KratosSM

Kil'Jaeden Trinket Vs Bracers Call of The wild Vs feet Qa'pla

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Hello , 

Im a BM raiding  Hunter that want to know some numbers and advices regarding the use of  which legendaries i should do after 7.1.5 . 

 

The dilemma is between those : 

- Kil'jaeden's trinket 940 that will replace Chrono Shards 860

- Bracers Call of the Wild 940 that ofc will easily be replaced with nice 900+ Item 

- Feet Qa'Pla 940 that are already replacable with 900+ item .

I both do High level Mythic+ and Mythic progression raiding .

What i should equip in ur opinion ?

 

 If  u wanna check my gear name is Krætøs from Silvermoon EU . 

 

Ty in anticipation for ur support . Please avoid comment not supported by experience or numbers or better both ;) 

(sorry in anticipation for my english)

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Go with the trinket and the bracers. Qa'Pla is slightly poorer for AoE and there are very very few single target fights in NH. The trinket has a very powerful AoE on use which has a reasonably short cooldown which makes it fantastic for fights like Spellblade where you need a little more oomph on the adds. In order to run with bracers though I can imagine that the Convergence of Fates would sim a lot higher than any Bloodthirsty Instinct, so my advice would be to go for that as your next trinket as well.

Also, I think you should pay a little more attention to the BM guide. Your stats seem very... askew. I can see that you've clearly gone for ilvl & higher agi, which is fine, but you have a neck that has no mastery. I can't really imagine what you would've replaced for that. You'd do better trying to optimise your gear a little bit; I looked at your most recent logs and you haven't a single parse above blue. 

Also just noticed you use stampede, there are no fights where stampede is better than Killer Cobra in NH; swapping that out will make a huge difference in your sustained dps. Stampede might burst well but on shorter fights or fights without massive cleave every 3 minutes it's useless.

Edited by Luthixx
Noticed an incorrect talent

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On 16/2/2017 at 1:44 AM, Luthixx said:

Go with the trinket and the bracers. Qa'Pla is slightly poorer for AoE and there are very very few single target fights in NH. The trinket has a very powerful AoE on use which has a reasonably short cooldown which makes it fantastic for fights like Spellblade where you need a little more oomph on the adds. In order to run with bracers though I can imagine that the Convergence of Fates would sim a lot higher than any Bloodthirsty Instinct, so my advice would be to go for that as your next trinket as well.

Also, I think you should pay a little more attention to the BM guide. Your stats seem very... askew. I can see that you've clearly gone for ilvl & higher agi, which is fine, but you have a neck that has no mastery. I can't really imagine what you would've replaced for that. You'd do better trying to optimise your gear a little bit; I looked at your most recent logs and you haven't a single parse above blue. 

Also just noticed you use stampede, there are no fights where stampede is better than Killer Cobra in NH; swapping that out will make a huge difference in your sustained dps. Stampede might burst well but on shorter fights or fights without massive cleave every 3 minutes it's useless.

 

Really ty for ur analysis and explanation , are really helpful tbh . 

 

Regardin gear and logs ive been boosted hard in last week raid and ive earned 10 loots nearly XD i was way undergeared and just went back to  a semi hardcore raiding . 

Actually to sort out gear im using Pawn with Azotharian string modified , and , idd as  u gueesed my previous gear was really crap !

 

Regarding stampede was using that cause of Qapla that qould have collided with killer cobra . But i do agree about changing feet instead of bracers and go for that talent !

 

Really really ty for this analisys again ! And ofc im going to look for that trinket , even if best cobination will come out when ill drop my legendary shoulders . 

 

As a note , i was 1st hunter in the world for some weeks on Zon'ozz back in the days of some hardcore raiding , so thats why i appreciate some advices coming back in business =P

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All good mate, reply back with any other questions you have, will be more than happy to answer.

Even with Qa'pla, Stampede isn't worth using as you don't get enough Dire Beast procs to justify losing out on the huge burst you get on a regular basis with killer cobra. The only time it could be useful to change to Stampede with Qa'pla would be if you also had legendary shoulders and there were a significant amount of adds that you needed to really burst down with stampede that it might actually be a benefit.

 

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I would suggest that you go with bracers for aoe fight's and qa'pla for singletarget fight's since it is really powerful  if used right. with slightly more haste than you have atm it is the second best legy for singletarget dps 

regarding your gear you should definitly consider farming ursoc mythic since the trinket is by far the best in the game for bm and your haste is extremely low for your ilvl. 

Also switch from stampede to kc since it is way better

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On 19/2/2017 at 9:06 AM, Luthixx said:

All good mate, reply back with any other questions you have, will be more than happy to answer.

Even with Qa'pla, Stampede isn't worth using as you don't get enough Dire Beast procs to justify losing out on the huge burst you get on a regular basis with killer cobra. The only time it could be useful to change to Stampede with Qa'pla would be if you also had legendary shoulders and there were a significant amount of adds that you needed to really burst down with stampede that it might actually be a benefit.

 

Mmm , its probably because ive played a lot with stampede and so im really able to time it with stuffs needed even in mythic raid , but yesterday night i tried to rotate legendaries and taletns as  u said , and in the end i was having 530k output with KC and nearly 600k with Stampede . Probably because i have to get used to the CS resetting Kill Command CD i guess ? Are usure about numbers of what u said ? Just to be sure =P

2 hours ago, Najjic said:

I would suggest that you go with bracers for aoe fight's and qa'pla for singletarget fight's since it is really powerful  if used right. with slightly more haste than you have atm it is the second best legy for singletarget dps 

regarding your gear you should definitly consider farming ursoc mythic since the trinket is by far the best in the game for bm and your haste is extremely low for your ilvl. 

Also switch from stampede to kc since it is way better

Yeah , ill ask guildies to do some runs for it =) Ty for suggestion .

 

In the end im trying whatever is better for dps in mythic , and again in  a fight like Skorpyron mythic , whau  would suggest its  the better build number based ? 

Regarding gear , i was like 875 IL 2 weeks ago , thats why im using not proper gear atm =(

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On 19/2/2017 at 9:06 AM, Luthixx said:

All good mate, reply back with any other questions you have, will be more than happy to answer.

Even with Qa'pla, Stampede isn't worth using as you don't get enough Dire Beast procs to justify losing out on the huge burst you get on a regular basis with killer cobra. The only time it could be useful to change to Stampede with Qa'pla would be if you also had legendary shoulders and there were a significant amount of adds that you needed to really burst down with stampede that it might actually be a benefit.

 

I already processed last 2 days of raid fights on CheckMyWow nd seems not so bad , but ofc always looking for improvment ! =P

 

Would u check kills and stuffs ? i already noticed that prolly i bad macroed my titan's thunder , but all the rest sees ok , except that i probably should try to play with KC instead of Stampede . Lemme know ur impressions ! Ty in anticipation 

 

P.S.

Be soft and Consider it was my overall 2nd 3rd experience in NH on those tries , so im still learning fights and mechanic =P 

Edited by KratosSM
Adding useful things to know to value performances

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4 hours ago, KratosSM said:

except that i probably should try to play with KC instead of Stampede

see no one should respond to you besides saying..."go read this websites BM Hunter Guide". 

....why should any one go over your logs/reports if you did not take the time to read, comprehend, listen and follow this websites guide?

 

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16 hours ago, Banard said:

see no one should respond to you besides saying..."go read this websites BM Hunter Guide". 

....why should any one go over your logs/reports if you did not take the time to read, comprehend, listen and follow this websites guide?

 

You probably not even read what i wrote in alle the posts , here , else u would have avoided to write this useless and polemic piece m8 .

 

Ofc  i have read alle the guides where even Azothrian says that Stampede can be played depending on plastyle and fights , even in certain NH fights ( Skorpyron , Alluriel , Etc ) , so i ask you back , why u felt obliged to write such  a posts ? really cant understand tbh  . 

 

Probably nobody answering to my second lines of question cause i understand it will take a long time and cause its pretty difficult to answer to , but PLEASE  keep away with this polemic and ignorant posts . TYVM . 

 

P.s.

I gave a look to the replies u giving around to the forum and now i understand , u just go around making polemic everywhere and giving statement just based on your experience that probably not even understood this class properly .

As u read in first post , Luthixx , that viceversa answers rightly to my questions , replied that he is "happy to answer to further questons "  , same for Najjic . 

Try to bring ur experience in  a constructive way , and read eveything of a pots , instead of flooding and flaming around to have some score on ur forum points . Ty in anticipation .

Edited by KratosSM

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1 hour ago, KratosSM said:

 

Ofc  i have read alle the guides where even Azothrian says that Stampede can be played depending on plastyle and fights , even in certain NH fights ( Skorpyron , Alluriel , Etc ) , so i ask you back , why u felt obliged to write such  a posts ? really cant understand tbh  . 

 

Try to bring ur experience in  a constructive way , and read eveything of a pots , instead of flooding and flaming around to have some score on ur forum points . Ty in anticipation .

Here is a 2 second search of top parses of BM on some of the top servers, i'll use heroic...

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/server/206/latest/#class=Hunter&spec=BeastMastery&difficulty=4

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/server/150/latest/#class=Hunter&spec=BeastMastery&difficulty=4

now count the stampedes ....count them....

 

And you are correct in saying guide suggest you can use stampede, my bad for not listening to my own advise. 

Stampede Icon Stampede is the best choice for any situation where you expect to be able to use it on 2 immobile targets or more

guide is wrong....simple as that...see above links. 

 

People really need to stop raging when people disagree with them or point out where they went wrong. No wonder internet trolls are everywhere...they get a kick out of responses like yours. 

 

and no i am not trolling...there is a point to what i say ...i don't say what i say to get a "rise out of peeps". 

Edited by Banard
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29 minutes ago, Banard said:

Here is a 2 second search of top parses of BM on some of the top servers, i'll use heroic...

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/server/206/latest/#class=Hunter&spec=BeastMastery&difficulty=4

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/server/150/latest/#class=Hunter&spec=BeastMastery&difficulty=4

now count the stampedes ....count them....

 

And you are correct in saying guide suggest you can use stampede, my bad for not listening to my own advise. 

Stampede Icon Stampede is the best choice for any situation where you expect to be able to use it on 2 immobile targets or more

guide is wrong....simple as that...see above links. 

 

People really need to stop raging when people disagree with them or point out where they went wrong. No wonder internet trolls are everywhere...they get a kick out of responses like yours. 

 

and no i am not trolling...there is a point to what i say ...i don't say what i say to get a "rise out of peeps". 

Well this is a very nice answering post tbh ! thank you for this , and yeah there are kinda like 4/5% of overall hunter outta there using Stampede atm . 

 

Ill surely switch then , even if , as the Najjic said , im really low on haste atm , and thats whyusing KC doesnt affect my dps higher as expected , cause im pretty always focus starved cause of the KC phase . Ill just have to look for mastery gear and some haste for sure ,. more il go farm Ursoc Mythic with my guild . 

 

Again if  u have patience to give a look to what i wrote above , i would be grateful . 

 

Sorry again , but if u read what you wrote above , read from me , was only  a flame =P 

 

I was wrong luckily ^^

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3 minutes ago, KratosSM said:

, im really low on haste atm ,

 cause im pretty always focus starved cause of the KC phase 

 

(1) i been low on haste all xpac..it means nothing...our weights are very close, higher ilevel wins 99% of the time...as i said to eyeball (yup doing it on purpose now)  simplify things. Use cookie cutter build, pawn add on with the weights from this guide and when you start hitting purple and orange logs...then look to push yourself. Your playing BM...there is nothing complicated in BM. 

 

(2) you should be focus starved out of killer cobra phrase, the only thing you do is cast kill command on CD and CS at 90 + focus. The whole point is to build and save focus for your next killer cobra phrase. 

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23 hours ago, KratosSM said:

Mmm , its probably because ive played a lot with stampede and so im really able to time it with stuffs needed even in mythic raid , but yesterday night i tried to rotate legendaries and taletns as  u said , and in the end i was having 530k output with KC and nearly 600k with Stampede . Probably because i have to get used to the CS resetting Kill Command CD i guess ? Are usure about numbers of what u said ? Just to be sure =P

KC takes a little getting used to.  With BW, you're basically alternating CS with KC until out of focus.  AotW gives you a longer time to run out of focus when combined with BW.  You mix in DB when active or proc'd, and if you're in an AOE, you toss in a MS/KC or MS/CS/KC if KC is on cooldown to take advantage of beast cleave.    I think you just need to practice the rotation.

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7 minutes ago, Banard said:

(1) i been low on haste all xpac..it means nothing...our weights are very close, higher ilevel wins 99% of the time...as i said to eyeball (yup doing it on purpose now)  simplify things. Use cookie cutter build, pawn add on with the weights from this guide and when you start hitting purple and orange logs...then look to push yourself. Your playing BM...there is nothing complicated in BM. 

 

(2) you should be focus starved out of killer cobra phrase, the only thing you do is cast kill command on CD and CS at 90 + focus. The whole point is to build and save focus for your next killer cobra phrase. 

Yeah is probasbly as  u said , just practicing with the "new" rotation , im probably a bit rusty on semi-hardcore raiding since i took  a pause of about 3 years xD 

And yeah im using pawn string modified by Azotharian , cause the standard one doenst count diminishing returns and stuffs =)

 

Just now, Eyeroll said:

KC takes a little getting used to.  With BW, you're basically alternating CS with KC until out of focus.  AotW gives you a longer time to run out of focus when combined with BW.  You mix in DB when active or proc'd, and if you're in an AOE, you toss in a MS/KC or MS/CS/KC if KC is on cooldown to take advantage of beast cleave.    I think you just need to practice the rotation.

Ty for this explanation too , so , as i assumed before is only practicing with the new changed rotation during BW . Seems ok =)

 

But going again to the first question , ill probably go into Qa'Pla anyqay  , cause the nerf on bracers seems o have really nerfed their result atm . 

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1 hour ago, KratosSM said:

Ty for this explanation too , so , as i assumed before is only practicing with the new changed rotation during BW . Seems ok =)

But going again to the first question , ill probably go into Qa'Pla anyqay  , cause the nerf on bracers seems o have really nerfed their result atm . 

The wrists are the only BM legendary I have at the moment.   Having the aspects cd reduced by 30% allows AotW to pair up with BW more often.   So the choice is whether you want added focus from AotC more often, or another focus burner, which is what reducing the CD on KC will do.

I think either way, you're going to have to practice the rotation based on either the wrist or the boots.

Edited by Eyeroll

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1 hour ago, KratosSM said:

 

But going again to the first question , ill probably go into Qa'Pla anyqay  , cause the nerf on bracers seems o have really nerfed their result atm . 

I would use trinket and boots until you get better legendaires or trinkets to revisit the question. 


The bracers suck since the nerf,  in EN they were amazing made the spec very enjoyable because wild and titans line up perfectly. Now it is a mess with bracers.  In the end , depending on the length of the boss fight it is only 2-3 (sometimes only 1) extra wild. 

The biggest bonus of the bracers is extra turtles and cheetahs....i miss my 1 min cheetahs and 1.5 min turtles...bah! Since the nerf these are garbage, stat wise with some gear set ups i have scene the helm/pants sim higher. 

 

now back to me simming...seems with the legendary shoulders my 875 Unstable Arcanocrystal is better then my 890 mastery stat stick....now the graph on this site is making more sense.....but the lost of the AGI! BAH!

Edited by Banard
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2 hours ago, Banard said:

I would use trinket and boots until you get better legendaires or trinkets to revisit the question. 


The bracers suck since the nerf,  in EN they were amazing made the spec very enjoyable because wild and titans line up perfectly. Now it is a mess with bracers.  In the end , depending on the length of the boss fight it is only 2-3 (sometimes only 1) extra wild. 

The biggest bonus of the bracers is extra turtles and cheetahs....i miss my 1 min cheetahs and 1.5 min turtles...bah! Since the nerf these are garbage, stat wise with some gear set ups i have scene the helm/pants sim higher. 

 

now back to me simming...seems with the legendary shoulders my 875 Unstable Arcanocrystal is better then my 890 mastery stat stick....now the graph on this site is making more sense.....but the lost of the AGI! BAH!

yEAH IDD  , I HAD THE BRACERS BEFORE NERF TOO AND WAS PRETTY AWSOME EVEN IF I WAS CASUAL RAIDING IN THAT PERIOD I REALLY FELT DIFFERENCE WHEN I DROPPED CAUSE OF THE COMBINATION WITH OTHER cd . ( Sorry for caps , but dont want to write it again cause of caps lock , u'll know im not yelling xD ) 

The trinket is actually awsome , and ill have to practice a bit to synchroyze the qapla effect with KC phase , but will not be so hard tbh . Ill start again to make some sims  too probably ... =S

 

3 hours ago, Eyeroll said:

The wrists are the only BM legendary I have at the moment.   Having the aspects cd reduced by 30% allows AotW to pair up with BW more often.   So the choice is whether you want added focus from AotC more often, or another focus burner, which is what reducing the CD on KC will do.

I think either way, you're going to have to practice the rotation based on either the wrist or the boots.

You analyze very well anyway the siutation , ill probably go for the second choice for the moemnt and will se how it goes . Ty again !

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Hey I'd love to piggy back on this topic with my dilemma between Prydaz, Kiljaden, Qapala.

prydaz+kiljaden sims higher than qpala+kiljaden by about 10k dps, but the sims from mr robot are kinda short maybe, because i only get an extra 4-6 kill commands from qapala, which seems underpowered or inaccurate if its losing to prydaz. thoughts please?

i have 890 replacements for neck and boots with similar stats but an absolutely shit trinket so i didnt swap out kiljadens.

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On 22/2/2017 at 0:05 AM, Faadre said:

Hey I'd love to piggy back on this topic with my dilemma between Prydaz, Kiljaden, Qapala.

prydaz+kiljaden sims higher than qpala+kiljaden by about 10k dps, but the sims from mr robot are kinda short maybe, because i only get an extra 4-6 kill commands from qapala, which seems underpowered or inaccurate if its losing to prydaz. thoughts please?

i have 890 replacements for neck and boots with similar stats but an absolutely shit trinket so i didnt swap out kiljadens.

Actually i noticed that depends a lot if  u have for example relics that buff  KC , then i would go for Qa'pla on most fights , even sacrficing like 4/5 IL overall. Kil'Jaeden actually is one of our Bis anyway , so keep it for sure , in aoe cna be unbalanced too . 

 

 

I would love to thanks all hte people that has been partecipating to this discussion that i hope wll be useful for other Bm hunters . 

 

 

After shit load of testing on dummies , simcrafts and Most important , Mythic krosus fights , i ended up with this composition of talents and gear :

- Kiljaeden is actually  a must in every fight , single , and mostly ofc aoe . 

- Bracers are actually really useless =(

- Qa'Pla wins nearly always , cause of the bis stats on it moreover , and the effect stacks erfectly with KC being buffed , and by my relics 

- On Krosus with 899 Il , not having Bis trinkets or Legendary shoulders , im eding up doing 640/680 k Dps depending on procs and movement and adds spawning . Talents choice for that fight is ofc : Way of the Cobra , Blink strike ( i found more useful on mythic that the dire beast augmented proc even wearing Qapla , cause of the fast target switching u must have when adds spawning ) , AMoC , and Killer Cobra . 

 

I really cant wait to drop those shoulders , that actually seems boosting our dps a lot ( on single target seems like 50/100k ). 

i did some tries with Bracers and better IL ( 903 ) not sacrificing 4set ofc , keeping same talents and i ended up with 580/610k depending on procs and stuffs , but seems a shit load behind , 

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