Whatcher

Askmrrobot or Wowreforge

Sign in to follow this  

11 posts in this topic

Begining of a new xpac, so I feel like a nub again, and so will ask a nub question. You suggest title sights for helping with gear ench/reforge. After re-evaluating using askmrrobot, I was currious and went to wowreforge, both seem to be using different stat weights, which is the preferred currently? And just to be certain it's clear, yes it's for my paladin.

Edit: just to muddy the waters even more I had been using Reforge Lite, and it also has a slightly different weight'ing but closer to askmrrobot's, than wowreforger.

Edited by Damien

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We discuss our stat priorities with Ask Mr. Robot and we literally spend hours doing so. They go to great lengths to make sure that their stat priorities are correct, so you can trust them on that ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok I have a problem. I use reforgelite and I decided to use AMR to see the difference. I dropped 2k dps. Everything is optimal except for two enchants but I didn't have them before so I should be atleast pulling the same as before if not a little higher according to AMR. What is going on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok I have a problem. I use reforgelite and I decided to use AMR to see the difference. I dropped 2k dps. Everything is optimal except for two enchants but I didn't have them before so I should be atleast pulling the same as before if not a little higher according to AMR. What is going on?

I would like to know how you "measure" your DPS. Is it by doing tests on a training dummy, or is it from raids? Or are you plugging your character into a tool like Simulationcraft, and checking the DPS there.

Unless you are doing the latter, any tests you run are going to be pretty heavily skewed. The main reason is that your sample size is simply too small. On boss fights, between different attempts of the same boss, my DPS varies by as much 10K, and that's with the same set-up exactly.

On the training dummy, you are usually missing many raid buffs, something that is not accounted for when stat weights are calculated (since they all assume a raid environment).

Simulations are the only way to get hundreds (and indeed thousands) of instances of the same fight (same duration, same buffs, same rotation) and be able to compare the results.

May I ask what the stat priority that reforgelite was suggesting for Retribution? We are in agreement with Ask Mr Robot that the best secondary stat after capping Hit and Expertise is Haste. Even Elitist Jerks agrees on this fact. So, were you prioritising Crit or Mastery first, or what exactly is the difference that has caused this apparent loss of DPS?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i dont know if this stat prio is good but i am using this Strength > Hit > Expertise > Haste > Crit >mastery

using reforgelite.

Edited by mrx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to know how you "measure" your DPS. Is it by doing tests on a training dummy, or is it from raids? Or are you plugging your character into a tool like Simulationcraft, and checking the DPS there.

Unless you are doing the latter, any tests you run are going to be pretty heavily skewed. The main reason is that your sample size is simply too small. On boss fights, between different attempts of the same boss, my DPS varies by as much 10K, and that's with the same set-up exactly.

On the training dummy, you are usually missing many raid buffs, something that is not accounted for when stat weights are calculated (since they all assume a raid environment).

Simulations are the only way to get hundreds (and indeed thousands) of instances of the same fight (same duration, same buffs, same rotation) and be able to compare the results.

May I ask what the stat priority that reforgelite was suggesting for Retribution? We are in agreement with Ask Mr Robot that the best secondary stat after capping Hit and Expertise is Haste. Even Elitist Jerks agrees on this fact. So, were you prioritising Crit or Mastery first, or what exactly is the difference that has caused this apparent loss of DPS?

I test my dps on the training dummies. AMR is saying to reforge to haste but RFL is saying mastery. I understand that robot takes into account raid buffs but either way i shouldn't have dropped dps going from mastery to haste as my priority stat (after hit and exp). It is not that big of a deal concidering ret is an off spec but it just caught my eye and i decided to ask.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are the stat weights on AMR and RFL the same? Since one is recommending haste and one is recommending mastery it seems they are not.

you can adjust your stat weights in both if you want to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are the stat weights on AMR and RFL the same? Since one is recommending haste and one is recommending mastery it seems they are not.

you can adjust your stat weights in both if you want to.

No the stat weights are different on the two. AMR is weighted for haste and atm RFL is weighted for mastery. I know i can adjust the weights but am unsure what to put, as I have never really messed with that stuff and the way RFL is set up is kind of confussing for me.

I thoroughly believe haste is best atm for ret due to a lower gcd and lower cd on spells. I am not sure why I had the drop in dps but my guess would be because almost all the gear anymore is coming mastery heavy which makes it very hard to get the haste rating at lower ilvl gear (468).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cannot speak to the value of ReforgeLite's stat weights, because I have no idea whatsoever how they are obtained.

One thing I can think of as to why Haste might not be giving you the results you should get is that you aren't taking full advantage of it, that is to say that you're wasting some of it by not using your abilities on cooldown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The stat weights will always vary,this is due to the complex interaction of stats. As you get more stacked in one stat, for ret, the others start to gain in importance (depending upon the ratio). You can only know your own actual values by running sims. Simulationcraft and Exemplar's spreadsheet (EJ forums) are the 2 most common sims at this time.

Priority remains:

Hit to cap > Strength > Expertise to cap > Haste > Mastery > Crit

Those values however are based on BiS gear. If you are in pre-raid gear the stat priority can fluctuate some.

You should not see a major fluctuation in dps however if you are properly following the priority with good execution. The links below demonstrate how comfortable the Upper Level theorycrafters are with this priority.

http://www.icy-veins.com/retribution-paladin-wow-pve-dps-statistics-priority-reforging

http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t130889-ret_5_0_4_mop_retribution_concordance_retcon_panda_ing_dps_meters/

http://www.methodwow.com/board/showthread.php?11365-MoP-Retribution-Paladin-Guide

If you are not interested in simming results specifically for your character, my recommendation would be to follow http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear and it will not guide you far from wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Violentravi
      Hello,
      The Sworn is recruiting DPS. We are a Horde guild on Arthas and our current progression is 5/11 Mythic Antorus. We only raid two nights a week, Tuesday and Wednesday from 9:15 PM until 12:15 AM Eastern. Currently, our main goal is to push Mythic progression & finish out the raid before next patch, please keep this in mind if you wish to join us, because we will not be doing Heroic or anything like that.
      From you, we would expect 100% attendance during your trial period; after that if you cannot make a raid or will be late it is mandatory to keep the raid leader updated. In order to continue making good progression while raiding only two nights a week, we expect that you know your class inside-out and will research any bosses you are unfamiliar with prior to raids.
      As far as classes are concerned, at this time, we do not have ANY rogues, DPS warriors, havoc DH, or wind walkers.
      If you are interested, add me to battle tag and we will talk (violentravi#1826), I will accept mostly anyone who wants to be a bench or casual, but for raiding purposes, you must be able to provide logs.
      Thank you for your consideration
      Xoxo
      Violentnacho
    • By Slytha
      i have a dps monk and i noticed the greyed out stat when i was lvling my monk up and because i am a returning player i have no idea what it is and i noticed it swaps with agility when u change ur spec to mistwalker and my question is, can i use my current gear to heal or not?
    • By Pain
      Hello guys i would like to share my weakauras for each healing class, hope you like it ;)
      Any feedback is appreciated
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      New to Weakauras ?
      You can download it here :
      https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/weakauras-2
      Copy - paste the code of which you can find down below  (Import string) On the wago.io webpage links you can find a copy string button on the right, colored red.
      Like this :  When ingame type /wa to open the control panel of weakaura. Select "import" Paste the string from the wago webpage into this. A screen will pop-up and select the import button on it. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Update Log 
      01-07-17 : Massive update for Holy Priest Healing tool !
      16-07-17 : Big improvement for the Druid Healing tool. 
      29-07-17 : Shaman healing tool now supports legendary's and trinkets from 7.2.5
      25-08-17 : Massive update for Disc Priest healing tool 
      26-08-17 : Tuned Paladin and Druid healing tool and some small improvements
      02-09-17 : Small update for Holy Priest healing tool
      15-09-17 : Shaman healing tool now supports PvP feature's and some tuning to Paladin healing tool
      22-11-17 : Shaman healing tool has been redesigned and improved !
      26-11-17 : Added global cooldown to shaman and paladin healing tool and abit of fine tuning.
      28-11-17 : Druid healing tool has been Redisgned and added global cooldown.
      03-12-17 : Some improvements to the Paladin healing tool
      25-01-18 : Some changes to Shaman and Druid healing tool
      03-02-18 : Massive update for Holy palading healing tool !
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Summary :
      Shaman Druid Paladin Priest Monk ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Shaman 

      Resto Shaman - Healing Tool
       
      Import string :  https://wago.io/SJAG4cTub        ←
      ________________________________________________________
      What's making sound :
      Riptide - off cooldown
      Healing rain - off cooldown
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Resto Shaman - Small Healing Tool
      If you prefer a smaller setup, you might like this one. (But doesnt cover everything)

      Import string :  https://wago.io/H1SpVcaOZ        ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Resto Shaman - Usable cooldowns

      Import string :  https://wago.io/S1u7HqpdZ       ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
       
      Druid 
      Druid - Healing Tool

      Import string :  https://wago.io/H1ZvS9p_b       ←
      _______________________________________________________
      What's making sound :
      Life-Bloom - when its about to expire from target
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

      Paladin
      Paladin - Healing tool

      Import string : https://wago.io/BkQJU96dZ        ←
      ________________________________________________________
      What's making sound :
      Holyshock - off cooldown
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Paladin - Usable cooldowns 

      Import string :  https://wago.io/r1jnNOQ8M      ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Paladin - Light of Dawn info *additional*

      Import string : https://wago.io/HyrN6y4YZ         ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Priest
      Holy Priest - Healing Tool

       
      Import string : https://wago.io/H1PU8qa_Z        ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Holy Priest - Trail of light Talent Tracker *Additional*

      Import string :  https://wago.io/EyclhaZuZ        ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
       
      Disc Priest - Healing Tool

      Import string :  https://wago.io/SyCn89TdZ        ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
       
      Monk
      Since i know little about monk healing, i do not feel like ill be the right person to try and make a weakaura
      for the monk, but i've got a link from someone else his. Since i still want to be some what helpfull to
      any healing class.
      https://wago.io/4yaTFmN6G        ←
      *credits to Emarline*
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    • By Exploit
      Hi everyone,
      I, like many others, are trying to maximize DPS for their respective classes, mine in particular being ret paladin.
      In general, it seems like there are several sources of information for dps for each class.
      Icy Veins Mr Robot Raidbots (Simulation Craft) Warcraft Logs Each with its own set of criteria as to what determines high dps. And I find inconsistency when bouncing between the different sources. I want to understand what am I missing when it comes to each. I will lay out what I currently understand, and would like some feedback as to what I may not be considering in each as well as some advice as to what other options I could be exploring (resources) to further the insight into whats applicable for my current state.
      Icy Veins
      For Icy Veins, in particular, the stat weights, are mostly vaguely determined. From the ret guide:
       
      If I am reading this right, its Mastery >= Haste > Ver >= Crit = Str
      Mr Robot
      I use the addOn and I subscribe for the Best In Bags function. When I plug in my information in, the site recommends that I go with my 2pce t20 and balance around my legendaries with a focus on haste pieces (haste gems are emphasized).
      https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/a42136294c7f40b2b7ee78023306d786
      Stat weights as listed in MrRobot:
      MrRobot Stat Weights
      From what I am seeing, Crit is most emphasized, and the one crit gem + ring crit enchants were originally recommended by MrRobot here. Also another notable thing here is haste being way behind crit's potential.
      RaidBots (Simc)
      For RaidBots, I use the addOn, and play around with various items I hoard, and use the stat weights functions. Generally the feedback I get here are to stick with the current gem setup and with regards to stat weights, emphasize at my current setup with crit. It also says I should drop some of my high ilvl pieces (935 head, and 960 chest) for 4pce (915 head, lfr 890 chest)
      Gear simc:
      https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d3Qbkf6nqpoP4bxQ9YB2m
      Stat Weights:
      https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6NkVYwEaTW26FxD4wBwey4
      Vers -> crit -> mastery -> haste -> str
      (versitality first?)
      Warcraft Logs
      I mostly use Warcraft Logs to check what the top dps players (ret pallys) are hitting and what setups are they running. I don't want to specifically link player armories in here, but upon some investigation, you'll find most are just stacking haste
      ---
      I understand stat weights are relative, however it seems like everyone has different priorities, one says mastery, another vers, another crit, another haste?
      Help me understand.
      Thanks,
      Exploit