Brewmaster Monk 7.3

[Valks 2,373]

This guide has now been updated for the 7.3 patch. If you have any questions or comments, you can always ask them here. If you find any errors in the new changes to the guide, let me know and I'll get the writers to update it ASAP.

Good luck in the Shadows of Argus!

[Guest Devils adcovate]

As with other guides there is a major discrepancy between the Easy Mode part of a guide and the Builds/Talents section.

E.g. for BrM: Special Delivery as the go-to talent for lvl 90 on the Easy Mode introduction - but in the Builds/Talents section it suddenly is a situational pick and Rushing Jade Winds seems to be the go-to talent.

[Furty 51]

10 hours ago, Guest Devils adcovate said:

As with other guides there is a major discrepancy between the Easy Mode part of a guide and the Builds/Talents section.

E.g. for BrM: Special Delivery as the go-to talent for lvl 90 on the Easy Mode introduction - but in the Builds/Talents section it suddenly is a situational pick and Rushing Jade Winds seems to be the go-to talent.

As described verbatim from the offending section:

Quote

These choices are optimized for ease of use. Although some talents might offer marginally higher gains when played perfectly, these same talents often result in damage losses or more damage taken when utilized by less seasoned players. These talents aim to present the best setup that has very little punishment for unfamiliarity or mistakes.

 

[Guest ihaz]

Refractive Shell does not scale with Celestial Fortune. It scales with crit % as all absorbs do.

Writing that it scales with Celestial Fortune would imply it's double dipping with crit, while in fact it is not.

[Guest Mr Brew]

Currently the legendary comments dont include cinidaria the symbiote

It seems to have some niche uses for brewmaster, especially in demonic inquisition and 3rd tanking dsolate host M

(also HoV Odyn).

[Valks 2,373]

On 10/7/2017 at 2:05 AM, Guest ihaz said:

Refractive Shell does not scale with Celestial Fortune. It scales with crit % as all absorbs do.

Writing that it scales with Celestial Fortune would imply it's double dipping with crit, while in fact it is not.

Passed to Furty.

[Valks 2,373]

On 10/7/2017 at 11:33 AM, Guest Mr Brew said:

Currently the legendary comments dont include cinidaria the symbiote

It seems to have some niche uses for brewmaster, especially in demonic inquisition and 3rd tanking dsolate host M

(also HoV Odyn).

Also passed this on.

[Torsin 0]

When it is talking about Trinkets the Druid Shoulder is linked, as opposed to the Brew Trinket (Aman'Thul's Vision):

 

Quote

 Aman'Thul's Wisdom is a great hybrid of damage and defensive use and a better choice as your Pantheon trinket than  Aggramar's Conviction.

 

[Torsin 0]

The Trinket discussion talks about the Darkmoon Deck: Immortality  however, a drop from Tomb was the Feverish Carapace and is not listed at all in the discussion, the FC buffs armor for a slightly higher amount with a proc rate of 15-25% and reflects some damage as fire.  Is this a better trinket at iLevels higher than 900 over the DD: Immortality?

[Valks 2,373]

14 hours ago, Torsin said:

When it is talking about Trinkets the Druid Shoulder is linked, as opposed to the Brew Trinket (Aman'Thul's Vision):
 

Will get this updated, thanks!

[Valks 2,373]

12 hours ago, Torsin said:

The Trinket discussion talks about the Darkmoon Deck: Immortality  however, a drop from Tomb was the Feverish Carapace and is not listed at all in the discussion, the FC buffs armor for a slightly higher amount with a proc rate of 15-25% and reflects some damage as fire.  Is this a better trinket at iLevels higher than 900 over the DD: Immortality?

At 900 item level, FC gives 3,327 armour with an approximate 20-25% uptime depending on how often you are tanking. You can trigger it as soon as you are about to swap, meaning the proc becomes useless after your swap.

Immortality is a constant buff with 100% uptime that rotates up between 1695 and 5087 armor every 20 seconds. It's far more consistent than FC and, at the higher end of the proc, it gives far more armour. The shuffled cards also last for 20 seconds, so each buff is twice as long as FC's buff. It's a lot better.

[Myrorr 0]

Since I started playing BM in early legion I never got along with the black ox brew playstyle so I took gift of the mists, got the stagger leggo ring and almost never purify. I'm certain that this build is far better than what's suggested on here after tanking Felhounds with another Monk Tank of identical ilvl using the Black ox build purifying a lot and he had the 2talents ring so would have been staggering more of the dot than I was. But here are the results. (I had 4set from ToS at the time) Im fervor as you can see there is a huge difference I damage taken and healing done. I did this fight again without the tier set but with 8ilvls higher and got almost the same numbers in dtps/hps. Similar story on all the fights but Dogs is the most even to compare as both tanks have identical skills to deal with. As far as I can tell the black ox brew tactic isnnt compatible to GotM

[Valks 2,373]

3 hours ago, Myrorr said:

Since I started playing BM in early legion I never got along with the black ox brew playstyle so I took gift of the mists, got the stagger leggo ring and almost never purify. I'm certain that this build is far better than what's suggested on here after tanking Felhounds with another Monk Tank of identical ilvl using the Black ox build purifying a lot and he had the 2talents ring so would have been staggering more of the dot than I was. But here are the results. (I had 4set from ToS at the time) Im fervor as you can see there is a huge difference I damage taken and healing done. I did this fight again without the tier set but with 8ilvls higher and got almost the same numbers in dtps/hps. Similar story on all the fights but Dogs is the most even to compare as both tanks have identical skills to deal with. As far as I can tell the black ox brew tactic isnnt compatible to GotM

You're using an example of a boss that is perfectly suited to using Gift of the Mists, which we already recommend to use it on. Hounds has an insane amount of magic damage output, regardless of who you tank, so you'd be likely to take it anyway (Brew can still outperform it when used correctly). 

Brew is far more likely to be used incorrectly, since you have to activate it at the right time or lose the value of it. It's extremely likely that the other monk is making mistakes in their playstyle, since their HPS is around 1/3rd of mine while having a higher item level than me. There's very little I can tell in the screenshot other than the base numbers of your HPS/DTPS. It could all be caused by misplays of the other tank.

A log provides far more information on this and I can actually check properly - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/help/start/

[Myrorr 0]

1 hour ago, Blainie said:

You're using an example of a boss that is perfectly suited to using Gift of the Mists, which we already recommend to use it on. Hounds has an insane amount of magic damage output, regardless of who you tank, so you'd be likely to take it anyway (Brew can still outperform it when used correctly). 

Brew is far more likely to be used incorrectly, since you have to activate it at the right time or lose the value of it. It's extremely likely that the other monk is making mistakes in their playstyle, since their HPS is around 1/3rd of mine while having a higher item level than me. There's very little I can tell in the screenshot other than the base numbers of your HPS/DTPS. It could all be caused by misplays of the other tank.

A log provides far more information on this and I can actually check properly - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/help/start/

I used Hounds in this example purely because it's the closest thing to an even amount of damage taken with no tank switches and no extra stacks taken etc

I have a few logs that other people logged Fervor-Xavius.

I've never tank with another tank monk that took less damage than me or if they have took less damage than me I've by far out self healed them two more than compensate for the extra damage taken.

I like to hog tank stacks when in Andover geared group for example on Argus in phase 4 when we didn't "need" the Golden orbs to boost our damage output I took 21 stacks of site before it killed me and that was only because the group took a big soul soulburst and left me at low H.P..  obviously that's kinda pointless because in a progression raid it's a hindrance to not be collecting the orbs, but go back to KJ and I didn't require any help from the healers to stay up during Fel Claws, as long as I had enough HP to survive the initial hit I get instantly heal back to fall using the minimum of 5 orbs that would spawn after each hit with a bit of luck they would be great orbs and a bit more luck celestial fortune would kick in. I also had the tier set so my stagger damage was dissapearing while absorbing orbs.. but even without the tier set having that level of self-healing is insanely useful and progression on such as smooth damage taking tank anyway.. 

I just think gift of the Mists is one of the examples that should definitely just be a solid tick as a viable option rather than an option depending on situation. Especially when I find sometimes I can go an entire +10+ without feeling it necessary to purify unless I've got 10s left in ironskin and 3 stacks unused ^^

[Valks 2,373]

On 12/19/2017 at 3:38 PM, Myrorr said:

I just think gift of the Mists is one of the examples that should definitely just be a solid tick as a viable option rather than an option depending on situation. Especially when I find sometimes I can go an entire +10+ without feeling it necessary to purify unless I've got 10s left in ironskin and 3 stacks unused ^^

The things is, if both are listed with a tick, it would mean that they are essentially on par with one another, or that there is enough fights where it is useful that it, despite underperforming on some, it is used widely enough that it is listed as being viable.

Gift does nothing other than adding additional healing, correct? In theory, it should put out more healing than Ox Brew in order to make up for the fact that it does nothing other than healing, while Ox Brew reduces your DTPS due to additional brew charges, as well as adding DPS because of a refill to your energy.

Take a look at the healing ranks for Heroic Antorus:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/17#metric=hps&difficulty=4&class=Monk&spec=Brewmaster

There is 3 fights where the top healing output is from a player using Gift. On every single fight, the top 10 features a higher percentage of players using Ox Brew than Gift. If Gift gave that much of a boost to put it as equal to Ox Brew (meaning we'd list it with a tick), there would be an even split in the top healing rankings. As you can see, there isn't, at all.

On top of this, look at the DTPS of those using Gift. If we use the example of Hasabel, where rank 1 is Gift, rank 2 is Ox Brew, the Monk took around 200K more damage per second, with only a 55K difference in healing per second. 

Gift just doesn't make up for the loss of Ox Brew in terms of healing vs. damage taken. The only reason it will is if the Ox Brew is not used well, in which case you should be using Gift because it's a passive talent and requires no extra thought to use it. We can't, however, list a talent as viable simply because a portion of players can't use the better talent. That's why we list it with a "?", since it's only situational. 

[Valks 2,373]

This guide will be updated for the release of the pre-patch of Battle for Azeroth in the next few days. We are aiming to have every guide deployed prior to the patch going live.

Please note that a new feedback thread will be created for the new guide, meaning that this one will be archived. Any feedback you have for the new guide should be placed in the new comment thread.

Thank you all for your patience and we are working to get the new guides up as soon as possible.