5.4 Demonology Tips and Quirks

[Zagam 1,982]

You ALWAYS assume raid Haste.  Not having it is simply crazy.  And yes, the chart shows the amount of Haste you need BEFORE equipping the trinket.

 

Some simple math could give you the answer right away.  If you take the Haste listed in the table, multiply by the Amplification effect, you will get to the ACTUAL Haste breakpoint needed.  Try not to take everything you see as absolute truth...everyone makes mistakes, me included, so ALWAYS double check the math.  9 times out of 10, I'm good, but I make typos and errors a lot.

[Raezt 0]

Hi!

 

"Long-time reader", first time poster.

 

I'm having trouble with my demon warlock, it is just a "minor issue". I hit 75 yesterday, and really can't decide on a talent from that area. I've read about them in the guide here on icy-veins, tried to look around on the forum, but still cannot decide. All of them sound like a nice extra, but I'm still in the phase of mostly doing pve situations. Which one should I go for? Any opinions?

 

grimoire of supremacy; "new demons" + 20% dmg for them. Yaaay...

 

grimoire of service; I get an extra buddy to help me out for 20 secs,

 

grimoire of sacrifice; I sacrifice my demon for it's abilitiy, plusz I get 15%-25% extra dmg, and health regenaration of 2%

 

***

Another note:

Thank you for this guide Zagam, it helped me a lot understanding the gameplay for a demon lock. I have a couple of other chars, but this char is somehow more fun then the others

[Lockybalboa 618]

Hi!

 

"Long-time reader", first time poster.

 

I'm having trouble with my demon warlock, it is just a "minor issue". I hit 75 yesterday, and really can't decide on a talent from that area. I've read about them in the guide here on icy-veins, tried to look around on the forum, but still cannot decide. All of them sound like a nice extra, but I'm still in the phase of mostly doing pve situations. Which one should I go for? Any opinions?

 

grimoire of supremacy; "new demons" + 20% dmg for them. Yaaay...

 

grimoire of service; I get an extra buddy to help me out for 20 secs,

 

grimoire of sacrifice; I sacrifice my demon for it's abilitiy, plusz I get 15%-25% extra dmg, and health regenaration of 2%

 

***

Another note:

Thank you for this guide Zagam, it helped me a lot understanding the gameplay for a demon lock. I have a couple of other chars, but this char is somehow more fun then the others

 

 

/roll 1-3.

Pick the talent that matches the number.

Keep leveling.

[Yarv 2]

Raezt. Run with supremacy to keep it simple. But like locky said, Keep leveling.

[Raezt 0]

Oh I'm on it, I'm on it and still loving it. Went to a dungeon yesterday, and had 2 other warlocks on team (one destro, and one affliction). I don't know how, but I did more dps then those two guys. I think I might be doing something right ^^

 

(Although the real test will be when I can finally start raiding)

[Vestion 8]

Its hard to compare dps pre 90 because some classes or specs hanvt got the same core abilities that you might have yet.  Anyway, good luck when you do hit 90. The talent you choose all depends on the boss fight.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Vestion

[zombiecurse 0]

I'm a little late to the party here, but I'm wondering if this is still considered valid:

 

Yeah I think optimal play is to switch to ToC when 2pc bonus is up and when it's not up, fish for another proc.  20% is reliable enough that you can sling some Soul Fires. You'll have some unlucky streaks, but more often than not, you should maintain Metamorphosis by using ToC > SF especially with 2pc being live.

 

I've been screwing around with Demo for the last couple days and to me, it seems like the 2-piece was designed so you could switch over to ToC once it procced, especially if you had the synergy of the 4-piece. Thoughts?

[Zagam 1,982]

Still want to use Soul Fire if you have Intellect procs in Metamorphosis.  You should prioritize Soul Fire with procs over fishing for more procs.  The 2pc bonus doesn't have an ICD or penalty if it procs - more procs is bonus uptime.  As long as you're doing as much damage as possible with Soul Fire, then you should be fine.  Don't worry about a proc overwriting a proc - it's all bonus time, not clipped loss.

 

For example, let's say you do the cast sequence of SF until you proc and then ToC spam until the 2pc proc wears off.  Then you go back to SF.  You will always have at least a small gap in procs and you'll likely burn your DF at the same time.

 

By contrast, if you just continue casting SF, you might proc another proc within the proc or shortly after the proc.  You'll burn through your DF even faster, but the damage you're pushing by using Soul Fire over ToC will make up for it.

[PhilColins 9]

...you might proc another proc within the proc or shortly after the proc.

Proc-ception

[Oldtrout 7]

yo dawg

[Liquidsteel 279]

Are any of you actively playing demonology at the moment?

Ive finally managed to see some farm time but still have a lot of kinks to iron out. Pulled very good numbers on juggernaut and malkorok tonight, but the rank 1 parse on 10 man is a good 40k ahead of me so have a lot of catching up to do.

[Kazistrasz 216]

Now that I'm raiding on my druid as my main, I'm dicking around with Demo and Aff more on my lock.

[Elro 47]

I've been playing demo on certain farm bosses, just for the enjoyment of it, but I wouldn't say I'm any sort of amazing at it, though I usually manage to keep over the other destro lock in my group.

[Rrasis 13]

It's fun to play, all the locks in my guild played it this week but the only fight I felt good about it with was Thok.

[Liquidsteel 279]

I played it on Immerseus, jugg and malkorok. Forgot the life tap glyph on malkorok but managed ok. I may or may not have cheekily applied doom to the target dummies as we were summoning someone.

I feel really confident single target. 390k on Juggernaut for rank 2 and 405k on malkorok for rank 1. Obv cheesed a bit but with our warrior back next week (skull banner ftw) and not having 2 dps die both parses can be higher. This is on warcraft logs.

It's fights like spoils and galakras and norushen where im clueless. At how many targets do we want to hellfire outside of meta. I think corruption on everything for fury would be worth it and maybe soulfire in caster and ToC in meta for better cleave via 4 set.

[gahhda 95]

It's fights like spoils and galakras and norushen where im clueless. At how many targets do we want to hellfire outside of meta.

 

I posted math on that like half a year ago, not willing to go dredging through 55 pages to find it though, might be able to get it on a quick google search.

[OcTwenty 0]

Hi fellers. Great guild. First time posting here.  I have a few questions i hope the more experienced among you can help me with

1. Could anybody please tell me how you would open optimally on fights Such as protectors and paragons HC? assuming MF speced. and do you use immolation aura every time you go into meta? (if all 3 are close together ofc)

2. on fights like paragons and protectors do we also keep corruption up on all targets as well as doom? i was just practicing on the dummy and im having issues keep corruption up on 3-4 targets while weaving HOG, reacting to procs/MC ect. Until i get used to the spec, on multiple target that last the whole fight, would it be a huge dps loss to keep up just Doom on non primary targets?

3. How do you use Mannoroth's Fury propely? do you use it at the start of a fight once you have done your initial opener after doom is up? because to me that way you dont have enough demonic fury to use it for the full duration? or is it ok to use it out side of meta? or just save it until you have enough demonic fury for it to last the duration? Also do you only use it with DS/procs or just use it on CD?

4. Until i get used to the spec, is it a big dps loss if i use Supremacy and NO imp glyph, so i got less to manage?

 

5.  t16 2p bonus.  how do we effectively use it?

Edited April 23, 2014 by OcTwenty

[Soulzar 42]

I am a bit grey on Demo myself, I MS it in T15 and T16 normal (before nerf and Detro emergence) but I have been doing a lot of reading up on it the past 2 weeks and playing a bit on farm now that we have Garrosh down.  Zinnin from BL has been posting some interesting up to date theorycrafting stuff in the last few pages of the MMO demo thread too (which I noticed you posted the same questions.)

 

5.  For single target, SoulFire in meta only unless you are close to capping MC charges or close to entering execute (unlimited MC).  Soulfire outside of meta does generate fury faster however can not proc 4p.  Demo plays smoother at higher haste which does not scale your ToC at all, Soulfire is your best DMG per Fury.

 

4.  No.  If you are not a Troll to stack the haste racial with lust/meta to drop the CD of Imp Swarm, its not a gain to use.  It can allow more burst if needed and more fury generation for a pull at the cost of changing a smooth fury gain into a spikey one (downtime with no imps passively spawning to generate fury).  The 4 seconds added time to Demonic calling when ISwarm is off cooldown is not HUGE by any means, however with Lust/Meta gem up your ICD on demonic calling is so fast that the 4 seconds is actually a huge increase to its ICD.

 

Service vs Sup... Biggest bonus is probably the extra fury the second demon generates for an opener.  Outside of that Service normally pull ahead by well timed Stacked Felstorms.  If there are not oppotunities to take advantage of stacking the AoE burst they are fairly similar.

 

1-3 I am unsure.  I am interested in expanded discussion on those areas as well.

 

1.  I have not used MF or Immo in opener.  Not enough fury to go around when your trying to get 6 dooms up. (double duration super dooms on 3 targets).  Nor have i played demo enough times recently to say I have done teh same opener more than once.  I'm stiff fumbling around.

 

2.  Protectors I would as all dmg matters.  It has higher Damage Per Execute and Fury Per Execute than your other options.  With multiple dooms your fury generation will be higher than normal allowing some added ToC use to maintain them.  A fight like Klaxxi, I am unsure on as the DMG on off targets is not important and it is fury generation alone.  You would not want to spend any fury on ToC to maintain.  I do not know if the added fury gain would out weight globals not on your kill target.

 

3.  NFI.  At 8097 haste I am not sure you could build up enough fury for a full MF immo every minute and not leave yourself Fury starved for ICD trinkets/DS...with mini dumps between on your 10s procs.  Perhaps the higher haste builds have a high enough fury income to use on cooldown.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Soulzar

[Kazistrasz 216]

For MF...

 

If there's enough targets to warrant wanting to take it in the opener, getting Shadowflame on all of them will give you a lot of fury, If need be, you can also pick up some quick fury if you start it with Hellfire for a second or two. You just can't immediately push the MF button without letting at least Shadowflame get some income.

 

It's definitely a big DF drain to use, but if you can manage to get the killing blow on mobs with it/Chaos Wave/anything you do in meta, you can actually see a gain in DF. When popping it to nuke self-reflections on Sha or adds on Norushen, I usually come out ahead just because of the frequency with which you hit compared to most other classes' AoE abilities.

[Soulzar 42]

Just some random ramblings....

 

So for the past few weeks I have been playing Demo on a few fights and its doing quite well despite not yet having my Haste set completed and with no BBoY.

 

Fight:  Protectors, IJ, and for the 1st time this week, Malk.

 

Protectors, the first time I tried demo I messed a ton up.  Not being used to no KJC caused a lot of cancelled casts and letting MC stacks cap since I am not used to so many imps anymore...and I still did more dmg than I normally do as destro.  This week was my best attempt thus far and I would have ranked top 10 but our logging seems to be missing Protectors-Sha.. ffs.  I was just shy of 500k

 

Iron jug seems to start off well but I am having a hard time finishing.  I don't do better on this fight than I would Destro.  I think primarily since I have not found a good routine yet for second procs.  With the timing of the Siege knockback, I am having trouble getting up the second PBoI super doom and fury dump.  If I save fury/DS I lose my PBoI, if I don't save it... my DS is wasted.  Seem to trail off from there.  Tips?  My Doom/Corruption up time was horrendous this week, I'll need to improve it, but it was still my best Demo attempt so far on IJ.  I think next week I will try GoSup as there is a lot of Pet only DPS time during the Siege phase.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9DwFHxLdVvb23CWf#fight=5&type=damage-done

 

Malkorok was fun, but I cheated with the target dummies in the hallway to spawn an army of imps for the pull.  Ahhh good ol days..  I burst 1.6m and was still sustaining just under 1m when the first Breath of Y'Shaarj went out lol.  Really died down after the imp army died out but still did very nice dmg.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9DwFHxLdVvb23CWf#fight=19&type=damage-done

 

I will probably do Gala and Dark Sham next week as Demo.

 

I tried Demo on Imm and its great for the adds but the fight sucks for doom on boss and I can play riskier with Embertap fail safe so prefer Destro.  

 

Nur I found a Fury starved nightmare back when we were doing it normal, never tired Demo heroic, wont either.  

 

Sha could probably be really good with practice but I did just terrible on it.  It looks to have a lot of finesse with the self reflections and using them to burst fury up with killing blows but I found all the movement just killed me and I was always low on fury for everything.  Wont be doing it as Demo anytime soon again.

 

Naz, I probably wont bother ever trying, Destro is much better suited for bursting and cleaving down the adds.

 

Spoils is just Shadowburn hardon and I did not like demo on this when I did it normal.

 

Everything after is not farm enough for me to screw around with yet, but eventually I'll do Thok (have not done him Demo since Normals either) and I'd love to do Garrosh... but we are a ways away for be doing that since I'm the Engineer killer and the DPS check is stil super tight.

[Zagam 1,982]

Coming after your ranks, Shizwix.  Me and Locky tested some shit out with Demo yesterday and I think we're both playing it this week.  I looked at the rankings for 10 man...wow are those some low hanging fruit.  Might be rusty with the first week, but we'll see how it goes. 

[Liquidsteel 279]

Haha my ranks aren't much demonology wise, there's only a handful of people playing it so getting top 10 is a piece of cake.

 

I haven't played it in ages though, had an Affliction week this reset but I just don't enjoy the spec that much.

 

If you're mainly looking at single target ranks then full haste is the way to go imo.

[Zagam 1,982]

Locky and I rolled around with Haste v Mastery and Imp Swarm v no Imp Swarm.  Came out to the conclusion that Mastery trumped Haste in single target and multi-target particularly if you prioritize ToC over Soul Fire.  He was utilizing Soul Fire a lot more than I was and his rotation was a little varied.  I was using Soul Fire to fish for 2pc procs while maintaining Soul Fire only with trinket procs and using ToC to maximize my Meta uptime.  Going to play Demo for the next 3-4 weeks as I test things out.  Spec feels really good at 578.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Yeah but you don't want to prioritise ToC over Soul Fire if you can help it. ToC sucks :)

 

It's not about maximising meta uptime, but rather doing the most amount of damage whilst in Meta as quickly as possible.

 

Soul Fire shouldn't be used in caster form ever if you can help it, and you should be shifting into Meta primarily to either HoG weave, or react to trinket procs. 

 

You want to dump as much fury/MC stacks in as little time as possible. The longer you are in demon form casting ToC, the less time you are in caster form generating more Fury to fuel your future burn phases. 

[Zagam 1,982]

The top 25 ranking Demo Warlock prioritizes ToC over Soul Fire.  Shinafae in Blood Legion - completely analyzed every one of her logs.  She's pimpin' status and she prioritizes it along with dumping down to 8.1k Haste and taking 9k crit.  You're just telling me how to play Demo, which I know...I'm commenting on what the top parsers are doing, albeit in 25 man.  It looks as if either way is fine as long as you're set up to do such.  I was beating Locky using ToC more because my Chaos Wave procs raised the DPET of ToC significantly.

 

Also, maximizing Meta uptime when you're Mastery stacked makes sense.  I sit at 48% Mastery which means I'm at 150% with Meta and no Dark Soul.  I think the strategy changes if your stats change.  This is what I'll be testing.