Vlad

Heroes of the Storm Whitemane

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This thread is for comments about our Whitemane guide for Heroes of the Storm.

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Great guide, as usual! Whitemane seems absurdly fun to use, even though she is probably not a top tier healer.

My complaint is that you guys didn't add "No one expects the Scarlet Inquisition" for her guide quote.

 

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Well first few games played with her.  Some thoughts:

I got to try both her W and her E builds and both worked quite well.  Her healing isn't bad at all, especially with Clemency, and her damage is respectable (even more so compared to what most other supports have atm).  Her lack of mobility/escape and her low amounts of CC are her biggest issues.  That said, the CC she has access to (her W and Harsh Discipline) are both surprisingly good range, fast, and very easy to use.  Thanks to that good range/ease of use, her lack of mobility isn't as bad as it first seems.

I agree for the most part with all of the talent recommendations with only a few exceptions:

I don't find myself making a lot of use of Zealous Spirit, her Q is fast enough that if I need to put Zeal on me I just do it.  I'd rather have either the cleanse or the damage buff (depending on what my team needs more).  Likewise, given how little CC she has (and now knowing how easy it is to trigger the root) I have a hard time not picking Harsh Discipline regardless of build.  Again, if I need to heal myself I don't generally have a problem Qing myself so Self-Rightious doesn't really appeal to me.

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Inquisition is a little suicidal unless you get Clemency and heal allies and then use them in later levels to bounce for damage.

Searing Lash is the way to go if you want to have an impact without rooting yourself.

The healing and damage are both in line with the majority of support. Though the searing lash can match assassins if it is allowed to. Edit: When you consider end-game stats. Due to up time and range, damage is quite high over the game. Similar to an Azmodan using mostly Globes. Due to safety, more of those 'low damaging area shots' are landing. The lack of mana required is pretty huge.

That's it so far. A lot to play with definitely.

Also her Taunt is more of a cheeky wave than a taunt. Maybe she's trying to lure enemies to her? :p

Edit 2: Is it me or does Desperate Plea heal really really well? Damage is lacking though. Can't compete with assassins like other two builds can. Assuming you can sustain uses of Inquisition. That cooldown is pretty long and easily disrupted.

Edited by Morcalivan

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Managed to get some more games in with Whitemane and a few things are becoming clearer to me:

Her W build, while better at passive healing, is just pants at everything else (compared to her other build).  Clemency is nice but in the end it's not necessary.  Meanwhile, her E build is just getting better and better in my mind.  Better damage, better healing (in combat).  Easy choice.

Special mention this time around goes out to Unwavering Faith at level 4.  At first I tried High Inquisitor and Indulgence for this level (thinking they would fit their respective builds better) but now having used Unwavering Faith?  It blows the other two out of the water.  High Inquisitor is gated behind a very long cooldown (even with Clemency) which you want to save to combo with her E anyway.  Indulgence does nothing unless you're hitting multiple targets multiple times.  Unwavering Faith just makes mana a none issue.  Her first Q is free (while later ones cost less) and remains so as long as you let Desperation cooldown.  There is your Clemency replacement for out of combat healing taken care of right there.  That alone might be enough to make it the best level 4 talent but then it gets even better.  In a tough fight when you really need to spam Q (while your other skills are on cooldown), you get a free shield to help save your life.  I'm totally sold on this talent.

I think I'm settling on this as my go to build:

Righteous Flame > Unwavering Faith > Intercession/Fanatical Power > Scarlet Aegis > Harsh Discipline > Lashing Out > Scarlet Crusade/Purge the Wicked/Subjugation (All three are totally viable depending on the situation)

Edited by KSDT

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I think all 3 of 4 level 1 talents have uses. Martyrdom makes the 4th level 1 talent useless. I Pity the Fail I think it's called? Or should be? :p

Clemency is linked to level 16/20's must pick benefits to be worth it. And Righteous Flame is for heavier Zeal damage. Pretty simple.

For level 4, Unwavering Faith is definitely more reliable. It's the reason going Desperate Plea build feels so strong. You can just keep using it, keep it on your teammates longer for zeal, and use it more for burst healing for the stacks talent bonuses.

High Inquisitor feels like it's for when you run out of mana after burst healing.

Indulgence is just a nice reliable way to regain or maintain mana every 5 seconds, either once or twice in small or large numbers. But, it relies on Hero targets where Unwavering Faith does not. So if you can stay in the fight through ranged poke, then it should keep mana up just fine. But if your team likes to dive against a more mobile team then grabbing this will end badly.

Level 7 you choose between maintained self-Zeal, burst damage for more Team-Zeal, and a 1 second cleanse. That last once doesn't really match with the theme. But all of them are good. First one keeps you alive more and lets you focus on healing teammates more, while second increases your healing and damage for a short amount of time with a risk to self, and the third has a clear but very short purpose of possibly saving a teammate in certain situations.

Level 10 has two very easy to understand talents. One is team defense that just reacts to bad situations, while another is team offense that requires a little more pre-setup and better coordination by teammates.

Level 13 will typically lean to Harsh Discipline unless going for a Desperate Plea build which can use Self-Righteous for more self-heals or go Guiding Light for additional team mobility. Combines with Intercession to break control and then get them out of there with follow up of Guiding Light.

Level 16, basically enhances your level 1 talent choices and to choose otherwise is just harmful to your playstyle.

Level 20, has a Clemency talent auto pick, then two heroic enhancers, and a final single target burst damage team focus fire talent.

All of the level 20s are very clear on what they should be used for which situation.

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I've played about 20 quickmatches and 10 drafts with Sally, and I gotta say, her Desperate Plea build seems like the most consistent and useful build. Granted, I'm playing at a high Silver/low Gold skill level, so her results might be different in higher bracket.

However, glancing at her hotslogs profile, it seems like her Plea build is in fact faring better than her other builds. 

Are you planning on updating her build guide with a Plea build? I was kind of shocked when I saw her guide didn't even have one listed.

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18 hours ago, CasualOptimist said:

I've played about 20 quickmatches and 10 drafts with Sally, and I gotta say, her Desperate Plea build seems like the most consistent and useful build. Granted, I'm playing at a high Silver/low Gold skill level, so her results might be different in higher bracket.

However, glancing at her hotslogs profile, it seems like her Plea build is in fact faring better than her other builds. 

Are you planning on updating her build guide with a Plea build? I was kind of shocked when I saw her guide didn't even have one listed.

Yes, it is very good. It will be up soon.

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One of the abilities mentions it is a good idea to stick to two Desperation stacks and waiting for them to fall off. A comment to add to that tip is that sticking to two Desperation stacks in a fight means that you can control when you get a shield and when all allies with Zeal get a burst heal, both from Q talents. Two stacks, Aegis, then activating another Desperation stack is fantastic healing, especially combined with extra spell power. I think those combos should be mentioned somewhere in the guide.

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It is, a terrible analysis.

Level 7 , You cannot forgo fanatical power for zealous spirit at all. Fanatical power is comboable with ultimate and radiance, and gives some burst damage potential to the enemy you combo. Zealous spirit is outright bad, a comfort talent.

At 13, you do not even consider her strongest talent, which is the root. A 1.5 seconds reliable root at range cannot be missed.

I have no idea where you got the "unreliable healing" from. With a Q build, the heals are reghar-ult-like, and she consistently tops the healing numbers on every game.

This guide is totally off, I was expecting better from a well references website.

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4 hours ago, Guest Eranok said:

To the moderator,

Negative comment disapproved ?

That kind of moderation ? What a joke.

It was not yet approved, as it was 3:30-4:30 in the morning for EU, which most of us are based in, just after a very busy launch of a new expansion, meaning none of us were staying up late.

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After testing out, IndulgenceIndulgence, I figured it's just bad and here is why.
Without W1-4 or Q 4, you simply can't afford yourself to spam Qs, especially outside of combat.
With W1-4 you can drop Qs around as need be and dire moment comes, drop in as much Qs as need be and 'W' or '1' someone, gaining all your mana back.
With Q, you have 3 modes, mana preserving, working and overload mode, given how much mana it saves for first mode, plus there is added benefit of shield.
I'll say that if you take ClemencyClemency, you should take High InquisitorHigh Inquisitor, because of W CDR and always having reliable way to remove desperation through above mentioned Clemency.

Then comes IndulgenceIndulgence. it gives nothing outside of TFs, and even mana gain you get is too incosistent. On top of that, it gives nothing outside of mana return, like other 2 do (desperation removal and shield).
ONLY time when it might overcome those 2 is with level 16 Lashing OutLashing Out. But builiding around level 16 ito finally be good is next to worthless.

Edited by SleepySheepy
typos

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This hero is AWESOME !!! Here are some thoughts how I see Whitemane:

Q build mentioned below is https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/whitemane#37.0!1111111

W - Clemency build https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/whitemane#37.0!2211223

This build is simple awesome because you have endless sustainability, which means Whitemane is pair well with heroes without mana or with Guldan and even with heroes like Valla who can have extra mana regen if picking certain talents. If there will be brawl with one lane push, then Whitemane is the only support who can always be at front and healing !

Ideally all you need to do is this combo: 'Q, E, Q, Q, E, clemency / inquisition'. This cycle can be done every 10 seconds, based on clemency / inquisition CD. This cycle has same mana consumption as mana recovery. If you need to fill ur mana then you skip 3rd Q and you will get more mana than you used.

Theorycraft ( QEQQEW ) at lvl 20

Let's say you have zeal on one target via previous clemency. Your inquisition will hit 2x heroes and your E will hit twice. Q = 307 healing, E = 2x180 healing, W = 7x (116 + 77) 1351 healing. Your first E will affect 2x heroes with zeal, and your 2nd E will affect 3 heroes with zeal. Your total healing with 0 mana cost in 10seconds will be:

307+2x2x180 + 307+307+3x2x180+3x1350 = 4050 ! which is more than 400 healing per second

Without hitting enemy heroes it will be 3x307+813 = 1734 !

Your abilites can be also translated as:

Q = mana burn

W = mana back / root

E = more healing

R = zeal for free, more healing and 40% armor

trait = healing

 

What I love about this build is the fact you can affort to burn your mana anytime and 20-30sec after you can be back to 100% HP, 100% mana, while healing others. With clemency there are games where I never went a single pixel back always pushing 😉

Imho questionable talents I selected:

lvl 7 is like extra wheels on kids bike its basicly auto selfhealing, it saves a bit mana if u screw up ur combo. If you are good enough than you dont need it and you can go unstoppable

lvl 16 is situational, if I dont need extra healing I go 'W - Shared Punishment' so I can root 2 enemies

lvl 20 is situational as well, if enemy team has single dmg dealer than Subjugation is logical choice, if they have a lot CC then upgrade ulti

 

Unplanned burst healing = Qs and drain all mana in less than one second

Q build: Q heals more, you can save your ally and yourself via self healing + shield, but at cost of no mana recovery

Clemency: Q heals less, mana recovery, you can save only one hero

 

Mana management

Q build: dont go 3 stacks unless you need to

Clemency: at 3stacks you need to cast clemency / inquisition otherwise you will lose quite a lot mana. Going 4th Q is still OK - after getting mana back you should be above 50% which is still ok.

 

Healing out of combat

Q build: very bad

Clemency: endless sustainability up to 173 healing per EVERY second in game (at lvl 20)

 

My recommendation to Whitemane rookies

As I saw on HGC whitemane is super situational and if you want to get for example maximum healing out of combat you can go:

https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/whitemane#37.0!2211111

- I really recommend this build to new players who will try her. Just focus on your mana recovery and dont care about anything else. After you will do it automaticly, then add root at lvl 13 https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/whitemane#37.0!2211211 and when you master it then you can go and try any crazy combination you find interesting

 

I hope they wont nerf her so she will be unplayable. She is simple the best. I am not pro, I am not master either, I would like to say I am an average player who enjoys the game 🙂

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