pick. I'm noticing a "it's balanced" vibe for this expansion.

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Should Haste be avoided or treated as secondary to Mastery/Bonus Armor? It appears that the value and rarity of Bonus Armor makes it first and Mastery great due to its various effects, but the stat listing puts Haste as dead last yet half the points and discussions talk about haste as being just below Mastery in effectiveness.

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Should Haste be avoided or treated as secondary to Mastery/Bonus Armor? It appears that the value and rarity of Bonus Armor makes it first and Mastery great due to its various effects, but the stat listing puts Haste as dead last yet half the points and discussions talk about haste as being just below Mastery in effectiveness.

You should always follow the actual priority of stats (so, that puts Haste dead last). The order of the paragraphs describing the stats is not an indication of the value of those stats :)

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The Rotation section of the Prot guide needs some updating. It says that SotR is useless against magic damage, which is no longer true if you take Holy Shield at level 100. 

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I dont see sanctity of battle passive on my friends paladin.Did they remove it ?

It still exists, it just doesn't show up in the spell book anymore.

 

The Rotation section of the Prot guide needs some updating. It says that SotR is useless against magic damage, which is no longer true if you take Holy Shield at level 100. 

Thank you. I will look into this now.

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And what profit do you get from SotR against magic dmg with holy shield? Holy shield adds you an ability to block spells, but block value not affected by SotR.

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And what profit do you get from SotR against magic dmg with holy shield? Holy shield adds you an ability to block spells, but block value not affected by SotR.

That's right, indeed!

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The tool tip information that appears when hovering over your link for Sanctified Wrath is not the same as what I am seeing live, in-game when I look at my talents. 

 

In-game, mine says the following: Your Holy Wrath now generates 1 Holy Power, and deals 100% additional damage. 

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Any thoughts on the worth of Kyb's Foolish Perseverance? Is the 594 stam worth it? Or is it better to focus trinkets with mastery, bonus armor or vers?

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      Here's a full list of items that can be obtained from the event:
      Loot
      Amberseal Keeper Acid Inscribed Greaves Acid Inscribed Pauldrons Ancient Corroded Leggings Belt of the Dark Bog Boots of Fright Boots of the Endless Moor Black Bark Wristbands Blacklight Bracer Blazefury Medallion Circlet of Restless Dreams Cold Snap Crystal Adorned Crown Dark Heart Pants Deviate Growth Cap Doomhide Gauntlets Dragonbone Wristguards Dragonheart Necklace Dragonspur Wraps Drape of Benediction Emerald Dragonfang Empyrean Demolisher Eskhandar's Pelt Fang of the Mystics Fel Infused Leggings Flayed Doomguard Belt Gauntlets of the Shining Light Gloves of Delusional Power Green Dragonskin Cloak Hammer of Bestial Fury Hibernation Crystal Infernal Headcage Jade Inlaid Vestments Leggings of the Demented Mind Malignant Footguards Mana-Frosted Pauldrons Mendicant's Slippers Mindtear Band Nightmare Blade Polished Ironwood Crossbow Ring of Ancient Arcana Ring of Entropy Ring of the Unliving Unmelting Ice Girdle Unnatural Leather Spaulders Sapphire-Encrusted Tunic Snowblind Shoes Staff of Rampant Growth Strangely Glyphed Legplates Trance Stone Typhoon Blizzard (Source)
      Celebrate 14 years of World of Warcraft with us! Log in between now and November 30 to earn the WoW's 14th Anniversary, then check your mail for a special Anniversary Gift Package.
      Inside the package you’ll find 200 Timewarped Badges, a Celebration Package item to increase experience and reputation gains by 14% for 1 hour, and a “Letter from the Timewalkers,” which will start a new quest leading you to either Orgrimmar or Stormwind.
      In addition, questgivers Historian Llore and Historian Ju’pa will have two daily quests that give players a chance to earn additional Timewarped Badges either by answering World of Warcraft trivia or by defeating some familiar foes. Collectors will also have a chance to pick up a few pieces of classic loot from defeating them.
      Players level 1–59 who didn’t get to complete last year’s letter from the Timewalker’s quest will still be able to receive and complete it.
      CLASSIC BOSSES TO CELEBRATE
      It’s been 14 years since gates opened into Azeroth and the heroes of the Horde and Alliance began their journey of discovery and adventure. To celebrate this momentous occasion, some familiar foes have returned to Azeroth—with some slightly updated abilities. Players level 60 and above can take on Lord Kazzak, Azuregos, and one of the four Dragons of Nightmare each day for some loot and 50 Timewarped Badges.
      NEW VENDOR ITEM
      In addition to all the many great items available for purchase, you’ll be able to use your badges to acquire a new item this year.
      New Toy! Overtuned Corgi Goggles: Change how you see the world around you when you use this new toy. While active, friendly NPCs will appear to be such good boys and girls all year round. THANK YOU!
      Thank you to everyone who’s been a part of this adventure so far. You represent the best aspects of the Horde and the Alliance, and you inspire and motivate us every day. We’re looking forward to sharing many, many more adventures with you in the years to come.