Jump to content
FORUMS
Sign in to follow this  
Jeff

Resto and restless

Recommended Posts

First of all Hejgaard, thanks for your response and I think it's useful and informative. You make some good points. I think you're probably the most well geared Shaman to respond so far, and I'd like to point out that the average ilvl that this thread is aimed at is significantly below yours (somewhere in the 490-510 region). That doesn't invalidate what you've said, of course. You're welcome to disagree when you state your case so clearly.

As a starter - the good old shaman mastery rule still works: The harder the content, the more mastery you need. "Hard" means consistent, large amount of healing. If you are progressing on Horridon normal, you don't need huge amounts of mastery! Why? Because the dmg the raid receives is fairly low spike dmg. Esp. when playing with a priest, your raidmembers will stay at low health for a very short time, which greatly d evaluates your mastery. I would go a more crit heavy build if you are doing ToT normal.

This largely mirrors my experience in ToT Normal 10's. One thing I'd say for Crit over Mastery is that Crit gives you extra free healing spread out over the raid, which is vital in 10's, and especially when undergeared. The problem I have with Mastery is that all my gear has Mastery (because that's all I've been able to get hold of) so I just have too much for Normal 10's (sitting at 54% fully reforged out of Mastery!).

And here we come back to haste again. The point about haste being mana negative is true on a fight like Jink'rock or Iron Qon perhaps, where you have consistent AoE dmg over a long period of time. However, let's face it - very few encounters in ToT are designed like that. Instead, most of the dmg your raid will receive is spiky dmg. This is where haste becomes very handy! You want those spikes healed up as quickly as possible!!

Well I think we have different views on casting then. I follow the cardinal rule that I've had since T12 which is "Always Be Casting". IF you're following that rule then no matter what the fight's like, you're burning mana faster with more Haste. You could certainly make a case for delaying casting until it's "needed", but I don't feel like that's appropriate for the healing environment I'm in.

I like that you mentioned spread-out spike damage, because that's actually driving me to consider Haste more now. I've reached the ~510 point of having enough Spirit to sustain a good rotation almost indefinitely, but I'm increasingly finding that I've nothing to offer for situations in spread raid healing (see: Tortos, Primordius, Animus, Qon P1, Twins). Now I'm feeling mana-comfortable I've been considering experimenting with Haste for these situations. Not sure though what approach I should take.

Healing Stream Totem etc.

Sadly, Totem breakpoints currently don't function as they seem to be intended to. The precise cause is unknown (server latency is the most likely cause) but you are "just as likely to lose a tick at the HST breakpoint as you are to gain one" (direct quote from, I think, Binkenstein). I don't think anybody's bothered to find out whether there is any mean gain from totem healing as your Haste climbs on Live.

We did an experiment in my guild tonight, trying to see how high of an HPS I could reach. This was with 30% haste (5% from boomkin) and I ended at 190k HPS on Magaera normal.

That's awesome and I congratulate you on that, but I think that this example isn't helpful to players looking to improve themselves. They will be looking to find a setup which works well in progress and your example is clearly a farm kill. And apparently a severely over-geared one at that! ^__^ Less well geared players should remember that your ilvl is so high that your regen will naturally be extremely high compared to theirs. I wouldn't expect (for instance) an ilvl 495 player to be able to sustain HPS by stacking Haste. From experience on Megaera, it's difficult enough to not run OOM at that ilvl with a Crit/Mastery build!

Finally, thanks again for your interesting post. I'm certainly not trying to say that a Haste build isn't good at all. I'm just thinking in terms of low-ilvl players who probably won't be able to get the best out of it. Even at high ilvls, I still have my reservations about it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is great! Let's keep the posts coming, from as many people as possible Posted Image

This largely mirrors my experience in ToT Normal 10's. One thing I'd say for Crit over Mastery is that Crit gives you extra free healing spread out over the raid, which is vital in 10's, and especially when undergeared.

Just to make it perfectly clear to everyone reading this. What Stoove is correctly talking about here is the passive shaman spell spell_shaman_ancestralawakening.jpgAncestral Awakening. It is true that the more crit you have, the more this spell will trigger. When that's said, I see two "problems" with spell_shaman_ancestralawakening.jpgAncestral Awakening: First of all we have the shaman T15 4-set bonus, trade_engineering.jpgItem - Shaman T15 Restoration 4P Bonus. I agree on the fact that it makes most sense to talk about a good mix of LFR and a bit of normal gear, however since you can get Tier items in LFR, it is possible for everyone to get both the 2 and 4-set bonus regardless of ToT progress. Secondly, spell_shaman_ancestralawakening.jpgAncestral Awakening doesn't really heal that much... Again, this is only based on my logs, but it is based an a lot of logs, from different encounters! There is no doubt it is most valuable on spread-out fights. On Ji-Kun, perhaps the least healing-intensive boss in ToT, spell_shaman_ancestralawakening.jpgAncestral Awakening did 4,5 % of my healing. On Megaera, it did 1,9 (both with 4-set bonus).

My point here is just to say that spell_shaman_ancestralawakening.jpgAncestral Awakening is a great extra benefit you get from having a lot of crit, but you should not go full crit and expect the majority of your healing coming from this spell.

When that's said, I still think crit is very powerful, especially with lower itemlevels and on the earlier encounters. If I was back to 500/510 ilvl, I would (and I did back then) go heavy crit.

Well I think we have different views on casting then. I follow the cardinal rule that I've had since T12 which is "Always Be Casting". IF you're following that rule then no matter what the fight's like, you're burning mana faster with more Haste. You could certainly make a case for delaying casting until it's "needed", but I don't feel like that's appropriate for the healing environment I'm in.

Now this is very interesting! Healing in MoP has changed quite a bit for us resto shamans from what I have experienced. Back in ICC where you stacked full Haste, you would spam Chain Heal 24/7 and that was pretty much it. In T12 as you mention too, most of your healing came from "direct heals". In ToT I find myself doing rather few direct heals (spell_nature_healingwavelesser.jpgGreater Healing Wave, spell_nature_magicimmunity.jpgHealing Wave, spell_nature_healingwavegreater.jpgChain Heal, spell_nature_healingway.jpgHealing Surge). Instead I make sure to keep inv_spear_04.jpgHealing Stream Totem on CD (The inv_spear_04.jpgGlyph of Healing Stream Totem glyph is in my opinion the only mandatory glyph, especially with 2-set bonus!). inv_spear_04.jpgHealing Stream Totem often does 20+ % of my healing done (on both normal and heroic encounters). Having raided a lot in Dragon Soul, spell_nature_giftofthewaterspirit.jpgHealing Rain has a big place in my hearth and whenever it can hit more than 3-4+ people, I keep it on CD (remember it caps out at 6 ppl now!). People are often very spread in ToT, so if you struggle to hit the ranged, try and cast it so it hits both the tank and the melee dps!

Keep in mind that Healing Rain is a great way to apply spell_frost_wizardmark.jpgPurification!

I keep spell_nature_riptide.jpgRiptide on CD as well. This should be running on both tanks at all time!! Not only does it heal a lot, it also gives you the VITAL spell_shaman_tidalwaves.jpgTidal Wavesx2! It was only until I started doing PvP I realized how strong spell_shaman_tidalwaves.jpgTidal Waves is. Looking at my logs, I do close to no spell_nature_healingwavelesser.jpgGreater Healing Wave. Instead, I use spell_shaman_tidalwaves.jpgTidal Waves with spell_nature_healingway.jpgHealing Surge. This gives you a VERY quick guaranteed crit that heals for a ton. Please note that spell_nature_healingway.jpgHealing Surge is very mana intensive, and should ONLY be sued when you have spell_shaman_tidalwaves.jpgTidal Waves. Okay, ofc there are a few situations where spamming Healing Surge is necessary, but keep in mind that doing so will hurt your mana A LOT!

All in all I spend less time casting heals now than I did in previous expansions.

Here are some of my logs from last nights raid:

http://www.worldoflo.../?s=3682&e=4104

http://www.worldoflo.../?s=5655&e=5918

http://www.worldoflo.../?s=1113&e=1416 (Don't look too much into this one. I am solo-healing this fight, way over-geared. But it gives you an idea of how I deal with heavy AoE fights!)

Logs are great! Not so much for measuring HPS, but rather to see what spells you are using and how much output you get from each spell. So use them to see how my healing style is, maybe I use a spell more or less than you?? I am IN NO WAY trying to tell you that these logs are the correct way to play shaman!!! This is ONLY to show how I play! I am without doubt doing a lot of things wrong! Maybe some of you can help me identify what? This could be an interesting discussion Posted Image

Edited by Hejgaard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When that's said, I see two "problems" with spell_shaman_ancestralawakening.jpgAncestral Awakening: First of all we have the shaman T15 4-set bonus, trade_engineering.jpgItem - Shaman T15 Restoration 4P Bonus.

Sadly I've been farming LFR for months and I've had total of three drops, none of which were tier pieces. I got the 2-set on our Qon 10N kill on Sunday night! xD I think that in general it's better to discuss healing mechanics without the set bonuses unless the person specifically has one.

However, you mention later about the HST glyph and the 2-pc bonus. I completely agree there, HST does a huge amount of healing and the 2pc only makes it better!

My point here is just to say that spell_shaman_ancestralawakening.jpgAncestral Awakening is a great extra benefit you get from having a lot of crit, but you should not go full crit and expect the majority of your healing coming from this spell.

This is interesting! In the original theorycraft on Crit vs. Mastery done by Vixsin, it was found that the more healing you do by direct heals, the better Crit is for your overall healing. The main feature of the analysis was the demonstration that there is a region at about ~50% hp for single target and at ~65% hp for AoE spells where below that Mastery is better and above Crit is better. The entire analysis was done ignoring Haste because it's definitely the best stat for raw throughput, but in the context of progress it was thought to be not worth the mana losses.

Having raided a lot in Dragon Soul, spell_nature_giftofthewaterspirit.jpgHealing Rain has a big place in my hearth and whenever it can hit more than 3-4+ people, I keep it on CD (remember it caps out at 6 ppl now!). People are often very spread in ToT, so if you struggle to hit the ranged, try and cast it so it hits both the tank and the melee dps!

The problem I've had until recently is that my regen hasn't been enough to keep HR up indefinitely. I think that this is indicative of low gear-level. While it's awesome when you can afford it, I'd not recommend low ilvl players to try to keep it up 100%. Another problem I find is getting it onto enough people. Really I'd think you want 4+ people in it, and that's a problem on a LOT of fights (Ji-kun, Tortos, Megaera outside Rampage, Council, Horridon, Durumu's Beam phase, Animus before full activation, Qon on P2+3, Twins basically all the time). This is the kind of thing that I think I need to improve on anyway, and I'm sure it'll be helpful to other people, so what I might say is; we should start a new topic discussing the ways to optimize HR targets on each fight in 10-man.

Looking at my logs, I do close to no spell_nature_healingwavelesser.jpgGreater Healing Wave. Instead, I use spell_shaman_tidalwaves.jpgTidal Waves with spell_nature_healingway.jpgHealing Surge. This gives you a VERY quick guaranteed crit that heals for a ton. Please note that spell_nature_healingway.jpgHealing Surge is very mana intensive, and should ONLY be sued when you have spell_shaman_tidalwaves.jpgTidal Waves. Okay, ofc there are a few situations where spamming Healing Surge is necessary, but keep in mind that doing so will hurt your mana A LOT!

IF you can avoid overhealing, GHW is absolutely supreme to HS when you have Tidal Waves up. Not only is the average HPS more (I've done the calculations myself) but the efficiency is still greater (Resurgence procs included). You will definitely see that casting GHW will result in more healing than HS if neither of them overheal. The only major benefit to HS is the speed of the cast; in this case, consider that when you are stacking Haste the difference between a GHW with Tidal Waves and a HS is very small. All in all, I think that HS is a bit of a dud (you are free to disagree). That said, low ilvl players probably don't have the regen to sustain a rotation of either of them!

For low ilvl, I found that I was casting a LOT of Healing Wave and glyphed Chain Heal. The reason is that if CH hits 3+ targets, it's pretty much the most efficient targeted heal in your toolbox. I also used to (when I had v. low ilvl) glyph for Healing Wave which was very useful for fights like Council.

Finally, I'd like to say that the things I haven't responded to I completely agree with. I'm in a bit of a rush so anything I'm not specifically picking holes in you can regard as "OK by me" ^__^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the debate with mastery vs crit is one that many have different ideas. 10 man mastery is good and 25 crit is better. With that said, your gear ilvl will dictate alot of the stat inflations.... i have a 534 ilvl shaman and we are progressing into TOT (9/12) and I heal with a disc priest and our 3rd healer when needed is a pally. I keep my spirit at or slightly above 12k, my mastery is at a whopping 70% (that is because of the progression and learning of fights we tend to be lower on HP) Now on the first 8 bosses that we would say are on farm status, mastery as mentioned above is not king for those fights but not reforgning all the time. My crit is over 21% and my haste is 25.65% thus 2nd soft cap)...... with these numbers i am comfortable with the way the shaman is healing.

Everything people are mentioning in the above posts are accurate. This is one of the many things i like about shaman healing.... your stat priortiy changes all the time...

when SoO comes out Mastery will be huge once again..... when my guild finally has tot on farm i will drop mastery down for more crit....

Play the shaman healer the way you like to play. A crit or mastery build is fine honestly...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fun to see different playstyles and experiences from people. Personally I'm a mix of a theorycrafter and trial-and-error guy.

For my parts, I have to agree mostly with Hejgaard and his haste ideas. I was few heroic bossed into ToT, before we went on holiday. sitting around 530 ilvl resto.

I've been playing resto since tier 7, but this tier I've been playing mostly enhance since we have Disc priest + Holy pala setup. So I know that feeling people have talking about absorbs and our mastery.

I tried few builds in ToT. First going all out on mastery when we started, then seeing that we were never dipping that low, then all out on crit and finally focusing more on haste. Remember that our 4 piece actually devalues crit a little since we don't need it for AA as much.

What worked best for me was to keep mastery around 50% and then going full out haste. I'm currently at the 25% haste mark so I get extra ticks from HST, HTT and 2 extra from riptide.I'm sitting at 14k spirit and 50% mastery.

These stats gave me by far the most healing output and I didn't get oom that fast. Manly because HST and riptide was doing a big job for me. I would constantly heal like you Stoove, using RT+HW and then just spam like a madman when damage was incoming, after each dmg phase I would pop MT and then ease out using RT+HW+HST with occasional CH.

There's no big theorycrafting there, just what worked best for me and my playstyle healing with DPriest+HPala.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By fryguy
      ### Totemly Awesome!
      # Class: Shaman
      # Format: Wild
      #
      # 2x (0) Totemic Surge
      # 1x (2) Cagematch Custodian
      # 2x (2) Devolve
      # 2x (2) EVIL Totem
      # 2x (2) Flametongue Totem
      # 2x (2) Serpent Ward
      # 2x (2) Totem Golem
      # 1x (2) Trick Totem
      # 1x (2) Vitality Totem
      # 1x (3) Grand Totem Eys'or
      # 1x (3) Instructor Fireheart
      # 2x (3) Mana Tide Totem
      # 2x (3) Totemic Reflection
      # 2x (4) Draenei Totemcarver
      # 2x (4) Splitting Axe
      # 2x (5) Totem Goliath
      # 2x (6) Thing from Below
      # 1x (9) Alexstrasza the Life-Binder

      AAEBAZyrBAbXD5zOA7fSA6reA9/hA7CKBAzwB7IU+6oC9r0CiIUDnaMD2qUD+aUDlrkDptED/58E5KAEAA==

      # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
       
    • By positiv2
      This thread is for comments about our Restoration Shaman Shadowlands Leveling Guide.
    • By positiv2
      This thread is for comments about our Enhancement Shaman Shadowlands Leveling Guide.
    • By positiv2
      This thread is for comments about our Elemental Shaman Shadowlands Leveling Guide.
    • By positiv2
      This thread is for comments about our Aggro Shaman deck.
×
×
  • Create New...