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BoS, 7.1.5 and Nighthold (Tier 19)

17 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I will NOT be using BoS in 7.1.5...  why?

http://www.wowhead.com/item=132459/perseverance-of-the-ebon-martyr

Build:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/death-knight/frost/cj7z

Basically with the combination of Gathering Storm (extended RW) and fitting more Rime into that time period I'm hoping that my M+ hybrid spec will remain competitive and the sims thus far seem to support the theory.

If you have the helm too, grats! and look forward to the major increase in it's power with Freezing Fog +30% and Tier 19 based around more Rime and more RP from Rime we should see many viable builds popping up on logs. **Stay with FP for now until you have T19 x 2 - see updated build link ^^

Why not BoS and Hungering? ... well, I'm looking for big Rime crits and don't fancy the long CD to manage. I also want to remain powerful in M+ which should be the case with this build... I'm pretty sure I can become more useful with Winter is Coming + extended RW... stunning mobs for the whole of PoF uptime.

Obliteration will be used to maximise rune spam for Gathering Storm.

Lets hear your thoughts?

Edited by Browed
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I got me some legendary and T19 on ptr and tested it, you get some really high crits with Howling Blast. Even the noncrits are much higher than critical OB/FS while Gathering Storm is active. And with T19 you have alot of rimeproccs and i got more runic power than i can spend.

Got a very high ping on ptr but even then my dps is higher as it is on live.  Too bad i didnt gtt the helmet or the bracer on live, this is definitely something to looking forward to.

Edited by Nique

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In addition and to address those that point out that Frozen Pulse is still simming higher:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/death-knight/frost/cj7z

This build comes in a few % higher than the build mentioned in first post, however.. I believe the changes to ME and higher chance for free Runes from spending RP will mean FP is much harder to get uptime, even more so on movement/downtime fights.

Also, you may be pooling runes at times to give better burst with RW/Rime, depending on the situation.

Certainly anyone that decides to try Kolitra's belt with this build will also find it much harder to keep FP up.

Edited by Browed

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Been testing various builds, I've found I both sim more and 5 min rounds from dummy testing that I get more DPS from Avalanche than ice caps, (about 2k diff whoopie :P) and still get more DPS from  Runic Attenuation if im running Icy talons. as the small RP gains adds up was resulting in more FS which was netting me a 5-10K dps gains over Gathering storm.

this is at 872 with no legendaries

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Are you guys sure that the talent build in the opening post is actually better then the one from the Frost DK guide (updated yesterday) here on Icy Veins - provided that one has the legendary Ebon Martyr helmet?

I mean, I actually HAVE the helmet, so I'm wondering which talents to pick before I'm off for tonight's raid...

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I have been theorising based on both gear options available to me and with practical usage in mind too.

It's a build aimed at M+ with raid viability, however, I've not reached a conclusion on BoS.

The shorter the fight the better it is (anything under 2 minutes) because you then reach the point in time well before it's cooldown is up (therefore you remain in it's 'burst' phase).

The higher uptime and ability to synergize Remorseless Winter with PoF and using Obliteration to give the extension to RW I find is more stable long term. Apart from the pull I have found BoS not lining up with anything for some time and requiring downtime for rune regen before you can use it optimally.

The top logs since patch release tend to support this, the very best numbers are coming from sub-3 minute fights when using BoS. Especially when it can be lined up with Lust/Warp.. I've seen logs of people keeping it up for nearly 1 minute. Top % damage ability in only 2 casts.

Edited by Browed

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So I've tested this build last night - and YES, I can clearly recommend it, it works VERY well with the legendary helmet! Thanks a lot for developing it, I'm now back on DPS ranks #1-2 of my guild :))

One question though - using this build, how does "Remorseless Winter" go together with "Obliteration" in the best way? I mean, if RW is up (meaning that my Howling Blasts get a huge push due to the legendary helmet and "Freezing Fog"), can I (or should I) use "Obliteration" (which pushes Frost Strike/Obliterate by Killing Machine, but not Howling Blast) at the same time, or would this be a waste of DPS?

In other words - does it make sense to have RW and Obliteration up at the same time or should they be used separately from each other? I'm unsure about this, what do you say?

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I have only done limited testing thus far, but I've found it preferable to use Obliteration at the start of RW to give you low cost (1 rune) Obliterates rather than for the secondary benefit of guaranteed KM procs.

Essentially, its a trade off to manufacture as many buffed HB hits via Rime as possible during the RW window.

I was regularly hitting 1.5mil crits with this but if you have low numbers of crits it can hurt your overall figures.

I spam Obliterates and use Rimes as top priority, but I think provided you are fast enough, weaving in the FS for KM is still a sensible move if you are less concerned about short burst dps.

Definitely use FS if you began with less than full runes as the OB spam will quickly starve you of runes.

It certainly makes more efficient use of Obliteration if you do FS too and requires ME (Murderous Efficiency) more than ever, you just lose a little bit of time on those Rime + RW hits ;)

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I've also gotten lucky with the helm. Should we be stacking freezing fog with the build or is frozen pulse too strong? I'd also think we'd be moving away from vers and trying to stack mastery/crit after the 20% haste. 

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Because I have the bracers and high mastery I have seen the two come out pretty close and I must admit it does feel more 'easymode' in gameplay not to have to monitor rune usage so closely, although arguably FP is the sort of talent you use on autopilot.. if you have a solid muscle memory rotation it will be up as a matter of course.

If you don't have a secondary legendary that compliments the build, I'd certainly test with FP in preference.

I do also have the belt in my bag, but I haven't tested beyond 1 evening and a couple of M+.

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16 minutes ago, Browed said:

Essentially, its a trade off to manufacture as many buffed HB hits via Rime as possible during the RW window.

...understood, that's what I feel too, but this is obviously only valid for ST fights, right? If I have to quickly switch over to multiple targets, I better use HB (buffed by the RW/Legendary bonus) instead of sticking to Obliterate, correct?

As for the stats, I currently have 30% on crit, 26% on mastery and only 16% on haste. It's the result of the gear askmrrobot.com picked for me using default stat weights setting and it feels quite ok at the moment with really few downtimes and good solid dps.

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I'm also curious if in this build a blast radius relic would be better than an ambi one. Anyone have an idea?

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On 1/12/2017 at 7:31 PM, Nerphus said:

I'm also curious if in this build a blast radius relic would be better than an ambi one. Anyone have an idea?

I'd stay on Ambidexterity as your FS + OB will still be about 40% of damage done compared to HB doing 15 - 20% with this build.

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So with the legendary helmet (and kolitra belt), I should go

Murderous Efficiency

Frozen Pulse

Icecap

Gathering Storm

Obliteration 

Is that correct? And with at least 2 pieces of teir 19 I should switch Frozen Pulse to Freezing Fog?

Also, I recognize someone asked this already, but since a bit more time has passed for testing, is this actually better than the current OBRA build for raiding?

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It will depend largely on your execution, I think most builds are functional as well as competitive but the fight mechanics and your own playstyle will dictate which serves best in each situation... eg; in most cases I will be using the spec in first post, however a BoS build would be far better for Patchwerkesque fights like Nyth, Ursoc etc and the faster they go down the better the BoS build will look but in terms of sustained dps the builds all come out fairly even. I think this bears out in the log I posted above.

Looking at Nighthold, the trend has gone more add/movement focused compared to EN so a BoS build may well come out lower depending on tactics used by your raid.

Certainly if you have the belt you will be able to keep BoS uptime better than most but not close to those with the ring, I have the belt myself (stays in bag) however it hasn't performed well for me in testing but I may revise this after I get some more time which has been limited since 7.1.5.

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7 hours ago, Andell said:

So with the legendary helmet (and kolitra belt), I should go ....

Is that correct? And with at least 2 pieces of teir 19 I should switch Frozen Pulse to Freezing Fog?

Also, I recognize someone asked this already, but since a bit more time has passed for testing, is this actually better than the current OBRA build for raiding?

I didn't really answer your question.. basically yes, but you may want to compare it to OBRA/GA on some dummy runs as the belt lends itself to those builds too.

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This thread deserves revisiting:

The BoS build has certainly taken over, I'm still testing the Obliteration + GS build but now with belt +helm.

It seems to be performing fine with the heavy movement+adds fights in Nighthold despite my predictions earlier in the thread.

The blast radius relics have taken over due to the massive HB percentage with increased Rime (T19 x 2).

Stupid really as we now have to farm Ilnygoth or Guldan to get them :S which is a very limited source for these relics.

And Freezing Fog (FFo) has definitely overtaken FP for the same reason (HB damage).

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