Zadina

Blue Posts: MMR Debate, Tracer Nerfs, Account Suspensions

Sign in to follow this  

4 posts in this topic

16388-hots-tracer-release-date-and-detai

As the title indicates, there were some blue posts recently about three interesting topics.

The "MMR Hell" topic is quite popular in the Heroes of the Storm subreddit. Nostromia's challenge has heated up the discussions on this matter. BlizzLoesby explained how the system works and admitted it needed improvement. His post makes for an interesting read.

Blizzard LogoBlizzLoesby

+ Show
Hello, everyone!

There's a lot of interesting discussion going on in this thread, and I've been glad to read a lot of it. I'd like to clarify a few points to help you all understand some of what Nostromia is seeing on this account.

When Nostromia started playing seriously with this account, her MMR was in the bottom 0.01% of the Hero League population of Europe. As of this morning, when I started looking into this case, the account's MMR has risen to the 45th percentile. This is a massive improvement given the initial placement for her experiment. However, the Matchmaker has been performing admirably, according to the information it had at the time. Each of Nostromia's matches during her rise has been with and against players of similar MMR and Rank to her account's current rating, with very even win probability predictions. Because each of these matches looks even according to the available data, the Rating Update system will think "This player won in a game I thought was even. We'll increase her rating a small amount, since we were pretty sure she belonged here, and see how it goes with and against slightly better players." Winning and losing streaks are not factored into this update, because streaks of this length and consistency are extremely rare occurences, and honestly only happen when there is an extreme change in quality of play for a single account.

To put it simply, one player consistently beating players in Bronze League means the player should rise, but it does not mean the system should move them immediately to Platinum.

There is also talk of the seeming mismatch between Rank changes and MMR changes, indicated by Nostromia's consistently negative Personal Rank Adjustment which, as we've said before, is intended to push players to keep their MMR and Rank closely in sync.

By design, visible Ranks change more quickly than internal Player Ratings. Going on a winning streak is meant to feel good, and will get a player promoted, many times to a Rank that is a little bit higher than the player's normal skill. The length of Nostromia's winning streak is very much an outlier, which exposes the different update speeds much more visibly than players who stick to one account and slowly improve their skills will see. Once Nostromia reaches a rank with other players of her true skill, she will start winning and losing games at a more even rate. At that point, the two different systems will converge on each other.

I've watched Nostromia's stream for a while today, and it is very clear that her play is not that of someone in the lower half of our player base. We're actively researching ways to learn from players' individual performances, in order to move them to where a player of their skill belongs, more quickly. I can't promise timelines on this, or even that the research will bear fruit. We hope to be able to share news on this soon.

Thanks to everyone in this thread for the discussion and interest! All of your feedback is enormously helpful. We will continue to monitor the health of these systems, and work tirelessly to improve your experience as players.

Stay Tight!

P.S. As a side note, I do want to mention that we don't condone players intentionally losing games to lower their rank, nor do we condone account sharing. Intentionally losing games creates a negative experience for 9 other human beings in the game. Account Sharing is a violation of the Battle.Net End User License Agreement. The best thing players can do for themselves, and for their fellow players, is to play on their own account, work hard to win every competitive game, and treat all other players with respect and kindness.

(source)

The Auriel patch will launch this week and Tracer is going to get hit hard, as you can see from the PTR patch notes. A lot of people felt that these nerfs were too harsh, especially for an average-tier, gimmick hero. Game Designer AZJackson pointed out that Tracer can be extremely frustrating to play against and her current win rates are satisfactory.

Blizzard LogoBlizzAZJackson

+ Show
Hey there Eugenie,

I've seen a lot of debate about our Tracer changes and wanted to shed some light on what our reasoning was behind the upcoming patch.

To start, we're OK with heroes being under 50% at different points of play. There are a fair number of heroes who are under that win rate that are highly contested in either Hero League or Pro Play that would get out of control if we tried to buff them to be "healthy" at 50%. Tassadar, Illidan, and Abathur are some examples of these kinds of heroes. Tracer definitely falls into this category because she has a ton of mobility, is fairly difficult to play, but in the right hands and team compositions can be a nightmare for the enemy team (and incredibly frustrating to play against). Just because a hero is under or above 50% doesn't mean we will never nerf or buff them to make them match that number. I can tell you that Tracer is not a hero that we intend to be good in every team composition, and we don't expect her to perform at the same power level as a hero like Raynor in every game (we expect Raynor to be more consistent).

One of the most common reasons why we would, for example, nerf a hero who is under 50% is that they have a style of play that we don't consider healthy for the game. This was the case with Tracer's Spatial Echo talent. Tracer already walks a fine line in regards to counter-play where there isn't as much with her as many other characters, and Spatial Echo blew that completely out of the water by taking away the possibility of enemy players learning to look for her Recall location and punishing her once she uses her major cooldown. In general, we're pushing for Recall to be a stronger decision for Tracer players, and for her opponents to look for that cooldown as a window of time where she can be heavily punished.

In regards to her other talents, the changes were along the same line of thinking. Bullet Spray and Total Recall were giving Tracer powerful tools that were missing in her base kit (self-healing and wave clear + AoE damage), so we decided to tone them down to make her more streamlined overall.

Looking at her stats, since Gul'dan was released, her win rates look like this:

All Games (Quick Match + Unranked Draft + Hero/Team League): 49.8%

High rank Hero League: 49.3%

Considering she is intended to be more of a niche hero, these numbers are looking really good for her.

We'll be continuing to keep an eye on her, and if she is hit too hard in the upcoming patch, we're more than willing to buff up some other parts of her kit in the future. :)

(source)

Lastly, Blizzard has taken action against players who disrupted matches by going AFK or intentionally dying. Similar measures (targeting cheaters or win-traders) were taken this week in Overwatch and World of Warcraft, as well.

Blizzard LogoSpyrian

+ Show
We’ve just issued a round of account suspensions for players who are frequently reported for AFK/Non-Participation or Intentionally Dying during their matches. This initial wave of suspensions was targeted at a handful of users who have received an extraordinary number of reports over the past 30 days and whose in-game performance data clearly indicates a consistent lack of contribution to their matches. While only a few players have been suspended in each region this time, we anticipate that the number of accounts suspended, or in extreme cases, banned, will increase with future waves as we continue to refine and improve our processes.

Going AFK, refusing to participate, and intentionally dying are behaviors that ruin the experience for everyone else in a match and undermine the spirit of competition that’s essential to Heroes of the Storm. Taking part in such actions will not be tolerated. We encourage you to use the relevant reporting options when you spot players doing these things in your games. (source)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So basically what the system is doing explains MMR Hell! You win games you go high but your mmr only changes a little bit? so that means if you go high enough, your mmr is way lower than what your rank indicates, so you keep losing to stay in the same rank your mmr is. 

She might go up but what Loesby said is that she will lose more games soonish. So we can see her stuck in mmr hell sooner or later. I'm watching her stream right now, she's winning games where her team listens to her, but right now she's getting frustrated because her team is ignoring her pings and hints and they are losing, exactly a problem any skilled player might have. Specially in diamond where players think they are doing the right thing and ignore pings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just love how Blizzard nerfs heroes with high skill cap into the ground, because "  in the right hands and team compositions [a hero] can be a nightmare for the enemy team". But that's the whole point of having heroes like that in the game! They are very bad if the player is bad, but they are extremely good if the player is good. What's the point of having 50+ heroes in HOTS if no matter how skilled the player is, he/she is always limited by the hero design?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/6/2016 at 4:52 PM, Zadina said:

Tracer can be extremely frustrating to play against and her current win rates are satisfactory.

So the Hero is at a satisfactory level, but because people find her annoying to fight she gets nerfed? Classic Blizzard, nothing but a slave to the complaints they get on the forums, whether it's balance or not. The whole point of Tracer is to be a high skill cap annoying dps... she fit that perfectly before. Stop basing changes off what people don't like and start actually balancing your games.

under 50% win rates should never call for a nerf, ideally that would show balance in a character, over dominance such as 53%+ maybe but 49% win rates being worthy of a nerf? Seems like the balance team needs to learn the definition of the word.

Edited by WildNerdAppears

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Oxygen

      We present our ninth Heroes of the Storm Meta Tier List for the Garrosh patch of August 2017.
      Our ninth Heroes of the Storm Meta Tier List for the month of August 2017 is here!
       
      Welcome to Icy Veins's Meta Tier List for the Garrosh patch. The goal if of this list is to try and detail game's current metagame state. The prime goal of such lists is to inform players regarding popular and trending team composition drafting strategies (i.e. the drafting metagame). Although tier listings are generally the product of balance, many factors come into play when discussing the relative perceived strengths of heroes, including player regions, maps, play style, skill level, and, of course, personal perception. As such, any tier list—including this very one—should never be interpreted as gospel, but rather, as a guide to better grasp what to expect with regards to typical drafting experiences. One useful application of such lists is to allow you know which heroes to look out for in terms of practice and counterplay, ultimately improving your knowledge of the game.
       
      Using the list
      As stated above, tier lists are easy to mistake for gospel. As new strategies are discovered and experimented with, so changes the perception of the relative strengths of each hero. Tier lists still prove to be useful as a snapshot of player expectations in terms of drafting. Although it is generally considered preferable to focus on high tier heroes (Prime and Core tiers), it is important to note that Heroes of the Storm's wild character and map designs make it so that any given hero's tier position is prone to fluctuate depending on the situation at hand.
      One classic example of such is that of Kerrigan on the Infernal Shrines map. Although we currently judge her to be a mid-tier hero, her drafting priority shoots up to first-pick or first-ban material on this specific map due to the nature of its objective. Certain heroes also synergise so well with each other that the sole fact of having the opportunity of drafting them together is generally enough to increase their potential. Tassadar and Tracer, for instance, are generally nightmarish to deal with for many. There are too many examples of these interactions to reasonably produce here, but we invite you to consult our guides to know exactly where and when each hero shines. The guides have been linked in the lists below for your convenience - just click any of the hero names to access them.
      A ↑ next to a hero's name means its tier list position has increased since the previous month whereas a ↓ means just the opposite. Additionally, a + or - sign indicates short-to-medium term predictions (which is to say, about a month) for tier increase(s) or decrease(s), respectively. These are often updated after significant balance patches and/or when clear trends are emerging.
      If you're newer to the game, also consider visiting our glossary for a comprehensive list of discrete Heroes of the Storm terms.
       
      Prime Tier
      Warrior Assassin Support Specialist Anub'arak  Genji Uther - Stitches↑ Greymane↑ Tassadar↑     Malthael     Prime tier heroes are considered to be extremely strong in all situations, and show no obvious weakness. They are very often banned or picked right away, as they generally dictate the pace of most matches.
       
      Core Tier
      Warrior Assassin Support Specialist Arthas Falstad Auriel Nazeebo Dehaka Gul'dan- Rehgar Sylvanas Diablo+ Li-Ming Stukov Xul↑ E.T.C.↑ The Butcher↑     Garrosh (new!) Valla     Sonya Zeratul     Varian (Tank)                       Core tier heroes are strong in a wide variety of situations and have few counter-picking possibility. They should form the core of your team, and be picked after Prime Tier heroes have been distributed.
       
      Viable Tier
      Warrior Assassin Support Specialist Artanis Alarak Brightwing Abathur Chen Cassia↑ Kharazim Azmodan D.Va↓ Chromie Li Li Zagara+ Johanna↓ Jaina Lt. Morales Probius Leoric Kael'thas Lúcio   Muradin Lunara Malfurion↓   Tyrael Ragnaros Tyrande   Zarya↓ Samuro       Thrall↓       Tracer↑       Varian (Damage)-       Zul'jin             Viable tier heroes are generally well-rounded that have either fallen out of favour, or, inversely, are on the rise in popularity, due to the current Prime tier contenders.
       
      Niche Tier
      Warrior Assassin Support Specialist Cho'gall Cho'gall - Gazlowe↓ Rexxar↓ Illidan   Medivh   Kerrigan↓   Murky   Nova   Sgt. Hammer   Raynor       Valeera↓       Tychus     Niche tier heroes have niche application on certain maps or for certain team compositions. They are generally picked to "round out" your team composition when your team composition is missing out on key components, such as a "jungler" (mercenary camps), a solo laner, or solid waveclear.
       
      Bottom Tier
      The Lost Vikings Bottom tier Heroes are deemed to be either considerably weaker than the majority of other Heroes, or much more challenging to play properly. Although they may situationally shine, these Heroes are generally avoided by most players.
       
      Metagame assessment
      Greetings. Regulars may have noticed that the changes featured in this month's list have been more aggressive than usual. In essence, I feel like a clear metagame is finally begin to emerge after a slew of important changes, making it easier for me to pinpoint notable trends. And so, the result is a volatile tier list that should be extremely stable next month. Shall we begin?
      I like Garrosh quite a bit, and I can't help but feel that the combined novelty and high skill cap skew his win rates towards the bottom of the roster. Case in point: his Master level win rates are nearly 12% higher than his Bronze level win rates. This is a case of Medivh all over again; however, whereas both Garrosh and Medivh did start at 30-something-percent win rates, Garrosh has been steadily climbing over the week. Both Diablo and Stitches are currently very popular picks, and Garrosh provides similar utility through his Groundbreaker + Wrecking Ball combo. Talents to watch out for are undoubtedly Warbreaker (reduced cooldown on Groundbreaker, level 1) and Intimidation (40% reduced attack speed on targets hit by Groundbreaker, level 7), which allow Garrosh to neuter basic attack reliant heroes much earlier than other heroes can. Into the Fray (can use Wrecking Ball on allies once every 30 seconds, level 7) is also an interesting one as it gives Garrosh his own version of Cleanse and  the ability to say 'hey, you're mispositioned, stop it', which should come in handy whenever an ally is, well, not standing where they should be. It also breaks Lamb to the Slaughter on top of a few other nasty heroic abilities, which is great.
      Stitches has finally ascended to godhood, and although I was slow to give him a seat in the core tier, repeated high level hero league bans and a high amount of tournament play speak for themselves. As stated last month, the Slam build remains an easy way of topping the damage charts all while being difficult to kill. Gorge has also seen an upsurge in popularity, and particularly on maps where combat tends to happen close by fortifications, such as Dragon Shire, Tomb of the Spider Queen, Towers of Doom, et cetera. Couple this with Falstad's Mighty Gust, and you have a game winning combo that isn't all that difficult to pull off.
      I don't have much to say about Greymane that isn't self-obvious; Cursed Bullet is a great choice in a meta where healthy tanks are popular, though Go for the Throat is also re-emerging for blowup team compositions, thanks to its reliable damage and gap closing feature, on top of its ability to reset.
      To shoehorn last month's tier list again, I made a snarky comment about Tassadar always being either too strong or too weak. Right now, he enables two borderline heroes–Illidan and Tracer–on top of providing flexible heroic ability choices for both more defensive and blowout team compositions. His versatility just makes him never feel like a bad pick, and Oracle keeps the Zeratuls at bay as a bonus.
      E.T.C. is this month's surprise as players sift through forgotten heroes to solo tank, provide potential mapwide mobility through Stage Dive, and just generally provide reliable crowd control. You'll note a sore lack of interruption from a lot of high tier picks as well, making Mosh Pit about as good as it'll get.
      We haven't seen The Butcher be more than a one trick for nearly two years now, but the brute is back in force, thanks for buffs several players have misinterpreted as nerfs. I suspect, however, that some of his newfound success may be due to players having some difficulty adapting to his new gank-heavy playstyle and generally counterpicking him. Shall the Brightwings, Cassias, and Li Lis of the world rise up to the challenge?
      Xul has continued to perform well, and although he is the second least popular core tier hero (right behind Zeratul), he will keep on being effective on Blackheart's Bay, Dragon Shire, Gardens of Terror, Infernal Shrines, and Towers of Doom simply due to the importance of having a strong split pusher on these maps. Just make sure you go for Skeletal Mages, which tend to block a lot of those abilities strong tanks currently rely upon to get picks, on top of being generally disruptive.
    • By Stan

      Lost Cavern is a single-lane battleground that has been chosen for this week's brawl! Complete three matches to earn a Loot Chest.
      Blizzard (Source)
      This week’s brawl is Lost Cavern! It’s all-out mayhem on our single-lane battleground – Lost Cavern. Queue up, choose your Hero, and try to best to bring down the enemy Core!

      Rules:
      Shuffle pick - Choose from one of three Heroes before entering the battle. Standard play - no talent or level restrictions. The first team to destroy the enemy Core wins! Rewards:
      Complete three matches of Lost Cavern to earn a Loot Chest! Find out more about the Heroes Brawl game mode on our Heroes Brawl site; and as always, you can find more information on this week’s Brawl by clicking the Brawl Info button at the bottom of the play screen when preparing to queue for the Brawl game mode.
    • By Stan

      The 90th episode of WTF Moments is here.
      Heroes of the Storm Highlights is back with the 90th episode of WTF Moments.
    • By Stan

      It's time to get hyped! Gamescom 2017 is just over a week away and even though Blizzard hasn't shared the full schedule yet, we'll get to see Team expert battling it out against Team Liquid on August 23 from 14:00 to 15:30 CEST.
      Both teams played against each other during Western Clash and Team expert easily defeated Team Liquid with a final score of 3:0. Will they be able to take revenge? Another interesting match is a YouTuber clash between Team ApeCrime & Team PietSmiet. Stay tuned for a full schedule.
      Blizzard (Source)
      Whether you’re an esports fanatic or just love live MOBA action, you’ll definitely want to catch our two epic show matches either in person or via live stream.
      Team expert vs. Team Liquid
      Some of the very best players in the world will be battling it out at gamescom, as Team Liquid and Team expert face off on Wednesday, August 23 from 14:00 to 15:30 CEST.

      Team expert
      Based in Germany, Team expert is known for executing unique drafts and utilizing niche heroes. Their roster is well accustomed to success—they finished second in the recent 2017 HGC Western Clash, and are currently ranked number two in the HGC Europe standings.
       
        Team Liquid
      Team Liquid boasts the longest running five-player roster in the HGC, and it just so happens that four of them are German! They’re sure to have plenty of local support at gamescom, which may be just what they need after recent battles with Team Expert. Their Heroes Showdown opponents knocked them out of the HGC Western Clash earlier this month. Can they take revenge in Cologne?
       
      Team ApeCrime vs. Team PietSmiet
      Get ready for the most legendary YouTuber clash this year! German music and comedy team ApeCrime will challenge gaming personalities PietSmiet on Friday, August 25 from 11:45 to 13:15. Be sure to follow along and find out who’ll be victorious in this battle of the titans.
      Team ApeCrime
      With more than five million subscribers over two channels on YouTube, ApeCrime is sure to have their fair share of fans in the gamescom crowd! Well known for their awesome music and hilarious videos, Cengiz Dogrul, Andre Schiebler, and Jan-Christoph Meyer will offer some top-notch entertainment on stage. With Michael ‘KendricSwissh’ Kratzel and Walter ‘MFPallytime’ Hopkins rounding out their team, they’re sure to bring a few surprises to the Nexus.
      Team PietSmiet
      PietSmiet has been producing gaming-related content since 2011, including “Let’s Play” videos, “Best Of” roundups, and their “Let’s Ask” series. More than two and half million fans follow their channels on YouTube, and they’re sure to earn a few more at gamescom. Chris Stachelhaus, Jonathan Apelt, and Sebastian Lenßen will be joined by esports expert Derek ‘DunkTrain’ Arabian and “Tryhard for Good” streamer Kevin ‘Kev1n’ Rubiszewski.