Damien

Heroes of the Storm Alarak

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This thread is for comments about our Alarak build guide.

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I don't understand one thing, Why is it called "Discord Strike Build" when not a single talent towards Discord Strike is being used in the build?

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2 hours ago, Guest Darkness said:

I don't understand one thing, Why is it called "Discord Strike Build" when not a single talent towards Discord Strike is being used in the build?

I made a mistake with the HTML, but have since corrected the issue. It is now displaying correctly.

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Maybe you know it already but havent write that yet about Alarak tactic vs Tracer. I notice that Alarak Counter-Strike protect against Tracer's R ability from damage. So maybe work against other high damage ability as well like Kael Fireball(?) And more. A tips if face Tracer. 

 

Otherwise CS are do not any damage back against all push (Auriel push, Thralls ultime etc), silence (Alarak) and more. CS may ability protect you from damage if use it right but Alarak do zero damage from his Counter-Strike ability if it isnt normal attack without any effect. 

Good against suprise attack when come from Sylvanas or Li-ming. 

 

I have not have any problem against Li-Ming. But maybe just me have face any good Li-ming player yet. 

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6 hours ago, Guest Phenom said:

Maybe you know it already but havent write that yet about Alarak tactic vs Tracer. I notice that Alarak Counter-Strike protect against Tracer's R ability from damage. So maybe work against other high damage ability as well like Kael Fireball(?) And more. A tips if face Tracer. 

 

Otherwise CS are do not any damage back against all push (Auriel push, Thralls ultime etc), silence (Alarak) and more. CS may ability protect you from damage if use it right but Alarak do zero damage from his Counter-Strike ability if it isnt normal attack without any effect. 

Good against suprise attack when come from Sylvanas or Li-ming. 

 

I have not have any problem against Li-Ming. But maybe just me have face any good Li-ming player yet. 

The guide is currently in an early release state, as the meta surrounding Alarak has not yet fully developed. That being said, let's talk about this stuff!

It is true that you can block a high damage Ability with Counter-Strike, and it does have a low cooldown. In some scenarios, it would be a great take at Level 10. I currently have Counter-Strike listed as a situational pick, because I think that Deadly Charge is better most of the time. Deadly Charge gives Alarak a massive gap-closer that deals a ton of damage as Alarak passes through enemies.

Tracer counters Alarak not because of her Heroic, but because of the constant damage stream from ReloadReload and her mobility from BlinkBlink. As for Li-Ming, I think it may be that you have not run into a good one yet. Even with Deadly Charge, Alarak simply lacks the tools to get into and stay within range of a Li-Ming who is respecting his position. She can throw damage at you from complete safety, because Magic MissilesMagic Missiles and Arcane OrbArcane Orb both out-range your highest range Basic Ability, Telekinesis. Unless she makes a mistake, all you can do is dodge.

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On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 11:25 PM, Straften said:

The guide is currently in an early release state, as the meta surrounding Alarak has not yet fully developed. That being said, let's talk about this stuff!

It is true that you can block a high damage Ability with Counter-Strike, and it does have a low cooldown. In some scenarios, it would be a great take at Level 10. I currently have Counter-Strike listed as a situational pick, because I think that Deadly Charge is better most of the time. Deadly Charge gives Alarak a massive gap-closer that deals a ton of damage as Alarak passes through enemies.

Tracer counters Alarak not because of her Heroic, but because of the constant damage stream from ReloadReload and her mobility from BlinkBlink. As for Li-Ming, I think it may be that you have not run into a good one yet. Even with Deadly Charge, Alarak simply lacks the tools to get into and stay within range of a Li-Ming who is respecting his position. She can throw damage at you from complete safety, because Magic MissilesMagic Missiles and Arcane OrbArcane Orb both out-range your highest range Basic Ability, Telekinesis. Unless she makes a mistake, all you can do is dodge.

Ok, I still havent face a good Li-ming I guess. Otherwise I have face Sgt Hammer and give Alarak really problem which I agree. And Tracer are hard to face alone. 

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I disagree with the weakness heroes entirely. If you grab the extra push distance and range on telekinesis, alarak makes Sgt hammer an easier kill if he has a helper with him. You just charge at her then push and silence her. Dead hammer. Same goes for Li-Ming and tracer, but you need the reduced cooldown on telekinesis rather than the range, all it takes is one landed discord strike and they're half dead. Then you can poke almost as effectively between lightning and a discord telekinesis combo on a 6 second cooldown.

 

In my opinion his real weaknesses are high sustain heroes like butcher, illidan (he dodges discord ezpz), raynor(silence doesn't block adrenaline rush), tychus etc who can deal a lot of damage without relying on abilities.

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3 hours ago, Guest WIZBIZ said:

I disagree with the weakness heroes entirely.

Nowhere near well versed enough with this hero to be able to respond properly, but I'm just tagging @Straften here. Wanted to comment to say that we are reading and taking note of what you're saying, but he'll be able to give a proper response/analysis of your comment.

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3 hours ago, Guest WIZBIZ said:

I disagree with the weakness heroes entirely.

Alright, let's take a look.

3 hours ago, Guest WIZBIZ said:

If you grab the extra push distance and range on telekinesis, alarak makes Sgt hammer an easier kill if he has a helper with him.

The weaknesses of any Hero can be helped by teammates. This is what makes the draft so important, and why certain team compositions have significant advantages over others.

3 hours ago, Guest WIZBIZ said:

...alarak makes Sgt hammer an easier kill if he has a helper with him. You just charge at her then push and silence her. Dead hammer.

Any Hero in the game is susceptible to being ganked, which is essentially what you are describing here with Sgt. Hammer. There are other factors at work here too; maybe I should add these to the explanation in the guide.

One of Alarak's most inherent weaknesses is his lack of waveclear. Sgt. Hammer will always outpush him in a 1v1 lane, and in most 2v2 lanes as well. This means that the Minions will be pushed forward. Alarak will be unable to safely charge straight at her, because he will draw agro from the Minion wave. If he does charge forward tanking damage, it is a red flag to Hammer that she may be getting ganked. A cautious player will simply move away and spit out Spider MinesSpider Mines. Hammer will usually maintain lane superiority until the map objective spawns. At this point Alarak will be forced to decide between clearing and catching up in experience, or allowing his structures to take damage while he heads to the objective with an experience disadvantage.

3 hours ago, Guest WIZBIZ said:

Same goes for Li-Ming and tracer, but you need the reduced cooldown on telekinesis rather than the range, all it takes is one landed discord strike and they're half dead. Then you can poke almost as effectively between lightning and a discord telekinesis combo on a 6 second cooldown.

Charging at Li-Ming is an incredibly bad idea, as she will easily kite away from you while inflicting massive damage. I would recommend avoiding her as much as possible until your team is ready to deal with her with you. Also, landing Discord Strike on a good Tracer is pretty much a pipe dream.

3 hours ago, Guest WIZBIZ said:

In my opinion his real weaknesses are high sustain heroes like butcher, illidan (he dodges discord ezpz), raynor(silence doesn't block adrenaline rush), tychus etc who can deal a lot of damage without relying on abilities.

These are good points, and are worth watching. As the meta continues to develop, I will update all sections of the guide with new information. 

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I disagree that Raynor Tychus have not give me a problem as you say. Tychus can you silence and stop his damage pretty easy and so on. 

Butcher strong autoattack and charge stun (late game) can give you problem then he get good start instead you start the fight and Illidan with jumping around make it hard to hits him with Alarak ability and they both mention are pretty strong duelist. That in my eyes I think you WIZBIZ may see them as a problem for Alarak. Alarak can be strong duelist but not easy duelist as Alarak as it is duelist as Illidan, Thrall or Kerrigan for example. 

I think Alarak strenght lies in teamfight. If Alarak pick second ultimate at lvl 20 then can Charge in the fight and try hits many enemy heroes as possible (at maps like get Punisher, Immortal and more) then Counter-Strike right after. Alarak have pretty high damage ultime and his strenght lies in ability that hit enemys heroes. So it can be be worth pick second ultime when playing Alarak. Alarak is unique assassin compare with other assassins. Alarak is actually pure Assassin that focus is on killing other team heros. And Alarak is one strongest on ganks other hero. But also it can easy get backfire and get gank as Alarak.

I hope my english wasnt so bad, if so I am very sorry :-( 

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5 hours ago, Guest Phenom said:

I disagree that Raynor Tychus have not give me a problem as you say. Tychus can you silence and stop his damage pretty easy and so on. 

Butcher strong autoattack and charge stun (late game) can give you problem then he get good start instead you start the fight and Illidan with jumping around make it hard to hits him with Alarak ability and they both mention are pretty strong duelist. That in my eyes I think you WIZBIZ may see them as a problem for Alarak. Alarak can be strong duelist but not easy duelist as Alarak as it is duelist as Illidan, Thrall or Kerrigan for example. 

I think Alarak strenght lies in teamfight. If Alarak pick second ultimate at lvl 20 then can Charge in the fight and try hits many enemy heroes as possible (at maps like get Punisher, Immortal and more) then Counter-Strike right after. Alarak have pretty high damage ultime and his strenght lies in ability that hit enemys heroes. So it can be be worth pick second ultime when playing Alarak. Alarak is unique assassin compare with other assassins. Alarak is actually pure Assassin that focus is on killing other team heros. And Alarak is one strongest on ganks other hero. But also it can easy get backfire and get gank as Alarak.

I hope my english wasnt so bad, if so I am very sorry :-( 

The Butcher and Illidan can both be annoying to deal with on Alarak. When facing The Butcher, Counter-Strike does seem like a good idea; however, I am not sure it would be very effective against Illidan. I will need to consider this and pick into Illidan this week in order to gather the necessary information; it does seem Illidan may belong on the counter list. 

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New change with Zarya Patch for Alarak are not big change. But Counter Strike now making Alarak Unstoppable and with increased damage can do 550 damage AoE front of Alarak. Which I think making a bit more viable take two Ultime ability. Then Alaraks strenght lies in ability damage against enemys heroes like a mage.

Counter Strike is now much better in teamfight there before the patch can be hard do damage because not only enemy heroes need to attack you but also can be countred by some crowd control which cancel Counter Strike before. 

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18 hours ago, Guest Phenom said:

New change with Zarya Patch for Alarak are not big change. But Counter Strike now making Alarak Unstoppable and with increased damage can do 550 damage AoE front of Alarak. Which I think making a bit more viable take two Ultime ability. Then Alaraks strenght lies in ability damage against enemys heroes like a mage.

Counter Strike is now much better in teamfight there before the patch can be hard do damage because not only enemy heroes need to attack you but also can be countred by some crowd control which cancel Counter Strike before. 

Counter-Strike is much more useful now that it also makes Alarak Unstoppable. I feel like it is a great option, and I take it much more often than I did before. I am very happy to see this change. :)

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On 2/10/2017 at 10:07 PM, Guest Farbas said:

The build should indicate if we should take Deadly Charge or Counter Strike first

I believe it does. You only take the double ult for the second build. The first build focuses on resets using Hasty Bargain.

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On 12/02/2017 at 10:50 AM, Blainie said:

I believe it does. You only take the double ult for the second build. The first build focuses on resets using Hasty Bargain.

Sure, but that wasn't my question. In the build where you take both ults, which one should we take at lvl 10 and which one can wait until lvl 20?

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1 hour ago, Farbas said:

Sure, but that wasn't my question. In the build where you take both ults, which one should we take at lvl 10 and which one can wait until lvl 20?

It depends on the team compositions. If you have no heroes that can start a teamfight, picking Deadly ChargeDeadly Charge is often better, especially on maps where you expect to see teamfights early on. If you feel like you'll need more survivability before you hit level 20, or if you already have enough team engaging heroes, Counter-StrikeCounter-Strike is usually better.
The build itself recommends taking Counter-StrikeCounter-Strike first. I rarely find myself in position where Counter-StrikeCounter-Strike would be required, so I pick Deadly ChargeDeadly Charge most of the time.
So, to sum this up - pick what you feel is better for given situation (or a skill you are more comfortable with), and if you have no idea what to pick, take Counter-StrikeCounter-Strike.

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8 hours ago, Guest XeaKon said:

I think the discord strike build would benefit more from talents that increase the range and push of telekinesis and also increase the silence duration

.https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/alarak#24.0!2111124

I feel like taking the talents that aim to buff the range/push are essentially just making up for one of two situations: either you are chasing an enemy after a fight that has likely already been won, or you aren't positioning yourself well enough to engage. I'm sure the build does work, but I don't think the talents are worth taking unless you are really struggling to get decent picks with the current build.

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Many of alarak's values are incorrect. Such as his healing on sustained power is 40% not 25%, Negatively channeled gives a base 150 and continually 3% not 200% and 5%. There are quite a few more inconsistencies in his talents.

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4 hours ago, Guest Lt.Grapefruit said:

Many of alarak's values are incorrect. Such as his healing on sustained power is 40% not 25%, Negatively channeled gives a base 150 and continually 3% not 200% and 5%. There are quite a few more inconsistencies in his talents.

The tooltips are out of date - the tooltip bot must have messed up, thanks for pointing it out.

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      Communication is key! When you’re not trying to bait a fight, you should make that as clear as possible to your teammates. “If there are times when you know you're just sneaking the Boss and you can't win a fight if they enemy team finds you, you should try and let your team know that like, 'Hey, we're trying to sneak this, if someone scouts us just back up and give it up unless it's almost dead'.”
      Sneaky, Sneaky, Dead.
      Sneaking Bosses can be good when you have Heroes that have high damage output such as Greymane, Sonya, or Jaina. “A common Boss sneak happens on Tomb of the Spider Queen,” said Cauthonluck. “If you can force the enemy team to clear the bottom Web Weaver last, your team can start Boss on top as soon as the Web Weavers die. It's very easy to kill and capture that Boss before the enemy team can rotate top from the bottom Web Weaver.”
      The Hail Mary Play
      When a game looks all but over, sometimes the only option is to pull a Boss and pray for the best. This fight usually determines the outcome of the game, so make sure your lanes are pushed out enough that catapults or a devious backdoor won’t spell your unfortunate demise before you engage. “The point of this desperation play isn't necessarily to get the Boss. If they don't fight you, you get it for free and it's a little bit of an advantage, but the entire point of that move is to get the enemy team to fight you while they're not quite 20. It's a valid strategy.”
      Should I Try and Solo the Boss? ave a Reason and Follow Through
      Short Answer? No.
      Long Answer: “I would almost never recommend soloing a Boss. Maybe with an Illidan and Abathur combo, it could be worth it—but in general, it takes so long that even if you're capable of doing it, it's far too risky and the map control you give up just isn't worth it. Anytime you have someone capable of soloing a Boss it's generally way more effective to just bring one extra DPS with them and kill the Boss much quicker and make yourself less vulnerable to being invaded. You can still have the same benefit, you're doing the Boss without the enemy team knowing and you can still do that while having three of your Heroes visible on the map instead of four. It's something that really shouldn't be attempted.”
      Thieves in the Night
      It is possible, albeit difficult, for Medivh to steal the Boss with Ley Line Seal. So, you’re casually strolling between mid and bot lane with some of your teammates minding your own business when you catch a glimpse of the enemy Varian wailing away on the Boss. Prepare to invade!
      “Tyrael's Holy Ground is your best friend when it comes to stealing a Boss," said Cauthonluck. "Although, Zarya's Expulsion Zone is also very good. Chen's Wandering Keg can achieve kind of the same thing, although it can be difficult to get all their members off the point long enough to capture it. Falstad's Mighty Gust is another tool, but it can be tricky to setup because it requires hitting the Gust into Barrel Roll from a very specific angle where it sweeps the entire enemy team off and leaves you on the point. Any time you do that you're basically resigning yourself to death. I would be very careful with that one.”
      To Defend or Not to Defend
      What is the best way to go about deciding who needs to defend against a pushing Boss? "Most of the time you're going to want to defend with everybody," said Cauthonluck. "However, if the enemy team isn't pushing with their Boss, it's usually best not to defend with all five but to have your highest DPS Heroes defending while your Warriors and Supports are doing useful things on the map such as soaking, defending other lanes, or doing Mercenary camps."
      As always, do your best to be constantly aware of the variables in play. "If you're one or two creep waves away from getting to 16 or 20, then it can be good to have four people defend and one person on your team go to soak that talent tier before you defend hard."
      Armed with this information, hopefully your next attempt at Boss will be a little more thought out. Check back with us tomorrow for more of Midgame Moves Week when Team Dignitas' Vilhelm "POILK" Flennmark explains how to recover from a lost team fight.