Frost Mage 7.3

[Ugopewpew 0]

57 minutes ago, Blainie said:

I can ask, but there's no guarantee. It might be easier to work it out on a strict item level comparison basis for some classes than others. I'll see what Furty says.

Much appreciated

[Furty 51]

On 9/20/2017 at 3:52 PM, Ugopewpew said:

Can we have the netherlight crucible traits given item level values? What I mean by this would be basically what was done on the Hunter spec pages, where a trait like Torment the Weak was listed as being worth 8.9 item levels, and so on. This will help when trying to decide paths where there is no 100% clear answer on first look. Thanks

 

On 9/20/2017 at 7:35 PM, Blainie said:

I can ask, but there's no guarantee. It might be easier to work it out on a strict item level comparison basis for some classes than others. I'll see what Furty says.

Personally I use raidbots.com for most relic comparisons; the listed item level values are a good "measuring stick" of sorts but guide readers tend to take them as gospel which is why I have left them absent. Many traits, particularly traits with stats, vary greatly character to character and might even change in overall priority if you are heavily weighted towards a particularly gear path. 

[Guest frosty]

Not everyone uses raidbots

All we want as what other classes have already, an easy way to rank our relics without having to spend hours on simming and testing stuff

[Furty 51]

2 hours ago, Guest frosty said:

Not everyone uses raidbots

All we want as what other classes have already, an easy way to rank our relics without having to spend hours on simming and testing stuff

It takes less than a minute to sim something on raidbots. There is no hours of anything required. There is no easy way to rank the relics beyond the listed hierarchy, mainly because most players don't have the knowledge or context to interpret the item level values and inevitably come to erroneous conclusions. It is possible to do with very straightforward classes with little to no variety in playstyle, e.g. Assassination Rogue, but beyond that the data is a bit redundant. If optimizing immaculately is of the highest importance to you that you think the item level decimal places will make an impact I highly recommend instead taking 30 seconds to familiarize yourself with raidbots.

[Guest frosty]

Howcome almost every other class has values and mages not ?

Don't they have less skilled people playing also who might draw erroneous conclusions  ?

I don't understand the problem

We come here searching for info and guidance, yet nobody wants to do this properly

 

[Valks 2,373]

11 hours ago, Guest frosty said:

Howcome almost every other class has values and mages not ?

Firstly, there are many other guides that also don't have values - it depends on the writer, the theorycrafter/tester behind the guide and the class itself. As Furty states above, a very straightforward class (not in playstyle, but mechanically for simulation and the area for which there is a chance for error in simulation) is incredibly easy to quantify item level brackets and differences for traits. 

There are no item level values for Frost Mage for two reasons:

1. It is very difficult to quantify item level suggestions for relics for a general guide, ranging over all gear levels due to the huge difference gear can make on those item level figures.
2. It is extremely easy to sim it yourself for a perfectly accurate figure on RaidBots, using an import addon.

It has nothing to do with the guide not being done properly. It just isn't feasible to do it for the spec with so many variable, especially when it is so easy to find perfectly accurate figures for your own character.

[Kydele 0]

In practice, it is possible to cast two ice lance after flurry when icy veins and time warp are both activated. Is it necessary to use this technique in the real fight?

[Valks 2,373]

4 hours ago, Kydele said:

In practice, it is possible to cast two ice lance after flurry when icy veins and time warp are both activated. Is it necessary to use this technique in the real fight?

This is dependent on two things: range and world MS. If you aren't close enough to the target, the second Ice Lance won't hit during WC and you'll miss your chance, thereby sending an unbuffed Ice Lance, losing DPS. If your world MS is too high, even by a fraction at that point in the fight, the same thing will happen. There is no requirement to do it, since it can be incredibly risky to pull off and cause you to end up losing DPS during that burst phase of IV + TW.

[Tutonik 0]

I personally use Askmrrobot for gearing info. After you get the updated gear info from best in bags there will be scaling info. AskMrRobot uses pawn so the 2 are in sync.  Again as you change gear for sim the scaling changes.  Also a lot depends on your rotation and range.  I don't think a lot of players consider range to target for figuring damage output.  Addons are great for approximations , I've seen players go overboard on a primary stat to the detriment of their damage. 

[TheKaiser 0]

Would you say Frost is currently better in Raiding than Fire because of it's consistant dmg output and reliable playstyle ?
I don't know wheter I should switch to Frost from my Fire, because I had mixed resulst with the Fire in Dungeons and Raiding

[Guest Beloly]

Ok so I'm kinda necroing this post a bit, sorry about that. So for the lvl 90 talent choice, Unstable Magic is listed. But under Spell Rotation, it says 

• Cast  Ice Lance only to spend your  Fingers of Frost charges (make sure  Frost Bomb is applied!).

So which one is the better choice? 

I'm picking up mage again basically for the first time since BC so I have no clue what I'm doing >.<

 

Thanks!

[Valks 2,373]

On 11/25/2017 at 2:35 AM, Tutonik said:

I personally use Askmrrobot for gearing info. After you get the updated gear info from best in bags there will be scaling info. AskMrRobot uses pawn so the 2 are in sync.  Again as you change gear for sim the scaling changes.  Also a lot depends on your rotation and range.  I don't think a lot of players consider range to target for figuring damage output.  Addons are great for approximations , I've seen players go overboard on a primary stat to the detriment of their damage. 

You should make sure everything you do is checked with SimC/RaidBots as well. 

[Valks 2,373]

On 11/25/2017 at 8:06 PM, TheKaiser said:

Would you say Frost is currently better in Raiding than Fire because of it's consistant dmg output and reliable playstyle ?
I don't know wheter I should switch to Frost from my Fire, because I had mixed resulst with the Fire in Dungeons and Raiding

Depends entirely on fight. All 3 specs were very viable in ToS, as shown in WLogs rankings. The only fight that is pure Frost on Top10 is Sisters and the only fight that is pure Fire in top 10 is Fallen Avatar.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/13#class=Mage

[Valks 2,373]

On 11/25/2017 at 9:25 PM, Guest Beloly said:

Ok so I'm kinda necroing this post a bit, sorry about that. So for the lvl 90 talent choice, Unstable Magic is listed. But under Spell Rotation, it says 

• Cast  Ice Lance only to spend your  Fingers of Frost charges (make sure  Frost Bomb is applied!).

So which one is the better choice? 

I'm picking up mage again basically for the first time since BC so I have no clue what I'm doing >.<

 

Thanks!

Unstable in pretty much every situation is better than Frost Bomb. It's only there if people are using FB.

[rbalmeida 0]

When are you guys going to update the frost mage for 7.3.2 with the itens of Antorus?

[Guest icyydeadppl]

Yea i would like to know that aswell when are yall gonna update the frost mage for antorus 

[Valks 2,373]

On 11/30/2017 at 2:27 PM, rbalmeida said:

When are you guys going to update the frost mage for 7.3.2 with the itens of Antorus?

The pages other than the BiS one are up-to-date, so I'm not sure what happened. I'll look into this and find out what's happening. Sorry for the delay!

[Valks 2,373]

On 12/1/2017 at 12:14 AM, Guest icyydeadppl said:

Yea i would like to know that aswell when are yall gonna update the frost mage for antorus 

See above. I'll leave an answer here today/tonight :)

[Linashar 0]

Looking at the list of what are good legendary gear for frost spec I was curious why Lady Vashj's Grasp is listed as a strong option if the above are not available. Lady Vashj's Grasp, Magtheridon's Banished Bracers, Thermal Void, Frozen Touch would seem to be a better combination for the increased haste duration, whereas Shard of the Exodar only gives you a 30% boost every 5 minutes for 40 seconds (when you can bloodlust without it being bad for the group preventing them from being able to bloodlust when they need to) this combination would seem to allow you to get a 30% boost for 34 seconds or more (Lady Vashj's Grasp (3 or more) plus Frost Orb (1 or more) resulting in at least 4 FoF, any additional FoF increase this further. I am currently getting Icy Veins to last for around a minute and my unboosted haste stat is 29.53%) every >3 minutes (Frozen Veins decreases cooldown of Icy Veins for 2 sec with frostbolt crit) plus the additional damage for the first 20 sec from Chilled to the core for activation Icy Veins.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Linashar

[Valks 2,373]

On 12/13/2017 at 5:08 AM, Linashar said:

Looking at the list of what are good legendary gear for frost spec I was curious why Lady Vashj's Grasp is listed as a strong option if the above are not available. Lady Vashj's Grasp, Magtheridon's Banished Bracers, Thermal Void, Frozen Touch would seem to be a better combination for the increased haste duration, whereas Shard of the Exodar only gives you a 30% boost every 5 minutes for 40 seconds (when you can bloodlust without it being bad for the group preventing them from being able to bloodlust when they need to) this combination would seem to allow you to get a 30% boost for 34 seconds or more (Lady Vashj's Grasp (3 or more) plus Frost Orb (1 or more) resulting in at least 4 FoF, any additional FoF increase this further. I am currently getting Icy Veins to last for around a minute and my unboosted haste stat is 29.53%) every >3 minutes (Frozen Veins decreases cooldown of Icy Veins for 2 sec with frostbolt crit) plus the additional damage for the first 20 sec from Chilled to the core for activation Icy Veins.

The actual difference Vashj makes is 4-5 seconds of Icy Veins uptime. The rest of the uptime is only there because of using Thermal Void. It's completely insignificant compared to Shard of the Exodar. Bracers + Ring + Thermal Void + Frozen Touch is the clear winning choice for ST. For AoE, the damage from Splitting Ice is far beyond the damage increase from the additional FoF.

[arqas 0]

I just ran with a mage in a raid today who said that their 2p/2p/2p (i.e. Everburning Knowledge tier items) sims better than their 970 average ilvl gear. Some were skeptical because that costs 25 ilvls. I'm not good at simming stuff. Is there some credence to that mage's claim?

Edited December 23, 2017 by arqas

[Valks 2,373]

On 12/23/2017 at 1:25 PM, arqas said:

I just ran with a mage in a raid today who said that their 2p/2p/2p (i.e. Everburning Knowledge tier items) sims better than their 970 average ilvl gear. Some were skeptical because that costs 25 ilvls. I'm not good at simming stuff. Is there some credence to that mage's claim?

Definitely, but it depends on your gear. The T19 bonus is incredibly powerful, but you'll most likely run it with T21 4-P rather than T20 2-P + T21 2-P. It's going to depend on your stat levels, item levels of the pieces in question, the fight itself, etc.

If you get your hands on some solid T19 pieces, you can try simming it, but I doubt you're going to be outclassing 970+ pieces if they're sub 900 item level. 

[Guest Churchill]

I'm having major trouble with decreasing my mastery. Gearpieces that are considered BiS drops, T21 pieces drop, and they are full of mastery.

[Valks 2,373]

On 1/11/2018 at 10:24 PM, Guest Churchill said:

I'm having major trouble with decreasing my mastery. Gearpieces that are considered BiS drops, T21 pieces drop, and they are full of mastery.

There's not much you can do to stop that. Mastery + Tier bonus is better than no tier bonus + Haste/Vers.

[MuFeR 0]

Wanted to ask a few things about the rotation because some comments contradict the guide and also because the section of flurry is kinda badly written. So starting with the simple ones, brain freeze procs, do you flurry->IL or frostbolt->flurry->IL? In the case of having both FoF and brain freeze, do you spend all your FoF by spaming IL or flurry takes priority (according to the guide i think you should flurry first but that means you essentially waste the FoF charge since the target will be frozen from flurry anyway). Last there is this line

"1.Cast Ice Lance if Winter's Chill is applied AND/OR you have just cast  Flurry."

Isn't instant flurry the only way to apply winter's chill? If so the "and/or" part doesn't make sense and it should be "Cast Ice Lance after you have just cast flurry".

 

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by MuFeR