Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Whatcher

Askmrrobot or Wowreforge

11 posts in this topic

Begining of a new xpac, so I feel like a nub again, and so will ask a nub question. You suggest title sights for helping with gear ench/reforge. After re-evaluating using askmrrobot, I was currious and went to wowreforge, both seem to be using different stat weights, which is the preferred currently? And just to be certain it's clear, yes it's for my paladin.

Edit: just to muddy the waters even more I had been using Reforge Lite, and it also has a slightly different weight'ing but closer to askmrrobot's, than wowreforger.

Edited by Damien

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatcher, I think people would like to know your spec too. Stat weights differ when you are holy or retribution for example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We discuss our stat priorities with Ask Mr. Robot and we literally spend hours doing so. They go to great lengths to make sure that their stat priorities are correct, so you can trust them on that ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok I have a problem. I use reforgelite and I decided to use AMR to see the difference. I dropped 2k dps. Everything is optimal except for two enchants but I didn't have them before so I should be atleast pulling the same as before if not a little higher according to AMR. What is going on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok I have a problem. I use reforgelite and I decided to use AMR to see the difference. I dropped 2k dps. Everything is optimal except for two enchants but I didn't have them before so I should be atleast pulling the same as before if not a little higher according to AMR. What is going on?

I would like to know how you "measure" your DPS. Is it by doing tests on a training dummy, or is it from raids? Or are you plugging your character into a tool like Simulationcraft, and checking the DPS there.

Unless you are doing the latter, any tests you run are going to be pretty heavily skewed. The main reason is that your sample size is simply too small. On boss fights, between different attempts of the same boss, my DPS varies by as much 10K, and that's with the same set-up exactly.

On the training dummy, you are usually missing many raid buffs, something that is not accounted for when stat weights are calculated (since they all assume a raid environment).

Simulations are the only way to get hundreds (and indeed thousands) of instances of the same fight (same duration, same buffs, same rotation) and be able to compare the results.

May I ask what the stat priority that reforgelite was suggesting for Retribution? We are in agreement with Ask Mr Robot that the best secondary stat after capping Hit and Expertise is Haste. Even Elitist Jerks agrees on this fact. So, were you prioritising Crit or Mastery first, or what exactly is the difference that has caused this apparent loss of DPS?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i dont know if this stat prio is good but i am using this Strength > Hit > Expertise > Haste > Crit >mastery

using reforgelite.

Edited by mrx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to know how you "measure" your DPS. Is it by doing tests on a training dummy, or is it from raids? Or are you plugging your character into a tool like Simulationcraft, and checking the DPS there.

Unless you are doing the latter, any tests you run are going to be pretty heavily skewed. The main reason is that your sample size is simply too small. On boss fights, between different attempts of the same boss, my DPS varies by as much 10K, and that's with the same set-up exactly.

On the training dummy, you are usually missing many raid buffs, something that is not accounted for when stat weights are calculated (since they all assume a raid environment).

Simulations are the only way to get hundreds (and indeed thousands) of instances of the same fight (same duration, same buffs, same rotation) and be able to compare the results.

May I ask what the stat priority that reforgelite was suggesting for Retribution? We are in agreement with Ask Mr Robot that the best secondary stat after capping Hit and Expertise is Haste. Even Elitist Jerks agrees on this fact. So, were you prioritising Crit or Mastery first, or what exactly is the difference that has caused this apparent loss of DPS?

I test my dps on the training dummies. AMR is saying to reforge to haste but RFL is saying mastery. I understand that robot takes into account raid buffs but either way i shouldn't have dropped dps going from mastery to haste as my priority stat (after hit and exp). It is not that big of a deal concidering ret is an off spec but it just caught my eye and i decided to ask.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are the stat weights on AMR and RFL the same? Since one is recommending haste and one is recommending mastery it seems they are not.

you can adjust your stat weights in both if you want to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are the stat weights on AMR and RFL the same? Since one is recommending haste and one is recommending mastery it seems they are not.

you can adjust your stat weights in both if you want to.

No the stat weights are different on the two. AMR is weighted for haste and atm RFL is weighted for mastery. I know i can adjust the weights but am unsure what to put, as I have never really messed with that stuff and the way RFL is set up is kind of confussing for me.

I thoroughly believe haste is best atm for ret due to a lower gcd and lower cd on spells. I am not sure why I had the drop in dps but my guess would be because almost all the gear anymore is coming mastery heavy which makes it very hard to get the haste rating at lower ilvl gear (468).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cannot speak to the value of ReforgeLite's stat weights, because I have no idea whatsoever how they are obtained.

One thing I can think of as to why Haste might not be giving you the results you should get is that you aren't taking full advantage of it, that is to say that you're wasting some of it by not using your abilities on cooldown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The stat weights will always vary,this is due to the complex interaction of stats. As you get more stacked in one stat, for ret, the others start to gain in importance (depending upon the ratio). You can only know your own actual values by running sims. Simulationcraft and Exemplar's spreadsheet (EJ forums) are the 2 most common sims at this time.

Priority remains:

Hit to cap > Strength > Expertise to cap > Haste > Mastery > Crit

Those values however are based on BiS gear. If you are in pre-raid gear the stat priority can fluctuate some.

You should not see a major fluctuation in dps however if you are properly following the priority with good execution. The links below demonstrate how comfortable the Upper Level theorycrafters are with this priority.

http://www.icy-veins.com/retribution-paladin-wow-pve-dps-statistics-priority-reforging

http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t130889-ret_5_0_4_mop_retribution_concordance_retcon_panda_ing_dps_meters/

http://www.methodwow.com/board/showthread.php?11365-MoP-Retribution-Paladin-Guide

If you are not interested in simming results specifically for your character, my recommendation would be to follow http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear and it will not guide you far from wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Pain
      Hello guys i would like to share my weakauras for each healing class, hope you like it ;)
      *Since the copy code gave issue's updated it to wago links for easy copying*
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      New to Weakauras ?
      You can download it on this page :
      https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/weakauras-2
      When ingame type /wa to open the control panel of weakaura. Select "import" Copy - paste the code of which you can find down below A screen will popup and select the import button on it. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Updated :
      11-02-17 : Improved Shaman Healing tool.
      25-02-17 : Improved Paladin Healing tool.
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Shaman Druid Paladin Priest Monk *not yet* ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Shaman 
      We will start of with the shaman :
      Resto Shaman - Healing Tool

      Import string :  https://wago.io/4yn3hs9KM
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Resto Shaman - Cooldowns

      Import string : https://wago.io/VJm5cicKM
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Resto Shaman - Usable cooldowns

      Import string :  https://wago.io/EJcuns5Kz
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Druid 
      Druid - Healing Tool

      Import string :  https://wago.io/VkLqhs5tG
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

      Druid - Cooldowns

      Import string : https://wago.io/NkXd5octG
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

      Paladin
      Paladin - Healing tool

      Import string : https://wago.io/VyuEFj9Yf
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

      Paladin - Cooldowns

      Import string : https://wago.io/4k3EqiqtM
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
       
      Priest
      Holy Priest - Healing Tool

      Import string :  https://wago.io/4y2JojcYM
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Holy Priest - Cooldowns

      Import string :  https://wago.io/VkRaio5Yz
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Holy Priest - Holy Word Tracker *Additional*

      Import string : https://wago.io/V11doicYM
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Holy Priest - Trail of light Talent Tracker *Additional*

      Import string :  https://wago.io/EyclhaZuZ
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Disc Priest - Healing Tool

      Import string :  https://wago.io/NJm2ci9FG
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
       
       
    • By Violentravi
      Hello,
      Adelante is currently recruiting DPS & Heals, however, all competent players will be considered.  We are a Horde guild on Arthas and our current progression is 1/10M NH, 10/10H NH 6/7M EN and 3/3H TOV.  As far as classes go we do not have a Moonkin, Mage, Feral Druid, or any type of Monk. We only raid two nights a week, Tuesday and Wednesday from 7:00 PM until 11:00 PM Eastern.  Thursday is not considered a raid night, but we will often clear Heroic and Normal on this evening for AP and it is not required. We are pushing progression on Il'gynoth, and look forward to finishing off EN then moving on to Nighthold, we will be intermittently working on Mythic TOV.
      From you, we would expect 100% attendance during your trial period; after that, if you cannot make a raid or will be late it is mandatory to keep the raid leader updated.  In order to continue making good progression while raiding only two nights a week, we expect that you know your class inside-out and will research any bosses you are unfamiliar with prior to raids.
      If you are interested, please PM me (violentravi#1826) or recruiting officer Sepsis (tuxedomask#1712) in game.  However, if you have time (which goes a long way) for us to give you a real evaluation there is a short forum to fill out linked on our discord: https://discord.gg/JMVuYRW
       
      Thank you for your consideration
      Xoxo
      Violentnacho & the Guild
    • By Reji
      Introdution:
      <Turkeyism> is a (7/7M EN) (2/3M ToV) (3/10M NH) weekend raiding guild on Stormrage US. Our guild was originally formed in early 2013 as a 10man Heroic raid team with the goal to have fun and get as far as possible. After having defeated Heroic Garrosh in Siege of Ogrimmar and ending the Mists of Pandaria expansion ranked 19th on Stormrage, our team decided to push forward into Warlords of Draenor. With the introduction of Mythic in 6.0, our team set out to expand our roster, overcome new challenges, and defeat the final boss on Mythic, all while maintaining a fun atmosphere to raid in. We finished Warlords of Draenor ranking 14th on Stormrage and managed to get 27 of our raiders the Felsteel Annihilator mount from Mythic Archimonde. We are now currently raiding Mythic Nighthold and looking for additional players (870 ilvl+) who seek a challenge and want to have fun.
      Raid Times:
      Friday: 7:30pm – 11:30pm EST
      Saturday: 7:30pm – 11:30pm EST
      <Turkeyism> is a weekend raiding guild that raids two nights a week from 7:30 – 11:30pm EST on Friday and Saturdays.
      In Demand Classes:
      Paladin (Holy/ret)
      Druid (Balance)
      Priests (Shadow)
      Hunters (Marksmen/Beastmaster)
      Warlocks (Affliction/Demonology)
      Monks (Mistweaver/Windwalker)
      (We prefer the classes listed above but all exceptional applicants will be considered.)
      Guild Expectations:
      So as a guild there are a few things we expect our raiders and recruits to do/know.
      First, we expect our raiders/recruits to know their class fairly well. They should also have a good grasp of the encounters by either having first-hand experience, or by watching tutorials and kill videos online. Knowledge is power as the saying goes.
      Second, we expect players who wish to be part of the core raid team to understand that attendance and showing up on time to raid is important to the success of the guild. We understand when real life issues come up, however it isn’t fair to the other 19 players who showed up if you continuously miss raid because of “reasons”. This is why we want to make sure that our raiders/recruits understand that by joining our raid team, you are making a commitment to the rest of the group to show up every week. Ultimately, we are all individuals working together towards a common goal and our success or failure as a group depends upon people committing to the team.
      Third, we expect our raiders/recruits to be able to take criticism from others. If we notice that you could improve in any manner, we won’t hesitate to point it out. We won't ever attack others for making mistakes, but we will politely let them know of their blunders and how they could improve.
      Fourth, raiders/recruits should be willing to sit out for certain encounters. We know it isn’t the most fun thing to have to sit out on a boss fight, especially if there is loot or if you’ve worked hard getting to that encounter. However, not all fights are created equal and sometimes we have to ask players to sit out in order to have the best group composition to complete the encounter. Your willingness to sit out won’t be forgotten and we try to make sure that everyone gets a chance to kill the boss and get loot.
      Fifth, all recruits are expected to present WarcraftLogs in their applications. This will give us an idea of how you handle mechanics and how well you performed. We understand that your time is valuable and so is ours. By looking at your WarcraftLogs we can get an idea if you can perform within the required range were looking for before bringing you in to raid with us.
      Finally, our guild is made up of players in their early 20’s/mid-30’s and our chat can sometimes get spicy and very adult oriented. We can sometimes talk about off the wall stuff, some of which can get very “Rated R” very fast.
      Contact List:
      Patakra: Braxxas#1433
      Ravenhill: XHunter#1289
      Tehproofter: Tehproofter#1990
      Callmetheo: t455m#1373
      Reji: Rejinald#11466
      Where to Apply:
      http://www.usturkeyism.enjin.com/recruitment
      Our Warcraftlogs:
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/22857
      Our Wowprogress:
      http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/us/stormrage/Turkeyism
      (All guild policies can be found in the website under the section: Forums>Guild Discussion>Turkey Recruits.)
      Thanks for reading and we hope to hear from you soon!
    • By MayorMayo
      Howdy howdy!
       
      Requisite armory link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/aggramar/Mayo/simple Requisite most recent parse: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/character/93755/latest Am I following the Icy Veins rotation? Yup, for the most part, unless I have a brain fart. With that out of the way, I want to start by saying that I’m not unsatisfied by my DPS, but I know that I can do more / do better. 
      I’ve got two of the best legendaries (Ashes to Dust & Chain of Thrayn), two of what I think are the best trinkets. I’ve got the Claw of the Crystalline Scorpid (880) and the Entwined Elemental Foci (890) but don’t use them currently because my sims are showing Convergence of Fates (895) & Might of Krosus (895) being ~7-10k higher, but I’m very open to hearing if maybe the sims aren’t as accurate as I’d like to think they are.
      I’m just... stuck on how to get there. I was hoping that I could get some sage advice from other paladins in here.
      All of your thoughts are most appreciated.
      Thanks,
      Mayo 
    • By Ririxia
      ABOUT US
      We Tried is a mythic progression raiding guild formed by an ambitious raid leader seeking like minded, progression oriented players who would work together towards clearing the latest content while it is still considered relevant. After suffering some roster issues, We Tried merged with Procrastination in late December 2016 and together we have fully cleared Emerald Nightmare Mythic within just two weeks.
      OUR PAST ACCOMPLISHMENTS & FUTURE GOALS
      Although we have since slowed down, we are proud ourselves of holding the realm 27th Nythendra Mythic and 24th Elerathe Renferal Mythic kills.
      Today we are actively working towards forming a raid team that would be able to attain our previous glory and compete on a realm wide level.
      CURRENTLY RECRUITING
      Frost DK
      BM/MM Hunter
      Retri Paladin
      Shadow Priest
      Elemental & Resto Shaman
      Arms/Fury Warrior
      *Applications from exceptional players will always be considered regardless of recruitment status*
      RAID TIMES
      Wednesday 20.30 - 23.00
      Thursday 20.00 - 23.00
      Sunday 20.00 - 23.00
      IDEAL RECRUIT
      Our ideal recruits are players who are passionate about the game and about progress. Each raider is expected to do whatever they can to improve their skills outside of the raiding environment and pull their own weight within the raid.
      We are looking for mythic ready players who, without fail, know the tactics for every boss prior to entering the instance; have solid knowledge of their class and continuously strive to improve themselves; have a near 100% attendance rating; are prepared to wipe often on progression nights and can not only take the constructive criticism that comes their way but are also able to give constructive criticism back, as well as share new ideas and approaches relevant to the content we are clearing at the time.
      CONTACT & INFO
      If you have any questions or concerns you're welcome to contact me in game (Ririxia#2172) or on Discord (Ririxia#1469). You can find more info about our guild, guidelines, raiding policies, trials and the loot system, as well as apply on our website - http://we-tried.enjin.com