Aleco

Whats (not) the Move? #5 - Improving at Hearthstone One Play at a Time

25 posts in this topic

HyfSlV6.jpg

In an episode of what could have just as easily been called "What's Not the Move?", I make a critical mistake which ends up costing me the game. Can you do what I couldn't and find the winning line?

In an episode of what could have just as easily been called "What's Not the Move?", I make a critical mistake which ends up costing me the game. Can you do what I couldn't and find the winning line?

If you're interested in learning more about the concept of "Playing to Outs", check out Part 2 of Legend in the Making here on Icy Veins.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really really like that episode :). It requires balls (or a vagina, just to be fair ^^) to show your own mistakes.

It shows us a very important lesson even though your health was not at a critical point it was not that high either but I think a lot of players would have played like you did.

The alternative to survive was pretty obvious then but still great vid :) Keep it up.

P.S. Something I wanted to mention on earlier vids and now that I know others felt the same, maybe you should talk a bit slower. Maybe you are just used to talk in that speed or you want to make the vid as short as possible, no idea. I am ok with it but I assume a lot of ppl who don't have english as their native language would appreciate it a bit slower :) ... no offense.

Edited by Caldyrvan
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Caldyrvan said:

P.S. Something I wanted to mention on earlier vids and now that I know others felt the same, maybe you should talk a bit slower. Maybe you are just used to talk in that speed or you want to make the vid as short as possible, no idea. I am ok with it but I assume a lot of ppl who don't have english as their native language would appreciate it a bit slower :) ... no offense.

Thanks for the constructive feedback :) I think I might be trying to talk a bit too fast because I'm trying to keep the length of the videos as short as possible, but it's probably a bit more important to be easily understood than it is to be concise. Thanks!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds reasonable. And I doubt you will create monster long videos for talking a bit slower :D maybe a minute or two more at max. English is already a good language to make things short. Be happy not to talk in german :D

Edited by Caldyrvan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly i would have gone for the exact play you made without giving it a second thought, but this really showed me the mindset you got to have sometimes. very nice episode! Keep it up!

I think the talking speed is absolutely fine, english is not me first language but i have absolutlely no problem understanding you. I think the most important part is not the speed, but a clear articulation (which you have).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no problem either and the articulation is absolutely perfect, pleasant voice btw, but I have a few friends who are trying but are not the best at english. People from everywhere on the world are visiting Icy veins and that means there must be more ppl who would appreciate it a bit slower, I am sure :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Caldyrvan said:

I have no problem either and the articulation is absolutely perfect, pleasant voice btw, but I have a few friends who are trying but are not the best at english. People from everywhere on the world are visiting Icy veins and that means there must be more ppl who would appreciate it a bit slower, I am sure :)

I created subtitles for the video, so if it is hard to understand what Aleco is saying, you can turn them on. If you have any feedback regarding the subtitles, I would really appreciate it as I had never made any before.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wasn't concentrating properly and went for Priest + Spirit + Shadowstep + Heal, then went you played the Drak I was like, damn, got it wrong. 

Didn't realise I was right before rewatching :p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I created an account on the forum just right now to make this comment :D New episode really cool, thank you for that Aleco^^ I agree with Caldyrvan about speed talks because I'm the one who not too good in english so i use "pause" for video all the time. But i really like this vids anyway. I think in general speed talks that is not too big problem for me(yea, i can live with that hehe :D ) but i really appreciate that positiv2 made subtitles for vid. Looks good and totaly better then autosubtitles from YT, so thank you a lot too. :)

5 hours ago, positiv2 said:

I created subtitles for the video, so if it is hard to understand what Aleco is saying, you can turn them on. If you have any feedback regarding the subtitles, I would really appreciate it as I had never made any before.

 

Edited by Lightout
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice vid. Another instructive one, not 100% sure I'd have made the same play without your discussion before the pause but I got this one. My initial instinct was to go for the most fun play of lyra + divine spirit + shadowstep + (see what we get from lyra). It has an outside chance of finding lethal hehe but it became apparent that the only way we can lose was to Leeroy shadowstep shenanigans so I went priest + divine spirit + netherspite + shadowstep +free netherspite + heal self. Slightly different to your solution but same result.

Edited by Bozonik
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 27.10.2017 at 8:54 AM, Breadd said:

I think the talking speed is absolutely fine, english is not me first language but i have absolutlely no problem understanding you. I think the most important part is not the speed, but a clear articulation (which you have).

Same here. I am not a native speaker too (and I am WAY more comfortable reading english or writing it then to hear / speak it), and I think you do it really great.

 

To the vid: Great vid again, but one question about it:

Was it the wrong move you made? Ex post: Yes.

But Ex Ante?

You did now know which cards he had - and if the game would have continued one or two rounds longer, would there have been any possibilities that he would have won the game with another card combination and one or two more turns to pull it off?

 

Or with other words: If you make sure a certain combination he has in his hand in this turn can't kill you - do you leave yourself open for another combination in two more turns? (Him being able to clear the board, get control back, things like that. E.g. he uses vanish and plays a 4-cost-minion, later plays a second vanish, all the time doing some points of damage to you - and using the leeroy combo later on.)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

great video!

I saw that Leeroy combo coming right away.

I would make the best play a little different -

Trade first both minions > play priest of the fist > shadow step on operative first and then replay it to leave 2 mana free in case it can find something better than divine spirit to play > then assuming you didnt find anything better than divine spirit, play that on priest of the fist to have 12 Hp on a minion that can get me out of range of combo later in the game as well rather than having 13 HP on the drake (8 x 2 = 16 - 3 = 13)

Edited by Mknissan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Mknissan said:

I saw that Leeroy combo coming right away.

When playing against Rogue, I feel like you just always assume they have it, because somehow they always do :p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yesterday I had a game against a rogue, I was at 11 health. He played a Leeroy and a shadow step but I assume he was kinda rushed in mind because he forgot to attack before he shadow stepped it :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Caldyrvan said:

Yesterday I had a game against a rogue, I was at 11 health. He played a Leeroy and a shadow step but I assume he was kinda rushed in mind because he forgot to attack before he shadow stepped it :D

I'm sure he was happy about that :p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Caldyrvan said:

I don't think so, in the following turn I played my own Leeroy buffed to 12/8 _D

So, he definitely wasn't happy then :p

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Caldyrvan said:

Yesterday I had a game against a rogue, I was at 11 health. He played a Leeroy and a shadow step but I assume he was kinda rushed in mind because he forgot to attack before he shadow stepped it :D

Two wins away from legend yesterday, I missed lethal because while on the rope counting damage from a Leeroy+Cold Blood+Xaril spells combo I forgot the southsea deckhand in my hand was a 3/2 minion with charge now rather than a 2/1 minion with charge. Bit painful....

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Bozonik said:

Two wins away from legend yesterday, I missed lethal because while on the rope counting damage from a Leeroy+Cold Blood+Xaril spells combo I forgot the southsea deckhand in my hand was a 3/2 minion with charge now rather than a 2/1 minion with charge. Bit painful....

At least it wasn't the game to get to legend!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 28/10/2017 at 11:07 AM, WedgeAntilles said:

Or with other words: If you make sure a certain combination he has in his hand in this turn can't kill you - do you leave yourself open for another combination in two more turns? (Him being able to clear the board, get control back, things like that. E.g. he uses vanish and plays a 4-cost-minion, later plays a second vanish, all the time doing some points of damage to you - and using the leeroy combo later on.)

That is something you have to consider when making this decision. In this case though, I can't see any realistic way in which you can lose after making the play in the answer. It avoids any one-turn lethal, so the priest of the feast must be dealt with before they go for any lethal. (And from the cards they've already played we can be near certain it's not a deck that runs vanish). I imagine it's possible some weird sequence of play from random card generation effects from swashburglar etc could fluke a win but it's very unlikely. So making the safest possible play increases our (already high) percentage win rate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Blainie said:

At least it wasn't the game to get to legend!

Yeah, that would hurt more. I have been one win away since, and got crushed hehe, though had I won the deckhand game I'd have been there already by then if the matchups went the same...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bozonik said:

Yeah, that would hurt more. I have been one win away since, and got crushed hehe, though had I won the deckhand game I'd have been there already by then if the matchups went the same...

Rest assured, something would have changed somewhere!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i was for some reason calculating that priest of the feast only healed two points per spell in my mind, so my play was going to be priest, double his life, play historian, bounce her and hero power, and finally traded. I had thought of bouncing operative, but i thought it would be better to search for another through historian. whether I replayed historian or not was up for debate, but that was my play. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/6/2017 at 3:47 PM, Leonmorte said:

i was for some reason calculating that priest of the feast only healed two points per spell in my mind, so my play was going to be priest, double his life, play historian, bounce her and hero power, and finally traded. I had thought of bouncing operative, but i thought it would be better to search for another through historian. whether I replayed historian or not was up for debate, but that was my play. 

I always have to pause and double check cards if I don't normally play the class. We all get some effects wrong sometimes :p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Damien
      This thread is for comments about our Elemental Mage Guide.
    • By Vlad
      This thread is for comments about our Secret Hunter guide.
    • By Starym
      We have a huge "in the works" update from the Hearthstone dev team, showing off some of the features coming in the next months for the game. From general information like them being pleased about the state of the Standard meta, to potential Wild changes, new Classic cards, an extended "intro" period for new players with 25 additional ranks and extra rewards (that are skippable), plans for improvements to in-game tournaments, a tweaking of the Welcome Bundle and more.
      We're also getting a preview for this year's Hallow's End and an upcoming new Paladin hero!
      September 18 (source)
      Welcome to Hearthstone’s first In the Works update. Here we’re giving you a brief look at what’s coming in the next few months for Hearthstone—game updates and events, esports, and more!
      There’s a lot to talk about, so read on to find out what’s in store.
      Game Updates
       
      The State of the Meta We’ve seen the meta-game start to stabilize in the wake of The Boomsday Project’s release. Decks like Odd Warrior, Odd Paladin, Token Druid, Tempo Mage, Taunt Druid, Zoo Warlock, Quest Rogue, Secret Hunter, Even Paladin, Deathrattle Hunter, and Even Warlock, have all been top performers.
      While those decks stand out from the pack slightly, there are effective decks from every class. Evolve Shaman and Combo Priest have both seen success, for example.
      Overall we’re happy with the excellent diversity of decks we’re seeing at all levels of Ranked Play.
       
      Cards to Watch Giggling Inventor is hugely popular and shows up in a lot of decks. We intended for Giggling Inventor to be powerful because we’ve found that having powerful neutral Taunt minions tends to make games more interesting. We’ve seen that with cards like Sludge Belcher and Tar Creeper in the past. Cards that fulfill this role need to be strong to get that job done, but there’s a line where they might be too good. 
      We aren’t planning any changes to Giggling Inventor for now, but we’re keeping an eye on it in the meantime. We’d like to know what you think.
       
      Wild Balance There’s been an ongoing discussion within the team regarding how Wild should play. Right now, Wild feels somewhat like Standard but with an elevated power level and a vast library of cards. Should Wild live up to its name more, where we allow really crazy and powerful combos to happen, even in the early game? Generally, it’s harder for any one strategy to be dominant in Wild since everything is so powerful and everyone has access to so many tools, but do we want those strategies to exist? We know that there are players who would prefer to have a mode that offers that kind of gameplay.
      There’s also the point to consider that the reason to have multiple modes in Hearthstone is for them to play differently, so there are downsides to trying to put the reins on Wild too much. But we also recognize that there might be decks like Naga Sea Witch that become too prevalent and simply aren’t fun to play against.
      We’d love to hear your opinions about what you want from Wild. What do you think of how it is now, and what’s the role you see for it in the future of Hearthstone?
       
      New Classic Cards If you’ve been playing Hearthstone for a while, then you already know that with each new Hearthstone year, we’ve chosen certain cards to rotate out of the Standard format. Some of those cards have been part of the Classic format, which is usually an evergreen part of the Standard format.
      A few of the cards that left Standard were Class cards, but we want each Class to have a roughly equal number of cards available in the Classic set. To accomplish that, we’re adding four all-new cards to fill the gap.
      Here are the new Class cards being added to the Classic set. You’ll be able to craft them or open them in Classic card packs next month:
       

      When designing these cards we are thinking about new players’ first experiences playing Hearthstone.  They should be relatively straightforward while still creating some exciting moments. They also give players a chance to see and play with cards that they don't own. At the same time it’s important that they aren’t so powerful that they limit future design or cause problems (since they’ll be in Standard for longer than 2 years.)
      Looking forward, we expect more cards to join the Hall of Fame. There are also still some gaps in Classic where neutral Legendary cards joined the Hall of Fame, so we’re considering adding some new cards to the Classic set in the future.
       
      New Player Experience Improvements Even at Rank 25, competition in the Tavern can be fierce, especially if you’ve never played Hearthstone before. We’d like to ease new players into the fray a little more gently, so we’re taking some steps toward improving the new player experience. Here’s what newcomers to the Hearthstone tavern can expect to find:

       
      New players will start at Rank 50. Ranks 50 through 26 will be for new players only, and just like ranks 25 through 20, you can’t lose Stars while ranking up. Once a player achieves Rank 25, they’ll never drop below that rank again. We hope this gives players who are new to Hearthstone a little more time to get used to the Tavern, and we’ll also be giving them a few free gifts along the way to help them get up to speed. If you’re an experienced player making an additional account, there will be an option to skip the New Player Experience (and some loot, so consider carefully!) so you can get back into the competition faster. There are a few more details that we’ll provide in the future, but that’s the gist of it!
       
      In-game Tournaments Update Earlier this year we talked about adding a new feature to Hearthstone that would make it easier to organize tournaments for Fireside Gatherings and private events. The team has been working on this feature for some time, and it was originally slated to arrive this year. Unfortunately, In-game Tournaments are now on hold, so we wanted to take this opportunity to explain why.
      We have a lot of plans to improve many features of Hearthstone, including its social experience, and In-game Tournaments are an important part of that. Tournaments can serve many different audiences, but the implementation we’d arrived at catered to a very specific audience of players. Instead of broadening Hearthstone with an exciting new way to play, it felt “tacked on”, and wasn’t integrating well into the larger Hearthstone experience.
      Ultimately, we were forced to conclude that we needed to think about how and where we want to improve Hearthstone’s overall social experience before we can tackle adding a satisfying and robust implementation of In-game Tournaments that all players can enjoy. As developers, sometimes we have to make the difficult decision to step away from a design that isn’t working. We no longer felt that the end result would deliver on everyone’s expectations or the high standards we have for Hearthstone.
      As a result, while we want to revisit In-Game Tournaments at a later date, the feature is on hold for the foreseeable future.
       
      Fireside Gatherings If you’ve never attended a Fireside Gathering, or organized one of your own, you’re missing one of the most fun ways to enjoy Hearthstone with friends! They’re more fun than ever—including private events in your own home—so drop by the Fireside Gatherings site and check it out.
      Innkeepers are soon going to have even more options to spice up their events. It was already possible to experience Fireside Brawls (Tavern Brawls that can only be experienced at Fireside Gatherings), and now they’ll have a whole menu of Brawls to choose from to offer their attendees. In addition to the rotating monthly Fireside Brawl, Innkeepers will be able to select one additional Fireside Brawl from a curated library of brawls that their patrons will have access to during their Fireside Gathering. 
       
      Esports The 2018 HCT Fall Championship is coming mid-October! Watch it live on stream or live in-person at the Blizzard Arena in Los Angeles.
      It’s going to be a thrilling event to witness, and if you can be there live, it gets even better! You’ll get to meet Hearthstone developers, enjoy pick-up tournaments on-site, snap up cool stuff like Hearthstone and Blizzard Arena merchandise and earn the Thrill of Victory card back just for attending!
      You can get your tickets here. Get them fast before they sell out as seating is limited!
       
      Welcome Bundle’s Roaring Return Okay, it never left, but it IS getting a majestic make-over. It will still offer 10 Classic card packs at a very low price (great time to try to pick up those new Classic Class cards!), but instead of a random Class Legendary card, it will now include one of six Legendary dragons from the Classic set: Alexstrasza, Deathwing, Malygos, Nozdormu, Onyxia, or Ysera!

       
      There’s even better news! What could be better than dragons, you ask? Even if you’ve purchased the Welcome Bundle before, you’ll be able to grab this one too!

       
      Upcoming Game Events
       
      Hallow’s End
      The Headless Horseman returns for another spooktacular Hallow’s End event starting October 17! Just like last year, the Tavern will be decked out in horrific fashion, the dual Class Arena returns, and you’ll face the Headless Horseman in the Tavern Brawl. In the spirit of the season, we’re tossing a few more treats in the bag this year, and we’ll let you know all about them as the Headless Horseman’s return draws nigh.

       
      Hallow’s End also marks the arrival of a friendly new Paladin Hero who will be available for purchase as a part of a special deal!
       


      And that’s what’s In the Works for Hearthstone! Thanks for joining us, and we look forward to hearing what you think, so let us know on social media, or in the comments below.
      New Paladin Hero, new Classic cards, an improved new player experience with more loot and more!
    • By Zadina
      It's all about repeat Tavern Brawls and Unstable Portals, as last week we had the Too Many Portals! brawl and this week we have another brawl utilising the same Mage spell.
      This is the second time we see this Tavern Brawl, as it was originally released two years ago. You pick your class and choose seven cards for your deck. The rest of the deck will be filled with Unstable Portals. The pool of your mulligan will consist of the seven cards that you have picked.
      Traditional Mage cards like Mana Wyrm and Flamewaker can be helpful in this Brawl. Rogue also has the tools to cheat out free spells with Counterfeit Coin and Preparation. Lastly, decks with the Barnes and Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound combo seem popular this time.
      Next week we will have a new Tavern Brawl, as part of the Days of the Frozen Throne event!