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Heroes of the Storm Azmodan

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So I'm now up to 9 build variations for Azmodan. Three Tide of Sin, three All Shall Burn, and three Demonic Invasion builds, one for each Globe of Annihilation talent. Azmodan really is a very adaptive character.

All Shall Burns are more of a fun collection of builds. Been testing Demonic Invasion recently.

It's definitely inferior to Tide of Sin, but it has it's uses.

It's three most important uses are, Quick Camp Captures, Burst Siege Damage, and Burst Hero Damage.

It's cooldown means that it can't do these things often though, which is painful after playing with Tide of Sin.

However, on certain maps, that cooldown is better than not getting camps or forts at all, mostly from not surviving the experience.

It also enables Azmodan to do more things solo due to the reduction in time to do those things.

On two lane maps, maps with many hidden areas, many useful camps, or short important fights, it can be useful.

Would I use it in a competitive match just yet? No, but it might get to that point with a bit of practice.

I'm not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to map timing strategies, so maybe someone can help test that out more?

Kinda feels like I'm playing a slower but tougher Murky.

New Azmodan Rework - 9 Build Variations

Edited by Morcalivan

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To BadIdeas,

Thought Gluttony was best too. Problem is that even with cooldown, certain healing/shielding combos shake it off. Then there is the need to use Tide of Sin on minions instead of heroes. That 20 second cooldown isn't longer but it is twice that cooldown of a Globe.

Greed can therefore keep twice the lanes clear that Gluttony can while keeping Tide of Sin primed for heroes. It can also do extra damage to mercenaries, clearing them quicker. Saving forts more easily over a shorter time.

The primary advantage of Bombardment is to get early stacks without landing on heroes, which while fairly easy in most cases, can sometimes be stretched by the number of team fights. By having minions as an alternative you can keep stacking when not team fighting.

And wiping out lanes allows your teammates to save their mana and abilities for heroes. Increasing overall team damage AND defense. It also allows your team to stick together more instead of splitting for lanes.

So I'd say not Gluttony every game, but when it's best suited to maps/comps where it is most likely to impact bottlenecks the most.

I aggree that Wrath is dangerous though. And All Shall Burn can be, but ASB can also be used to help your teammates greatly and can only be done at closer ranges.

As for only grabbing Azmo on certain maps where Gluttony shines, that doesn't helpm on Quickmatch.

Black Pool is also not useless. Yes, people avoid. Its armour reduction and damage do not really affect heroes often. But thats the benefit. Avoiance. This is for those comps that can shake off Globes. Comps that can hold areas. This discourages that. It is more of a defensive and less an offensive power.

Edited by Morcalivan

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After another 5 levels of testing on rework, now up to 25 lvls after update. Lvl 30 in total.

These are the three builds I now use, though Wrath is still a little iffy at the moment.

 

Greed - Pushing Tide - https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/azmodan#35.0!1322323

1 - Greed

4 - Battleborn

7 - Bombardment

10 - Tide of Sin

13 - Chain of Command

16 - Hell Rift

20 - Pride

Still good at mult-lane pushing once it hits 200 stacks. Can single lane push easily when you globe minions and All Shall Burn zone out heroes. Just be cautious of flanking. Don't go deep and use your Globes to push lanes with your Lieutenant from afar if need be. Your All Shall Burn upgrade and Lieutenant cooldown reduction all combines well with your wave wiping abilities to do some quick and easy structure assaults. Just don't stay too long. Once you use your ASB, get out of there and keep your minions' focus on structures by Globe wiping incoming waves.

 

Gluttony - Team Annihilation - https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/azmodan#35.0!2212113

1 - Gluttony

4 - Hellforged Armor

7 - Art of Chaos

10 - Tide of Sin

13 - Brutish Vanguard

17 - Total Annihilation

20 - Pride

Gluttony is as reliable as ever. Just bomb and use Demonic Warrior to scout for your team as you punish them for grouping and doing it very often over a longer period of time. As long as your team is cautious it starts to wear on the enemy and gives you really fast stacking.

 

Wrath - One Shall Burn - https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/azmodan#35.0!3322234

1 - Wrath

4 - Battleborn

7 - Bombardment

10 - Tide of Sin

13 - Cydaea's Kiss

16 - Sin's Grasp

20 - Trample

Wrath seems to be for though who want to body block and skirmish constantly. It is very difficult to stack even when in the thick of it with Bombardment though since you need to time it properly to not get killed for doing it. To me, this seems like it is only for holding objectives and body blocking to your team advantage with All Shall Burn used as much as possible. If you don't like to All Shall Burn and basic attack, do not take Wrath.

Edited by Morcalivan
Calculator Links Added, Edited Wrath Build

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 I am an Az main and I tried the basic attack build.  it is CRAP.  Maybe in theory it works, but in practice it does not.  With the big health nerf he got, there is no way you can stand in there and attack away, you still have to rely on spells.  He has too big of a hit box to play that way (easy swap target for Artanis, for example).

I still prefer all stacking on hero skills.  He can be a bit underwhelming early game (like Naz), but late game can be imposing.  I have gotten the best results doing that build for sure, not the basic attack one.

 

Edited by ArtVandelay

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I don't understand it either. Blizzard forums are full of people using the Wrath build. Is it because of the previous Azmodan before rework? Makes no sense to me why so many people would grab Wrath. What is the purpose of taking Azmodan over other characters then? Just silly.

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Guest eastdragon42
On 7/17/2018 at 12:39 AM, Guest BadIdeas said:

I agree with the guide that Hellforged Armor is best at level 4. As I already stated, you don't want to be at basic attack range, and getting two demon warriors at twice the cd provides no real benefit.

At 13 I personally get Brutish Vanguard, the same as the guide mostly for the slow aura. It can really help with escapes and objective control. The laser boost just doesn't do enough to be worth the risk of getting in that close, and while I see potential for the demon lieutenants, the slow effect is just far more useful in far more situations. 

Army of Hell actually works well with Brutish Vanguard, as the 20% slow stacks.  Also, if you're having mana issues from constant globing & use of All Shall Burn, then having a doubled CD actually helps to keep you from spamming your W.  And having doubled warriors to more quickly take down a mercenary camp or tower also shouldn't be underestimated.  Just something to consider....

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Guide updated. Gluttony with Siegebreaker added... *sigh*

Still no Greed build or explanations on existing choices.

At least Wrath is no longer first to be recommended.

Should save some lives at least.

On a side note, got guide of the week for my Azmo builds on heroesfire.com, so that was a nice surprise.

Edited by Morcalivan

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I don't agree that Battleborn and Chain of Command are bad talents. First, the Demon Warriors' health bar gets pretty quickly depleted. That's why it's better to frequently spam Demon Warriors that having one on a long CD. For example, the Battleborn talent is pretty good at soloing camps: Azmo does this well, especially having enough stacks, and provided his All Shall Burn's high damage, he can even solo Support Camps taking no damage with Battleborn talent. Also, this talent synergizes well with Bombardment, as it  allows to deliever basic attacks in the  teamfights more frequently and triple basic attacks provide triple cooldown reduction. Having both of these talents make the Chain of Command worth picking as they enable the Demon Lieutenant more uptime and greater split-pushing especially if you took (soloed) a merc camp before.

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Siege isn't good. You say it can destroy a fort or keep but then you go on to say how many Globes you use during that time. That's not quick. And ignoring Hell Rift? No wonder you're using Siege, your demons do 50% damage, 75% less without Chain of Command, 150% without Army of Hell. If you use Greed instead of Gluttony or Wrath then you can wipe minion wave after minion wave so that your demons can focus on dealing structure damage. Globes are a horrible way of dealing structure damage. ASB, Demons and Basic Attacks are your main tool. Using Globes on buildings leaves yourself open to less hero/minion damage when you need it. And you will need it. The lack of Chain of Command is just odd for that strategy either way. It boosts your Demonic Invasion, and your Mercs, which is kinda important.

Saying Battleborn is bad? It allows for more skillshot blocks, more global split pushing, more slows. Demon Warriors die fast no matter what. Battleborn makes sure they have more up time just like Hellforged Armour. When you use Wrath, Battleborn lets you solo a lane with your Bombarment enhancements while also sending out Lieutenants to push other lanes and assist teammates.

Master of Destruction, Cydaeae's Kiss and Sin's Grasp are all pretty bad unless you're fooling around with ASB for kicks.

Hell Rift is amazing versus merc camps and structures. So it does less hero damage. That's why you grab it with Greed. Magnify those demon warrior charges to structures and mercs even further. Makes for very quick capping and sieging, leaving you more time to travel which is the biggest reduction in pushing for Greed. The range boost helps but the only real thing to slow it down is traaveling so you can reach that third lane after you wipe minions are two others.

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I think you do 6500 at level 10 instead of 5500 with Chain of Command. So you might do 7500 with Siegebreaker. Assuming your little guys all last long enough to do so. The numbers would differ at level 20 obviously.

Army of Hell can match Az's auto attack dps on its own and more guaranteed to land a slow. Hellforged does 65%, Battleborn can do 75% with constant respawn and short distances, less over greater distances. It does nearly halve the cd for Lts though even without Bombardment, which can take a further 9 seconds away every Globe (10 seconds) in roughly 3 seconds. Which is basically a 20 second cd for push a top lane. Add that to a Tide of Sin wave wipe on bottom lane and you in middle and you can push all three lanes in a few short moments.

And while you can ignore objectice for this you can also just push two lanes instead of 3 while launching Globes into the objective area.

If you want to further focus on obj then grab Gluttony at the cost of Lt and Bombardment damage to lanes. Wrath if you want to jump right in. However, in most cases you can take some towers or a fort as objective is first showing up thanka to ASB/Warrior/Auto damage. So if your team is confortable and not suicidal you can take advantage of it similarly to Artanis but without the non-hero talent. Chain of Command also works on minions waves. So if you wipe a wave with Tide of Sin Globe and your wave hits with full numbers that's a lot of damage before those towers or keep finaly take them down. Not to mention cannon shields to your demons. If you went Army of Hell route the reduced armour doesn't matter if they are shielded by minions.

Yes, Hellforged and brutish Vanguard are great talents and so are Gluttony and Wrath.

But ignoring Greed, Army of Hell, Bombardment, Chain of Command, Hell Rift, Sin's Grasp is reducing Azmodan's great strenfth at the moment which is his versatility. He should at least have 3 builds. One for each Globe. Even if you only recommend Greed for a single map like Spider Queen it should still be there.

And yes Sin's Grasp has issues. But if you ASB successfully vs Towers and Heroes all the time then not so much. Like Hell Rift it adds siege damage. It also adds range and safety if you like that kinda thing. I still usually grab Total Annihilation. It is a great talent. But the other two can help you id you are trying to do siege damage. If you're going to recommend Siegebreaker then all lvl 16 talents should be as well as Chain of Command and Battleborn/Army of Hell.

And if warriors are used to block skill shots and add slow then Army of Hell also needs to be considered for double the wall size and slow radius with a double slow % center. It's also 25% health per Warrior. 50% more health overall. Not as good as armour but distributed over two bodies to target.

The only talents I wouldn't want to grab would be Master of Destruction ( not for your reason of not finishing channels) due to no one ever being inside the blast radius for stacks, Cydaea's Kiss (only really heals against towers or mercs, away from heroes), and Siegebreaker (long cd, fragile delivery and can be done with Chain of Command and Pride wave wiping/minion boosting). Not sure why you said that about Master of Destruction. ASB channels are finished all the time. It's a primary part of Az's kill rate.

Everything else has its place.

Edited by Morcalivan

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Been playing with Army and Hell and Demonic Invasion a lot more recently since they were the least I played with when rework first came out.

There are good and bad points, but when playing Gluttony, Tide of Sin is best overall. Army of Hell does well with all Globes just like the other two talents. It is a very good siege tool on its own, does well for blocking shots/enemies with double-wider slow from Brutish Vanguard, and further siege/hero damage with Chain of Command. Things already known but was playing around with DI at the same time so I could see it's effectiveness more on minions as well.

DI does some good burst, and has defensive uses, but here's where it has issues. Wave clear. If you want to get to an enemy fort to use DI, you need to wave clear quickly so that they don't respond and gank you. Now, DI can be good as you described vs structures obviously. The problem is that trying to sneak in a DI fort wipe is not faster than wiping with Tide then doing that fort wipe with demons/auto attack/asb.

The difference is you are less at risk of discovery and are doing a good amount of damage on a fort even if discovered if you don't go DI. If you want to wave wipe at rapid speeds without DI then you need demons and a lieutenant, and preferably bombardment. Not that that will wipe as fast as a Tide of Sin globe, but it'll close the gap. This however, reveals your position and your intentions.

If you globe wipe, once, twice, three times over 60 seconds. No one has to know where you are or what you're up to. Your teammates can draw attention and you can go to a far lane and quickly wave and cast your demons and start ASBing the tower not being attacked. Pretty soon there is no tower or wall left and you can recast demons and ASB to help take down fort. Back away to then fire wave wipes on incoming minion waves and defenders and move to a new lane.

If you had chosen DI, you would most likely have had to use it to defend yourself since you revealed your position. Hero damage is the reason you grab DI. Siege damage comes as a 'win more' tool with teammates or absent enemies. Which is hardly something to choose it for. DI does do well versus heroes. Whether they are alone or grouped. Even if the damage is not very much when grouped, the distraction is there and it adds collision clutter to slow them down. Since Azmodan is often a gank target, this is a useful tool, more so when using yourself as bait then using it to counter-attack alongside ASB and warriors/lt. That's why Army of Hell and Chain of Command does well. However the double slow like I said, also works with the warriors to further keep enemies in range of your DI/ASB. Since people attacking you usually ignore your warriors off the start, your Army of Hell can get the slow effect in before you counter with DI and ASB, making them more likely to deal the most damage.

As I said though, there is a way to wave clear without Tide of Sin.

That uses Army of Hell, which can match your auto attack damage, Bombarment, to add 4 auto attacks over 2 seconds every 10 seconds, Globe to add double auto attacks to all targets every 10 seconds +stack damage, and your Lieutenant, who can buff that warrior + minion ally damage. This is capable of letting you get your DI in if there are only a single wave between you and the fort before being ambushed in most cases. But it's those other cases that make you dead or using your DI to save yourself, which means no fort damage.

Also since you don't wave wipe from afar every 20 seconds, your push is pretty narrow and leaves the other forts unchallenged, at least by you, and allows their waves to possibly push onto your forts. Unless your stacking is very good and you can use base Globes on waves to help teammates/minions push and then use DI to add Hero damage.

Coordinating for boss capping has proven a bit difficult overall. DI is great for it, but not on it's own. So either the whole team ends up helping and negating the use of it, or not enough help to secure the boss quickly after the initial DI damage (without enemy doing so). So the timing is going to take some more practice. Having it used on an already weakened Boss has proven the most game winning so far.

Now both Army of Hell and Demonic Invasion demons share the same traits. Higher burst damage, more easily killed, longer cooldowns. You need other shields/distractions if you want them to do their full damage. Minions, mercs, teammates, structures, even yourself. As long as your demons' target has another target then that's the time to use them. If you can do that they should perform to their best.

Still like Battleborn for split pushing. Hellforged Armour is still good for scouting and grouping up minion waves for perfect globes. So all three lvl 4s are very useful. Battleborn has some trouble with Gluttony, but all other lvl 4s work well with the other 3 Globes based on playstyle.

Same with heroic.

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Guest Update?

The guide says it was updated yesterday but I don't see any difference in talents recommendations or anything at all really. Was there a mistake?

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5 hours ago, Guest Update? said:

The guide says it was updated yesterday but I don't see any difference in talents recommendations or anything at all really. Was there a mistake?

I believe there was a mistake in the changelog, we'll get it fixed - AFAIK, no changes were required for Azmodan, despite the patch. They had little impact on his playstyle/strategies.

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Guest BadIdeas

Why do you guys recommend that bad ult choice? If you are going full gluttony, then go full gluttony, don't ef it up with a bad ult. Every other talent is correct, but that ult is garbage for a gluttony build. You get 4.5 tides of sin for every demonic invasion. Then you get pride on 20 for 100 more damage and I am almost certain Blizzard screwed up the area calculation and it is actually a 15% increase to diameter, which equates to a much bigger area increase. By taking demonic invasion from level 10-20 azmo get slightly better burst and better siege, at the cost of a lot of sustained dps. Since the current Azmo is all about sustained teamfight dps, that is a bad trade. Not only that, at 20, you get even better siege with demonic invasion, but weaker burst, and far far worse sustained dps.

Azmo is now a AOE teamfight dps, not a solo pusher. Trying to make him fill his old role by assigning him a bad build is stupid. Not only that, but if you win teamfights, you can free push, so his ability to push better with demonic invasion is completely negated by his ability to win fights with tide of sin + pride.

Honestly, every time I see an Azmo go demonic invasion, I know he is without doubt a trash noob. 

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Just saying that Level 13 Chain of Command does increase the Basic Attack damage of the Demonic Grunts (PS: This has always been the case). 

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