Feature request for Class Guides

8 posts in this topic

Once again, I want to congratulate Icy Veins upon becoming one of the best sources of good information for MoP. You compounded your class-guides with some of the best raid- and tanking-guides that I have seen. They break things down very simply, and allow one to pick up the important aspects of every fight quickly.


I have a feature request for the Class Guides. I've noticed that there is no one, consistent location where each of them discusses the relative value of the various 2- and 4-piece bonuses on different tiers of gear. I find myself searching through the guides in order to locate that kind of information.


I'm not sure I found any source of tier-bonus information in some guides for some specs or classes, in fact! And that kind of information can be extremely important when making gear and loot decisions. 


Therefore, would it be possible for your sages to put such information in a consistent location for every guide? Or, to add them to some guides?


This information doesn't just help my toons... it helps me to better-optimize my teammates in my raid teams. (Since, let's be honest, not everyone is as devoted to knowing their class as some of us are) And, to advise the Raid Leader (and, players) on which pieces of gear should go to whom.


~ Oni

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That sounds like a very important aspect of guides to have updated! I wouldn't mind helping Damien or Vlad out if you guys need some help ;) I know a guild or two with logs that I could poke into a get a good estimate of the damage increase, theorycraft some of the %s myself, or just look them up!

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Yeah the information is definitely there.


I think Oni is hoping for a section where it shows that information by itself, rather than under the 'Best in Slot Advice' section.  Arguably, if you're skimming through content, you could miss that I suppose.  Perhaps just highlighted a little better rather than being lumped in with the other bullets?

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I've been through the paladin ones, and there's really only information regarding the protection one, where it discusses Theck and Slootbag's opinions of the their bonuses vs tier 15 bonuses. There isn't even a mention on the ret one as it says it needs to be updated still, and the holy one just says something along the lines of "They're good, go get'em boy!"


I feel like a bit more information would benefit those who actually seek the true knowledge behind them, such as min/max players, or just people who really want to understand whats going on behind them without thinking too hard. If you take a look at the post I made on MadMonk's tier post for paladins here:




I briefly went over some math and visited a tuesday heroic farm log from my old raiding guild to get sample data. I could be more detailed and give averages, or make formulas where you input a stat that would help show how to know how useful it is based on your stats, even make a punch in your ratings formula and output average procs.

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We've already started doing that in the first section of the "Gear and BiS" pages of our class guides. What do you think of http://www.icy-veins.com/restoration-druid-wow-pve-healing-gear-loot-best-in-slot ?


There are some short asides about the set-bonuses, but a more specific discussion of their value (or, lack thereof) is what I'm seeking. In going to some guides, they tell you in a single sentence to do X,Y,Z... without talking about why. (If I wanted that kind of advice, I'd go to Noxxic. But I still don't think they get it right on some things)


In looking specifically for this kind of information, on various classes I even scrolled past some of them, because they weren't identified as such. I'm pretty sure I saw some set-bonus information in other sections (other than BiS) of guides as well.


For one of my own characters? (A Shadowpriest) It is slightly longer than others in saying this:



  • The Tier 16 2-piece bonus is a definite must-have ASAP. The Tier 15 4-piece bonus is more valuable now that it was in Tier 15 (Shadowy Apparitions being redone to be missiles instead of spawned creatures), but 553 ilvl T16 2P > 543 ilvl T15 4P.




This doesn't tell me what the value is of the Tier 16 4-piece. Is it valuable at all? Or ought I to be skipping the 4-piece and just using stuff with good stats?


Anyhoo, as you can see, I am just hoping for this kind of information to be better fleshed-out.


~ Oni

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I understand now. We started adding these sections after Patch 5.4, so there still is work to do. Our reviewers are giving us the information we need and sometimes, it is hard to make them understand exactly what we want, but I think it will get better as we keep polishing things.

Twintop is using the T16 4-piece bonus, so I'm guessing you may want to go for it eventually, but this is not a priority.

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I can say from experience that using inv_gloves_plate_raiddeathknight_n_01.jpGauntlets of Cyclopean Dread for 2 piece t16 with basic green gems and no enchant was a dps GAIN over inv_gloves_plate_raiddeathknight_n_01.jpCorruption-Rotted Gauntlets fully upgraded, rare gems and str enchant.


The stipulation being that you reforge out of haste to make mastery the stacking buff as DW and then you get more stacking mastery than the higher ilvl gloves could possibly have; still its a little counter intuitive.  It was about a 3% dps(e) increase and smoothed the dps graph so its less bursty. I don't have enough logs to compare the total dps gain though.


I have no idea about 2h partially because I dont have the crit gear to test it properly but I'd be willing to do some dummy tests if you'd count those as accurate enough.




Omaric: is that you with Sky Williams?

Edited by Failhard
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