Marksmanship Hunter 7.3

[Azortharion 60]

Why don't you ask them? Lol. We write guides, we don't do race preference polls. :(

[chicken 4]

Azor,

I main BM, I currently have the Apex Predators Claw Ring.

If I switch to MM and in Tier 1 talents I choose Steady Focus with a pet instead of Lonewolf do you think that build will perform better? I have not Sim'd this but I notice the guide says Steady Focus is just slightly inferior. I am only considering this while I put points into my MM Artifact.

[Azortharion 60]

No, Steady Focus is still behind.

[Guest From Future]

Hi. I have a question regarding a trinket Spontaneous Appendages. In the guide, in sims section, for mm hunter this trinket is rated higher than for sv hunter. mm hunter can´t benefit from this trinket´s effect at all. Is mastery alone so powerful? It is weird. So, I have 850 trinket Three-Toed Rabbit Foot(stats are: 1233 agi and 932 vers). Is it better than aforementioned trinket? ( I mean Spontaneous Appendages). Stats are: 1005 mastery and effect caused by melee attacks. Thanks

[Guest From Future]

Forgot to mention that my Spontaneous Appendages trinket is 870 ilvl

[Guest Dhaern]

Hi again guys, why stat weights are different compared to another webpages? (MM hunter)

Icy Veins:

Azor-Marksmanship: CritRating=7.05, Agility=7.79, HasteRating=7.25, MasteryRating=9.15, Versatility=7.01, Dps=25.01, RangedDps=25.01

Noxxic:

Agility [9.04] > Mastery [7.54] > Haste [6.04] > Versatility [4.54] > Crit [3.04]

AskMrRobot:

Mastery: 9.62 - Agility: 7.82 - Ranged DPS: 7.24 - Critical Strike: 6.77 - Haste: 6.58 - Versatility: 5.83

Leech: 0.03 - Movement Speed: 0.02 - Avoidance: 0.01

 

It's so confusing...

[Orthios 271]

On 10/5/2016 at 10:42 AM, Ziggers said:

So I used your pawn string but I don't think pawn puts any value on the trinket for "special effects". 

Noxxic is never worth following, ever.  AMR often conflicts with theorycrafters, as they do their own stat weight generation.  Azor's Pawn string will always be the most up-to-date (provided Azor remembers to update it when it changes, which he has is good about).

[Kulnazz 1]

10 hours ago, Azortharion said:

Why don't you ask them? Lol. We write guides, we don't do race preference polls. :(

Sarcasm aside, anyone knows why top players are choosing Belfs ? Is the racial that irrelevant on your DPS that people would choose based on looks ?

[Diakos 1]

12 hours ago, Kulnazz said:

Sarcasm aside, anyone knows why top players are choosing Belfs ? Is the racial that irrelevant on your DPS that people would choose based on looks ?

Some of my M+ tryhard guildmates chose Belf due to their silence and the bonus class resource.

It's harder to get a trinket with an interrupt than a haste boost.

[Kozer 1]

14 hours ago, Kulnazz said:

Sarcasm aside, anyone knows why top players are choosing Belfs ? Is the racial that irrelevant on your DPS that people would choose based on looks ?

I can give you some anecdotal experience if you wish. I have swapped between BE and Troll multiple times. I am currently a troll. BE is nice because all the benefits are passive except for the focus gain silence ability. 1% base crit is pretty good. Berserking for trolls is sort of clunky in my opinion, but it is better.

The reason I say it is clunky is that Trueshot gives 40% haste, BL gives 40% haste, and I already have around 13% haste (4200 haste, 4000 crit, 11k mastery, and 2k vers). So having a cooldown that gives another 15% feels sort of awkward, because as a pleb who is nowhere near as good as Azor, I need to a) find the best time to use it and b) either macro it to an ability or remember to use it as it comes off cooldown (or remember to save it for a certain part of the fight).

If you macro it to Trueshot, you'll have an insane amount of haste at the start of fights if Bloodlust is used, and although this sounds good, for a lot of inexperienced players, speeding up the rotation to that level doesn't actually end up yielding as good as results as it should, because they make more mistakes or forget things. Then you have the additional problem that if you have 25+ traits in artifact, or are lucky enough to have gotten Ullr' Feather boots, then Trueshot won't have a 3 min CD anymore, and you'll need to remember to use berserking separately sometimes because the CD timers won't be equal throughout the fight. You could macro it to a shorter cooldown ability I suppose, but then it makes it harder to align with the rarer occasions when you might actually want to save it.

All of this thought process yields you the net result of some would argue the equivalent of a 1.1% (not my math, read this on wowhead) haste buff over the duration of a fight. Since haste and crit are about equal stat weighting for MM right now (haste is usually better but it depends really on what gear you have), many people are "choosing" to play BE and get the passive 1% crit because a) the difference isn't all that big, b) trolls look fucking stupid, and c) probably most importantly, it just simplifies things for a lot of players for a VERY small potential dps loss.

TLDR The choices currently are a) Be a BE and have to do nothing really to benefit heavily from racials (1% crit) b) be a troll and with optimal use maybe squeeze out slightly more dps, while having to look like a troll, which sucks. Lots of people choosing option A, cause trolls look dumb AF and it is easier for super minimal lost dps for the average player.

[Metztli 0]

What "World quest mastery trinket" means ? An award from a World Quest that gives mastery ? If so what item lvl you think is good (so it can beat either Naraxxes spiked tongue or solo Chrono Shard) ?

Edited October 15, 2016 by Metztli

[Guest Eleven]

Hi, 

Just wanna know exactly why Blood elf is the better race to play MM hunt ?

How a +15 focus CD and 1% crit can be better than 15sec haste buff (troll) or 15 sec AP buff (orc) ?

I kind of dont understand the sim :/

And is that worth to go for a BE if i'm an Orc ?

Thank you for your awesome guide btw !

[Valks 2,373]

On 10/14/2016 at 7:16 AM, Kulnazz said:

Sarcasm aside, anyone knows why top players are choosing Belfs ? Is the racial that irrelevant on your DPS that people would choose based on looks ?

I mean, you can take a look at the sims that Azor has run and see just how little the DPS matters. Blood Elf wins on utility because of the silence, so that's great. I'd rather a silence that an extra 1% dps.

[Valks 2,373]

3 hours ago, Guest Eleven said:

Hi, 

Just wanna know exactly why Blood elf is the better race to play MM hunt ?

How a +15 focus CD and 1% crit can be better than 15sec haste buff (troll) or 15 sec AP buff (orc) ?

I kind of dont understand the sim :/

And is that worth to go for a BE if i'm an Orc ?

Thank you for your awesome guide btw !

Blood Elf isn't the best race. Troll is, as shown in Azor's sim.

If you don't like BE, don't go BE. It's like a 0.15% DPS increase from Orc, and if you don't like it, it's pointless. Yeah a silence is great, hating your character isn't.

[Azortharion 60]

Troll is well ahead of Blood Elf in the simulations as you can see.

There's no "reason" it's better, it just is. There's nothing hidden.

I can't tell you if it's worth it to you. Are you homeless with just enough money for food? Then I'd say no. 

 

 

[Valks 2,373]

On 10/15/2016 at 2:10 PM, Metztli said:

What "World quest mastery trinket" means ? An award from a World Quest that gives mastery ? If so what item lvl you think is good (so it can beat either Naraxxes spiked tongue or solo Chrono Shard) ?

Quoted from the guide:

Quote

All trinkets are simulated at 850 iLvl, except for some trinkets like the Infallible Tracking Charm that are simmed at 815 as that is the highest they will ever go, and where noted. The margin of error is 0.1%, so around 250-400 DPS.

Hope it helps.

[Kovert 0]

Azor,

I currently hate the RNG of Lock and Load. How much of a DPS loss will I suffer if I go Black Arrow instead? MM gets crapped on so har due to the double RNG of Marking Shots and Lock and Load. Also, do you think a non-sidewinders build will become viable in 7.1? I'm not sure if it is a tooltip error, but the artifact trait Marked for Death that increases Aimed Shot  seems to stack if you don't choose Patient Sniper talent; meaning that if my Marked for Death is 6% (3/3), then at 3 stacks of Vulnerable I benefit for 18% extra crit chance on Aimed Shot. Also, there appears to be legendaries that favor not taking Sidewinders, such as the the MM ring, and even the boots. You cast way more Arcane Shot than you would Sidewinders + Aimed Shot, further decreasing True Shot cooldown, as well as you definitely benefit from more Marking Shot procs, therefore the ring would be more valuable? These are all just questions I bring up, I would love for you to clarify or give me your opinions on these. Thank you very much for taking the time to make these guides.

[Guest Trueshot before SW?]

I was looking at the rotation, and i don't see a reason to cast Trueshot before using sidewinders. You wasted a global on of time with Trueshot up time using sidewinders immediately after. If you cast sidewinders first, then Trueshot, you go directly into your aimed shot. If you got a lock and load proc, or a haste trinket proc, you could squeeze in an extra 1 Aimed shot before refreshing vulnerable.

[Azortharion 60]

5 hours ago, Kovert said:

Azor,

I currently hate the RNG of Lock and Load. How much of a DPS loss will I suffer if I go Black Arrow instead? MM gets crapped on so har due to the double RNG of Marking Shots and Lock and Load. Also, do you think a non-sidewinders build will become viable in 7.1? I'm not sure if it is a tooltip error, but the artifact trait Marked for Death that increases Aimed Shot  seems to stack if you don't choose Patient Sniper talent; meaning that if my Marked for Death is 6% (3/3), then at 3 stacks of Vulnerable I benefit for 18% extra crit chance on Aimed Shot. Also, there appears to be legendaries that favor not taking Sidewinders, such as the the MM ring, and even the boots. You cast way more Arcane Shot than you would Sidewinders + Aimed Shot, further decreasing True Shot cooldown, as well as you definitely benefit from more Marking Shot procs, therefore the ring would be more valuable? These are all just questions I bring up, I would love for you to clarify or give me your opinions on these. Thank you very much for taking the time to make these guides.

A very large one (loss)

No. (non-SW viability)

Marked for Death doesn't stack. It just is. Vulnerable stacks without Patient Sniper.

You don't get more Marking Targets procs by not taking Sidewinders.

No, not worth it.

[Azortharion 60]

3 hours ago, Guest Trueshot before SW? said:

I was looking at the rotation, and i don't see a reason to cast Trueshot before using sidewinders. You wasted a global on of time with Trueshot up time using sidewinders immediately after. If you cast sidewinders first, then Trueshot, you go directly into your aimed shot. If you got a lock and load proc, or a haste trinket proc, you could squeeze in an extra 1 Aimed shot before refreshing vulnerable.

... Sure, if you get an insatnt Marking Targets proc, which isn't guaranteed, and by the time you react to this either way, you've lost a lot of damage.

Trueshot affects the global cooldown.

[Guest Black Arrow]

On 9/20/2016 at 3:35 PM, DaltonIsPanda said:

I'd put it just above Aimed Shot in the priority. And, like AS, don't cast it if your target's vulnerable debuff is close to expiring, and you still need to cast Marked Shot.

I like to think of Black Arrow as replacing one Aimed Shot in my rotation (but it's okay to cast it if Vulnerable is not up on the target).

As a lone wolf marksman, it's very useful in PVE when you are on your own.  Minion taunts your target for a while letting you pew pew and take less damage.  Inside a dungeon or raid, you can end up taunting off the tank and is thus much less useful than free aimed shots for dps.  So switch based on where you are, but it's very useful for solo'ing any rares and elites giving you difficulty.

[Guest guestwho]

hi, for the opener, would it be better to toss out a couple AiS after that first Sidewinders (before the first MS) to avoid the focus cap? this particular scenario also happens throughout the rotation. also, are Lock and Loaded AiS' higher than Windburst/Barrage in priority?

thanks

[Guest Zeppojuice]

So this is in the guide under Stats :  "There are currently no stat soft or hard caps worth chasing for any stat right now. Unless anything else is noted, your gearing goal should involve getting as much of the best stat as possible, followed by the rest and so on. "

So........There must be a cut-off for haste, as in a %, where stacking crit is optimal after that. Not necessarily a hard/soft Cap, but I am bewildered that we do not have a "goal" for Haste so we can optimally start stacking Crit. This Pawn string is very misleading on gear and makes me very nervous switching out gear. I have also found that is has been flat out wrong on some gear that is clearly a downgrade but says it is an upgrade. (huge mastery loss over crit).

I am finding that 22-23% haste is an optimal spot and anything below 20% is bad/lowers dps. Also, 25-26%+ Mastery and or getting 102%-106% focus damage ability increase is working good too. So far I am doing 280-300k (Murder build) ilevel 856 with no crit gear other than Artifact weapon. I do plan on adding crit pieces now since I am at 22% haste but as long as they have same or higher mastery in future drops.

BTW--I appreciate all the ICy Veins work and am not dissing anything, jut wanna put in my 2 cents.

[Azortharion 60]

2 hours ago, Guest Zeppojuice said:

So this is in the guide under Stats :  "There are currently no stat soft or hard caps worth chasing for any stat right now. Unless anything else is noted, your gearing goal should involve getting as much of the best stat as possible, followed by the rest and so on. "

So........There must be a cut-off for haste, as in a %, where stacking crit is optimal after that. Not necessarily a hard/soft Cap, but I am bewildered that we do not have a "goal" for Haste so we can optimally start stacking Crit. This Pawn string is very misleading on gear and makes me very nervous switching out gear. I have also found that is has been flat out wrong on some gear that is clearly a downgrade but says it is an upgrade. (huge mastery loss over crit).

I am finding that 22-23% haste is an optimal spot and anything below 20% is bad/lowers dps. Also, 25-26%+ Mastery and or getting 102%-106% focus damage ability increase is working good too. So far I am doing 280-300k (Murder build) ilevel 856 with no crit gear other than Artifact weapon. I do plan on adding crit pieces now since I am at 22% haste but as long as they have same or higher mastery in future drops.

BTW--I appreciate all the ICy Veins work and am not dissing anything, jut wanna put in my 2 cents.

There is nothing optimal about 22-23% Haste, or anything particularly bad about sub-20%. There are no haste caps, and thus there are not really any common points where Crit overtakes Haste. It's possible to reach those points, but they are by far the outliers. The same goes for what you're saying about Mastery "working good" at 25-26%. It's not a thing. There are no such caps where something has a "sweet spot".

How do you know that what Pawn recommended in those cases is "clearly" a downgrade? You mention a Mastery loss over Crit, but that's not really saying anything. Did you simulate them? I sim every small upgrade I get, and Pawn has not failed me once.

[Guest Zeppojuice]

2 hours ago, Azortharion said:

There is nothing optimal about 22-23% Haste, or anything particularly bad about sub-20%. There are no haste caps, and thus there are not really any common points where Crit overtakes Haste. It's possible to reach those points, but they are by far the outliers. The same goes for what you're saying about Mastery "working good" at 25-26%. It's not a thing. There are no such caps where something has a "sweet spot".

How do you know that what Pawn recommended in those cases is "clearly" a downgrade? You mention a Mastery loss over Crit, but that's not really saying anything. Did you simulate them? I sim every small upgrade I get, and Pawn has not failed me once.

I understand your point, but saying that having 35% crit and 17% Haste is the same as having 35% haste and 17% crit and both are equal in dps is just not the case. Obviously having more haste is better for MM. More/Maximum Mastery is best overall too. I just want to balance out haste and crit optimally. Oh well, I do not think there will be an understanding of these Legion stats until we see 905 gear from Mythic Raids.

On the gear Pawn, I was referring to a crit/versatility piece verses a Mastery/Haste. Pawn says Crit/Vers was better (utilizing Versatility). Versatility is useless over Haste or Mastery. Running sims is great on paper, but they do not reflect actual performance and or fights in real time. I sim in the actual game, not on a spreadsheet.