5.4 Destruction Tips and Quirks

[Zagam 1,983]

Lots of 580 gear.  We'll wait to see what Blizzard does before anyone has a chance to obtain "BiS" gear. 

[Zagam 1,983]

Destro Mastery > Crit > Haste actually has my heart.  Took back my Rank #1 normal Malkorok (my raid team derped hard on this for 2 nights, so no heroic kill) and I pushed #18 Spoils.  I'll be back in for Klaxxi but sitting the rest....this build is just incredible.  Average Chaos Bolt on Malkorok was 1.44M.

 

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-llj1u8xdr9ftwqz4/sum/damageDone/?s=4481&e=4674

 

I'm not sure if I crossed a gear threshold (I'm at 565), but this is way more fun than a Haste build.

 

I'll be updating this guide tomorrow.

[Rakupenda 15]

Interesting quirk...when you die and rez, 4p set bonus procs as that first ember fills up.

 

4p set bonus also has something like a 10? second ICD

 

Siegecrafter goodness...if only I had something other than UVLS...

[Zagam 1,983]

Um, that's not a quirk.  It says right on the tooltip that you get 15% Crit when an Ember fills up.  When you die and rez, your Ember rapidly fills to one.  I've been gaiming this ever so slightly by using Flames of Azzinoth (sp?) to res my pet...I tell my tank when it's perfect to pull, he counts down from five, and my opening Immolate has a 15% increased critical chance.  This is extremely ridiculous to pull off every time and requires group wide acceptance of what is going on. 

 

4pc has absolutely no CD...as fast as you can fill an ember, it'll stay up.  I had it overlap last night when 2 Incinerates and my Conflagrate all critted giving me 1.2 Embers in 3 spells.  I saw it on logs where the buff didn't go away for 10 seconds.

[Rakupenda 15]

Yeah, that's counted as "filling" an ember. How long does the ember take to refill out of combat? Will try to game it like pre-pull Soulburn.

 

Then why am I not seeing that overlap single target? Does using a Chaos Bolt (ember-consuming spell) with the buff up negate the current ember being filled and thus it won't proc again until the next full ember?

 

I'll check my logs tonight to see if I can come up with anything.

[mcg05d 1]

I think there is something wrong with the 4 piece bonus for destro.  I've only had it for one night, but last night after raid we ran a BWD for transmog.  On omnitron (it died right as second due came out, did not use havoc), I used 2 CB and 4 SB, meaning I had 6 total embers, but 1 free one means I filled up 5 total embers.  I only procced the 4 piece bonus "Ember Master" 3 times.  Where are my other 2 procs?  It had uptime of 10.9s, which also seems low for 3 procs, but the last one could have happened as the boss was dying.  Any thoughts?

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-uwbxr3oy56hoqmha/details/15/?s=12823&e=12860

[Aezrael 0]

Destro Mastery > Crit > Haste actually has my heart.  Took back my Rank #1 normal Malkorok (my raid team derped hard on this for 2 nights, so no heroic kill) and I pushed #18 Spoils.  I'll be back in for Klaxxi but sitting the rest....this build is just incredible.  Average Chaos Bolt on Malkorok was 1.44M.

 

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-llj1u8xdr9ftwqz4/sum/damageDone/?s=4481&e=4674

 

I'm not sure if I crossed a gear threshold (I'm at 565), but this is way more fun than a Haste build.

 

I'll be updating this guide tomorrow.

jeez.  How good are the other players in the raid that they are sitting you?  Or is it just so that others can get some gear?

[Ilyenna 1]

Destro Mastery > Crit > Haste actually has my heart. Took back my Rank #1 normal Malkorok (my raid team derped hard on this for 2 nights, so no heroic kill) and I pushed #18 Spoils. I'll be back in for Klaxxi but sitting the rest....this build is just incredible. Average Chaos Bolt on Malkorok was 1.44M.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-llj1u8xdr9ftwqz4/sum/damageDone/?s=4481&e=4674

I'm not sure if I crossed a gear threshold (I'm at 565), but this is way more fun than a Haste build.

I'll be updating this guide tomorrow.

That's what I've been saying! Lol. Also I'm curious..on trash with fnb creating embers rapidly does the 4 set just process over and over, overlapping? That would only up ember gen further >:D Edited October 4, 2013 by Ilyenna

[Zagam 1,983]

I think there is something wrong with the 4 piece bonus for destro.  I've only had it for one night, but last night after raid we ran a BWD for transmog.  On omnitron (it died right as second due came out, did not use havoc), I used 2 CB and 4 SB, meaning I had 6 total embers, but 1 free one means I filled up 5 total embers.  I only procced the 4 piece bonus "Ember Master" 3 times.  Where are my other 2 procs?  It had uptime of 10.9s, which also seems low for 3 procs, but the last one could have happened as the boss was dying.  Any thoughts?

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-uwbxr3oy56hoqmha/details/15/?s=12823&e=12860

There is nothing wrong with the 4pc bonus.  Testing it in the entry raid of an expansion past is a horrible testing ground.  This is like test driving a bicycle to figure out how to drive your motorcyle better.  For factual purpose, you start with 1 Ember...did you count that one?  It procs every time you fill an Ember, period, and lasts for 5 seconds per proc.

 

jeez.  How good are the other players in the raid that they are sitting you?  Or is it just so that others can get some gear?

I volunteer to sit for others to get gear.  I'm the best geared person on my server after rolling a 574 weapon, 574 boots, and a 580 belt in back to back to back bosses.  We run a 13 man roster (12 since we lost our Mage, still recruiting that spot), and so spreading gear around is an overall boost to the group.  I'll also volunteer to sit if someone needs a weapon off a boss and I only need a ring.  Optimizing drops for your raid team isn't just nice, it's smart.

 

That's what I've been saying! Lol. Also I'm curious..on trash with fnb creating embers rapidly does the 4 set just process over and over, overlapping? That would only up ember gen further >

Once you are at 4 Embers, it does not proc.  You must spend one.  In order to maximize AoE damage when I'm constantly at 4 Embers is I will weave in an Ember Tap every 5 seconds.  Not of huge significance, but squeezing out all those Incinerates with 15% extra Crit chance is nice.  It's one of those 'advanced' things I'll be slapping in the guide today if real work calms the fuck down.

[Ilyenna 1]

You're spending one on the fnb incinnerates and such tho..why weave when you spend one every cast? I know what you mean about work...60+ hours a week here :(

[Narga 0]

Destro Mastery > Crit > Haste actually has my heart.  Took back my Rank #1 normal Malkorok (my raid team derped hard on this for 2 nights, so no heroic kill) and I pushed #18 Spoils.  I'll be back in for Klaxxi but sitting the rest....this build is just incredible.  Average Chaos Bolt on Malkorok was 1.44M.

 

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-llj1u8xdr9ftwqz4/sum/damageDone/?s=4481&e=4674

 

I'm not sure if I crossed a gear threshold (I'm at 565), but this is way more fun than a Haste build.

 

I'll be updating this guide tomorrow.

How much haste do you sit on with this build? Is it vaiable to have an affli os with this, or is it best to reforge out of crit for that?

[mcg05d 1]

There is nothing wrong with the 4pc bonus.  Testing it in the entry raid of an expansion past is a horrible testing ground.  This is like test driving a bicycle to figure out how to drive your motorcyle better.  For factual purpose, you start with 1 Ember...did you count that one?  It procs every time you fill an Ember, period, and lasts for 5 seconds per proc.

 

Zagam you didn't even read the post or the logs to which you responded.

 

Combat is combat.  I procced three times on the 4 piece bonus during combat out of five times that I should have.  End of story.  The level the of mob I was fighting doesn't effect how many times I gained an ember.  

Edited October 4, 2013 by mcg05d

[Zagam 1,983]

I'm not going to look at T16 4pc bonus in combat with T11 bosses.  Do you see the relevancy?  I've looked through hundreds of Destruction parses in the CURRENT tier and there is nothing wrong with the 4pc set bonus at all.

[Zagam 1,983]

You're spending one on the fnb incinnerates and such tho..why weave when you spend one every cast? I know what you mean about work...60+ hours a week here

The number of Emberbits generated is calculated at the end of the cast as an immediate calculation.  If you have 40 Emberbits (4 embers) and you fire a FnB Incinerate, you instantly get credited for all of the hits...if you hit enough targets to generate 10 Emberbits and offset the cost, you don't lose or gain any Embers thus being stuck at 4 full embers.

[mcg05d 1]

I'm not going to look at T16 4pc bonus in combat with T11 bosses.  Do you see the relevancy?  I've looked through hundreds of Destruction parses in the CURRENT tier and there is nothing wrong with the 4pc set bonus at all.

 

I'll help you out then.

 

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-llj1u8xdr9ftwqz4/details/3/?s=4481&e=4674

 

Your logs, Malkorok, posted directly in this thread.  You cast 14 Chaos Bolts, 6 Shadowburns, for a total of 20 ember uses.  You procced ember master 13 times, with total uptime of 63.3s (12.66 procs of 5s duration).  Even if you started the fight at 4 embers, you are missing procs.  Should you compare logs of T16 tier bonuses to T16 bosses?  Doubtful by your standards.  Hundreds of logs reviewed my ass.  

 

Either provide a reason that you are right or show me why I am not reading the logs correctly, don't dismiss me because I happened to use a different punching bag when I noticed the issue.

Edited October 4, 2013 by mcg05d

[Omaric 246]

Can we all calm down please?  This isn't the WoW forums.  Zag, you *are* being a little dismissive.  Mcg05d, you're better than this.  Remember the moves that Sensei Mohawk taught us?  We must be one with the forums in harmony.

 

Edit:  On topic.  I concur with mcg05d that Ember Master doesn't seem to be lining up.  I see no uses of Ember Tap that would otherwise skew the results.  I can't see multiple uses of Flames of Xoroth either for Malkorok.  Other than gaining multiple Embers from Shadowburn, which isn't really feasible during this fight, I can't see why the numbers aren't matching up.

[mcg05d 1]

Can we all calm down please?  This isn't the WoW forums.  Zag, you *are* being a little dismissive.  Mcg05d, you're better than this.  Remember the moves that Sensei Mohawk taught us?  We must be one with the forums in harmony.

 

I'm sorry Omaric, I am being a bit too argumentative.  I just didn't appreciate being dismissed for relevant information.  I'm sorry Zagam for the way I approached this matter.  This is just fairly important to warlocks, and I would appreciate confirmation or told that I am reading logs incorrectly, the former so we can post on the WoW forums and get this fixed, or the latter so that I can learn something.

[Ilyenna 1]

The number of Emberbits generated is calculated at the end of the cast as an immediate calculation.  If you have 40 Emberbits (4 embers) and you fire a FnB Incinerate, you instantly get credited for all of the hits...if you hit enough targets to generate 10 Emberbits and offset the cost, you don't lose or gain any Embers thus being stuck at 4 full embers.

Didn't realize it worked like that. Makes sense. Tossing self heals out every so often I can imagine is appreciative from healers I imagine too :D

[Omaric 246]

Didn't realize it worked like that. Makes sense. Tossing self heals out every so often I can imagine is appreciative from healers I imagine too

 

Yup!  FnB Conflags are also a good choice as they chew through your Embers faster, but also provide a good chance to proc the T16 2-piece if there are enough targets.

[Aezrael 0]

I'll help you out then.

 

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-llj1u8xdr9ftwqz4/details/3/?s=4481&e=4674

 

Your logs, Malkorok, posted directly in this thread.  You cast 14 Chaos Bolts, 6 Shadowburns, for a total of 20 ember uses.  You procced ember master 13 times, with total uptime of 63.3s (12.66 procs of 5s duration).  Even if you started the fight at 4 embers, you are missing procs.  Should you compare logs of T16 tier bonuses to T16 bosses?  Doubtful by your standards.  Hundreds of logs reviewed my ass.  

 

Either provide a reason that you are right or show me why I am not reading the logs correctly, don't dismiss me because I happened to use a different punching bag when I noticed the issue.

He cast 14 chaos bolt

He procced ember master 13 times.

14 - initial ember = 13 ie. the number of ember master procs

 

Shadow burn doesn't seem to cause an ember to fill up, it just gives you the ember back, so I don't think it's proccing the 4 piece.  Good?

[Ilyenna 1]

Yea I use it for the faster fnb incinerates.

[Zagam 1,983]

I'll help you out then.

 

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-llj1u8xdr9ftwqz4/details/3/?s=4481&e=4674

 

Your logs, Malkorok, posted directly in this thread.  You cast 14 Chaos Bolts, 6 Shadowburns, for a total of 20 ember uses.  You procced ember master 13 times, with total uptime of 63.3s (12.66 procs of 5s duration).  Even if you started the fight at 4 embers, you are missing procs.  Should you compare logs of T16 tier bonuses to T16 bosses?  Doubtful by your standards.  Hundreds of logs reviewed my ass.  

 

Either provide a reason that you are right or show me why I am not reading the logs correctly, don't dismiss me because I happened to use a different punching bag when I noticed the issue.

63.3 seconds is 13 procs.  The 3.3 seconds means that it was up for 3.3 seconds when the boss died.  Procs come in whole integers, not decimals.

 

I'm a leading Warlock theorycrafter who has ACTUALLY ANALYZED HUNDREDS OF LOGS.  There are lots of issues posted on here that require looking at things, but looking at the relevancy of a tier set procing in content 5 tiers ago qualifies as irrelevant to me.  Hell, I've analyzed 4 or 5 people's DPS logs today ALONE.  This doesn't count the 15-20 that I do daily through personal messages.  Before you discredit my work by just assuming the volume is impossible, take a look through these forums and see where the information is coming from.

 

As for Malkorok, I'll hyperanalyze it for you. 

 

The number of Embers SPENT is irrelevant to the number of procs.  The number of Embers GENERATED is what is relevant to the procs.  You're pointing out Shadowburn and Chaos Bolt, but that's irrelevant when it says that it procs when an Ember is filled, not spent.  Assuming I was absolutely perfect in not capping Embers, let's look how many were GENERATED:

 

Incinerate casts: 39, or 39 Ember bits (3.9 Embers)

Incinerate crits: 39, or 78 Ember bits (7.8 Embers)

Immolate crit ticks: 37, or 37 Ember bits (3.7 Embers)

Conflagrate crits: 8, or 8 Ember bits (0.8 Embers)

 

TOTAL: 3.9 + 7.8 = 11.7 + 3.7 = 15.4 + 0.8 = 16.2 Embers GENERATED.

 

15 procs in the fight meant I ended the fight with 3.2 Embers not spent.  We cool now?  There is no way to track what was generated.  I realize there are 2-3 procs missing, but if you look at the timing space of the Ember Master proc, they are evenly spaced out except for one part of the fight where I don't know what happened.  If there is an issue, it has to be buried inside of something unable to be seen in logs.  Perhaps a Conflag crit filling it doesn't activate it or something shitty, but it's not going to be found and explainable here.  I've seen other results on other fights that line up much closer to the actual theoretical max.

[Omaric 246]

I'm going to assume Zags didn't see the "let's be happy" post first, but that still isn't adding up.

 

You "generated" 16.2 Embers, as you say, but you got Ember Master 13 times.  Where is the discrepancy coming from?

 

Edit:  Also, ending a single target fight with 3 Embers?  For shame!

[Zagam 1,983]

Going back to the original text file, I see durations between procs and all are over 10 seconds.  I know I was pushing Ember generation higher, so perhaps there is an unstated ICD (GASP) that Blizz doesn't let us know about, thus skewing results.  It could explain the gap in the procs being wide enough if perhaps I built another Ember in 9 seconds and didn't again for another 10 seconds making the maximum window of 19 seconds, or of course longer if it takes you longer to make an Ember.

 

Could just be another wonderful thing Blizz doesn't tell us so it's left for open interpretation.  I swear, this patch is just driving me away from theorycrafting at all.  I'm just going to show up, do what works best, and fire at will.  Forget writing all this stuff...it changes or just turns out to be wrong because of bullshit information from the source.  I apologize for the snappiness...this Friday feels anything BUT a happy end of the week. 

[Aezrael 0]

63.3 seconds is 13 procs.  The 3.3 seconds means that it was up for 3.3 seconds when the boss died.  Procs come in whole integers, not decimals.

 

I'm a leading Warlock theorycrafter who has ACTUALLY ANALYZED HUNDREDS OF LOGS.  There are lots of issues posted on here that require looking at things, but looking at the relevancy of a tier set procing in content 5 tiers ago qualifies as irrelevant to me.  Hell, I've analyzed 4 or 5 people's DPS logs today ALONE.  This doesn't count the 15-20 that I do daily through personal messages.  Before you discredit my work by just assuming the volume is impossible, take a look through these forums and see where the information is coming from.

 

As for Malkorok, I'll hyperanalyze it for you. 

 

The number of Embers SPENT is irrelevant to the number of procs.  The number of Embers GENERATED is what is relevant to the procs.  You're pointing out Shadowburn and Chaos Bolt, but that's irrelevant when it says that it procs when an Ember is filled, not spent.  Assuming I was absolutely perfect in not capping Embers, let's look how many were GENERATED:

 

Incinerate casts: 39, or 39 Ember bits (3.9 Embers)

Incinerate crits: 39, or 78 Ember bits (7.8 Embers)

Immolate crit ticks: 37, or 37 Ember bits (3.7 Embers)

Conflagrate crits: 8, or 8 Ember bits (0.8 Embers)

 

TOTAL: 3.9 + 7.8 = 11.7 + 3.7 = 15.4 + 0.8 = 16.2 Embers GENERATED.

 

15 procs in the fight meant I ended the fight with 3.2 Embers not spent.  We cool now?  There is no way to track what was generated.  I realize there are 2-3 procs missing, but if you look at the timing space of the Ember Master proc, they are evenly spaced out except for one part of the fight where I don't know what happened.  If there is an issue, it has to be buried inside of something unable to be seen in logs.  Perhaps a Conflag crit filling it doesn't activate it or something shitty, but it's not going to be found and explainable here.  I've seen other results on other fights that line up much closer to the actual theoretical max.

In the logs I noticed that there were procs at fairly regular intervals as expected until the very end.  13 procs for 16 embers generated seems weird unless there is a weird interaction between shadowburn and the ember regen or if you are capped at 4 embers.  It would be interesting to see other logs and see if proc gets erratic at the end of the fight for everyone.

 

In my explanation I was assuming that you were using every ember regenerated   I still think that is probably the correct explanation since I doubt you would end a fight w/ over 3 embers filled.  ie. you should have generated 16 embers if the forumla was correct but Blizzard's calculations or WoL's parses are a little screwy and you generated less embers.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Aezrael