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   I have spent some time debating this given 554 ilvl w/o Uvls. (Worgen)


 Mastery>Haste 8100>Crit>Haste 8100+


  This setup seems to work well on a lot of fights and was wondering what some of you guys felt about this setup. Also allows for my Destro OS w/o a lot of reworking.

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Demo is dead. Destro and Aff of the same ilvl will crush it, hard.


Not really sure what you spent time debating, that's the same set up one would use with or without UVLS. Other than putting crit over extra haste. Won't matter, demo will still do crappy DPS.

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Most recent BiS shows all three specs dead even at 429k. Given this is all in bis, I haven't looked into making normal mode profiles quite yet.


This, of course, being single target only. The fact is that everything demo can do for fight mechanics this tier destruction does better. The same is true for affliction. It just plays out mechanically that destruction > affliction > demonology for how fights function now.

Edited by gahhda

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First of all, on anything Demo can do, Aff or Dest can do better.  Well, that is simply not true.  I just simply cannot get horns growing out of my head or have a Wrathguard, let alone being able to turn in to a demon form with either of those two. :D  Ok, so that's not fight mechanics, or DPS, but it *is* pretty important, at least to me. :D


Well it is true, that Dest and Aff are ahead, it is not true to say that Demo is not viable (Unless you are in the top few percent of raiding guilds, or your group has issues with hitting enrage timers).


As far as stat weighting, doing something similar, although I put it more like:


     haste (breakpoint) > mastery = crit > haste


Right now, playing around with different haste breakpoints, in my group, I cannot count on haste buff always being there, so I need to hit the hard reforge point, which would put my haste at 10952 for that second tick of shadowflame.  I am not sure it's worth it at this point, but, when I get 4 piece, it will probably move up in priority.


The master = crit, well, my mastery is a good deal higher than my crit since I gem for mastery, but on reforges (extra hit, haste, crit will take some precedence).  With my current gear, I could hit 50% crit with raid buff (that one I can count on) but that would be giving up far too much mastery.


I think, the biggest thing for me, is adjusting to fury management.  Gone are the days of nearly limitless demonic fury, and it has to be spent in a far wiser manner.


The biggest thing I am noticing about this approach vs the old that no longer exists, is even though burst dps is down, sustained is increased, and the big opener is offloaded a bit in to more of a stronger execution phase.

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Well it is true, that Dest and Aff are ahead, it is not true to say that Demo is not viable (Unless you are in the top few percent of raiding guilds


All my views/insights come from this perspective, unless otherwise stated, because this is what I raid at. I can't give insight into what I don't see.


Demo as it is now is 99% dead in progression heroic guilds. Unless you're out gearing content or have mega DPS from the other raiders, Demo just isn't cutting it. 

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First of all, on anything Demo can do, Aff or Dest can do better.  Well, that is simply not true.  I just simply cannot get horns growing out of my head or have a Wrathguard, let alone being able to turn in to a demon form with either of those two. biggrin.png


 Agreed biggrin.png I play Demo because I love the spec simple. Quite frankly if it was 10% below the other specs i would prob still play it. I am not a FOTM guy been demo from TBC. That being said I still want to min-max my spec. Noticed the drift from burst to sustained however not a huge deal given some fights. This raid week going to try scaling back to 12.5k mastery and shifting about 3k stats to crit and see how that works out.

Edited by Dutch

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      Glyph of Icy Veins- Great for burst situations. 
      Glyph of Armors - Allows you to boost the damage reduction on Molten Armor or the DoT reduction on Mage Armor.
      Glyph of Deep Freeze - Recommended for Arena use when you want to stop opponents going LoS.
      Glyph of Ice Block - Recommend when playing against other casters since it provides a 3 second invulnerability to spells. 
      Glyph of Polymorph - Recommended in arenas when you and your team members have DoTs on a target you want to control.
      and Minor Glyphs:
      Glyph of Momentum - If you want to blink in the direction you are strafing.
      Spell Categories:
      Your spells can be divided into the following categories
      Freeze (Root)
      Frost Nova
      Ring of Frost
      Slow (Snare)
      Cone of Cold
      Frozen Orb
      Counterspell(Improved Counterspell)
      Lose Control:
      Polymorph- Important: Don't use this spell on targets that are already injured, because they will regenerate at a much faster rate than normal when polymorthed.
      Deep Freeze- Also a DPS-Cooldown
      Blink - Important: Blink breaks Stuns!!
      Blazing Speed
      Survival-Absorbs-and-Heals (Imporant: Can be used while stunned):
      Temporal Shield
      Incanter's Ward
      Cold Snap
      Alter Time
      Ice Block
      Survival-Control Breakers:
      Blink - Blink breaks Stuns!!
      Ice Block
      Prideful Gladiator's Medallion of Cruelty
      Some other spells you can use are:
      AoE Spells to reveal enemies in Stealth:
      Arcane Explosion
      Mirror Image
      Icy Veins
      Deep Freeze
      Prideful Gladiator's Badge of Dominance
      In PvE, you have a DPS Rotation
      In PvP, you have combos, and conditional casts.
      Combos is where you cast certain spells together for an effect, like a Burst.
      Conditional Casts is when you use certain spells under certain conditions for example using Blink when you are stunned by a Rogue.
      Your gameplay mostly consists of completing Goals, these Goals can consist and be adjusted according to the instance you are playing and the type of opponent(s) you are facing. For example:
      Goals when playing against Melee opponents:
      1. Get some distance  (Survive)
      Reason: If they are not close to you, they cannot hit you.
      How: By using spells that Root / Snare them, or using spell to get away (Mentioned in the spell categories with "Survival" in their name)
      Normally, you open with your Pet Freeze just to keep them where they are, and to generate a Fingers of Frost (Free Ice Lance or Deep Freeze)
      If they are close to you, use Frost Nova instead. 
      If both are on cooldown, you can use Cone of Cold to slow them, and then cast a Ring of Frost between you and them to block their path.
      If these are on cooldown and they are getting close / used their anti-spell defensive cooldowns, use a "Absorb" type spell.
      Goals to killing opponents:
      1. The Setup (for a kill)
      Reason: If you use your DPS Cooldowns while they still have their defensive cooldowns, you won't be able to kill them.
      How: As you Root and Snare your opponent, you can cast your Mage Bomb and use some Ice Lances, Frostfire Bolts, Frostbolts to damage your target. They will start using their PvP Trinkets and Defensive abilities just to counter the damage while rooted or snared. Another way to force someone to use their PvP Trinket is to use Polymorth (Do not cast on injured opponents).
      When you know they have used their Trinket/Defensive Cooldowns, you can proceed to Burst them.
      2. Burst
      Reason: Normal damage will allow the target to [cast heals/ to be healed]. Bursting is a effective way to kill someone without them getting heals.
      First, you will need to freeze (root) them with your Pet's Freeze / Frost Nova / Ring of Frost. Another option is to have 1 Fingers of Frost (from using Frozen Orb / Pet Freeze / Frostbolts).
      Next is:
      Use your DPS Cooldowns (Icy Veins, Mirror Images, PvP Power Trinket, Berserk, etc)
      Cast Mage Bomb, then Frostbolt.
      While the Frostbolt is still traveling, cast Deep Freeze (While you have FoF or the Root on target). Any spells cast while the target is under Deep Freeze's effect will also trigger Shatter. 
      From here on, spam Ice Lance until Deep Freeze wears off, then cast your Frostfire Bolt.
      The following spells should hit for:
      1x Mage Bomb (75k)
      1x Frostbolt (25k non-crit, 50k crit)
      4x Ice Lance (each hits for like 80k)
      1x Brain Freeze (50k)
      Total: 495k (Keep in mind this amount can change according to thier resilliance and your PvP Power)
      That is all folks, thanks for reading, Please leave some constructive comments/tips so we can bring out an Official Icy-Veins Frost Mage PvP Guide later on.
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