Flaccid

Resto Shaman stats

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Is too much mastery a thing? Gearing up for legion raiding, I've basically just been trying for item level and not worrying about stat priority. Now that I'm around 845+ ilvl I need to really start worrying about it. Right now I'm sitting at 104% mastery, 26% crit, and 4% haste. In 5 mans, this is awful, I really need to up my haste for sure, but what about for raids? I still think I can afford to drop mastery for haste and going off the sticky that talks about stats, I can probably afford to trade out crit for some haste as well. What levels are you guys looking to reach? I haven't played since cata and just came back for legion, are there still haste breakpoints you try to hit nowadays? Any help would be appreciated! 

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Well, your stats really look a bit off. :)

I personally disagree with Furty about stat prio for Resto Shamans (I'm raiding at resto shaman as my main for the last 4 years) and go with Gardiffs theorycrafting of Mastery>Haste>Crit.

Anyways, your Haste shouldn't be anywhere near 4% - it's very low. Don't forget that Haste is not only the cast speed but the amount of ticks from your totems and HoTs. Try to get it at least to 8%.

I don't think you should worry about Crit - we already have a baseline 5% Crit + Crit on the Artifact + Crit traits + a lot of gear now drops with Crit too, so you will never be low on it.

Try rather focus a bit to rise your Haste - it's an important stat for resto shaman.

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I'd have to respectfully disagree pandacho,

Mastery is clearly king, so no quibbling there, but in terms of haste with the combination of Crashing waves, Echo of elements talents, in conjunction with the tidal chains perk on our weapon my Healing waves are sub 1s cast time, on EVERY cast, Along with the Queen ascendant perk we can get 15% haste on any heal on top of that just by casting surge, Haste is a lacklustre stat. bringing crit easily into 2nd place.

Having said that HoT's matter and you do want at least 15% haste just to get that extra tick on HR. I haven't gone into the math on breakpoints yet for our HoT's but those are the only numbers we are going to be looking at for the future and not at the expense of mastery and crit.

Edited by Echoslayer

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Can I see your math formulas please? Because I can post here a full theorycrafting math for what I'm saying - it's not done by me but all the needed formulas and explanations are provided, while I never saw any kind of math that supports Crit being on the second place.

Edit: Actually I will post the formulas of Int>Mastery>Haste>Crit. The credit goes to Koor who did the math. You can check all the current theorycrafting done for the resto shamans by Koor and Gardiff on MMOC shaman class forum:

Spoiler

If we mark:

V - versatility

C - crit

H - haste

M - mastery

P - target HP percentage (0 - dead, 1.0 - full HP)

I - intellect (= spellpower)

E - spell coefficient

Then the heal amount of a spell L is approximated by:

L = (1+V)(1+C)(1+H)[1+M(1-P)]IE

 

When we calculate the partial derivatives, for example with respect to C we get:

DL/DC = (1+V)(1+H)[1+M(1-P)]IE = L/(1+C)

 

Or:

Crit: DL/L = DC/(1+C)

 

And similarly for other stats:

Versatility: DL/L = DV/(1+V)

HastE: DL/L = DH/(1+H)

Mastery: DL/L = DM(1-P)/(1+M(1-P))

Intellect: DL/L = DI/I

 

Using the secondary stats conversion ratio to one percentage: crit = 350, versatility = 400, haste = 325, mastery = 350/3, we get:

Intellect: 350 / I

Crit: 0.01/(1+C)

Versatility: (350/400)*0.01/(1+V) = 0.00875/(1+V)

Haste: (350/325)*0.01/(1+H) = 0.01077/(1+H)

Mastery: (350/(350/3))*0.01*(1-P)/(1+M[1-P]) = 0.03*(1-P)/(1+M[1-P])

 

Where the variables I, C, H, M are taken from the character info:

I: Intellect value

C: Crit percentage divided by 100 (e.g. 0.2 if you have 20% crit).

H: Haste percentage divided by 100

M: Mastery percentage divided by 100

 

And the variable P is our assumption on the target HP percentage (divided by 100), for mastery calculation. The value of mastery differs greatly depending on the target HP. I like to use a low P=0.25 value personally, assuming the target has a low 25% HP, since it shows the value of mastery when it really matters.

 

In Stage 1 we calculate the approximate heal increase, in percentage, expected from adding 350 stats. For example with stats at about 830 ilvl:

intellect: 22330 --> I = 22330

crit: 20.27% --> C = 0.2027

haste: 12.78% --> H = 0.1278

mastery: 67.78% --> M = 0.6778

versatility: 7.3% --> V = 0.73

 

We’ll get:

intellect: 350 / 22330 = 0.0156739811912226

crit: 0.01/1.2027 = 0.0083146254261246

haste: 0.01077/1.1278 = 0.0095495655258024

versatility: 0.00875/1.073 = 0.0081547064305685

mastery (P=0.25): 0.03*0.75/(1+0.6778*0.75) = 0.0225 / 1.50835 = 0.0149169622435111

mastery (P=0.50): 0.03*0.5/(1+0.6778*0.5) = 0.015 / 1.3389 = 0.0112032265292404

 

Stage 2 (optional): normalize values to intellect=1 to obtain stat weights relative to intellect:

int = 1

crit: 0.0083146254261246 / 0.0156739811912226 = 0.5304731021867485 =~ 0.53

haste: 0.0095495655258024 / 0.0156739811912226 = 0.609262280546192 =% 0.61

mastery (assuming P=0.25) = 0.0149169622435111 / 0.0156739811912226 = 0.9517021911360064 =~ 0.95

mastery (assuming P=0.50) = 0.0112032265292404 / 0.0156739811912226 = 0.7147658525655362 =~ 0.71

versatility: 0.0081547064305685 / 0.0156739811912226 = 0.5202702702702693 =~ 0.52

 

for gear at about ilvl 830:

int = 1

MasteryRating=0.95 (assuming target HP=25%)

MasteryRating=0.71 (assuming target HP=50%)

HasteRating=0.61

CritRating=0.53

Versatility=0.52

 

for gear at about ilvl 840:

int = 1

MasteryRating=0.963 (for target HP=25%)

HasteRating=0.725

CritRating=0.677

Versatility=0.642

Btw, HW casts below 1 sec wouldn't remove 1.5 sec GCD - you will have to wait before the next cast.

The explanation (all credit goes to Gardiff):

Secondary value of Haste:

Tidal Waves, Queen Ascendant, Wavecrash all scale multiplicatively and thus independently of Haste. This means that having any of these 3 abilities does NOT alter the its stat weight. It is a false notion that having these 3 abilities makes Haste weaker. Just because these spells may give you fast casts, doesn't mean Haste is all of a sudden a weaker stat because none of these abilities affect the GCD. If you cast a HS with 4/3 points in QA, your HS cast time is 1.2 seconds. However, the GCD remains at 1.5 seconds. In essence, this would mean QA/Tidal Waves can at times result in no actual output gain (CH is the obvious exception since it will basically never go below the GCD) because if you are casting faster than the GCD, you are going to be waiting around for a while until you can cast again. Thus, Haste does not magically become a weak stat with QA, Tidal Waves, or with them combined.

What this means is that Haste is actually so much stronger because of the fact that it double dips on Riptide HoT/HR/HST and actually has no negatives from our talents (unlike Crit).

Spoiler

The value of Crit.

Unlike Haste that scales multiplicatively, all the passives / spells for Crit (Tidal Waves, Floodwaters, Empowered Droplets) all scale additively with Crit and this is why Crit is a poorer stat.

Please don't be tempted to think stacking a massive amount of Crit will suddenly cure you of your mana problems. This has been discussed ad nauseum on the forums, but the gist of it is that the resurgence mana gains for basically anything except HW (and potentially Riptide but you can't spam it) are less than ideal and stacking a massive amount of Crit won't suddenly sustain an expensive playstyle (i.e. CH /  HS spam).

Anyway, back to Crit and the passives that hurt its value:

1) Empowered Droplets: Adds 6% Crit to Healing Rain that is routinely ~12-13% of our overall raid healing. This can be approximated as having an overall extra 0.75% baseline Crit.

2) Floodwaters: We are going to be conservative here, even that others who spam CH harder on beta raids may disagree. But spamming CH harder than the ‘standard’ estimate, the value of Crit will actually be even less. Anyhow, estimated as adding 10% Crit to a heal that is 15% (in a real duration encounter with good usage, but not insanity like it is in a 2 minute live encounter) of our overall output. This can be approximated as having an overall extra 1.5% baseline Crit.

3) Tidal Waves: In a Legion raid setting, people are not using Healing Surge too often in any true duration raid encounter (especially with HW + Tidal Waves). As a result, this never breaks ~1-2% of the overall output (in 5 mans, it is obviously almost ~20x higher, but our focus is on raids). So this is what we are going to estimate. Assuming 3/3 Tidal Chains and assuming every HS is affected by Tidal Waves, this comes out to 52% additional Crit for each HS. This can be approximated as having an overall extra 0.75% baseline Crit if we assume HS comprises ~1.5% of overall output.

So as a result, with all 3 'negative' passives for Crit and the baseline 5% we have at 110, we actually, on average, have 8% baseline Crit.

Now for the positives of Crit - It is time to figure out Queen Ascendant (QA).

First, we will only be assessing 3/3 QA. Finding and spending 3 additional relics for QA is not reasonable for mythic raids. One level of QA is only worth about ~1.3-1.4%. Thus, if you get even just a 15 ilvl relic (i.e. one difficulty mode higher), it is better to give up the QA trait, REGARDLESS of what the new relic's effect is (even if it is like ghost in the mists or something equally useless). Finally, remember that QA can only affect HW/HS/CH and nothing else.

Here is what QA actually buffs and doesn’t buff:

1) Using QA in conjunction with HS ALWAYS results in a net 0 gain of HPS . This is true regardless of the amount of Haste you stack and it is simply because QA is not real Haste, does not lower the GCD, and so having a 1.2 second HS does not mean anything but being unable to cast for an additional 0.3 seconds

2) Using QA in conjunction with HW + Tidal Waves ALMOST ALWAYS results in a net 0 gain of HPS. With 3/3 Tidal Chains, we get 39% faster HW casts under Tidal Waves. This puts our HW cast time at just a bit above 1.5 seconds. Once QA procs, you get the same problem as above in that you cannot cast faster than the GCD.

3) Using QA alone (no Tidal Waves) with HW DOES result in an HPS gain. This should make sense. But remember that the only spells that can proc QA are Riptide, CH, HW, HS and UL. However, both Riptide/CH already proc Tidal Waves and so they cannot be used to proc QA alone. The only way to get a ‘solo’ QA proc is through HW spam or HS spam. To estimate these both, we have been using an average of casts and healing through various logs. In these logs, 1/4 of the total casts (in a long, typical fight) come from HW. The resultant QA proc can be used to benefit either a HW or CH which together make up ~30% combined output on a given fight. As for the HS contribution, it makes up 2% of overall casts on a given fight. Same assumptions as above.

4) Proc'ing QA with CH and using the subsequent QA on CH, DOES result in an HPS gain. This is the obviously a big draw towards QA. Remember, QA does not increase the HPS of HS and because you are using CH to proc QA (which spawns Tidal Waves), it will never increase the HPS of HW (see 2). The assumptions we are making here are that you have High Tide and Floodwaters. Let’s assume CH is about 1/8 of casts in a given fight (This is honestly excessive, but let’s put QA in the strongest light) and its output to be approximately 15%.

In the above 3) and 4), we made the assumption that EVERY single QA proc was used effectively meaning none were used on HS and none were used on a HW that also was under the effects of Tidal Waves. We also assumed you were able to USE every single QA proc (remember this is only a 5 second buff) (The buff to use QA only lasts 5 total seconds when it spawns. It can only be consumed by a CH, HW, or HS. Thus, if you spend those 5 seconds casting other spells like CBT, WS, HST (literally anything else), you may not have time to use the 5 second buff).

The point of doing all of this was to make QA appear in its strongest form. This isn't realistic and is probably over exaggerating the value of QA for me personally, but I did it this way nonetheless.

The end result of combining everything in 3+4 (and when you give QA a lot of assumptions and put it in it's basically strongest possible form) is that each point value of Crit is actually about 20% stronger. 

So putting it altogether: as it turns out, because we have a lot of passives that give us Crit, it is apparent that on average, we sit at about 8% baseline Crit when taking into account Empowered Droplets, Floodwaters, Tidal Waves. But, through QA alone, we valued Crit at 1.2x its actual value (only with a 3/3 relic). 3/3 means you simply have the artifact from acquiring it through your artifact weapon. You can farm up to 3 relics which can grant a specific artifact trait. If I farmed 3 QA relics, I would have 6 points within it. This would make QA actually give 30% haste as a result.

Crit is still weaker than Haste, and it isn't just a little bit. Haste like Crit also gets an additional stat weight of 1.2 (in my estimate) because of its double-dip effects on HR, Riptide(HoT), HST.Additionally, Haste scales at 325/1%, while Crit scales at 350/1%. There are no negatives to Haste - none of our talents or artifact traits negatively impact Haste (not Tidal Waves, not Wavecrash, not QA) because they don't modify Haste, they scale independently. On the other hand, we sit at 5% base Crit, and have a lot of additive bonuses to Crit which makes it less valuable to begin.

I actually would like to point at a possible misunderstanding when talking about the value of Crit: it is a good stat but we already have about 8% of it built-in from a passive and Artifact traits, which makes Crit the last to take into consideration when gearing.

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Hello! I am needing a little bit of help with this issue as well.  I just recently did  a mythic with a friend of mine, and he told me that my heals were low.  I didn't have trouble with going oom and no one died thankfully.  Any way  I was wondering if my mastery is too low.  Please can some one help me with this??file:///C:/Users/SuperS/Pictures/Lilmooren%20@%20Mug'thol%20-%20Community%20-%20World%20of%20Warcraft.xhtml

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Okay, I keep seeing this whole stat debate for resto shaman. For whatever it's worth I'm 7/7m EN and all my parses on our progression kills were >90%. First off mastery is king. That's not up for debate. Crit and haste beat it out when people are high health but it's not your job as a resto shaman to snipe out every heal when someone loses 100k health. Your next best stat IS crit but it's goofy. Like Panda said we get some for free and you really want enough that your aren't going oom on fights. When I say this I don't mean try to stack up to 40% crit and just spam. Resurgence kinda sucks anyway. For me I've found that I feel good sitting around 20%. Once you are comfortable with crit just go Mastery>haste>all. Depending on your relics you can get into some weird spots where your cast times are shorter than your GCD so just be aware of that and gem/enchant/equip gear accordingly. If you have any questions pm me or something and I'll try to help.

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Actually i´m sitting at ~28% Crit, ~21% Haste and ~93% Mastery and i´m feeling very comfortable with it (usin some items for enhancer, so i got that much haste). Actually i could help my group in M+ an EN to survive....so thats all the point ;)

Think round about 20% crit is pretty fine but be sure, that you are fine with your stats are satisfied with your performance.

Edited by Devkarin

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