Havoc Demon Hunter 7.3

[Guest Noxeo]

2 hours ago, Lockybalboa said:

Yes it is.

No it doesn't. CD is 2 min, duration is 1 min.

I think you didn't understand what I wanted to say.

It has a 100% uptime with your other cds. Meaning the whole duration of metamorphosis is 20% stronger.

If you take momentum you will get idk 50% uptime of the 20% dmg buff?

That makes nemesis way stronger when you are using your cds. 

The big question is if momentum can outscale this in the long run.

Besides you have a bigger uptime against bosses with a small hitbox.

 

[wordup 37]

11 hours ago, Guest Nosferaturas said:

Quick question:  Is the ring that drops in the Court of Stars, which gives 10% more auto attack DMG, good enough in a Demon Blades build? As long as Demon Blades is viable? Seems like a good fit, but on the other hand 10% are not that much. Cheers  I would love to hear something on that

It doesn't affect Demon Blades procs, so isn't really a major factor as Auto Attacks aren't a very big part of our breakdown. The stats on the ring however make it worth using anyway just for that, but the extra effect is not worth sacrificing for.

[wordup 37]

2 hours ago, Guest Noxeo said:

I think you didn't understand what I wanted to say.

It has a 100% uptime with your other cds. Meaning the whole duration of metamorphosis is 20% stronger.

If you take momentum you will get idk 50% uptime of the 20% dmg buff?

That makes nemesis way stronger when you are using your cds. 

The big question is if momentum can outscale this in the long run.

Besides you have a bigger uptime against bosses with a small hitbox.

 

You can easily maintain 60-70% comfortably on Momentum over the course of a fight, if you really want to push your uptime during Meta you can get 100% if you offensively use Blur to recharge your Fel Rush charges via Demon Speed, though I don't mention this in the guide because it's a big risk to burn your movement AND defense tools on DPS, but it is possible. Nemesis on the other hand isn't nearly as flexible, since you fill your dead time outside of Momentum generating unlike Nemesis which is still rolling while you're building with weaker spells.

[TeoStrife 1]

I was wondering if there's a certain soft cap on stats like haste - mastery. For example, if every slot of my gear has Crit - Vers (with emphasis on Crit) , would that be correct? Or should i focus on having haste and mastery on a certain point before i focus on Crit and Vers?

For example this is my current stat sheet, and 90% of my gear has Crit - Vers.

Is that considered to be correct?

Thanks in advance.

[Guest Keyadaridan]

Okay I have a question about Momentum. You say you want to keep a maximum uptime on the buff but at the same time don't clip. Also you say that Fel Rush and Vengeful retreat only benefit from the buff when it's active. My question is....do you use Fel Rush or Vengeful retreat RIGHT before it expires or as soon as it falls off?

 

My other question is about the same buff. Lets say I let it fall off. Should I build my fury back up before using Fel Rush/VR for the buff again? What I've been doing is building fury to about 40-50 then using FR/VR to gain the buff, then I spend my fury on CS and rinse and repeat. Am I doing it right?

[Guest Moon]

I would advise to cast felbarrage allways first. In order it will gain stacks from all other abilities. Specialy from fury of the illidary. Mostly like 2-3 and you will be able to cast it agian sooner.

[Guest Phrease]

There are so many things wrong with how this spec is laid out. Granted, it's very good for burst AoE damage (I've used the spec laid out before), but I can verify that it's sub-par for single target DPS, here's why. 

Demonic Appetite, when used with Anguish of the Deceiver, allows the player to more frequently use Eye Beam, which in turn, if the player decides to spec into Blind Fury, will allow them to add on an additional 5 stacks (instead of the 10). To top that off, if the player decides to spec into Feast of Souls, it'll reduce their cooldown of eye beam by 5 seconds every time a soul shard is collected, regardless if it's a lesser or greater soul shard. 

Fel Eruption is by far the biggest damage dealing ability for demon hunters as it deals massive damage, and if the target cannot be stunned deals 100% additional damage. Momentum only seeks to continuously use Fel Rush and Vengeful Retreat when actuality these are more survivability spells than damage dealing. Granted, when the player specs into talents that buff Fel Rush, there's only one talent in the artifact weapon that actually grants any benefit to this, Demon Speed, and even then, when using Blur, will reduce the players DPS. 

Also, speccing into Demon Blades is by far the poorest choice to go. By speccing into Demon Blades, you no longer can use Inner Demons on your artifact tree. Replacing Demon Blades, the player is further mitigating the use of their artifact weapon tree and solely relying on the talent tree for DPS, when in actuality, they should be hand in hand.

The talents used, in no way, can be used in sync with the artifact traits. I've seen countless demon hunters use this spec and vast majority of them do spike in the beginning of a boss fight. But their DPS after exhausting their cooldowns diminishes to the point where they're struggling to keep their DPS up.

The attached image is the current spec I'm using and allows me to consistently spike in both AoE and single target DPS.

 

 

 

[wordup 37]

7 hours ago, Guest Phrease said:

There are so many things wrong with how this spec is laid out. Granted, it's very good for burst AoE damage (I've used the spec laid out before), but I can verify that it's sub-par for single target DPS, here's why. 

Demonic Appetite, when used with Anguish of the Deceiver, allows the player to more frequently use Eye Beam, which in turn, if the player decides to spec into Blind Fury, will allow them to add on an additional 5 stacks (instead of the 10). To top that off, if the player decides to spec into Feast of Souls, it'll reduce their cooldown of eye beam by 5 seconds every time a soul shard is collected, regardless if it's a lesser or greater soul shard. 

Fel Eruption is by far the biggest damage dealing ability for demon hunters as it deals massive damage, and if the target cannot be stunned deals 100% additional damage. Momentum only seeks to continuously use Fel Rush and Vengeful Retreat when actuality these are more survivability spells than damage dealing. Granted, when the player specs into talents that buff Fel Rush, there's only one talent in the artifact weapon that actually grants any benefit to this, Demon Speed, and even then, when using Blur, will reduce the players DPS. 

Also, speccing into Demon Blades is by far the poorest choice to go. By speccing into Demon Blades, you no longer can use Inner Demons on your artifact tree. Replacing Demon Blades, the player is further mitigating the use of their artifact weapon tree and solely relying on the talent tree for DPS, when in actuality, they should be hand in hand.

The talents used, in no way, can be used in sync with the artifact traits. I've seen countless demon hunters use this spec and vast majority of them do spike in the beginning of a boss fight. But their DPS after exhausting their cooldowns diminishes to the point where they're struggling to keep their DPS up.

The attached image is the current spec I'm using and allows me to consistently spike in both AoE and single target DPS.

 

 

 

Demonic Appetite does not trigger Feast on the Souls nor Demon Soul, as lesser fragments do not interact with these. Therefore, you don't get extra Eye Beam casts, and it is universally a terrible talent that should be avoided because all it does is grant increased Fury gen (but less than Prepared which also interacts with Momentum). Blind Fury is equally awful, as it increases the opportunity cost of Eye Beam (which is already barely useful for Single Target with Anguish, and without very little) and the bonus to Anguish is not enough to make it better, given that Anguish really isn't a massive contribution.

Fel Eruption, again, is the worst talent on the tier. Whilst it may look high on the meters, the Fury cost and the loss of other talents that are either usable more frequently or have far better versatility pushes it very, very far down. Inner Demons is also triggered from Chaos Strike, not Demon's Bite/Blades, so it has absolutely no impact on that.

You are focusing a great deal upon how the artifact interacts, without taking into account that fundamentally, this spec deals more damage, more consistently, and in more frequent bursts whilst gaining more of a benefit. Given that Momentum is a flat damage increase to Fury of the Illidari as it will be active when you use it (so syncs with Rage), Demon Speed can be used with Momentum, and Prepared increases Fury gen to allow for more CS boosted up via Critical Chaos and Inner Demons, there's a massive amount you are leaving out.

Judging from what you're saying here (and the off the bat aggressiveness about how everything is wrong), I can tell very clearly that you have done very little in-game research on your claims to check them before you post it. I can tell though that you are taking talents specifically to avoid taking Momentum etc. and want to try to justify it, but unfortunately that's not possible at the moment because of just how good it is.

[wordup 37]

14 hours ago, Guest Moon said:

I would advise to cast felbarrage allways first. In order it will gain stacks from all other abilities. Specialy from fury of the illidary. Mostly like 2-3 and you will be able to cast it agian sooner.

Yeah I've been looking into that and am likely going to move Fel Barrage up to the top above Fury and Eye Beam to generate additional charges through the hits. Just making sure before I commit a change but all signs point to yes on that.

[Guest Keyadaridan]

On 9/9/2016 at 9:15 PM, Guest Keyadaridan said:

Okay I have a question about Momentum. You say you want to keep a maximum uptime on the buff but at the same time don't clip. Also you say that Fel Rush and Vengeful retreat only benefit from the buff when it's active. My question is....do you use Fel Rush or Vengeful retreat RIGHT before it expires or as soon as it falls off?

 

My other question is about the same buff. Lets say I let it fall off. Should I build my fury back up before using Fel Rush/VR for the buff again? What I've been doing is building fury to about 40-50 then using FR/VR to gain the buff, then I spend my fury on CS and rinse and repeat. Am I doing it right?

Wordup, could you answer this?

[wordup 37]

3 hours ago, Guest Keyadaridan said:

Wordup, could you answer this?

Generally clipping the last GCD of Momentum with another activator (you'd only ever do this with Fel Rush anyway as VR is low damage, and it doesn't pandemic) isn't worth it given just how tight it is to pull off outside of mass AoE, where momentum buffed Fel Rush can be valuable.

When it comes to resource, when it falls off you should try to build up resource for the next Momentum window you trigger, yes.

[neytirri 3]

question- i switched from demon blades to prepared as my 2nd talent and for some reason i seem to be taking a LOT more damage

is this common or??

[Valks 2,373]

8 hours ago, Sugartits said:

question- i switched from demon blades to prepared as my 2nd talent and for some reason i seem to be taking a LOT more damage

is this common or??

If you were swapping from Demonic Appetite I could understand the problem, but I'm not sure why this is happening for you. Perhaps a slight difference in playstyle?

[wordup 37]

21 hours ago, Sugartits said:

question- i switched from demon blades to prepared as my 2nd talent and for some reason i seem to be taking a LOT more damage

is this common or??

The only real consideration I could have is, if using Prepared you need a significantly higher awareness of fight mechanics surrounding you. If you aren't really as comfortable with encounters, I'd probably stick with either other options as the effect of using Vengeful Retreat and bouncing into a number of telegraphs is really painful.

[moddlock 2]

Thanks for the guide, I appreciate all the effort that's put into this. Some of the questions might be stupid but I have some trouble following the rotation ._.

1. I noticed that the image in the Rotation section below Momentum seems to be down:

Quote

Below is an image to show the optimal paths to use your activation skills to stay on target and minimise possible displacement that can have a large knock on effect. 

Could you maybe reupload this? Seems like something I could really use as I have some issues with keeping my DPS up.

2. I don't get this sentence:

1. Cast  Fel Rush a second time with  Fel Mastery is taken, but without  Momentum.

Why would you "open" the rotation like this when Momentum is the recommended talent? 

3. Why do you mention this in the standard rotation?

1. Cast  Annihilation when 30 Fury or less from your cap.

Annihilation is only available in Metamorphosis, right? So if Metamorphosis is not listed in the previous section, why don't you just call it Chaos Strike?

4. Do you think the nerf for Fel Barrage will effect your recommended talent choice? http://www.wowhead.com/news=256008/september-16th-hotfixes-tank-damage-and-aoe-nerfs

Edited September 17, 2016 by moddlock
more questions added

[CTEKK 12]

Can you elaborate a bit on stat priority?

What are the breakpoints and so on?

How much better is crit?
Would I take a 840 with crit before a 845 without crit?

[Lockybalboa 618]

1 hour ago, CTEKK said:

Can you elaborate a bit on stat priority?

What are the breakpoints and so on?

How much better is crit?
Would I take a 840 with crit before a 845 without crit?

From the guide:

Agility: 1
Critical Strike: 0.79
Versatility: 0.73
Haste: 0.7
Mastery: 0.58

If we then compare two pairs of boots, we can get a rough evaluation of which to use. Starting with Stained Maggot Squishers Icon Stained Maggot Squishers, these come with 1287 Agility, 454 Haste, and 641 Mastery, so we can use this to calculate a relative value:

454×0.7 + 641×0.58 + 1287×1 = 1976.58
Then comparing to Boots of Endless Betrayal Icon Boots of Endless Betrayal, these come with 1287 Agility, 383 Critical Strike, and 712 Haste, which can be evaluated in a similar way:

383×0.79 + 712×0.7 + 1287×1 = 2087.97
Through this we can see that the value of Boots of Endless Betrayal Icon Boots of Endless Betrayal is higher than Stained Maggot Squishers Icon Stained Maggot Squishers, and are the better choice to use. As said though, these weights can differ depending on the content you are doing, your talent selections, and the other gear you are currently wearing, as many stats synergise with others and scale exponentially, increasing their value. This is especially true for Havoc given that stats are so close in value.

 

 

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/havoc-demon-hunter-pve-dps-gear-legendaries-best-in-slot

[wordup 37]

13 hours ago, moddlock said:

Thanks for the guide, I appreciate all the effort that's put into this. Some of the questions might be stupid but I have some trouble following the rotation ._.

1. I noticed that the image in the Rotation section below Momentum seems to be down:

Could you maybe reupload this? Seems like something I could really use as I have some issues with keeping my DPS up.

2. I don't get this sentence:

1. Cast  Fel Rush a second time with  Fel Mastery is taken, but without  Momentum.

Why would you "open" the rotation like this when Momentum is the recommended talent? 

3. Why do you mention this in the standard rotation?

1. Cast  Annihilation when 30 Fury or less from your cap.

Annihilation is only available in Metamorphosis, right? So if Metamorphosis is not listed in the previous section, why don't you just call it Chaos Strike?

4. Do you think the nerf for Fel Barrage will effect your recommended talent choice? http://www.wowhead.com/news=256008/september-16th-hotfixes-tank-damage-and-aoe-nerfs

1: I'll see if there's an issue, the image still seems to be registering when I open it but will check.

2: It's there in the event Momentum isn't taken since some are avoiding it, with momentum it should be ignored.

3: Annihilation is mentioned because its rules are separate to Chaos Strike and is tied to your resource situation

4: It's unknown until its seen in-game and tested. It likely will change nothing for its strength in AoE, but will solidify Chaos Blades in ST.

[CTEKK 12]

11 hours ago, Lockybalboa said:

From the guide:

Agility: 1
Critical Strike: 0.79
Versatility: 0.73
Haste: 0.7
Mastery: 0.5

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/havoc-demon-hunter-pve-dps-gear-legendaries-best-in-slot

Thanks, I couldn't find these numbers in the guide stat priority section!

[neytirri 3]

On 9/16/2016 at 7:07 PM, wordup said:

The only real consideration I could have is, if using Prepared you need a significantly higher awareness of fight mechanics surrounding you. If you aren't really as comfortable with encounters, I'd probably stick with either other options as the effect of using Vengeful Retreat and bouncing into a number of telegraphs is really painful.

 

 

I havent been playing wow long so the dungeons still just seem like we're running around killing stuff with no real mechanics. However- a bit of commentary. "Prepared" did not work for me, and what i mean by this is I can absolutely see how it could be superior in raids however at this point my DH is only in dungeons and she is out-dps'ing people I can tell are using demon bite. The ability to handle how much fury you generate is vastly superior to making it passive, and when im out of abilities to spam i have to sit there and shoot blanks until ive got enough fury to do anything. So again- im sure its the superior talent for raids, but for dungeons maybe not so much.

[Whisla 76]

Can someone please answer a few questions I have.

1. are there any caps in the stat break down (Like getting 50% crit then no more)

2. Why is mastery so low. I can not seem to find an answer for this anywhere. Most of our hard hitters are chaos dmg and if you are using chaos blades (as most of us are) its value should only increase. Further, when in meta almost all the damage we do is chaos and gets more bonuses from mastery then vers as it does scale better.

 

Is it possible SIMs are just off with the artifact weapon traits?

[Guest Questionman]

Lately haste has been simmed really high, higher than versatility. Is crit/haste the way to go now? Should i soft cap crit at 40% and just fokus haste? Is there any soft caps? Crit just feels like such a weak stat when you start getting past 40%

[Valks 2,373]

23 hours ago, Whisla said:

1. are there any caps in the stat break down (Like getting 50% crit then no more)

Not sure about this one. Hopefully Wordup can help with this.

23 hours ago, Whisla said:

2. Why is mastery so low. I can not seem to find an answer for this anywhere. Most of our hard hitters are chaos dmg and if you are using chaos blades (as most of us are) its value should only increase. Further, when in meta almost all the damage we do is chaos and gets more bonuses from mastery then vers as it does scale better.

This is similar to Arcane Mage, where Mastery SHOULD be the top judging by the effect, but it very simply doesn't perform as well in the sims and testing currently.

23 hours ago, Whisla said:

Is it possible SIMs are just off with the artifact weapon traits?

If this is the case, we will update them as soon as it comes to light, but for now, we're working with the sims that are currently available.

[Valks 2,373]

22 hours ago, Guest Questionman said:

Lately haste has been simmed really high, higher than versatility. Is crit/haste the way to go now? Should i soft cap crit at 40% and just fokus haste? Is there any soft caps? Crit just feels like such a weak stat when you start getting past 40%

Can you show some form of sims that prove this?

Not doubting you, I just want to make sure that we are on the same page in regards to information.

[kilyiaz 0]

I find the mobility of this particular build the same as mine.  I even use the soul rendering as i like having an invincible dps mode (i typically call out for my healers not to heal me at all during that time). Im at the top of the DPS list every fight and dungeon ive been in the last week, and ive actually never seen a fel barrage hunter out dps me.  Currently im at 44%crit 6%haste 17%mastery 7%vers and pulling 200k+ avg, 275-375k+ on fights with multi targets (even if its just 2), and ive hit over 1.4million on some of the larger pulls. [These are the numbers i pulled in the ED Normal) [Also im currently 848ilvl w. no legendary, tho i pref my 844 gear over it for the stats]

I personally havnt tried the fel barrage builds as everyone i see on the charts doing them vs my mobility build tends to be close behind me but always behind.

Is there anyone who has tested this with similar stats between the 2 as ive never used fel barrage even to test it out.