Damien

Unholy Death Knight 7.2

399 posts in this topic

This thread is for comments about our Unholy Death Knight guide for Legion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello guys, keep in mind that this guide is for pre-patch only and everything can change at any time. Also the gear list right now isn't accurate, i'd try to put a *BiS* these days. Special thanks once again to TheQ and Mini who plays in Midwinter.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, BigKingAlexxx said:

Are the trinkets in the bis list really in the right order?

Not really. I'm running sims every day and will be updating as SimC continues to improve, but right now, it's a bit meh. I'll put disclaimers everywhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BigKingAlexxx said:

Are the trinkets in the bis list really in the right order?

Trinkets most likely would be Skull of War + the BoA trinket for demonds, vs non demon Skull of War and the Alchemy trinket. Anzu's Cursed Plume could be used too, like i said i'd put a list these days, the gear & trinkets require some testing.

Edited by Tegu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you guys think about Death Strike vs Death Coil as a Runic Power spender?

Also you forgot to include runic power spenders entirely in the rotation. Or is it actually a DPS increase to omit them and only use them when you use Dark Arbiter?

It seemed to me like spending Runic Power to activate Runic Corruption would be beneficial but oh well. Would we want to only use it to prevent capping Runic Power? I'd assume we want to pool RP for Dark Arbiter, but when it's on cooldown and/or not about to come off CD, would it be beneficial to just burn RP or to keep it high, spending it only to prevent capping?

Edited by Ammako

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Ammako said:

What do you guys think about Death Strike vs Death Coil as a Runic Power spender?

Not worth it, Death Coil scales with Mastery while Death Strike doesn't. Death Coil costs 10 less runic power and on top of that restoring energy to your pet. Death Strike doesn't work with neither of the Shadow Infusion / Necrosis / Infected Claws talents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's what I thought too, but some people are dead set in thinking that Death Strike is better than using Death Coil just because it dealt more damage per runic power when they tried it on target dummies.

Edited by Ammako

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well there were rumours that Death Strike is better to be used during Dark Arbiter duration but that wasn't the case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Tegu,

First and foremost: I'm no Genius nor great theorycrafter so everything i write here is personal experience.

May i ask you, how Ebon Fever is better than Bursting Sores in ST?

The wounds are more or less our strongest source of dps and should therefore be pushed further, right?

In Addition to that i have to mention that, Castigator is much stronger than Clawing Shadows with the Skull of War Trinket. If (!) a certain amount of Base Crit is given. The synergy with Pestilent Pustules is also better.

That synergy also applies for Infected Claws as festering wounds are applied quite reliably with the t18 4-set.

The dps difference between the recommended choices and the crit style play was always ~ 5-7k for me with crit in favor.

In hope of a quick response,

Ebon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Ebon, i just discussed the exact same topic with perhaps your friend ? Anyway in theory Bursting Sores should be the talent picked for SIngle Target if tuned right but on beta it wasn't the case and  even if additional target was appearing  Ebon Fever was getting out of hand. The wounds were not even close  to our strongest source of dmg for single target, Clawing Shadows was around 30 % followed by 20 % Virulent Plague, pets and then Festering Wound. The only boss worth testing that theory you've got is Zakuun which is  1 boss out of 13 but i wouldn't change my gear just for that one even if somehow turns to be better than Ebon Fever. Not to mention the fact that if you get seeds you can dps with Clawing Shadows. Keep in mind that most work is been done without sims and based on beta testing so everything is tuned around level 110 and having Artifact Weapon. The logs that i would get tonight and tomorrow are gonna help with clearing things out and i would keep the guide updated for you guys on daily basis. Your feedback is very much appreciated

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i plan to reroll a dk for legion (currently ret...). so I have no experience with the dk whatsoever and I was wondering what racial [H] ability would be the best (in combination with frost and uh).  all I could find was an old sim on the mmochampion forums... blood elf > orc. is blood elf still the way to go ?

(I know the differnce is small but hey, if it's for free why not take it ^^)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless they change something with the racials i would be playing Blood Elf, helps a lot especially with Dark Arbiter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update: The Stat Weights  for Unholy were updated and should be fine for pre-patch. Enchants & Gems also changed to Haste > Mastery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, BigKingAlexxx said:

what will my multistrike gems convert to?

I think they did convert to Haste on Beta so it's probably Haste ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wouldn't blood fury be better since it increases the attack power and it's duration is also 15 sec. 

also do I ge it right, dark arbiter casts Val'kyr Strike witch deals 7*AP Shadow damage and the Val'kyr's AP is 33% of my AP ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tegu said:

Update: The Stat Weights  for Unholy were updated and should be fine for pre-patch. Enchants & Gems also changed to Haste > Mastery.

Why is Haste more important than Mastery now ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Tegu - great work on the guide.

I have 2 questions:

Firstly, how did you decide that haste is better than mastery? I am not questioning it, just wondering how you guys came to that conclusion.

 

Secondly, I was testing on PTR last week and I did a lot of single target DPS tests (on the raidboss dummy in ebon hold). I came to the conclusion that infected claws was the best ST DPS talent in that row instead of reducing the CD on dark transformation. What I noticed was that in a typical 3 minute run I was getting out ~15-20 more clawing shadows/scourge. It wasnt a massive DPS gain but it was noticeable. Probably a moot point until Blizz finishes tuning anyway, but I found it interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Guest playerunknown said:

wouldn't blood fury be better since it increases the attack power and it's duration is also 15 sec. 

also do I ge it right, dark arbiter casts Val'kyr Strike witch deals 7*AP Shadow damage and the Val'kyr's AP is 33% of my AP ?

About the racials, Blood elf is just too strong not just because of the 20 rp evey 1.5min but also the silence you are going to be using in Mythic+ and Raids on top of that +1% critical strike chance.

Regarding Dark Arbiter yes, it should be 7*AP Shadow damage, 33% AP and increasing damage 1 % per runic power you spend also stacking additively, not multiplicatively. 

Edited by Tegu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Guest A curious DK said:

Why is Haste more important than Mastery now ?

Because with Haste you do significantly more single target damage, mastery boosts your AoE damage.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Guest CrusRuss said:

Hi Tegu - great work on the guide.

I have 2 questions:

Firstly, how did you decide that haste is better than mastery? I am not questioning it, just wondering how you guys came to that conclusion.

 

Secondly, I was testing on PTR last week and I did a lot of single target DPS tests (on the raidboss dummy in ebon hold). I came to the conclusion that infected claws was the best ST DPS talent in that row instead of reducing the CD on dark transformation. What I noticed was that in a typical 3 minute run I was getting out ~15-20 more clawing shadows/scourge. It wasnt a massive DPS gain but it was noticeable. Probably a moot point until Blizz finishes tuning anyway, but I found it interesting.

 

Because the stat weights were simmed multiple times and the results were clear that Haste  > Mastery for single target Mastery excels at AoE.

Before the 10 % nerf to our pet's Sweeping Strike/Gas Cloud - Shadow Infusion was around 4,5k above Infected Claws and now even with the 10 % nerf Shadow Infusion simming higher, on top of that t18 2P gives 20 % dmg boost to your pets which is huge and  makes Shadow Infusion even more attractive.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Tegu said:

 

Because the stat weights were simmed multiple times and the results were clear that Haste  > Mastery for single target Mastery excels at AoE.

Before the 10 % nerf to our pet's Sweeping Strike/Gas Cloud - Shadow Infusion was around 4,5k above Infected Claws and now even with the 10 % nerf Shadow Infusion simming higher, on top of that t18 2P gives 20 % dmg boost to your pets which is huge and  makes Shadow Infusion even more attractive.

 

 

 

 

Thanks.

Talking about set bonuses, what do you think about T19? I havent had a chance to try it but in theory I think the 4p might not be very helpful and in some cases detrimental. for e.g. you are setting up for (4-5 seconds away) soul reaper so you get 3 stacks of wound on target, then you get sudden doom or capped RP so you need to fire off death coil but it pops your wounds (50% chance lol?) now you need to spend another festering strike to add more wounds but this means you wont have enough runes to cast 3 scourge strike back to back (which you need to do on consecutive GCD's to make the 5 second window) and you cant afford to wait for runes to recharge in that short window.

I wish the 4p was a chance to ADD a wound not pop one... am I overlooking something about the 4p that makes it good or am i right that it will be a pain in the a$$.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@CrusRuss i haven't really thought about t19 yet but looking at it right now  i find it really disappointing imo. They need to buff Festering Wounds  but even then  the tier doesn't really look all that attractive,  they can also change it so we are gonna have to wait and see how things turn out to be.

Edited by Tegu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Stan

      May is ahead of us and Blizzard published a list of events that await us in Azeroth in the upcoming month. 
      Don't forget to check out our "This Week in WoW" series (published every Tueday), where we preview all events in more detail on a weekly basis!
      Blizzard (Source)
      Time flies when you’re fighting the Burning Legion! May is already looming over us, much like the Sentinax looms over the Broken Shore. Despite the long shadow cast by this Legion ship, Azeroth’s champions fight on—and there are still bright moments ahead. Keep an eye on your in-game calendar for exact start and end times of the many events this month so you don’t miss a thing!
      In Game Events
      Children's Week (May 1 - 8)

      Show an orphan what the hero’s life is like! Visit Orphan Matron Nightingale in Orgrimmar, Orphan Matron Mercy in Shattrath, or Orphan Matron Aria in Dalaran and make a child’s dream come true.
      Battleground Bonus Event (May 2 - 8)
      While this event is active, random Battlegrounds will award Honor at an increased rate. Glory awaits in the fields of battle!
      PvP Brawl: Warsong Scramble (May 2 - 8)
      Do you have a flag? Warsong Gulch has always been the scene of an epic capture-the-flag battle, but what happens when you can capture your enemy’s flag without having your own at your base? Find out when you step into this PvP Brawl! We’ve also added a few more power-ups to the field of battle to stir things up a bit. To win, your team will need to be the first to capture five flags.
      Darkmoon Faire (May 7 - 13)
      Meet Silas Darkmoon and his troupe, play games that test mind and nerve, and behold exotic sights from the four corners of Azeroth and beyond!
      Legion Dungeon Event (May 9 - 15)
      While this event is active, the final boss of each Legion dungeon awards an extra item when defeated.
      Spring Balloon Festival (May 10 - 12)
      The skies are clear; the wind is calm—it’s a great day for hot air ballooning. Hop into a hot air balloon, enjoy the scenery, and make some new friends!

      Pet Battle Bonus Event (May 16 - 22)
      While this event is active, your pets will earn experience at triple the usual rate! Get out there and battle!
      PvP Brawl: Deepwind Dunk (May 16-22)
      Can you even dunk? If you want to win this Brawl, you’re going to need to work on your skills because Dunkball has come to Pandaria. You’ll race to claim balls from the map’s center, or northern, or southern mines, take them to your enemy’s base, and then go for a magnificent long range shot or go all in for the dunk.
      Cataclysm Timewalking Dungeon Event (May 23 - 29)
      While this event is active, players level 86 or higher may access a special Timewalking Dungeon Finder queue, which scales players and their items down to revisit past dungeons from the Cataclysm expansion. While Timewalking bosses will yield loot appropriate for a player’s regular level.
      Glowcap Festival (May 27)
      Today, the sporelings of Sporeggar in Zangarmarsh hold their annual mushroom festival. Help them keep the great Fshoo alive as long as possible!
      Arena Skirmish Event (May 30 - June 5)
      While this event is active, Arena Skirmishes will award Honor at an increased rate. Will you answer the call to battle?
    • By Alwaysmiddle
      Thanks for the ride guys, I hope everyone luck in the future. Our guild will be finished here, it's been fun.
    • By Stan

      Tuning for Beast Mastery Hunters continues and Blizzard reverted changes made to Wild Call triggering. Dire Beast and Dire Frenzy will have two charges baseline The Mantle of Command (Legendary shoulders) will be changed to increase the proc chance of Wild Call.
      Changes above should result in more Focus and a more fluid rotation for Beast Mastery Hunters.
      Blizzard (Source)
      Hi Beast Masters. We’ve been reading your feedback and trying different sets of changes for Beast Mastery Hunters internally and on PTR.

      To start, we are reverting all 7.2.5 changes we’ve made so far to how Wild Call triggers. Instead, Dire Beast and Dire Frenzy will have 2 charges baseline. The Mantle of Command (legendary shoulders that currently add +1 charge to Dire Beast/Dire Frenzy) will be changed to instead further increase the proc chance of Wild Call. 

      Overall, this will result in more Focus for all Beast Mastery Hunters, resulting in a more active rotation. Additionally, this gives all Beast Mastery Hunters access to a Dire Beast/Dire Frenzy with 2 charges playstyle that is more engaging and fun, allowing you to make decisions on when to use the buttons, instead of feeling like you should most often simply push them on cooldown.

      We’ve been trying other iterations of changes surrounding Dire Beast/Dire Frenzy and Wild Call, including increasing Dire Beast/Dire Frenzy Focus generation or versions that avoided changing the legendary shoulders drastically, but ultimately reached the conclusion that giving 2 charges to the abilities baseline, which many of you have asked for, was the best change for the spec at the current time. We appreciate your patience while we try different iterations on PTR.

      We are also making a few other less major changes to the spec in the next PTR patch, including: Aspect of the Wild will reduce the global cooldowns of your damaging abilities by 0.2 seconds, allowing you to more reliably spend the Focus you’re generating while it's active, especially with Dire Beast/Dire Frenzy going off. Kill Command and Dire Frenzy will cause your pet/Hati to charge up to 40 yds (up from 25 yds) to the target, matching the max range of your ranged abilities. When your pet casts Dash, Hati will also gain Dash for the same duration.
    • By Stan

      Volunteer Guard Day micro-holiday is here and Blizzard continues to discuss 7.2.5 Brewmaster Monk / Discipline Priest class changes.
      Volunteer Guard Day
      /Salute a guard to receive the Volunteer City Guard buff. You will be periodically attacked by City Invaders. The buff persists through death. More details are included in our preview here.
      Patch 7.2.5 Class Discussion
      Class discussions are ongoing for Brewmaster Monks & Discipline Priest. If you've missed the previous round you can find it here.
      Brewmaster Monk
      Blizzard (Source)
      Lots of great feedback here on the latest build so far. Thanks.

      Latest thoughts:
      Spitfire - It's a fun playstyle option for people, but having both defensive (even without it being an increase to Hot Blooded, it's still more Elusive Brawler stacks) and offensive value (more Breath of Fires for damage), it's hard to fit it anywhere in the talent tree, and it complicates artifact trait values. We're going to just cut if for now (may return at some point in the future when it fits in better). Niuzao will return, and will simply deal more damage to make him competitive with the row.

      Blackout Combo - Yeah, the 2sec rotation is problematic. Some people like the frantic gameplay, but we think other talent combinations deliver on that better anyway. The main problems with it are that it invalidates a ton of other talent choices, actually *reduces* rotational choice because you just combo everything instead of having to choose what you combo, causes energy capping issues, is a massive buff to the talent potentially upsetting talent balance, and is too fast-paced without any other contribution. We're going to return it to 3sec, where you can pair it with other GCD-filling talents to create the frantic playstyle if you prefer, without causing the above issues.

      Hot Blooded and Dragonfire Brew - Baseline, Hot Blooded is very strong. 1% DR per bronze trait is already on the extremely strong side. The Legendary chest was created with Hot Blooded in mind as its defensive benefit. But that gets a little out of hand when we added 4th points to Bronzes, and you min/max relics, increasing it to the massively-OP level of 7% DR for a legendary. Then the 7.2.5 changes also add more Elusive Brawler stacks to that. We're going to adjust these two traits in order to better balance trait and legendary values: Dragonfire Brew will also increase the duration of Breath of Fire's DoT by 100%, giving it defensive value. Hot Blooded will now be active the whole time, instead of ~half the time without the Chest, and so is changing to 1% DR per point to compensate.

      EDIT: Overall Tuning - As always, overall tuning happens late in the process. Don't worry about overall power level of Brewmasters when giving feedback on these changes.

      Thanks all!
      I have a feeling there's a disconnect between how much the monk community value those elusive brawler stack and how the Developers value them.

      First off, as said many times, dodge doesn't do anything VS magic damage or VS any kind of boss threatening ability as they are undodgeable even if physical (ex: spellblade annihilate).

      From a mythic raider point of view, those dodge stacks hardly do anything, as bosses auto-attack (the only thing that's dodgeable) are the least threatening form of damage we have to face.

      From a M+ dungeon point of view, those stack comes and go so fast nobody will notice the buff... having 100% dodge chance for 1 auto-attack out of the 5+ weak mob training you hardly change anything... 

      It's also one of the reason people hardly, if ever, use blackout combo to empower purify.
      We value it based upon its actual real world value, not a theoretical worst case that doesn't actually exist. You should too.

      Yes, Elusive Brawler does nothing against Magic/undodgeable damage. However, apart from some extremely niche situations like Star Auger, it's not that piercing damage alone that kills you; it's the combination of those and other damage that is dodgeable. Nowhere is this more true than on Brewmasters, where there is no spike damage, only smoothed total damage (which is mostly auto attack damage). Mastery drastically reduces the total damage you take, which is the only thing scary to a Brewmaster anyway.
      Discipline Priest
      Blizzard (Source)
      Thanks for all the feedback. As I mentioned last week, there was a lot of rapid iteration going on so it was hard to give any detailed updates. This build is a more complete set of changes that seems to be going in a good direction, though there are still some issues to work out.

      --Talent balancing. In particular, Evangelism is an idea we like, but finding serious competition for it as a raid talent might be hard. It probably needs to be against heavier hitters like Power Infusion (especially if that helps it be less of a one-note cooldown stacking build). There will likely be further iteration on talent arrangement to better accommodate the new additions.

      --Mana. The spell whose cost is most important for balance purposes is Plea, because it is now the most efficient way to convert excess mana into Atonements. We reduced the cost so it would make more sense when compared against Shadow Mend and Radiance, but have to keep an eye on whether that leaves mana as a reasonable limiter on how much Atonement you can spread over the course of an encounter.

      --Overall Atonement count. The changes in the last build helped fix a lot of mechanical issues, but also added a lot of raw power to the spec, particularly in terms of Atonement spread/uptime. And particularly Evangelism returns a lot of the burst-Atonement coverage that currently dominates Disc raiding. That's not necessarily a problem if everything else about the spec is working well, and it's good to continue having a bit of a niche that Disc is used to in Legion. But as discussed in my first post, if it's as easy to blanket the raid as it is on live, that limits the spec somewhat. 

      While this is something we'll monitor throughout PTR, especially with more internal and external raid testing, there is definitely a worry that in order to balance the spec at this point, the Atonement transfer % would have to go down, which is the opposite of the stated goal. We don't want to be in that position at the end of PTR when it's harder to make other changes.
    • By Stan

      Roundup of today's Live Q/A with Game Director Ion "Watcher" Hazzikostas. Tomb will open somewhere between mid to late June. Exalted reputation requirement for Class Mounts was removed. Legendary items will be upgradable through essences, similar to 7.1.5.
      Legion Class Q/A was considered multiple times, but talking about a single spec wouldn't be too compelling to viewers playing a different class.
      Broken Shore
      The team didn't want players to feel overwhelmed with all the content on Day 1, which is why they went for gating Class Mounts
      The Exalted reputation requirement (Armies of Legionfall) was removed and once you finish the Legionfall campaign (Breaching the Tomb), you can start working on getting your Class Mount CRZ Issues
      They're acutely aware of it and don't like server hopping, it's definitely on their radar In Legion they introduced server sharding which made Legion launch smooth Some addons encourage behaviors that do not complement this tech (World Quest Group Finder) Demon Assaults
      Won't reward Armies of Legionfall reputation  They would have to sprinkle all rewards everywhere It's okay to have activities up that offer distinct rewards (AotL reputation / Nethershards) that do not interest you Don't need Nethershards? Don't do the Sentinax Legion Assaults are great source of Nethershards. If it's up in a zone you've got your emissary up, it's super time efficient Excessive Order Resources
      Spending 7,000 per week for getting 3 Seals of Broken Fate is a significant drain They may offer a sink in the future, but nothing is planned for now It's good to have excessive resources so that players don't feel forced to do World Quests Heirlooms
      Coming in the next 7.2.5 build Legendary Items
      New Legendary items will be introduced in 7.2.5 If you have all Legendaries for your spec, you will don't need to micromanage loot spec, off-spec Legendaries will drop automatically E.g. Brewmaster Monk who has all Legendaries for his spec will see WW / MW Legendaries drop Blizzard is happy with the current Legendary acquisition rate There will be a quest that offers a new Distilled Titan Essence to upgrade 940 Legendary items to 970 Mythic+ 
      Week 1 Tomb: Nothing Changes Mythic Tomb Opens: Mythic Cap goes up to 15, where weekly cache is comparable to Mythic Tomb and Mythic+ loot to Heroic Tomb loot According to completion rates / completion times / 2-chesting / 3-chesting, things are in a good space right now, no plans for nerfs Overall, affixes are good, learning curves (Fel Explosives), Grievious runs, people put on Prydaz etc.It's good to evolve different strategies for different affixes Nighthold Mythic
      Progression is fluid, Elisande & Gul'dan are subject to nerfs Patch 7.3
      We'll go to Argus and there's a new raid, more information not available so far There will be no Class-specific quests in 7.3. Armies of Legionfall represents all the classes united Reputation Paragon
      Paragon emissaries have underwhelming rewards compared to normal caches. This will be discussed in the future Timewalking
      Black Temple is tied to Burning Crusade Timewalking. Blizzard wants to come to a point where every Timewalking week will have a Timewalking raid associated with it Tomb of Sargeras
      Will open mid to late June More testing will be done on PTR (LFR Wing 1 opens this weekend) Items will have a +30 item level ceiling Gear will Titanforge to 955 Misc Questions
      Why are external buffs like Innervate and Greater Blessing of Wisdom still a thing? Did we learn nothing from Symbiosis?
      It doesn't feel good to need an external buff to feel viable. Disc Priests in 7.2.5 received changes to be less dependent on Innervation. Such spells help class identity It's better to fill a blank: bring the player, not the class. When you're looking for players, it's better to realize that you need a class that brings a buff rather than the highest item level player in the queue. You needed 5 Holy Priests for Felmyst. You could not be viable as a melee DPS if you didn't have a Warrior to give you Battle Shout, but that was nearly 10 years ago Will the Horde get an update on what's happening on their side? Sylvanas / Blightcaller / Volj'in?
      Vol'jin's dead. It's good not having to force this by a symmetry. They'll add a Horde part of the story when they feel it's right. At the start of the Broken Shore experience, Horde did have an additional cinematic.
      Will we ever be able to use Weapon Illusions on our Artifact?
      No. It was a really early decision by the Art team when they started working on Artifact weapons
      Will we be able to redo Mage Tower Challenges?
      Wasn't designed to be a repeatable thing, but this will be done in the future