Vlad

Heroes of the Storm The Lost Vikings

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This thread is for comments about our The Lost Vikings for Heroes of the Storm.

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Let me start off by saying that Spin to Win! is one of the worst talents you could possibly pick, you put 3 relatively squishy vikings, 2 of them being RANGED, near a target that can easily kill them if they get close to the intended target. Do yourself a favor and don't pick up Spin to Win! or Norse Force for that matter, both actives are terrible and you'd rather give Baelog the extra attack speed to clear camps on his own.

Pain don't Hurt is a underrated talent, it provides Baelog with some sustain and independance to be able to PvE relatively safely anywhere on the map, not only giving him an edge in battle, but also being able to push and keep himself healthy to not be too exposed to your enemy team. with Pain Don't Hurt and Baelog the Fierce, he can solo Siege Creeps on his own without much needed help, while Olaf and Erik push an exposed lane or Olaf goes for the objective while Erik chills in a bush, soaking up experience in an empty lane.

The Longboat is a niche heroic talent that doesn't deliver as much as you hope it would. You see, Longboat doesn't have the versality that Play Again! has, that being a fantastic ultimate that can revive the vikings to push a lane incredibly hard or ult into the backline of your enemies for a clutch play(IE Having the vikings take all the abuse while your team cleans up), and the Longboat's auto target irritates me too much as to let it off the hook as a "good" Heroic ability.

Jump! is a strong competitor, no question about it, but Hunka Burning Olaf is, in my opinion, just as strong of a talent as it deals with some of the more problematic heroes with invinsibility such as Nova and Zeratul, which is, as the person making the guide describes it, one of the main counters to the Vikings, and it also gives Olaf a good waveclear to deal with the minion waves as he pushes with Erik.It really is just up to the player if they want a defensive active that can be a life saver in some situations or go for the offensive passive that makes pushes more of a problem for the enemy and makes invinsibility heroes cry.

Impatience is a virtue is a pretty weak talent for what it offers compared to Large and In Charge, sure, it reduces the cooldown of Go Go Go!, Spin to Win! and Jump!, but it requires you to get an active that doesn't deliver at all and a invulnerability active. Having a hard CC like a stun on someone who can use it immediately and being able to spam it so much is a god send, and as the person in the guide puts it, it helps alot that the team can catch up and apply their CC on the intended target.

Since i don't recommend Longboat, Fury of the Storm is one of the best end game talents i have seen so far, as it gives the Vikings some more needed burst to take out any remaining forts and the enemy Core, and helps with their ability to push all lanes at the same time.

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Hey all!

Sorry for the delay as I had gone out of town this last week just after the guide was posted. 

Quote

The Baelog build seems to be missing.

Great point Stan! I'll add that in sometime during the next couple days. Was really cool to see how well TeamLiquid utilized that build in the Dreamhack qualifiers just this last week.

In regards to the talent choices here are some of my thoughts on the suggestions:

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Let me start off by saying that Spin to Win! is one of the worst talents you could possibly pick, you put 3 relatively squishy vikings, 2 of them being RANGED, near a target that can easily kill them if they get close to the intended target. Do yourself a favor and don't pick up Spin to Win! or Norse Force for that matter, both actives are terrible and you'd rather give Baelog the extra attack speed to clear camps on his own.

I agree with you on the fact that Norse Force! is a very weak choice when selecting for the level 7 talent, however I find it hard to see Spin To Win! as a terrible talent. Spin to Win! is a phenomenal waveclear ability which further strengthens the Vikings ability to maintain constant lane pressure. It also brings more options to the Vikings play-style, allowing them a stronger teamfighting presence (when positioned appropriately), as well as giving the Vikings a much easier time defeating Mercenary camps, bosses, or objectives such as Temples on Sky Temple or Terrors on Garden of Terror (arguably two of the Vikings strongest maps) . Baelog the Fierce is also a good talent choice but somewhat situational, it can be particularly strong when paired with Explosive Attacks and Pain Don't Hurt. 

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Jump! is a strong competitor, no question about it, but Hunka Burning Olaf is, in my opinion, just as strong of a talent as it deals with some of the more problematic heroes with invinsibility such as Nova and Zeratul, which is, as the person making the guide describes it, one of the main counters to the Vikings, and it also gives Olaf a good waveclear to deal with the minion waves as he pushes with Erik.It really is just up to the player if they want a defensive active that can be a life saver in some situations or go for the offensive passive that makes pushes more of a problem for the enemy and makes invinsibility heroes cry.

These are some great points to justify the strength of Hunka Burning Olaf and I can see why it could be situational pick. I just have a hard time justifying it as a go-to pick when you have to sacrifice the incredible versatility of Jump!. Especially since Jump! provides the Vikings with a much needed defensive mechanic (since they will be pressuring lanes while over-extended for much of the match).

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Fury of the Storm is one of the best end game talents i have seen so far, as it gives the Vikings some more needed burst to take out any remaining forts and the enemy Core, and helps with their ability to push all lanes at the same time.

Couldn't agree more! Once level 20 rolls around the Vikings go from being a troublesome annoyance to a massive threat that when left alone just for a moment will wreak havoc on enemy defenses. 

Thanks for the constructive feedback and healthy discussion. Looking forward to hearing more thoughts on these little trouble-makers!

-MK

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On 6/27/2016 at 7:07 PM, Guest Talent Choices. said:

Let me start off by saying that Spin to Win! is one of the worst talents you could possibly pick, you put 3 relatively squishy vikings, 2 of them being RANGED, near a target that can easily kill them if they get close to the intended target. Do yourself a favor and don't pick up Spin to Win! or Norse Force for that matter, both actives are terrible and you'd rather give Baelog the extra attack speed to clear camps on his own.

Spin to Win! is amazing.  I think maybe the problem(s) you have with it is the fact that you're not taking JUMP! which is 100% necessary for Spin to Win! and also Impatience to lower those cooldowns.  After level 10 or 12+, you should be grouping your Vikings up and doing team fights, because this is where Vikings begin to shine....  Those first 3 talents you chose for Baelog slowly become less and less of a factor as the match continues, and if he gets killed(he is the Viking that dies most for me), all those talents are void and your other vikings are kinda dead weight.

Bribe I can see being somewhat okay, but really, Vikings can take any merc camp totally fine when grouped, and I'd rather stay laned pre-level 10 for the soak, so it's a non-factor.

When selecting the 1st talent, I ask myself: Is there a Nova, Zera, or other auto attack(especially multiple) heroes, and which lane are they staying near?  If YES, take Olaf the Stout, otherwise take Spy Games.  It's great against Nova's 250mm auto attack, which almost completely makes her useless.  Olaf becomes a straight beast vs groups with multiple auto-attack heroes, topped with Jump and his passive health regen out of combat, he just never dies. Also, the talent recommendations does not mention that Spy Games gives Erik 75% more VISION range which can be handy for Longboat! mortar shots...  Vision is so underrated.

As a side note, my build is all about synergy with ALL the talents.  Giving Olaf insane block vs auto attacks combined with Jump!, his passive regen, Eriks movement healing, combined with lower cooldowns, combined with Spin! means you can swarm targets, Spin!, then Jump! and safely get away, all while doing good aoe burst.  And there's sprint if you need to really get away.  If you've been collecting globes, your Vikings should be nigh unkillable, and extremely annoying as the game progresses.  Which makes Play Again less and less useful as the game progresses(except for it's power to call your dead Vikings to one location, but why are your Vikings dead!?  Should have used Jump and sprinted to safety!)

At level 4, Erik the Swift is just bonkers.  As Vikings, you know by now you should always be moving, cycling through each Vikings, moving, attacking, grabbing globe, watching life of other vikings and switching to them immediately if need be, rinse repeat.  The bonus to move makes Erik the prince of kiting and chasing down low health heroes, 2nd only to Tracer.  Plus, the health you get from moving means you can poke that much better.  I love this talent combined with Spy Games even though it sounds counter intuitive, its not.  It means you can poke with Erik, jump in a bush, focus more heavily on other 2 vikings if need be, come back to Erik and not only is he safe, his vision is crazy(Vision is so underrated, do not underestimate vision range!) but for 3 seconds after moving, he's still stealthed and he's running like a madman to whatever task.  I've used this to dive into lanes just to grab a globe and jump back in a bush without opponents even noticing.  He's a small and quick little stealther, and I love him for it.  Now top that with Jump, Spin, cooldowns, and you get the picture.

The guide says Mercenary Lord is the standard, but is there really a standard for Vikings since they're so seldomly played?  And sorry, but Pain don't Hurt does not greatly increase Baeloggs already meager survival chances.  If you want solo dps/survival Vikings, just ain't happening.  Plus, taking the Baelog talents means 3 talents are gone whenever he dies.  Also, the guide states Pain Don't Hurt is strong for when soloing merc camps, but it seems like soloing merc camps isn't ideal and you lose exp, plus the danger of being sniped off since Baleog is the squishiest.  Soak til 10+, then do camps with all 3 vikings.  Spin makes short work of any camp, and if you micro, none of your vikings will take any meaningful damage, especially Baelog in the back chucking daggers.

Lastly, about Heroics.  LONGBOAT OR BUST!!!  I mean come on, the viking song alone would make me pick this ability even if it did nothing, but it's also amazing!  It gives your other abilities time to cooldown if you use it defensively, and it can contest objectives and camp WAY more effectively than play again can, not just because mortar and the pew pew, but because your Vikings will be grouped anyway.  Also, it makes you Unstoppable, so I don't know what magic crowd control the guide is talking about.  Sure, it can be focused, so why are you popping it in the middle of the enemy team!?  Jump, sprint away, then sing your way to victory on the Longboat of epic awesome sauce while waving at the enemy who is chasing you only to taste mortars and smell your collective Viking farts.  Now SING all the way to VALHALLAAAAaaaaaAaa!!!

LAaAAa LAAAaaAaA LAaaaAaAaaa LAAAAaaaa LAAA LaaaaLAaaa LAaaaa Laaaaaaa!!!!!

vikingLongboat.jpg

vikingLongboat.jpg

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Just wondering, but is there a good way to "Start off" on the vikings? I might do what I did with Abathur and just buy him and see what happens, but I've played them in try mode and was having trouble even there so that might not be the best of ideas. I know anything to improve macro really helps (i.e. some Starcraft) but I really am not to good at that either (In case you can't tell by now, I wanna learn the hard heroes, Aba, Medivh, and TLV.) Thanks for any feedback!

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17 hours ago, Niteshadow said:

Just wondering, but is there a good way to "Start off" on the vikings? I might do what I did with Abathur and just buy him and see what happens, but I've played them in try mode and was having trouble even there so that might not be the best of ideas. I know anything to improve macro really helps (i.e. some Starcraft) but I really am not to good at that either (In case you can't tell by now, I wanna learn the hard heroes, Aba, Medivh, and TLV.) Thanks for any feedback!

From what I understand, you need to get very good at selecting a Viking, then pressing spacebar to center the camera. Quickly give him orders, then switch to the next viking and hit spacebar. "1" then "spacebar" then orders, then "2" then "spacebar" then orders, "3" and repeat. I know it takes a lot of practice to become comfortable with, which I am not :P

Micekrispies probably has better advice, he plays them much more than I do!

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2 minutes ago, Straften said:

From what I understand, you need to get very good at selecting a Viking, then pressing spacebar to center the camera. Quickly give him orders, then switch to the next viking and hit spacebar. "1" then "spacebar" then orders, then "2" then "spacebar" then orders, "3" and repeat. I know it takes a lot of practice to become comfortable with, which I am not :P

Micekrispies probably has better advice, he plays them much more than I do!

Alright, thanks for the tip! Just as a side note, I haven't even bought them yet but am planning on it.

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Holy crap, I just realized that we finally have a guide for The Lost Vikings. Great work, I'll be using this later. Thanks :) 

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