5.4 Destruction Tips and Quirks

[Vaelyn 6]

Hi Altar, I'm not sure how close you are to getting the legendary metagems, but you already have some pretty awesome RPPM trinkets.

Unless you really prefer destruction, it might be time to switch to affliction for many fights that you usually played destruction on (the first few bosses at least).

For exactly the reason Zagam pointed out: Destruction is awkward with too much haste and those trinkets and metagem want that haste.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Vaelyn

[gahhda 95]

Hi Altar, I'm not sure how close you are to getting the legendary metagems, but you already have some pretty awesome RPPM trinkets.

Unless you really prefer destruction, it might be time to switch to affliction for many fights that you usually played destruction on (the first few bosses at least).

For exactly the reason Zagam pointed out: Destruction is awkward with too much haste and those trinkets and metagem want that haste.

Even counting the effect, destruction will continue to perform as well as, if not better, on the majority of fights. There isn't such a thing as a patchwerk raid boss this tier, theres nothing even close but jinrokh and *possibly* jikun. Jikun is patchwerk-ish if you don't ever do nests personally. Jin'rokh is all about controlled burst because of the downtime between pulls.

Mastery >> haste >> crit in game, essentially. Mastery has such an inflated value vs simc on so many fights this tier, regardless of talent choice.

Also, keep in mind that simply looking through fights in game and checking uptime on rppm trinkets/meta won't do you much good at all. Its entirely RNG based, which is another reason I don't recommend full haste. The large part of hastes increase in value from last tier isn't grimoire switching, its RPPM mechanics. Since simc does everything so many times, it has very very averaged numbers. I test things @ 50000 iterations usually, which means it does a 450 second fight 50000 times. In game I see a variance of +/- 15% uptime on my trinkets in game between pulls. Its a much smaller sample size.

[Altar 0]

Hello Zagam. Especially last weeks i was getting freak about simulationcraft+askmrrobot. Regem,reforge (oh now better simulationcraft result!), then again regem, reforge :)

I really don't have a good knowledge about simulationcraft so i will do what you said. Simulationcraft will not be a prio.

Hello Vaelyn. I have 16 empire item now, i wish next week i will complete them to 20. Exciting about that helm gem :)

Waiting some set bonus for affliction, actually it did very well in Iron Qon last night (trinkets/dots stacked perfectly.)

Both of you have great knowledge and experience so i must listen your advice. Will go and reforge to haste and try it tonight at Iron Qon. Thank you very much for your answers and help, i really needed those advices. ^^

[Zagam 1,983]

The most Patchwerk type fight we have against all specs is Durumu. Some players will switch off to adds, but that can be ignored to get a real sense of your single target damage. Since we all have access to KJC, there is no DPS loss during the maze phase. As long as you're not stunned after the maze, this is your best opportunity to test your single target DPS. I wouldn't consider any fight with an extra large situational buff (Jinrokh puddles/Ji'kun nutriment) more Patchwerk-like than Durumu.

[gahhda 95]

The most Patchwerk type fight we have against all specs is Durumu. Some players will switch off to adds, but that can be ignored to get a real sense of your single target damage. Since we all have access to KJC, there is no DPS loss during the maze phase. As long as you're not stunned after the maze, this is your best opportunity to test your single target DPS. I wouldn't consider any fight with an extra large situational buff (Jinrokh puddles/Ji'kun nutriment) more Patchwerk-like than Durumu.

Yea sorry I was thinking about heroic fights. Derp.

[dooms 1]

hello fellow warlocks.. i'm verry confused atm about my locks

http://us.battle.net...Edessa/advanced

from all the guides said that best stat for destro is crit>mastery>haste

and then with new RPPM trinket haste is more favorable

but last day i got news from warlock friends in my guild that mostly top destro locks that killed ra-den is on mastery>haste>crit build...

can any of you suggest what should my stats be ?

or should i consider switch spec to demon or afflic ?

thanks before, and sorry for my bad english

Edited April 23, 2013 by dooms

[Cruzan 71]

I've got a quick question about CB dumping priorities. I know Zagam has talked about two cases, During DS and when BotH procs, but is it acceptable to burn CBs with a smaller proc combined with a haste proc such as the volatile talisman (as well the legendary gem for those who have it)? I realize that average CB damage would go down, but it would seem that DPET would even out. I've been bumping in to that clunky <1s incin spam which sucks and am wondering if this might be a better alternative in the right proc situations.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Cruzan

[Vaelyn 6]

hello fellow warlocks.. i'm verry confused atm about my locks

http://us.battle.net...Edessa/advanced

from all the guides said that best stat for destro is crit>mastery>haste

and then with new RPPM trinket haste is more favorable

but last day i got news from warlock friends in my guild that mostly top destro locks that killed ra-den is on mastery>haste>crit build...

can any of you suggest what should my stats be ?

or should i consider switch spec to demon or afflic ?

thanks before, and sorry for my bad english

Mastery is way better in real world situations than simming single target Patchwerk fights would suggest, because on almost every fight there is either a huge damage buff (Jin'rokh) that you will use to dump embers on massive Chaos Bolts/Shadowburns or you can aoe so much that you have way more embers than you'd have on single target fights, also meaning more Chaos Bolts/Shadowburns.

And CB/SB scales best with mastery.

[gahhda 95]

I've got a quick question about CB dumping priorities. I know Zagam has talked about two cases, During DS and when BotH procs, but is it acceptable to burn CBs with a smaller proc combined with a haste proc such as the volatile talisman (as well the legendary gem for those who have it)? I realize that average CB damage would go down, but it would seem that DPET would even out. I've been bumping in to that clunky <1s incin spam which sucks and am wondering if this might be a better alternative in the right proc situations.

DPET means nothing with chaos bolt. Its purpose, primarily, was originally to allow a period of downtime to regenerate mana. Shorter chaos bolt = less mana returned. That being said, doesn't really matter much with the amount we get to use it this tier. Haste proc still doesn't make chaos bolt any stronger, we just have way too many embers to not just sit here spamming CB.

[Morgaliel 2]

Hi !

EDIT : I am wondering whether to break my 4pc T14 or not with 2pc T15 (522 x2) + 2 T14 (504,500) . I have LFR Cha Ye's + Volatile Talisman, don't have the legendary metagem yet. I am at 7/12. Maybe on some fights only ? Any thoughts ?

Many thanks in advance !

Edited April 25, 2013 by Morgaliel

[Owewa 3]

It is a very small DPS gain to use Rain of Fire during single target situations. Rain of Fire should ALWAYS be used when 2 or more targets exist, but including RoF on one target is approximately a 500-700 DPS gain.

My destro lock is Owewa on Stormrage US, currently ilvl 505. I do LFR exclusively.

I see many instances of other locks using ROF on single targets. Is there some advanced idea about ember management ("ROF/Immolate is better than Incinerate for ember generation...") that I don't know about?

Edited April 26, 2013 by Spangles

[gahhda 95]

It is a very small DPS gain to use Rain of Fire during single target situations. Rain of Fire should ALWAYS be used when 2 or more targets exist, but including RoF on one target is approximately a 500-700 DPS gain.

My destro lock is Owewa on Stormrage US, currently ilvl 505. I do LFR exclusively.

I see many instances of other locks using ROF on single targets. Is there some advanced idea about ember management ("ROF/Immolate is better than Incinerate for ember generation...") that I don't know about?

RoF is much greater than a <1k dps gain. It nets 5.2% increase or so in simc. The math exists elsewhere. RoF does more damage. RoF generates more embers. RoF is instant. RoF scales better with haste.

ROF >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> INCINERATE

Period.

Edited April 27, 2013 by gahhda

[obleak 10]

I'm going to have to agree with gahddo.. i don't sim often or anything, but real applications shows RoF doing more damage as well as allowing you to do more damage of a fight.

[Zagam 1,983]

I believe the 500-700 DPS gain was back in 5.1 when solid DPS was around 100k. Things have obviously changed, so I'll go back and update that. The other reason it was a small DPS gain is because without ridiculous Haste levels, you could OOM yourself with any small rotation mistake. This also has been trivialized with gear.

[JvChequer 43]

If u were next to OOM level, could u just Chaos Bolting your target and the cast time would be enough to full some of your mana to your normal rotation.

Probably it's better than stop casting for a second or two.

[Zagam 1,983]

If u were next to OOM level, could u just Chaos Bolting your target and the cast time would be enough to full some of your mana to your normal rotation.

Probably it's better than stop casting for a second or two.

This is when players started suffering when trying to weave in Rain of Fire if they didn't do it perfectly. If they went OOM, they suddenly had to use Chaos Bolt at an inopportune time thus reducing their potential burst DPS when Dark Soul or other procs happened. Now they've compounded one mistake with another. Each time this happens, their overall DPS falls. This is similar to what Combat Rogues dealt with in Dragon Soul...it was a SMALL DPS gain to add (I think) Rupture to their rotation. However, if ONE mistake was made, their DPS penalty was severe. It's a high risk - low reward scenario for Destruction if not played to perfection. In good hands, it's a very good DPS gain.

[JvChequer 43]

I see, thanks to explanation.

I'm Full afliction right now, but considering change to destruction, or not, just studying a little the spec.

[Twinkielock 15]

I know in 5.1 it was favored to use the hybrid gems for Aff. Now in 5.2 what are the preferred gems for destro?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/hyjal/Twinkielock/advanced

[gahhda 95]

RoF has nothing to do with ooming.

OOMING =/= DPS LOSS.

If RoF does more damage per mana

RoF generates more embers per mana

RoF is instant, therefore scaling with haste

How then would casting an incinerate and not ooming, in any way be better than dropping the RoF and ooming? The answer is simple, it isn't.

No matter how you 'oom' you have the same total amount of mana to spend, and RoF is a better use of it.

[Nobleshield 15]

One thing that I've felt confuses me in general and as Destro in particular is on multi-target fights. For instance Will of the Emperor (that's as far as I've gotten thus far, specifically in regards to LFR). I feel as though all I'm doing is tossing DoTs on things, with barely any time for actual attacks. It's like... DoT up both bosses, start to attack, oh Rages are up, DoT them (if I'm lucky try to Havoc + Shadowburn as Destro), oh have to refresh DoTs on bosses, oh Strength is up, DoT him, maybe get an attack or two, oh have to refresh DoTs on bosses, oh Courage is up DoT him up, oh have to refresh DoTs on bosses... repeat ad infinitum. I'm sure that I'm doing something wrong but between using Conflag, refreshing Immolate, keeping up RoF (I should keep up RoF single target yes?) it feels that's all I'm doing; maybe it's just because I'm not used to a DoT class so it doesn't seem quite as "active" in the playstyle..

[Zagam 1,983]

One thing that I've felt confuses me in general and as Destro in particular is on multi-target fights. For instance Will of the Emperor (that's as far as I've gotten thus far, specifically in regards to LFR). I feel as though all I'm doing is tossing DoTs on things, with barely any time for actual attacks. It's like... DoT up both bosses, start to attack, oh Rages are up, DoT them (if I'm lucky try to Havoc + Shadowburn as Destro), oh have to refresh DoTs on bosses, oh Strength is up, DoT him, maybe get an attack or two, oh have to refresh DoTs on bosses, oh Courage is up DoT him up, oh have to refresh DoTs on bosses... repeat ad infinitum. I'm sure that I'm doing something wrong but between using Conflag, refreshing Immolate, keeping up RoF (I should keep up RoF single target yes?) it feels that's all I'm doing; maybe it's just because I'm not used to a DoT class so it doesn't seem quite as "active" in the playstyle..

Destruction is the least DoT-like spec of all the Warlocks. Rain of Fire single target only if the target will be in the range of RoF for its entire duration. Havoc + Chaos Bolt/Shadowburn is how you'll do most of your cleave. Instead of using Immolate on everything that spawns, consider bursting down a target. On Will particularly, someone should be in charge of the Strength. In that case, you should be cleaving the two Rages down then switching to the Strength to finish it with a Shadowburn to get Embers that allow you to Havoc Chaos Bolts onto the two bosses. Based on your signature, you're switching from a Protection Warrior to a Warlock. Welcome to the dark side! In regards to an "active" playstyle, I assure you that playing a ranged DPS with lots of targets done properly will feel MUCH more active than staring at a boss's crotch for a duration of the fight and simply paying attention to a tank swap. Since you just recently dinged, you'll be learning the dark arts as you go, but considering Destruction a "DoT" class will likely skew your view on how it's actually approached. Your two DoTs, Immolate and Rain of Fire, are important. They're just a lot less DoT-like than Doom, Agony, Corruption, Unstable Affliction, etc.

[Owewa 3]

It is a very modest DPS gain to use Rain of Fire during single target situations. Rain of Fire should ALWAYS be used when 2 or more targets exist. This gain will be much higher as you accumulate Haste making Rain of Fire tick faster for higher ember generation as well as giving you an increased rate of mana regeneration.

DPS gain from single-target RoF apparently is an unintended side effect:

https://twitter.com/...227081689374720 and may be designed out in the future. As such it is not worth consideration, particularly at my 510 ilvl, where MrRobot locks my haste rating at 4000 or so.

[OOMing is what] players started suffering when trying to weave in Rain of Fire if they didn't do it perfectly. If they went OOM, they suddenly had to use Chaos Bolt at an inopportune time thus reducing their potential burst DPS when Dark Soul or other procs happened.

I am never more than 1/4 total mana from maximum, no matter what I do. At what ilvl and haste rating does mana management become a problem?

This question relates to another:

Your typical AoE priority will be the following:

1) Apply Rain of Fire

2) Apply Fire and Brimstone:Immolate

3) Apply Fire and Brimstone:Conflagrate

4) Use Fire and Brimstone:Incinerate

Because of mechanical problems with aiming the RoF reticle I implement this scheme with a macro

/cast Fire and Brimstone

/cast Rain of Fire

and then /cast Immolate after the mouse click. When RoF is down to 2 seconds I use the macro again:

/cast Fire and Brimstone

/cast Rain of FIre

and then /cast Conflagrate, and so on. Even if I overclip RoF drastically for many iterations I don't come close to 2/3 mana, much less OOM. Is there any other reason not do the AoE cycle this way?

PS: The terminology "Fire and Brimstone:Immolate" is confusing, implying a single spell by analogy with "Dark Soul:Insanity" or "Shadow Word:Pain", if one isn't familiar with the jargon.

PPS: Thanks for a concise and very helpful guide.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Owewa

[Zagam 1,983]

Thanks for the words. As for Rain of Fire, yeah...I hope it gets taken out. Not that I want Destruction nerfed, but at high levels of Haste (I'm at 11500 rating), keeping it up is super annoying and feels...clunky at best.

Soon, Fire and Brimstone won't be as clunky. In mass AoE situations like Tortos and Primoridus, you'll just leave Fire and Brimstone up allowing you to spam your spells harder. This will be a huge increase as trying to time it perfectly will sometimes cause you to fire out a single Incinerate instead of the FnB version. I REALLY welcome this soon-to-come change.

As for your mana situation, high levels of haste regenerate your mana like there is no tomorrow. At lower levels of gear, you can be in a bad situation with mana if you make errors in your rotation. Thankfully, the bad place doesn't last as long.

Fire and Brimstone:Immolate is the terminology for using Immolate while Fire and Brimstone is active. I felt it to be more clear and easy to understand than saying "apply Fire and Brimstone and then use Immolate" each time. If more feel like you do, I could re-clarify the guide.

[gahhda 95]

Thanks for the words. As for Rain of Fire, yeah...I hope it gets taken out. Not that I want Destruction nerfed, but at high levels of Haste (I'm at 11500 rating), keeping it up is super annoying and feels...clunky at best.

Soon, Fire and Brimstone won't be as clunky. In mass AoE situations like Tortos and Primoridus, you'll just leave Fire and Brimstone up allowing you to spam your spells harder. This will be a huge increase as trying to time it perfectly will sometimes cause you to fire out a single Incinerate instead of the FnB version. I REALLY welcome this soon-to-come change.

As for your mana situation, high levels of haste regenerate your mana like there is no tomorrow. At lower levels of gear, you can be in a bad situation with mana if you make errors in your rotation. Thankfully, the bad place doesn't last as long.

Fire and Brimstone:Immolate is the terminology for using Immolate while Fire and Brimstone is active. I felt it to be more clear and easy to understand than saying "apply Fire and Brimstone and then use Immolate" each time. If more feel like you do, I could re-clarify the guide.

I liked RoF when it was a skill cap, because I like almost every skill cap in the game.

He mentioned shifting embers elsewhere to compensate for the, apparently, unintentional buff to the ember generation of RoF this patch, which I'm not even sure he realizes has happened, and is the only thing making destruction viable.

To which, I propose the question, how would that fix the facts that RoF both scales better with spell power, and haste? The more haste we get (FUCKING RPPM), the more valuable RoF becomes versus incinerate. The more spell power from gear, the wider the gap becomes in the raw damage. RoF also prevents mana capping during CB/SB dumping...

I feel like they're completely separated from how destruction actually functions in game...its like they don't even comprehend why we used it in the first place. They created the spec in a way that seemingly only supports RoF being used, and then bitch at us when we use it, and then buff it...and then bitch more..... Shit like this is why blizzard gets such a bad reputation with regards to community outreach...

Edited May 2, 2013 by gahhda

[Zagam 1,983]

Blizzard makes their own changes and then doesn't support it through math. My latest grievance with them is their CLEARLY obvious tactic of using the legendary meta gem to balance DPS specs. Watching some DPS classes require the meta gem to be competitive with those that don't really need it is beyond ridiculous. They won't release their methods of DPS balance and claim that Simulationcraft and DPS meters in game are not reliable sources of data collection and analysis. Well excuse the hell out of us for trying to find some way to evaluate how good of a job you are doing what you say you'll do.