Arcane Mage 7.3

[Guest NotConvinced]

After testing with better gear (840+) I will continue to insist that the proper Arcane stat priority is Mastery>Critical Strike>Versatility>Haste  with crit almost as important as mastery.

Everyone keeps focusing on the mana regen and mana increase (which is really important for high damage arcane output) but mastery has something more important, damage gained from each arcane charge. At 840+ gear you should be getting close to ~20-22% damage boost ontop of the 60% damage increase from each arcane charge. Couple that with more mana and more regen and you can easily stay at high mana levels through any 5-man heroic (and most mythics) without the need of using barrage to clear charges and go back to a low damage/low mana consumption rotation.

While critical strikes are at the risk of RNG mastery damage boost per arcane charge is not, meaning it's guaranteed damage increases which can be further boosted with a high crit rate. Also mastery mana levels boost the already considerable damage of Mark of Aluneth giving you a stronger AoE mana-free spell.

So to make my case mastery boosts mana regen keeping you at high mana longer, more mana to blow on  high damage full arcane charged spells and increase damage of your artifact spell, and a guaranteed damage increase across your most cast spells. This mastery is powerful for a reason, and is often misused.

Every time I've ran simulations my dps is much much lower than in game dps because the simulations insist on dumping arcane charges way more often than it needs to be because of the high damage of arcane barrage skewing the results while not taking into account the time to get back to full damage.

[Valks 2,373]

5 hours ago, Guest NotConvinced said:

After testing with better gear (840+) I will continue to insist that the proper Arcane stat priority is Mastery>Critical Strike>Versatility>Haste  with crit almost as important as mastery.

Everyone keeps focusing on the mana regen and mana increase (which is really important for high damage arcane output) but mastery has something more important, damage gained from each arcane charge. At 840+ gear you should be getting close to ~20-22% damage boost ontop of the 60% damage increase from each arcane charge. Couple that with more mana and more regen and you can easily stay at high mana levels through any 5-man heroic (and most mythics) without the need of using barrage to clear charges and go back to a low damage/low mana consumption rotation.

While critical strikes are at the risk of RNG mastery damage boost per arcane charge is not, meaning it's guaranteed damage increases which can be further boosted with a high crit rate. Also mastery mana levels boost the already considerable damage of Mark of Aluneth giving you a stronger AoE mana-free spell.

So to make my case mastery boosts mana regen keeping you at high mana longer, more mana to blow on  high damage full arcane charged spells and increase damage of your artifact spell, and a guaranteed damage increase across your most cast spells. This mastery is powerful for a reason, and is often misused.

Every time I've ran simulations my dps is much much lower than in game dps because the simulations insist on dumping arcane charges way more often than it needs to be because of the high damage of arcane barrage skewing the results while not taking into account the time to get back to full damage.

When assessing something like this, it can often help to provide examples of what you are talking about. Can you show us a log in a dungeon, comparing Mastery to Versatility?

This is by no means calling you out, it just helps us to see exactly what you are talking about. There are a number of reasons differences can occur and a log allows us to assess everything at face value. It also allows us to check fight length etc.

[Furty 51]

6 hours ago, Guest NotConvinced said:

While critical strikes are at the risk of RNG

Crit isn't an RNG stat at all with a stable output spec. 

[Guest NotConvinced]

2 hours ago, Blainie said:

When assessing something like this, it can often help to provide examples of what you are talking about. Can you show us a log in a dungeon, comparing Mastery to Versatility?

This is by no means calling you out, it just helps us to see exactly what you are talking about. There are a number of reasons differences can occur and a log allows us to assess everything at face value. It also allows us to check fight length etc.

I can't because I didn't think far enough ahead. I can try and rebuild a set with the stats recommended and rotation stated by the guide, but I had to take time off of work to even get the amount of play time I had to sink into my mage so it may take an ungodly amount of time.

[Valks 2,373]

9 hours ago, Guest NotConvinced said:

I can't because I didn't think far enough ahead. I can try and rebuild a set with the stats recommended and rotation stated by the guide, but I had to take time off of work to even get the amount of play time I had to sink into my mage so it may take an ungodly amount of time.

Sim comparison can also work then. Simming two different gearsets at the same item level against each other eliminates human error.

[Tigersharrk 4]

On 9/9/2016 at 9:46 AM, Guest NotConvinced said:

After testing with better gear (840+) I will continue to insist that the proper Arcane stat priority is Mastery>Critical Strike>Versatility>Haste  with crit almost as important as mastery.

Everyone keeps focusing on the mana regen and mana increase (which is really important for high damage arcane output) but mastery has something more important, damage gained from each arcane charge. At 840+ gear you should be getting close to ~20-22% damage boost ontop of the 60% damage increase from each arcane charge. Couple that with more mana and more regen and you can easily stay at high mana levels through any 5-man heroic (and most mythics) without the need of using barrage to clear charges and go back to a low damage/low mana consumption rotation.

While critical strikes are at the risk of RNG mastery damage boost per arcane charge is not, meaning it's guaranteed damage increases which can be further boosted with a high crit rate. Also mastery mana levels boost the already considerable damage of Mark of Aluneth giving you a stronger AoE mana-free spell.

So to make my case mastery boosts mana regen keeping you at high mana longer, more mana to blow on  high damage full arcane charged spells and increase damage of your artifact spell, and a guaranteed damage increase across your most cast spells. This mastery is powerful for a reason, and is often misused.

Every time I've ran simulations my dps is much much lower than in game dps because the simulations insist on dumping arcane charges way more often than it needs to be because of the high damage of arcane barrage skewing the results while not taking into account the time to get back to full damage.

NotConvinced, I think I like your stat priority better than the guide, it makes more sense to me to still have mastery some where near the top than the bottom. One question tho with the high mastery do you still use the familiar or switch to WoP since im told that with high mastery WoP is better than AF. Also are you still relying on the NT spam or has blizz nerfed it already?

[Tigersharrk 4]

8 hours ago, Blainie said:

Sim comparison can also work then. Simming two different gearsets at the same item level against each other eliminates human error.

But he just said " Every time I've ran simulations my dps is much much lower than in game dps because the simulations insist on dumping arcane charges way more often than it needs to be because of the high damage of arcane barrage skewing the results while not taking into account the time to get back to full damage. " Which means he cant sim it without the other spec pulling ahead do to how the sim wants to dump charges. Unless there is a way to tell it not to then he will have to dedicate a lot more of his time to prove his stats 100% viable; to me thats a lot to ask of a person....unless he is doing a guide to for a site like this. Which I would be intrigued to see honestly (hint...hint).

Edited September 10, 2016 by Tigersharrk

[Valks 2,373]

Just now, Tigersharrk said:

to me thats a lot to ask of a person.

So should we simply just trust him? Unfortunately, that's not quite how these things work. 

Just because an individual feels that the old way is better than the new and disregards the hard work of Furty, I don't think you can say that they must be right.

Should Furty go and reinvestigate all of the work he has put in, simply because an individual disagrees with the majority opinion?

To me, that's a lot to ask of a person.

[Brutalis 165]

Burden of proof is on the one making the claim. If he claims Mastery is the best stat when all evidence so far says otherwise he needs logs that back it up.

[Valks 2,373]

9 hours ago, Brutalis said:

Burden of proof is on the one making the claim. If he claims Mastery is the best stat when all evidence so far says otherwise he needs logs that back it up.

This is my point, thank you.

I'm not dismissing him, I'm not trying to be rude, I'm simply stating that he can't challenge the guide without proof (that we can check) to back it up.

If we followed every claim with no proof, our guide writers would never sleep.

[Guest NotConvinced]

On 9/10/2016 at 3:35 AM, Blainie said:

Sim comparison can also work then. Simming two different gearsets at the same item level against each other eliminates human error.

The problem with every sim I've used it insists I use barrage way too often because the sim sees barrage as high damage output due to Arcane Charges buff and the fact it's an instant cast with no prerequisites. This means I need to either have 3 Arcane Missiles cached opening with an Arcane Explosion/Arcane Blast right after using barrage to clear my Arcane charges, either way I'm now in a low damage rotation until completing the spells to get to 4 Arcane charges. The sim doesn't see it this way, it sees instant cast with high damage putting it on the top of my rotation even though it costs time and dps to re-ramp up charges.

If the sim could let me adjust that I would be able to run a more accurate simulation but seeing as how I just started using software to run sims in the pre-patch I have no idea how to properly weigh abilities.

 

 

On 9/10/2016 at 11:30 AM, Tigersharrk said:

NotConvinced, I think I like your stat priority better than the guide, it makes more sense to me to still have mastery some where near the top than the bottom. One question tho with the high mastery do you still use the familiar or switch to WoP since im told that with high mastery WoP is better than AF. Also are you still relying on the NT spam or has blizz nerfed it already?

I personally wouldn't recommend NT Spam, but that's really a personal call as I haven't tried it out since the pre-launch patch.

I use the familiar currently, though yes WoP is also a viable option because it gives you more AM which helps you conserve mana on single target which in turns helps you to continue procing AM and if you are trying out the NT spam it's pretty much a necessity.

With Mastery and Crit above Versatility I've been going toe to toe with most fire mages I've ran with, I may have the order reversed or maybe I'm just crazy but I could never keep my mana up through boss fights on a lower priority without going to a low damage rotation.

Sorry to answer those backwards.

 

 

On 9/10/2016 at 5:11 PM, Brutalis said:

Burden of proof is on the one making the claim. If he claims Mastery is the best stat when all evidence so far says otherwise he needs logs that back it up.

I 100% agree and I'm about 6 pieces shy of trying to run an 840 comparison but work started up so who knows how long it will still take.

[Zadina 923]

If I am not mistaken, you can tell your simulation exactly what rotation to run. 

[Guest Ionne]

Is it just me or is anyone else hoping something concrete will appear and be able to assure me I can still play arcane and not horribly gimp my group? I've tried fire and I just can't get into it :(

[Zadina 923]

46 minutes ago, Guest Ionne said:

Is it just me or is anyone else hoping something concrete will appear and be able to assure me I can still play arcane and not horribly gimp my group? I've tried fire and I just can't get into it :(

To be honest, Arcane isn't that terrible. I ran Court of the Stars yesterday with an Arcane Mage and when we summoned him and I noticed his Aluneth, I told my other 2 guildies in the group to kick him (yeah, I am slightly mean lol). Obviously, he couldn't do big numbers in trash packs with 3-4 mobs, but he performed well in bosses (either 2nd or 3rd, but with like 1-2% difference) and trashes with 5+ mobs. I didn't inspect him to see what he was wearing, I think he had the Dinosaur trinket (like me).

I believe Arcane needs gear, Fire has the same issue too, both specs get better the more gear you get. I haven't played or read about Arcane at all, but from what I have understood Blizz needs to decide what they want to do with Quickening and generally with the overall rotation, what playstyle for Arcane they want to promote.

Fire isn't difficult to get at all, you just need to have good reflexes/reaction. :) All Mage specs are easy; we don't like to admit it, but Mage isn't a hard class.

[Guest straylight]

I play Arcane because I like it. I've done Mythics and did my share in them, especially if there was very little movement involved :P I also got a lot of raised eyebrows for being Arcane, which kinda saddens me (and all these phoenix balls in the class hall), but that's life. In non-Suramar dungeons I was able to be 2nd or 3rd on bosses. I compared gear with fellow dps to be able to have a clearer picture and they usually had equal gear to mine (847), or a few levels higher. In Suramar dungeons unfortunately my DPS wasn't that good, but then again group members were also kinda better geared than me and there was also a lot of movement involved. That being said, I need a few clarifications.

1) For the Burn phase, I understand the purpose is maximum dmg during Arcane Power. I'm curious down to what percentage of mana am I expected to drop in a typical burn phase at the end of Arcane Power, right before Evocating to full again? Because in my experience I still have quite a few Blasts' worth of mana left when AP ends which I usually burn away as well before finally Evocating. Otherwise I feel like I'm not using Evocation to full. I noticed that the Opening Sequence explicitly states to go down to 0 mana

2) Do I delay casting Supernova until after the Burn phase, if it comes off CD during a burn phase? I suspect the answer here is yes, delay it, because the GCD could be used on something more damaging, but I would like a confirmation.

3) I've seen recommendations of Satyr instead of Claw for the neck enchant. Your website recommends Claw. How much better is Claw compared to Satyr?

4) 820 Infernal Alchemist Stone or an 835 stat-stick with int and haste?

 

I tried Fire to see what all the fuss is about but there's something that I just don't get about the rotation.

First off, I can't know whether my Fireball will generate a Heating Up proc until it lands on the target. But sometimes the target is far away so what do I do with that travel time while I wait to see whether I need to cast another Fireball or cast Fireblast to start up the Hot Streak?

Secondly, this:

Quote

Whenever you get a  Heating Up proc, you should convert it to a  Hot Streak using  Fire Blast. Generally, you will then want to cast a  Fireball, and immediately spend your  Hot Streak on a  Pyroblast as your  Fireball cast finishes. Both of these spells will strike at the same time, generating the largest possible ignite and the chance at an immediate follow up  Hot Streak if both of them critically strike. If only one of the spells critically strikes,  Heating Up will proc and you can immediately  Fire Blast and repeat this process.

It's that second Hot Streak I'm confused about, the one that might be generated if both the Pyro and the Fireball crit. So I treat it as before, start casting a Fireball and then releasing the Pyro together with it? The moral of the story being that I never immediately use a Hot Streak to cast the Pyro, I always have to join a Fireball to that Pyro?

Sorry for the wall of text of questions :D

[Guest ironically]

Depending on your dungeon strats and how you play as a group, arcane mage performs perfectly fine.

It's really good on single target or 5+ groups, where arcane sucks is when you have 2 or 3. So for most normal tactics and dungeons arcane sucks.

However, if your tank manages to get sick pulls, well time aluneth + arcane explosions, you can keep up quite ok with 1M+ dps. Single target bosses with quickening is also sick.

Managed 400k+ overall dps in 9min 54s of our BRH run today, although this mage is only a twink with 824 itemlevel. Don't know about fire, might have done better, maybe not. Overall really decent experience.

[Guest Guest]

I think that you are missing that Fire Blast is castable while casting.

[Guest Ionne]

Oh no I get fire. I just can't get into it. It's just not fun for me. I'm trying out arcane and seeing where it takes me so hopefully I'll be okay in groups 

[Guest Twistedmind]

Hey, a couple of things to note after reading through this.

Stats at 110:

• 1% Crit = 350 Crit Rating
• 1% Haste = 325 Haste Rating
• 1% Versatility (Damage Portion) = 400 Versatility Rating
• 1% Mastery (Arcane Charge Damage) = 700 Mastery Rating

So my first thought when looking at the changes to this guide is, how can a stat that's a 1% dps gain at 400 in value be the #1 recommended dps stat?  I could see it being weighted highly because the sim being run doesn't have any of the Versatility stat on the gear template.  And maybe the 5% character base critical chance + the 3% weapon trait is devaluing crit.  But it looks like all of the research being pulled for Vers being #1 is coming from a sim, which may not being programmed accurately.  I can't look at it myself, but I can look at a spreadsheet and say that Versatility shouldn't be overtaking crit.

=====

Next thought is about Mastery being devalued in general.  It's hard to quantify because you weigh it several different ways.  At one arcane charge, 700 rating for a 1% dps increase is abysmal.  But you could also look at it as at 4 charges, it only takes 175 rating to get that 1% dps increase.  So basically, you need to look at total spells cast at each of their current arcane charge counts to see how much of a % increase mastery is giving.

And then there's the other side of the coin.  The total spells cast in a fight will change based on how much total mana+regen you have between evocations.  Assuming you hit 0 mana every 90 seconds, you need to look at the breakdown of spells cast at 4 charges to see how good mastery is PLUS you need to do a total damage done comparison to see if you're at a breakpoint where you could have gotten out 1 more arcane blast or gotten 1 more arcane charge during those 90 seconds.

So the TLDR is that the sim calculating mastery isn't modeling something right because even basic to intermediate math can illustrate that mastery shouldn't be the worst stat, if not our number 1 stat.

=====

My last thought was to clear the air about this nether tempest + quickening dps thing.  Spamming the spell isn't the ultimate goal of the rotation.  What you're supposed to be doing it getting to 100 stacks of quickening as fast as possible while keeping nether tempest up at 100% uptime.

Essentially you want to evocate on cooldown.  And in between evocates, do whatever you need to do to keep stacking quickening.  This means spacing out ablasts, aexplosions, and missiles.  Casting explosions to refresh stacks is semi-easy because of the instant nature but standard dps rules apply, it does the best damage per cast at 3+ targets.  And it puts you vulnerably into melee range.  Spamming Tempest over and over again trying to proc missiles is also semi-safe because you can stretch your mana pool with mana free spells.  But casting Ablast is best, simply because of it's increased chance to proc missiles.  So spacing apart your casts without dropping stacks is the art and science of doing good dps with this rotation.

Also, you're not going to see crazy dps right now with this trick because it takes 4.5-5.5 minutes to reliably get to 100% quickening.  This early in the xpac, we're only seeing 2 minute fights from dungeons.  And on the longer fights, the bosses go immune or there is some mechanic that forces you to drop your quickening stacks.  Wait until raids come out and this playstyle might jump into the spotlight on 5+ minute raid fights with an intense execute phase and bosses that are attack-able one hundred percent of the time.

[Guest NotConvinced]

3 hours ago, Guest Twistedmind said:

Hey, a couple of things to note after reading through this.

Stats at 110:

• 1% Crit = 350 Crit Rating
• 1% Haste = 325 Haste Rating
• 1% Versatility (Damage Portion) = 400 Versatility Rating
• 1% Mastery (Arcane Charge Damage) = 700 Mastery Rating

So my first thought when looking at the changes to this guide is, how can a stat that's a 1% dps gain at 400 in value be the #1 recommended dps stat?  I could see it being weighted highly because the sim being run doesn't have any of the Versatility stat on the gear template.  And maybe the 5% character base critical chance + the 3% weapon trait is devaluing crit.  But it looks like all of the research being pulled for Vers being #1 is coming from a sim, which may not being programmed accurately.  I can't look at it myself, but I can look at a spreadsheet and say that Versatility shouldn't be overtaking crit.

=====

Next thought is about Mastery being devalued in general.  It's hard to quantify because you weigh it several different ways.  At one arcane charge, 700 rating for a 1% dps increase is abysmal.  But you could also look at it as at 4 charges, it only takes 175 rating to get that 1% dps increase.  So basically, you need to look at total spells cast at each of their current arcane charge counts to see how much of a % increase mastery is giving.

And then there's the other side of the coin.  The total spells cast in a fight will change based on how much total mana+regen you have between evocations.  Assuming you hit 0 mana every 90 seconds, you need to look at the breakdown of spells cast at 4 charges to see how good mastery is PLUS you need to do a total damage done comparison to see if you're at a breakpoint where you could have gotten out 1 more arcane blast or gotten 1 more arcane charge during those 90 seconds.

So the TLDR is that the sim calculating mastery isn't modeling something right because even basic to intermediate math can illustrate that mastery shouldn't be the worst stat, if not our number 1 stat.

=====

My last thought was to clear the air about this nether tempest + quickening dps thing.  Spamming the spell isn't the ultimate goal of the rotation.  What you're supposed to be doing it getting to 100 stacks of quickening as fast as possible while keeping nether tempest up at 100% uptime.

Essentially you want to evocate on cooldown.  And in between evocates, do whatever you need to do to keep stacking quickening.  This means spacing out ablasts, aexplosions, and missiles.  Casting explosions to refresh stacks is semi-easy because of the instant nature but standard dps rules apply, it does the best damage per cast at 3+ targets.  And it puts you vulnerably into melee range.  Spamming Tempest over and over again trying to proc missiles is also semi-safe because you can stretch your mana pool with mana free spells.  But casting Ablast is best, simply because of it's increased chance to proc missiles.  So spacing apart your casts without dropping stacks is the art and science of doing good dps with this rotation.

Also, you're not going to see crazy dps right now with this trick because it takes 4.5-5.5 minutes to reliably get to 100% quickening.  This early in the xpac, we're only seeing 2 minute fights from dungeons.  And on the longer fights, the bosses go immune or there is some mechanic that forces you to drop your quickening stacks.  Wait until raids come out and this playstyle might jump into the spotlight on 5+ minute raid fights with an intense execute phase and bosses that are attack-able one hundred percent of the time.

You put into words what I've been trying to say with mastery way better than I could have ever done. I have no idea why on every single mage site, forum, and guide why mastery is the bottom of the barrel stat. It's solid damage increase at 4 Arcane charges and makes it possible to stay out of needing to barrage clear every few casts in boss fights to keep damaging.

Versatility, while initially easier to gain damage for the first few arcane charges, doesn't do as much as mastery or even as much as a high crit value in the long run. At best versatility may be better when questing but for 5-mans and potentially in raids it doesn't preform as well as the benefits of higher mastery or crit. Granted I'm just the vocal minority here.

[Tigersharrk 4]

6 hours ago, Guest NotConvinced said:

You put into words what I've been trying to say with mastery way better than I could have ever done. I have no idea why on every single mage site, forum, and guide why mastery is the bottom of the barrel stat. It's solid damage increase at 4 Arcane charges and makes it possible to stay out of needing to barrage clear every few casts in boss fights to keep damaging.

Versatility, while initially easier to gain damage for the first few arcane charges, doesn't do as much as mastery or even as much as a high crit value in the long run. At best versatility may be better when questing but for 5-mans and potentially in raids it doesn't preform as well as the benefits of higher mastery or crit. Granted I'm just the vocal minority here.

Ok Twistedmind and NotConvinced then would you say a better stat priority or at least a compromise between the two are Int>Crit>Mastery>=Versa>Haste? Maybe having a close mix of versa and mastery is the key with crit coming in slightly above mastery? Plus why would blizzard give you a expansion long weapon with the wrong stats on it?

Also, I recently watched a vid by Arcane Fluffy (a guy thats obviously die hard Arcane) on stats for Arcane Mage and even though most of the vid was for PvP (as most vids are now'er days) he did cover briefly PvE as well as put some game play to show how he was applying his stats, which he has it like AMR Int>Crit>Versa>Mastery>Haste. When I asked why he actually had a good response: " Unfortunately, Blizzard hyped up our new mastery and gave us a high base stat for it, but they under tuned the living heck out of it. The little sustain it does provide does not necessarily translate into damage output. Most of the websites have guides tend to over rely on simulations, which don't account for real world application and human error. " He also said in the video that Cirt and Versa go better when it comes to gear so I'll leave you a link for the vid if you guys want to watch, like i said he briefly covers PvE before going into PvP stuff but his game play in the vid is how he is managing his resources and rotation in live application. Maybe you guys can submit an alternative guide to IV with your stats, rotation, talents (something brief) so people can play and be their own judge. As for me I will just gear both ways in hopes something more solid comes in but thank you guys for being "vocal minority" so the rest of us can get some answers and help improve Arcane while most ppl are just going to fire or dealing with mediocrity/elitist ass-hattery.

Arcane Fluffy Stats Vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZzzIgUpMpE

 

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by Tigersharrk

[Furty 51]

On 9/13/2016 at 7:23 PM, Tigersharrk said:

OUnfortunately, Blizzard hyped up our new mastery and gave us a high base stat for it, but they under tuned the living heck out of it. The little sustain it does provide does not necessarily translate into damage output. Most of the websites have guides tend to over rely on simulations, which don't account for real world application and human error. 

Pretty sure I said the exact same thing at the start of the Arcane zealotry a few pages back. Basically the obvious conclusion; it's not good because it is under tuned, not because it is a conceptually bad stat.

[Guest Hello]

It's not about zealotry, it's about the language you use while describing Arcane suggests that it is a poor dps spec.  That is simply not the case, and the response from the people here is only natural considering how unthinking most of the masses are.  When you say X is the best spec on a dps class, everyone will disregard the other two specs assuming they must be "garbage" and only play that spec.  In this case, Arcane is still a solid dps, both on single target and AoE.  What you must understand is that by the way you describe arcane in your guide, you're giving most readers the impression that they should look down on anyone playing Arcane.  We've seen an extreme example from one of those types of people in this thread suggesting that a mage be kicked solely for being Arcane.  This of course creates a backlash among players who want to play Arcane.  

[Guest NotConvinced]

3 hours ago, Guest Hello said:

It's not about zealotry, it's about the language you use while describing Arcane suggests that it is a poor dps spec.  That is simply not the case, and the response from the people here is only natural considering how unthinking most of the masses are.  When you say X is the best spec on a dps class, everyone will disregard the other two specs assuming they must be "garbage" and only play that spec.  In this case, Arcane is still a solid dps, both on single target and AoE.  What you must understand is that by the way you describe arcane in your guide, you're giving most readers the impression that they should look down on anyone playing Arcane.  We've seen an extreme example from one of those types of people in this thread suggesting that a mage be kicked solely for being Arcane.  This of course creates a backlash among players who want to play Arcane.  

Yes! Exactly! So to make sure maybe it wasn't just me I went to watch all of his legion twitch streams since launch and there wasn't a single mage let alone Arcane mage played. It was that mix that made me sketchy of this guide and want to reply, I found my own play with stats that work for me and I'm topping the dps chart most runs but still this guide feels like it's pushing me to play fire which I've never enjoyed and what's worse is because of the throngs of people who swarm Icy Veins I've had several people try and tell me the 'correct' spec pointing to this guide as to why Arcane is trash and at least a few people say word for word 'Arcane's sister specialization, Fire, outpaces it in every regard.' which is just an insult as I blow past the fire mage in AoE and come close or beat them in single target.

The worst is getting kicked from a mythic before it even starts when you're sitting at ilvl 844 and when you ask the party leader why, they state 'not fire'. This guide does zero to help us Arcane mages out, so yeah I'm going to toss out what works for me because someone needs to be in the corner for Arcane and it should be the players who like Arcane.

[Valks 2,373]

3 hours ago, Guest Hello said:

It's not about zealotry, it's about the language you use while describing Arcane suggests that it is a poor dps spec.  That is simply not the case, and the response from the people here is only natural considering how unthinking most of the masses are.  When you say X is the best spec on a dps class, everyone will disregard the other two specs assuming they must be "garbage" and only play that spec.  In this case, Arcane is still a solid dps, both on single target and AoE.  What you must understand is that by the way you describe arcane in your guide, you're giving most readers the impression that they should look down on anyone playing Arcane.  We've seen an extreme example from one of those types of people in this thread suggesting that a mage be kicked solely for being Arcane.  This of course creates a backlash among players who want to play Arcane.  

Are you referring to this statement?

Quote

Arcane is currently weak relative to competitor specs. It handles pack-to-pack AoE very well, making it okay for dungeons, but lacks the sustained damage necessary to compete on boss encounters. Arcane's sister specialization, Fire, outpaces it in every regard.

Everything that Furty currently states is in comparison to Fire - Fire DOES beat Arcane, there is no argument there. He actually states it handles AoE "very well", praising the spec, but he is simply giving a comparison for players that wish to maximise their DPS as a Mage.

Unfortunately, the guide isn't here to tell people: "Fire is good, Arcane is OK, pick whichever you want". The guides on the site are here to ensure players are aware of exactly how to maximise their DPS and which spec performs the best.

1 minute ago, Guest NotConvinced said:

This guide does zero to help us Arcane mages out, so yeah I'm going to toss out what works for me because someone needs to be in the corner for Arcane and it should be the players who like Arcane.

If it is that you wish to fight this corner, you can. Furty has still provided a guide for Arcane players, should they wish to play the spec. He is simply stating, if the players are of equal skill, Fire will beat Arcane. Of course, I could play a Shadow Priest (lowest simming class) and beat an Arms Warrior (highest simming class) in a dungeon if the skill discrepency is high enough.

It would be pointless to write a guide that accounts for simply being a weak player. If that was the case, we would have to put a disclaimer in every guide saying:

"Despite this being the strongest spec in the game, your DPS might still be low because you're playing it completely wrong."

It's also worth noting that you are saying you are essentially fighting for the "little guy" Arcane, but then you're surprised that people don't receive Arcane well. There would be no fight to be fought if Arcane was just as strong as Fire.