Damien

Restoration Shaman 6.2

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This thread is for comments about our Restoration Shaman guide.

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Hey Vix,

 

Question for you re: Resto Shaman stat priority.  I agree with you that Mastery is the best secondary stat, but how did you come up with Multistrike being number two?  As far as I can tell, Multistrike is similar to Crit in that it grants extra throughput, but lacks the benefits of granting mana gains from Resurgence.

 

At level 100, 110 crit = 1% crit rating and 66 multistrike = 1% multistrike rating. Multistrike is cheaper, but also less effective since a critical heal doubles the value of the heal (heal size x 2.0), and a multistrike heal only multiplies it by 1.3, or 1.6 if you want to take into account that there are two chances to proc a multistrike.

 

For example, lets just say you have a 10K heal. If a crit procs, that heal = 10k x 2 = 20k. If both multistrikes proc, then you get 10K + 3K + 3K = 16k total.

 

What does this mean? The crit heal gave 10K extra throughput, and the multistrike heal gave 6K extra throughput. 6/10 = 0.6, and lo and behold, 66/110 (the stat values needed to obtain 1% multistrike and crit) also = 0.6. In terms of raw stat values, this means that crit and multistrike are completey equal in terms of throughput gained per point. However, crit has the added benefit of granting mana regen from resurgence, and multistrike does not.

 

In my book, stat priority is: Mastery > Crit > Multistrike > Haste.

 

Am I completely missing something about multistrike?

 

Thanks!

 

Amika <Might> Zul'jin

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Excellent question!

 

I don't disagree with your approach--in terms of an isolated investment, the gain per point would be equal. So, even basic intuition would suggest that with Multistrike providing no benefit to regen, Crit would be better because it increases Resurgence procs by some amount greater than zero.

 

But, there are a couple issues that arise with this line of thinking. First, it assumes sufficient time in which to cast the additional heal. It's a fair presumption, one that I don't think this is going to be an issue in Mythic raiding, but I bring it up because time is an inherent part of evaluating stat weights (and can significantly impact rotational stat evaluations). But, again, in an isolated environment, the worst case the two stats are equal; the best case is that Crit moves ahead.

 

The second, and the larger issue, is what happens when you start looking at Crit and Multistrike in a dependant environment. (This is similar to the interrelationship of Crit and Mastery that I went to such lengths to analyze back in Cataclysm). While you can invest all your stats in Crit and have zero Multistrike, the inverse isn't true; all players have base crit. So, all multistrikes have potential to crit, even if it is at the base value of 5%. Thus, the calculation of your average heal would have the following components:  Total Heal = Base Heal + Critical Heal + (Multistrike1 + Multistrike1 Crit) + (Multistrike2 + Multistrike2 Crit). This is a careful departure from the situation where you look at each investment in isolation. When I ran the calcs this way, Multistrike did pull ahead of Crit in terms of average throughput. Hamlet's HealerCalcs actually corroborates on the raw throughput--hooray!

 

Lastly, it's worth remembering that Resurgence gains are comparatively minor in Warlords. Whereas in Mists, CH crits returned a whopping 22% of the base cost of the spell, in WoD you're only going to see a 5% return on critical strike. (Healing Wave returns 40% of base; Healing Surge returns 12%). So, when you're looking at a "raid healing rotation" which is dominated by CH, your sustainability isn't going to be significantly impacted by Resurgence. The counter to this is, of course, that Crit will overly benefit your "conservative single target rotation", and allow you to essentially tread water while waiting for the next period of burst. 

 

TL;DNR: at the end of it all, the answer both Stoove and I were left with was: it's very, VERY close. Which is an incredibly heartening idea given that WoD is a world without reforging, because it means that you shouldn't be overly concerned if you have the option of upgrading a Crit piece with a Multistrike piece or vice versa. 

 

Stoove actually put together a great post on this topic recently as well: http://stoove.wordpress.com/2014/11/03/statlords-of-shamanor/. It's worth a read and explains, in good detail, how the current stat recommendations were derived.

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One thing I'd like to add is that the theorycraft community doesn't entirely seem to agree yet on the issued of Crit and Multistrike. Vixsin noted that Hamlet's Healercalcs spreadsheet agrees with both her and my own analysis, but Hamlet and Dayani have both said (on their podcast) that Multi and Crit are "mathematically the same", which is contrary to Vixsin's reasoning and my own published calculations.

 

So, although the matter is under discussion right now, that has actually caused us to inspect our stat recommendations much more carefully than we otherwise would have.

 

Haste is still an open topic as well. In terms of pure throughput it's quite superior to either Crit or Multi (and inferior to Mastery), but there are considerations to be made for mana spending which so far hasn't been accounted for in published work. This is because such a problem is "quite nontrivial", as scientists like to say, which means that you are unlikely ever to find a properly satisfying Ultimate Answer.

 

Ultimately, the stat priority we have recommended (and will revise in the approach to WoD) is extremely carefully considered in the full knowledge of these problems and will shift as and when the theorycraft changes direction.

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Not to mention the value of getting that casted heal out "quicker" regardless of throughput, more of a pvp thing but still as (almost impossible to measure) value in pve

 

For crit and mutistrike (ignoring mana regen) its safe to say because they are close and scale off each other the "right" answer will be to ballance them to some degree

 

That all said because mastery is no 1, Gems and enchants will probably go there, and we will probably prefer warforged, and gemmed and maybe even gear with terrciary stats before we need to even worry about choosing between crit and mastery

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Oh, the power of math! Thank you very much Vixsin and Stoove for your responses. I also really enjoyed reading your "Statlords of Shamanor" writeup Stoove, although now my head hurts just a bit smile.png The time you have both taken to math these things out is greatly appreciated.

 

As a "touchyfeelycrafter", after taking all this into consideration, I like the idea of Mastery > Multistrike = Crit > Haste for the first tier of WoD. Personally, I'm placing Haste low on the priority list simply because of the inevitable HPM concerns for the first tier, when we all feel a little mana starved.  Haste is lovely if your mana regen can support it, but in a mana-conservative environment I think I'll lean towards the free throughput of the other secondary stats.

 

Finally, it certainly is reassuring to believe that no matter what combination of secondary stats get thrown our way, we'll be able to make good use of them.

 

Thank you once again for taking the time to respond!

 

Amika <Might> Zul'jin

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Responding to discussions like this is absolutely a pleasure, and thanks for your compliments!

 

I know that a lot of people who have tested raiding more rigorously than I have on the Beta are saying that Haste will be too low on their personal rating just for the mana concerns. I'm not sure whether I'm being optimistic here - perhaps I anticipate changing my rotation much more than those who playtested might already have.

 

Also, stay tuned for more maths which will try to take account of some of the mana issues we've discussed. :)

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the guide says wow_icon_spell_shaman_elementaloath.jpgAncestral Swiftness gives you an emergency heal if you combine it with wow_icon_spell_nature_healingwavelesser.Healing Wave. I would think it better to use wow_icon_spell_nature_healingway.jpgHealing Surge as it has more base healing power, and its free of mana cost.

 

also you can make wow_icon_ability_shaman_condensationtoteCloudburst Totem expire when you want it, if you don't have some other important totem up at the time with wow_icon_spell_shaman_totemrecall.jpgTotemic Recall. maybe you can add this as somebody might find it usefull to know.

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Question: 

 

I haven't had a single Echo of Elements procc when using healing spells. Is it possible that the Skill only proccs of Damage-Skills?

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I haven't had a single Echo of Elements procc when using healing spells. Is it possible that the Skill only proccs of Damage-Skills?

 

EotE procs from healing spells just as much as it procs from damage. The only caveat is that you must be in combat to proc EotE, which is obviously not a problem with damage spells. :)

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For me, Mr Robot is recommending Mark of Bleeding Hollow over Mark of Shadowmoon.  Have there been any changes, or is Mr Robot simply weighing stats differently?

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For me, Mr Robot is recommending Mark of Bleeding Hollow over Mark of Shadowmoon.  Have there been any changes, or is Mr Robot simply weighing stats differently?

 

Depends on how desparate for mana you are, and I don't have a feel for that in raids yet. AMR would be correct for throughput, but sub-optimal if you need the mana to sustain healing.

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The talents are outdated. Elemental Blast is a really good choice now, with 1000 spirit from 250 and 500 in a random stat. 

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I'd like to ask about the new set pieces coming with BFR.

 

They have quite a high amount of multistrike mixed in them. Is there going to be a probable change in stat priority once the set bonuses come into effect? It seems like Blizzard is trying to push multistrike onto everything Shaman related.

 

To this moment I was able to run on 0 MS and 0 Vers, this will not be the case with the new gear.

 

Will the gear optimization just get harder? Or will we probably adapt to different stats?

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The talents are outdated. Elemental Blast is a really good choice now, with 1000 spirit from 250 and 500 in a random stat.

 

I updated the values, which I had forgotten to update when WoD was released.

 

I'd like to ask about the new set pieces coming with BFR.

 

They have quite a high amount of multistrike mixed in them. Is there going to be a probable change in stat priority once the set bonuses come into effect? It seems like Blizzard is trying to push multistrike onto everything Shaman related.

 

To this moment I was able to run on 0 MS and 0 Vers, this will not be the case with the new gear.

 

Will the gear optimization just get harder? Or will we probably adapt to different stats?

I'll let Stoove reply to that smile.png

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Hmm. I can't really decide between Cloudburst Totem and High Tides. I have read several guides about that and I am still using Cloudburst Totem. Before we get our tier 17 set 4 bonus (then High Tides is the choice), it is a difficult to decide..

 

Currently I am not using much Chain Heal so I think Cloudburst is better choice, but I am not sure..

 

This guide's default choice is Cloudburst so I guess I will keep it for now..

 

Has there been any changes past month? I see this guide has not been updated for a while.

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I'd like to ask about the new set pieces coming with BFR.

 

They have quite a high amount of multistrike mixed in them. Is there going to be a probable change in stat priority once the set bonuses come into effect? It seems like Blizzard is trying to push multistrike onto everything Shaman related.

 

To this moment I was able to run on 0 MS and 0 Vers, this will not be the case with the new gear.

 

Will the gear optimization just get harder? Or will we probably adapt to different stats?

 

Here's my understanding of the BRF Tier gear: the additional casts of Chain Heal will not proc Multistrikes. So that would imply that Multistrike won't become overpowered due simply to the 2pc set bonus.

 

The second part of this is about set itemization; I don't think that Multistrike will get any *better* without a significant change implemented to our mechanics, which I think is unlikely. Mastery and Haste will still be our best throughput stats, but we might be forced into having a wider spread of stats (i.e. more Multistrike and Crit). I don't really see us changing our playstyle much in the face of different itemization, except for being slightly happier to heal people on high hp.

 

Hmm. I can't really decide between Cloudburst Totem and High Tides. I have read several guides about that and I am still using Cloudburst Totem. Before we get our tier 17 set 4 bonus (then High Tides is the choice), it is a difficult to decide..

 

Currently I am not using much Chain Heal so I think Cloudburst is better choice, but I am not sure..

 

This guide's default choice is Cloudburst so I guess I will keep it for now..

 

Has there been any changes past month? I see this guide has not been updated for a while.

 

Set bonuses aside, CBT and HT are roughly on par - I find it better to spec CBT by default and switch into HT for those fights where I can find a really good use for it. CBT is really such an efficient talent that I'd advise learning to use that over HT. Note also that you have to do quite a lot of Chain Heals in one fight for HT's throughput to start to outstrip CBT's - a number which I just can't afford at the moment.

 

The guide does not currently need to be updated as far as I know. Very little has changed since it was last updated.

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Question about T6 talents.

 

Your guide says to take primal elementalist unless you have mana problems. However, while you give a good description of Unleashed Fury, you don't say why to either never take it, or when it would be more useful than Primal Elementalist or Elemental Blast.

 

Why should I never take Unleashed Fury?

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I don't think so Unleashed Fury would be better on any situation except when you need to do Chain Heal a lot (assuming you are also using High Tides) or big heal on someone with low hp. Primal Elementalist gives you a passive 10% healing done when you pop em out and Elemental Blast Spirit for mana regen.

 

What I think so far is the Imperator fight on heroic/mythic where Unleashed Fury along with Chain Heal/High Tides could be useful.

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Can you please update this guide? it still references siege of orgrimmar and from looking at the top resto shamans and how they heal, seems to be outdated

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The guide could use some serious updating, most of the justification for talents comes from SoO fights and at this point it's suggesting talents that most of the top tier resto shamans are disagreeing with. I'd say default Astral Shift, Windwalk Totem, Call of the Elements, Ancestral Swiftness, Rushing Streams (Conductivity for a handful of minimal movement fights), Elemental Blast, High Tide.

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Question about T6 talents.

 

Your guide says to take primal elementalist unless you have mana problems. However, while you give a good description of Unleashed Fury, you don't say why to either never take it, or when it would be more useful than Primal Elementalist or Elemental Blast.

 

Why should I never take Unleashed Fury?

 

It seems like this part wasn't update recently.

The most 'to-go' talent in tier 6 now is Elemental Blast due to spirit and secondaries buffs that it provides. 

You definitely can play with Unleashed Fury when taking CBT in tier 7. Crits from HS empowered with UF+UL charge the totem very nice. It is valuable for empowering HW too.

Maybe things will change with getting more tier bonuses and higher ilvl deeper in expansion, but PE is definitely not the best choice for now. It was back in MoP, but now you can hardly find resto shaman who prefer it over EB or UF.

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      New Zones
      Blizzard added new Allied Races Scenarios, faction embassies and there's even a scenario for Uuna! Please note that these Scenarios haven't been tested on PTR.
      Allied Races & Uuna Scenarios
      A preview of Fate's Veil, Forge of Aeons and other zones added in Patch 7.3.5.

      Faction Embassies
      Faction embassies have been added to Orgrimmar and Stormwind. They serve for recruiting Allied Races; almost all faction leaders can be found there. Additionally, Baine Bloodhoof, Saurfang, Trade Prince Gallywix and Nathanos all received new models.

      Faction Embassies Preview #2
      Our second preview focuses on changes to embassies throughout 7.3.5 testing.

      Nightborne Hub (Uninstanced Nighthold)
      The uninstanced version of the Nighthold has been updated with new NPCs and portals. Pandaren are teaching the Nightborne the way of the Monk and more!
       
      Legion Epilogue
      Both factions have established base camps in Silithus. Will the price of victory be the very lifeblood of Azeroth?

      Ogmot the Mad Foreshadowing Riddles
      Ogmot the Mad is a new rare mob that can be found in Silithus. He drops Journal of Ogmot the Mad, where we learn how eager he is to become the vessel of the Old Gods. The journal has ten pages and covers interesting events.

      Seething Shore Battleground
      The new battleground is located off the coast of Silithus. It's a resource battle and both factions need to collect Azerite nodes to claim victory.

      Trial of Style Season 2 Rewards
      A couple of new items and rewards have been added to the Trial of Style micro-holiday. New sets cost Trial of Style Tokens.

      Ulduar Timewalking
      Ulduar is the second Timewalking raid, available during Wrath Timewalking. Defeating Algalon now rewards both titles (Observed) and completing the Ulduar raid achievements both mounts (Glory of the Ulduar Raider). There are probably no plans to introduce a transmoggable Val'anyr, Hammer of Ancient Kings and the raid now has a single difficulty.

      Vicious War Fox Mount
      The PvP mount datamined back in Patch 7.3 is finally available for 1 Vicious Saddle.

      Zone Scaling
      A highly anticipated feature of 7.3.5 is the introduction of zone scaling. Zones have level caps, difficulty and quest rewards scale with your level. At level 58, you can choose between Outland or Northrend, at level 80 it becomes a choice between Cataclysm zones & Pandaria. Find out more about zone scaling below!

      Zone Caps
      In addition to zone scaling, all zones now have chapters and completing a fixed number of quests is no longer required for Loremaster achievements.

    • By Stan

      The Postmaster has an important job for you! Check out our guide for the Postmaster quest chain of Patch 7.3.5.
      A new quest line is started by looting Lost Mail in Dalaran in Patch 7.3.5. Earn a pet, the Postmaster title, and a portable mailbox on a 3-hour cooldown!
      To learn more about Patch 7.3.5 check out our content hub here.
      Prerequisites
      The quest is started by looting Lost Mail that spawns every two hours at the mailbox near the stairs to the Violet Citadel (Dalaran). Alternatively, players that have completed the quest line will have a tradable Lost Mail in their inventory.

      Note: The quest chain can only be started after you either loot Lost Mail, or get one from other players that have completed the The Total Package achievement.
      Quest Chain
      Lost Mail
      Lost Mail is started by looting Lost Mail. The first objective is to deliver the Lost Mail to Madam Goya in Dalaran Underbelly. She's at the Black Market Auction House. If there i a lot of PvP going on, it's a good idea to hire an Underbelly Guard for 5 minutes from Raethan for 5 Gold.
      Next go to a mailbox. You will receive the following letter from the Postmaster:
      Dear <Name>,
      It has come to my attention that you handled the delivery of a missing parcel. For that, you have my gratitude! We are in somewhat of a crunch here in the mailroom, and I have need of a capable courier. If you are interested, please visit my office. You will find the entrance behind the Magus Commerce Exchange.
      The mailroom can be accessed by clicking the Mail Tube (flower pot) near the pet graveyard. You will be teleported to the mailroom and the Postmaster will have a new quest for you.

      Return to Sender
      Accept Return to Sender and return 9 Rejected Letters that have broken loose in the mailroom.

      A Huge Package
      For the next quest, you need to deliver 1,362 pieces of solid stone to the Ethereal Portal in Dalaran. Heft the solid stone in the mailroom, use the Mail Tube to return back to Dalaran and deliver the stone to the Ethereal Portal near the Antonidas Statue in Dalaran. After picking up the stone, you will only be able to walk really slowly (Encumbered), but abilities like Blink or Sprint can still help you to move faster for a brief period of time. At the portal you learn that Nexus-Prince Haramad is mad, because he received another delivery of the blasted stone. Return back to the mailroom to turn in the quest.

      Priority Delivery
      An adventurer of another time has forgotten to loot Invincible's Reins from the Lich King. Use the mailroom portal to the Frozen Throne to recover it, go to Steam Pools in Feralas and find Johnny Awesome. The fastest way to get there is by using the portal hub in Dalaran to teleport to the nearest city or Cataclysm portals in Stormwind / Orgrimmar.

      Service with a Smile
      You find out that Johnny already looted the steed during his raid last week and he orders you to sell Invincible's Reins to Gott Weedlespan in Feralas. 
      Note: During PTR testing, we found out that Gott Weedlespan is hostile to everyone that is at war / hated with Gadgetzan. We can't verify, if Blizzard already fixed this bug, but you simply can't sell Invincible's Reins to him. If you worked toward Avast Ye, Admiral! last year to purchase the Jolly Roger toy, chances are you are still hated by the Bilgewater Cartel and cannot continue the quest chain until a hotfix is released.

      Anyway, Gott gives you Bulging Sack of Gold in exchange for Invincible's Reins. Return back to Johnny to turn in the quest.
      Due Reward
      Go to the Sludge Fields in Hillsbrad Foothills and place Twinkles' favorite toy by his grave in honor of his memory. Teleport back to Dalaran and go back to the mailroom.

      The Mail Must Flow
      Help the Postmaster sort at least 15 leters within 60 seconds. Speak to the Postmaster to start the mini-game. 6 mail tubes appear with names of the continents (Kalimdor, Eastern Kingdoms, Outland, Northrend, Pandaria, Broken Isles). Letters with addresses (zones) will appear at the botom of your screen and you must match letters with the correct mail tube.

      Examples: Cosmowrench, Netherstorm > Outland, The Argent Stand, Zul'Drak > Northrend, Astranaar, Ashenvale > Kalimdor, Deliverance Point, Broken Shore > Broken Isles, Altar of Sha'tar, Shadowmoon Valley > Outland, Gadgetzan, Tanaris > Kalimdor, Conquest Hold, Grizzly Hills > Northrend.
      At this point, we had two letters from the Postmaster in the mailbox. The latest one rewarded a Bulging Package that contained Katy's Stampwhistle, a tradable Lost Mail and 24 Solid Stone.
      Completing The Mail Must Flow quest grants the The Total Package achievement. After completing the quest, you can start the mini-game again and sort 30 letters in one minute to receive the Priority Mail achievement that grants the Postmaster title and the Mailemental companion pet.
      The pet has the following flavor text:
      "The Postmaster is often described as esoteric, mystical, even inexplicable. For the precious little known about the enigmatic mail-master, perhaps none outside of the wax seal can confirm the existence of the fantastical letter-loving Mailemental."

      Abillities
      Package Drop Snail Mail Return to Sender Express Delivery Junk Mail Hate Mail
    • By joat
      Who We Are
      Tequila Sundown is a growing raid team formed within the <Karma Horde> guild on US-Stormreaver. Lead by a husband/wife team with high-level raiding experience dating back to WotLK, we're a "positively determined" progression team that maintains a light-hearted atmosphere while tackling mythic difficulty content. We're mature adults with jobs and family seeking like-minded players who have a passion for the game but want to avoid the needless angst or drama that often gets associated with progression raiding. We log on to have fun - so come have some fun with us!

      A Team Within a Community
      Our raid team is one of four within the larger guild of <Karma Horde>, which was formed back during WotLK. As such, the guild and Discord are very active and social. There are always people around online and in-game. The community atmosphere is welcoming and friendly to players of all levels. The guild enforces a Code of Conduct that has zero tolerance for hate/offensive speech.

      We care more about the people we play with than their item levels or progression rankings. We want players who are going to log in on non-raid nights and be down for all the other things we're into: pushing mythic+, doing world quests, PVP shenanigans, achievement hunting, hyper-competitive fishing.. there's so much to do and so many ways to enjoy the game. This is our favorite hobby and we'd like to play with you if it is yours, too.

      Progression Goals
      We are 1/11 Mythic, Heroic AOTC Antorus progression.
      We strive for a fun environment that takes the challenges of mythic seriously and giving the content the respect it deserves. Our aim is, as all mythic teams, full clear of content but with always keeping the friendly spirit of camaraderie alive. Performance matters, but so does staying positive and finding the fun in the difficulty of a raid.
      We do not require mythic raid experience to join our team but we do expect mythic-level dedication and accountability from all of our raiders.

      Raid Days/Times
      Our mandatory raids are:
      Tuesdays 8:45pm PT - 11:45pm PT
      Thursdays 8:45pm PT - 11:45pm PT
      Optional:
      Sundays 8:45pm PT - 11:45pm PT
      Sundays are for raiding the previous raid difficulty.

      Recruitment Needs
      Healers: YES. Will consider all specs, but would prefer to add a Holy/Disc Priest or Resto Druid.  To be clear, we have 1 core healer spot available.  
      DPS: No. Will consider exceptional applicants.
      Tank: NO. No current needs.   

      The Nitty Gritty
      If you're intrigued, please check out our wiki on the <Karma Horde> subreddit. This will give you a deeper dive into the raid team.
      https://www.reddit.com/r/FTH/wiki/tequilasundown

      Contact Us
      You can reach us on bnet: joat#1832 & lambkill#1856
      or Discord: joat#6049 & saever#4432