positiv2

The most "cancerous" decks

36 posts in this topic

Hi,

I would like to ask you, what decks do you think are the most cancerous (as in irritating to play against)?

For me it would be Secret Paladin and Zoo. Secret Paladin and its Dr. 6, sometimes followed by Dr. 7 and/or Tirion. MC is one of the strongest cards in the game, as he can be worth up to 11 mana of cards for just 6 mana. There is Get Down! and Avenge combo in the paladin secrets, but they get played at the same time! 

Then there is zoo with its pesky minion buffing and flooding the board. There is also the Egg+Buff combo, which can ruin your day. Fearlessly tapping, they never fully run out of steam. 

Now, what are the decks you despise and why?

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I don't like playing against Reno decks - I get them down to lethal range and then they play Reno and I'm all "I have to do that again? Dammit."

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I kind-of dread aggro Druids. You know what the game is from the start, they just start relentlessly hitting your face and you know you haven't really got 30 health to play with. Any time from turn 7 onwards they can burst 14 damage or more on you. Sometimes they suffer with the card draw even before they are able to get an AoL out (if they have one) which is nice, but when they don't they're trouble.

Worse though is the Freeze Mage. Fist-chewingly, screaming into a pillow, cat-kickingly frustrating.

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Secret paladin is by far the most disgusting deck in the game right now. Not only is it an auto pilot deck that allows people who belong at rank 10 to get to legend(maybe it is an exageration, but i'm not sure it is too far off), it can also destroy anything else in the game when it gets a good draw, even the so called "counter" decks. I have recently been playing face shaman a lot to counter them, but even though I win most games I still hate playing against them. But I do believe they will eventually be nerfed.

 

Midrange druid comes at second place for me as I consider the deck very easy to play, and it is easily one of the best decks over the whole lifespan of the game. If you put those two things together you have cancer. Not to mention they have shredder as a one drop every other game against me.

Edited by batanete

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Hey, good news everyone! Thanks to the current Tavern Brawl we now have Freeze Mages that can armour up!

Deep, deep joy.

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Very few things make me salty, but I guess I can come up with some that do.

 

  • Tempo/Casino/Cancer/Whateveritscalled mage: Because losing to a bunch of spammed RNG is annoying as hell.
  • Freeze mage: Does this even need explaining? Spend about 15 turns faffing about trying to think of a way to win only to still end up losing exactly as you expected to 20min earlier, when the game began. Interaction is nice.
  • Any other mage using secrests. Mage secrets are stoopid mkay.
  • Any combo druid (ramp, token, deathrattle, ..) because being able to predict your death 1 or 2 turns in advance and knowing that there's sweet fuck all you can do about it with your current hand is annoying.
  • Mill rogue. I'm not even going to explain this one. Please stop existing.
  • Secret paladin because secrets, secrest and OMFG SECRETS
  • Combowarlock (the facelessPO kind) because I never expect it and then BOOM. Dreams shattered. Souls crushed.
  • Faceshaman for just having too much unstoppable BS going on. One lucky hero power spellpower roll and you can watch the fireworks go off on your face. Throw in a couple lucky RNG rolls as well with the damage for extra salt.
  • Facehunter because the tactic of only going face is mindnumbingly boring to play against.
  • Murlock anythings because frogs are Fernch and nobody likes those. Right? Oui!

 

That should cover it. Sort of.

Edited by PaasKonijn

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Hey, good news everyone! Thanks to the current Tavern Brawl we now have Freeze Mages that can armour up!

Deep, deep joy.

I just used Secret Paladin. But with Majordomo. Majordomo makes everything fun. This brawl was fun, but as long as meta decks win more than "fun decks", the brawl effect was just too weak.

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I don't know about cancerous, but roulette mage tilts me to no end.  I have fairly bad luck in this game, like last game i played a patient assassin popped out of the shredder I killed with geddon's effect and earlier tonight the mech mage I was playing against deathlorded an Andonitas on turn 4 and had the stealth spare part on hand (also I have only played like 10 games tonight), and just some of the stupid stuff that happens with casino mage makes me froth at the mouth.  Aside from that, as a connoisseur of oil rogue and freeze mage, Reno decks make me cry.

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Very few things make me salty, but I guess I can come up with some that do.

 

  • Tempo/Casino/Cancer/Whateveritscalled mage: Because losing to a bunch of spammed RNG is annoying as hell.
  • Freeze mage: Does this even need explaining? Spend about 15 turns faffing about trying to think of a way to win only to still end up losing exactly as you expected to 20min earlier, when the game began. Interaction is nice.
  • Any other mage using secrests. Mage secrets are stoopid mkay.
  • Any combo druid (ramp, token, deathrattle, ..) because being able to predict your death 1 or 2 turns in advance and knowing that there's sweet fuck all you can do about it with your current hand is annoying.
  • Mill rogue. I'm not even going to explain this one. Please stop existing.
  • Secret paladin because secrets, secrest and OMFG SECRETS
  • Combowarlock (the facelessPO kind) because I never expect it and then BOOM. Dreams shattered. Souls crushed.
  • Faceshaman for just having too much unstoppable BS going on. One lucky hero power spellpower roll and you can watch the fireworks go off on your face. Throw in a couple lucky RNG rolls as well with the damage for extra salt.
  • Facehunter because the tactic of only going face is mindnumbingly boring to play against.
  • Murlock anythings because frogs are Fernch and nobody likes those. Right? Oui!

 

That should cover it. Sort of.

Which deck do you think is NOT cancerous lol... 

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I know people say Mill rogue is cancerous but I personally did not think so. You know pretty early on that you are against a mill rogue and you can sort of begin to play accordingly. LAst time I played against one it ended in a pretty fun draw. I brought him down to 7 health or 3 health. HE used Brann BRonzebeard and started using coldlights. Milled himself and me to death.

 

I find secrets generally to be a bit annoying at times. So yes having to deal with a whole portrait full of shiny yellow dots which will buff something the second you attack is annoying. 

 

I used to find priests annoying before face roll paladin, but my face shaman can deal with them fine. The other annoying deck is Warrior after he has Justicar true hearted!

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Which deck do you think is NOT cancerous lol... 

 

 

I don't mind losing to more midrange/control style decks. Sometimes. tongue.png

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Hey, good news everyone! Thanks to the current Tavern Brawl we now have Freeze Mages that can armour up!

Deep, deep joy.

I just used Secret Paladin. But with Majordomo. Majordomo makes everything fun. This brawl was fun, but as long as meta decks win more than "fun decks", the brawl effect was just too weak.

 

Interesting.

 

I did play Freeze Mage in this Tavern Brawl, but mostly because I had both the 'Win 5 Tavern Brawls' and the 'Win 5 times with Mage' quest. And, well, because I like to play Freeze Mage. smile.png

 

All I met were death rattlers and one murloc shaman. Well, sample size was only 7 matches.

 

------

 

Oh, and back to topic:

 

Since, as I said above, Freeze Mage is my favorite constructed deck, the most cancerous deck in the game obviously is Control Warrior. 

Edited by Kobal
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Which deck do you think is NOT cancerous lol... 

 

 

I don't mind losing to more midrange/control style decks. Sometimes. tongue.png

 

If you believe midrange decks are inherently any less cancerous than aggro or combo, you represent everything that is wrong with this game.

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I don't mind losing to more midrange/control style decks. Sometimes. tongue.png

If you believe midrange decks are inherently any less cancerous than aggro or combo, you represent everything that is wrong with this game.

 

So you have bigger problems with decks such as Midrange shaman than with Secret Pally or Freeze mage? You have bigger problems with dragon priest (the midrange builds) than with tempo mage or SMOrc? Midrange decks fight for board control and if you are able to limit their board control, you win. On the other hand, you have face hunter who just goes face and you can only win by healing enough health, dropping taunts or killing them earlier. Combo decks just survive into the late-game, drop the combo and kill you the same or the next turn. Not really fun to be honest.

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I don't mind losing to more midrange/control style decks. Sometimes. tongue.png

If you believe midrange decks are inherently any less cancerous than aggro or combo, you represent everything that is wrong with this game.

 

So you have bigger problems with decks such as Midrange shaman than with Secret Pally or Freeze mage? You have bigger problems with dragon priest (the midrange builds) than with tempo mage or SMOrc? Midrange decks fight for board control and if you are able to limit their board control, you win. On the other hand, you have face hunter who just goes face and you can only win by healing enough health, dropping taunts or killing them earlier. Combo decks just survive into the late-game, drop the combo and kill you the same or the next turn. Not really fun to be honest.

 

I said inherently more cancerous, which is to say I have no problem with many of the decks you have mentioned(and by the way, outside this weeks brawl I think freeze mage is perfectly fine as a deck). But as a whole, I do think decks like midrange druid, hunter and especially secret paladin are a lot more annoying than things like face hunter or aggro pally, as these decks take a lot more decision making to play well with and tend to be a lot more easy to counter too.

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@positiv2 I like playing with combo decks. I guess it reminds me of movies and cartoons as a kid, where the good guy is loosing and getting beat pretty badly and then gets one big power surge or emotional moment and lets it all out at once to turn the tide of battle and defeat the bad guy :)

 

Freeze mage feels more like someone just running away from you while slowing you down, as you're trying to chase them with a sword. Not THAT fun to play against I admit. But I don't hate it.

 

While having a powerful combo coming to deal burst damage may seem unfair I feel there is the downside attached to it of having to control, draw and survive long enough to grab all the pieces. Combo druid it seems does not have this downside since they need only two pieces to combo and the more they get the more powerful and inescapable the burst, and the rest of their cards that help them get to this point, are good on their own too.

 

 

Playing against a combo deck I like to pretend im in one of those episode where if the enemy collects all the parts of a puzzle they can end the world and I have to stop them from getting all the pieces. OFC I will never know how many pieces they have.

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Face and aggro decks.

Omg these decks just makes me go mad.I am a player who keeps the board clear and controlled.But when I have so many minions these player just go my face and finish me.I dont know, I just dont wanna rush things and play late game.I dont mind losing to secret pallys or freeze mages.From time to time I can beat them.But sometimes playing against a mill rogue can be frustrating :P

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any deck with Reno in it - no way should any one card (even a legendary) have that much power to swing the game from one end to the other, a card with no counter and no telltale signs that your opponent holds it in his hand (such as the play of other cards that might synergise with it)

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any deck with Reno in it - no way should any one card (even a legendary) have that much power to swing the game from one end to the other, a card with no counter and no telltale signs that your opponent holds it in his hand (such as the play of other cards that might synergise with it)

 

While I understand where you are coming from, Reno becomes more of a problem when you are facing him with an aggro deck. 

If you have a strong board control, and you opponent has failed to respond to your threats before turn 6, Reno will only delay the inevitable. you can keep pushing for damage, take care of the 4/6 body, not giving him enough time to recover.

 

With enough practice and knowledge about enemy decks, you can at times tell if the opposing is using a reno deck. If the opponent is playing cards you normally wouldn't expect, or cards you know are mediocre because of a better version available, you can expect a reno. (e.g a mage uses arcane explosion instead of arcane missiles, chances are he is using Reno because he was bound by the 1 copy per card use and couldn't use two missiles. Warlock using sunfury protector instead of defender of argus.) If I notice the enemy using such offbeat cards and not using a second copy of anything, I get careful about using all my resources since I will have to take him down back from 30. The second i see him use a second copy of anything, I just go all out because chances are he either doesn't have reno, or wont be able to heal from it too soon.

 

Iceblock + Reno = grrrrrrrrrrrr!

Molten giant + Reno = grrrrrrr!

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For me it's Renolock. They burn their life drawing cards and flooding the board and when you think you might him at lethal, Reno save the day. But I love the variety of construction now. It use to be you see a hero and knew from the start what you are facing. Now you have to feel it out for a few turns before you kind of have and Idea. There are a lot of cards that are being used that people aren't used to facing and it's winning them games. I like that. Me personally, I'm running a Midrange Beast Hunter. But I'm subbing Ram Wrangler for Ball of Spiders. I like it and I'm enjoying it. Isn't that what it's about? My point is the Meta is always changing. Yes SP can be a pain in the ass, and Renolock, and Face Shaman. But the only way to change this is to change your game up and make your own pain in the ass deck. The meta is Rock, Paper, Scissors. one deck does not rule all. Everything has a counter. 

 

P.S. 

       Always listen to Valkyr for he is Wise. 

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Reno is everywhere now. I just played a Reno Priest and a Reno Hunter. I feel like a war vet because I have seen some shit. But that's what I was saying before, the meta is always changing. These people that I faced sat down and said, "Let me try this and see if it works." And hey, it beat me.But I didn't get salty and say, "F Reno he needs to be nerfed, he is too op," I said well played. Your attitude towards things can effect your game play. Good vibe leads to good laddering.

 

Sorry, I'm in a weird mood today. 

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The only decks I would consider "cancerous" are:

- Tempo Mage

- Secret Paladin

- Aggro Druid

- Face Shaman

Face Hunter is NOT unfair because it has its drawbacks. Early game plays like zombie chow can often throw off their strategy, and boardclears like holy nova can turn the tide of the game. Healing cards like Reno, Bran/Healbot, and Justicar Truehart (for some) can put you out of their range of damage spells allowing for a win. Against hunter, the game can go either way.

Freeze Mage is also not unfair. If you can keep your minions out of the range of blizzard and flame strike, and keep an answer to doomsayer, then beating them should be fairly simple until the late game. Using a loatheb after they play alexstraza will save you a turn to attack, for they will only be able to play 1 spell the following turn. This should be adequate to finish the Mage off.

Warlock zoo/combo decks are not cancerous. If the board can be controlled or cleared before it is too late, then the game is already won (most of the time) Again, zombie chow is great, except against void walker. Board clears like consecration, fan of knives (with a drake), holy nova, light bomb, and hellfire can stifle their small minions, and the board might only have a spectral spider or two left over.

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      Mulligans are among the most complex and important decisions in the entire game, yet they are often overlooked or taken for granted as deterministic.
      The majority of deck guides I’ve seen around the internet list cards which are considered “keeps”, but this completely fails to recognize the importance of matchups when it comes to mulligan decisions. More thorough deck guides will list the cards which are keeps in every matchup, and though this is certainly a step closer to the truth it still doesn’t tell the entire story.
      To be to fair to all the excellent deck guide writers out there, there are certain decks which will almost always want to keep certain cards. For example, I very rarely mulligan away Wild Growth while playing as Ramp Druid. It’s a card you can play early and is simultaneously critical for the deck’s gameplan, but is it always correct to keep two Wild Growths? Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t. There are certain matchups where double Wild Growth is the stone cold nut, but there are other matchups where it might be more important to dig for something that impacts the board.
      In this section I’ll attempt to teach you all of the different factors I’ve discovered for informing mulligan decisions. Factors can vary wildly in importance from matchup to matchup, hand to hand, and deck to deck, so the real talent to mulligans is knowing when each of these factors takes precedence over the others.
      Mana Cost
      The level zero, most basic mulligan tip that everyone learns first is to mulligan away your expensive cards so that you can find cheap ones that you can play early. It makes sense why you’d want to do this as it’s very advantageous to curve out (use all of your mana on cards which cost as much mana as you have available that turn), and you can’t exactly curve out in the first few turns if you are sitting on a hand full of expensive cards.
      You can think of all the other factors I discuss in this section as reasons not to mulligan away more expensive cards for cheaper ones. If you were to enter into a completely unknown matchup then the mana cost of your cards would almost certainly be the most important factor, but at these ranks we are never entering into an unknown matchup.
      Line Up Theory
      The time you have to mulligan is the all the time you have to determine if your current matchup is "ask and answer" or is dictated by line up theory. Before sending away a single card you should have a decent idea of whether or not line up theory is the axis by which you’ll be attacking this game, as this will completely dictate your mulligan decisions.
      It should be fairly straightforward to understand how line up theory impacts your mulligans. If you’re in the position of the player who has more answers than your opponent has threats then you can’t afford to ship a single answer from your opening hand. You have inevitability on your side if you can assemble all of your answers before they can assemble all of their threats, so you shouldn’t be too concerned if your hand appears to be slow.
      If you’re in the position of the player who has fewer threats than your opponent has answers you likely can’t afford to ship a single threat. The way you win is by playing one more threat than they have an answer for, so you’re also in the market for any cards which might force your opponent to spend one of their precious answers on the wrong target.
      The Matchup
      Some cards have the ability to completely take over a game on their own in certain matchups. If you know exactly which deck you’re up against then keeping these cards in your opening hand is always the correct decision, regardless of whether they cost 10 mana or 1. If nine of the last ten Druids you faced were playing Jade, then you stand to gain much more by holding on to Skulking Geist in your opening hand than you do by mulliganing it away. Let’s explore why.
      In this example nine of the last ten Druids we faced were Jades, which extrapolates to a 90% chance that the current Druid you are currently facing is also a Jade. If you assume that keeping the Skulking Geist drops your win percentage from 50% to 0% against all other Druids (which it doesn’t), you’re still only giving up 5% win percentage over the course of 10 games (50 divided by 10). This means that keeping the Skulking Geist would still be the smarter decision if getting to play the card increased your overall match win percentage against Jade Druid by more than 5.6% (50 divided by 9), which I’m almost certain that it does. Though it might seem greedy to keep an expensive or narrow card in your opening hand without being certain what you’re up against, the numbers show that it’s often correct to do so.
      Try to resist the urge to mulligan away an expensive card in your hand before considering the odds that it could tilt the matchup in your favor. Consider the prevalence of each deck in your opponent’s class, as well as the impact an individual card has on the overall win percentage in each matchup. It’s far too complex to calculate exact numbers, but with time and practice you can start to get a sense for when and why you should keep certain narrow or expensive cards in your opening hand.
      Conversely, there are cards which are typically strong in opening hands but must be mulliganed away based on your opponent’s class or the expected matchup. These cards might line up poorly against the enemy’s Hero Power or common class cards. For example, minions with one Health are typically miserable against Mage, and early Deathrattle cards like Kindly Grandmother with 2 power or less can get blown out by Potion of Madness. The ability to recognize when it is correct to mulligan away cards that are typically strong is just as important as the ability to recognize when it is correct keep cards that are typically weak.
      50% Theory
      It is often correct to hold onto a card which might not be ideal but is just above the cut. In what I call “50% Theory”, I always try to stop and ask myself if there is a greater than 50% chance that the card I’m thinking about mulliganing away will turn into a worse one. I often find that my first instinct is to mulligan away a less than perfect card to try and find something better, but that when I apply 50% theory I realize that my odds of improving my hand actually decrease by shipping the card away.
      Curving Out
      Another reason to keep potentially expensive cards is because your hand can naturally curve into them. For example, let’s say you’re playing a deck which typically always mulligans away 4 drops in the dark. If the other two cards in your hand are a 2 drop and a 3 drop, then it could potentially be worth keeping the 4 drop so long as it is a natural follow-up to the other two cards.
      Checking the curve of our hand can also help us catch when we might have too much of a good thing. Many cards which are typically excellent in opening hands might not pair well with the other cards in our hand, or even with a second copy of itself. N'Zoth's First Mate is typically the best card for Pirate Warrior on turn one, but the second copy should almost always be shipped away. The same can often (though not always) be said for Innervate, depending on what the final card or cards in your opener are. If you’re on Aggro Druid and your opening hand is double Innervate + Bittertide Hydra, then you have a potentially game winning play on turn one. If your hand is double Innervate + Living Mana, then you’ll want to ship both the Living Mana and one of the Innervates to try and find yourself a better curve.
      The Checklist
      To recap, here are a list of questions you should ask yourself about each hand while mulliganing:
      Based on my opponent’s class and the local metagame, which decks could my opponent be playing? Is this a line up theory matchup? Are there any narrow answers or threats in my hand? Do I have any cards which are very powerful against one of these decks? Am I increasing my overall win percentage by keeping these cards? Do I have any cards which are very weak against one of these decks? Am I decreasing my overall win percentage by keeping these cards? Does this hand curve out? Does it have a game plan? Do I have any expensive cards which I should mulligan away for something less expensive? If so, is there a greater than 50% chance that getting rid of one of these cards will yield a worse result? It’s important to note that the de facto “most important factor” of mulligans, the mana cost of the cards, is the second to last question when working down this checklist. This isn’t to say that the mana cost of the cards in your opening hand isn’t important, it's just that there are many other things you should be thinking about as well.
      Another thing of note is that I never stop to ask if I have cards in my hand which should be automatically kept. I believe that you can get yourself into trouble by thinking about cards as “automatic keeps”, and should instead start off by viewing each card through the lens of the specific matchups you’re anticipating. Granted, to this day I have still never mulliganed away the first copy of Flametongue Totem, but I’d like to think that’s because I have yet to encounter a matchup where it isn’t good in my opening hand and not because the card is an "automatic keep".
      Conclusion
      Line up theory can help us think about our boards, hands, and decks as distinct sets of limited tools. By lining up our tools against our opponent’s problems we can attempt to organize our game plan into the most effective and thorough plan possible. Some matchups are dictated entirely by line up theory, while in other matchups we can use the lessons we've learned from line up theory to gain small edges in efficiency.
      Mulligans are an often overlooked or misunderstood facet of the game, but they are sometimes the most important decision we make in the entire game. By taking the time to carefully consider all the reasons why we should or shouldn’t keep each card in our opener, we are adding one more edge to our game which will help propel us to the next stage of the ladder.
      For the fourth and final installment of Legend in the Making, I will discuss all of the subtle ways that game behavior can inform the exact content of player’s hands. By analyzing the ordering decisions and tiny mistakes our opponents make we can glean much more information about our their game plan than you might think. Please join me in part four as we make the final push towards our ultimate goal of reaching Legend.