oni

Feature request for Class Guides

8 posts in this topic

Once again, I want to congratulate Icy Veins upon becoming one of the best sources of good information for MoP. You compounded your class-guides with some of the best raid- and tanking-guides that I have seen. They break things down very simply, and allow one to pick up the important aspects of every fight quickly.

 

I have a feature request for the Class Guides. I've noticed that there is no one, consistent location where each of them discusses the relative value of the various 2- and 4-piece bonuses on different tiers of gear. I find myself searching through the guides in order to locate that kind of information.

 

I'm not sure I found any source of tier-bonus information in some guides for some specs or classes, in fact! And that kind of information can be extremely important when making gear and loot decisions. 

 

Therefore, would it be possible for your sages to put such information in a consistent location for every guide? Or, to add them to some guides?

 

This information doesn't just help my toons... it helps me to better-optimize my teammates in my raid teams. (Since, let's be honest, not everyone is as devoted to knowing their class as some of us are) And, to advise the Raid Leader (and, players) on which pieces of gear should go to whom.

 

~ Oni

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That sounds like a very important aspect of guides to have updated! I wouldn't mind helping Damien or Vlad out if you guys need some help ;) I know a guild or two with logs that I could poke into a get a good estimate of the damage increase, theorycraft some of the %s myself, or just look them up!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah the information is definitely there.

 

I think Oni is hoping for a section where it shows that information by itself, rather than under the 'Best in Slot Advice' section.  Arguably, if you're skimming through content, you could miss that I suppose.  Perhaps just highlighted a little better rather than being lumped in with the other bullets?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been through the paladin ones, and there's really only information regarding the protection one, where it discusses Theck and Slootbag's opinions of the their bonuses vs tier 15 bonuses. There isn't even a mention on the ret one as it says it needs to be updated still, and the holy one just says something along the lines of "They're good, go get'em boy!"

 

I feel like a bit more information would benefit those who actually seek the true knowledge behind them, such as min/max players, or just people who really want to understand whats going on behind them without thinking too hard. If you take a look at the post I made on MadMonk's tier post for paladins here:

 

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/2955-paladin-tier-16-t16-set-bonuses/

 

I briefly went over some math and visited a tuesday heroic farm log from my old raiding guild to get sample data. I could be more detailed and give averages, or make formulas where you input a stat that would help show how to know how useful it is based on your stats, even make a punch in your ratings formula and output average procs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We've already started doing that in the first section of the "Gear and BiS" pages of our class guides. What do you think of http://www.icy-veins.com/restoration-druid-wow-pve-healing-gear-loot-best-in-slot ?

 

There are some short asides about the set-bonuses, but a more specific discussion of their value (or, lack thereof) is what I'm seeking. In going to some guides, they tell you in a single sentence to do X,Y,Z... without talking about why. (If I wanted that kind of advice, I'd go to Noxxic. But I still don't think they get it right on some things)

 

In looking specifically for this kind of information, on various classes I even scrolled past some of them, because they weren't identified as such. I'm pretty sure I saw some set-bonus information in other sections (other than BiS) of guides as well.

 

For one of my own characters? (A Shadowpriest) It is slightly longer than others in saying this:

 

 

  • The Tier 16 2-piece bonus is a definite must-have ASAP. The Tier 15 4-piece bonus is more valuable now that it was in Tier 15 (Shadowy Apparitions being redone to be missiles instead of spawned creatures), but 553 ilvl T16 2P > 543 ilvl T15 4P.

 

 

 

This doesn't tell me what the value is of the Tier 16 4-piece. Is it valuable at all? Or ought I to be skipping the 4-piece and just using stuff with good stats?

 

Anyhoo, as you can see, I am just hoping for this kind of information to be better fleshed-out.

 

~ Oni

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand now. We started adding these sections after Patch 5.4, so there still is work to do. Our reviewers are giving us the information we need and sometimes, it is hard to make them understand exactly what we want, but I think it will get better as we keep polishing things.

Twintop is using the T16 4-piece bonus, so I'm guessing you may want to go for it eventually, but this is not a priority.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can say from experience that using inv_gloves_plate_raiddeathknight_n_01.jpGauntlets of Cyclopean Dread for 2 piece t16 with basic green gems and no enchant was a dps GAIN over inv_gloves_plate_raiddeathknight_n_01.jpCorruption-Rotted Gauntlets fully upgraded, rare gems and str enchant.

 

The stipulation being that you reforge out of haste to make mastery the stacking buff as DW and then you get more stacking mastery than the higher ilvl gloves could possibly have; still its a little counter intuitive.  It was about a 3% dps(e) increase and smoothed the dps graph so its less bursty. I don't have enough logs to compare the total dps gain though.

 

I have no idea about 2h partially because I dont have the crit gear to test it properly but I'd be willing to do some dummy tests if you'd count those as accurate enough.

 

 

ALSO,

Omaric: is that you with Sky Williams?

Edited by Failhard
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Tiqqle
      Hi ya'll - My Mission is to a make EVERYONE comfortable in PvP and have FUN knowing they're playing their class well, and are able to help contribute to the team. This should decrease the amount of griefers, salty dogs, ragers, and quitters in PvP throughout arena / bgs!! It's my goal <3
      Pushing towards that I wanted to share a PvP Guide I've put together breaking down talents, honor talents, and how to do the rotation for Elemental Shaman. I hope it helps you guys and gives you an edge in PvP. I'll be putting together some more to help break more pieces of PVP.
      Elemental shaman are at the BEST place they've been in for PATCHES!! So it's a great time to push rating and try some different comps out!! 
      My top 3v3 comps:
      1) Boom + Ele + MW/Hpal
      2) Destro + Ele + Heals
      3) Sub + Ele + HPriest
      4) Ele + War + Rdruid
      5) Spriest + Ele + Heals
      My top 2v2 comps - anything other than these is kind too hard to handle with how often there are melee in 2v2.
      1) MW + Ele
      2) Rogue + Ele
      3) Ele + Rdruid
      4) Ele + Hpriest
      Let me know what works for you and what doesnt!!
      The future guides will include
      1) Arena Guide - dealing with positioning, when to do damage, communicating , and key addons that will help you
      2) Battleground Guide - what specs work for each map, little tips and tricks per map type, and how to communicate with your teammates well
      3) UI - reviewing how different UI setups can REALLY enhance your pvp gameplay
      4) Keybinds and Macros - Trying to call out the little changes you can make that can make a big difference, and things you may not be thinking about for Macros/keybinds that could blow your mind.
      -Tiqqle
    • By AcidSapphire
      Hello there,

      I am trying to find a character that suits me and 'till now i didn't find it..
      I have a Paladin level 110, a Rogue, DH, Warrior and a Druid. I really enjoyed to play Prot. Paladin but i was overwhelmed with all the knowledge i need to know for raids.I have to say that this is the class that i played the most. I have to say that i usually play in weekends and sometimes in week days.
      I enjoyed playing warrior in PVP but, that was it, nothing else..

      Two days ago i just got my Druid level 110 and played as Feral (with the intention to play Resto or Guard 'cause i want to be a healer and/or a tank but i found the rotations a little off for me..)

      Anyway, my question is, what should i play? I was thinking about a Disc Priest or a Ench/Resto Shaman or a Brew/Mist Monk. I just can't decide what i should play and unfortunately i have to level them from scratch..

      Any advice ?

      I really need a new perspective 'bout what i should play :)

      Thanks!
    • By Sharken808
      Hey guys,
      Before you start any transmog farm ensure you have the following addons:
      https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/lootappraiser
      https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/tradeskill-master
      The farm i will be doing is located in the vanilla blackwing lair raid,
      This can be done with only a few characters as you require 2 things:
      - A way to drop combat such as invisibility or feign death
      - Magical damage such as arcane explosion for mages or hunter trap 
      the best option is still to use mage and even better would be a nightelf mage as you would have shadowmeld and invisibility.
      A detailed video on any information you may need.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiboRlLf-zY
      Thanks for your time and i hope you get some nice stuff.
    • By Valkas
      I played at the launch of legion for a good month or two, but i've recently come back. I picked up unholy and I really like it but I like to have some alts so i'm looking for another option.

      Now, to clarify my question. What I mean when I ask for complexity is perhaps not everyones definition. When I play my UDK, I understand the basics. Put on wounds, pop wounds=Damage. Obviously it's a lot deeper than that in terms of our kit but thats the general gist. When I play UDK, I feel as if I play it more i'll get better. There's some RNG, and lots of varying situations as to what button I need to press next to squeeze out the most dps.

      That's the kind of thing I crave. And i'm curious what other classes have this type of playstyle in the same or varying degrees. I know for a fact feral is in this camp, and if i'd guess i'd say it's the most complex class in legion at the moment. The problem is I don't really like Feral's flavor. I tried Arms warrior but my problem with it was i'd colossus smash...and then just hit the guy. It never really seemed to change and that got on my nerves a little, despite me loving the flavor. 

      To summarize, what classes do you guys thing have the deepest pool of choices, the most you can wring out of them by practice and mastery of them. Whether that be through best rotation or maybe even a legendary or two that mix it up for them. Thanks in advance!
    • By Athenior
      "For AoE there are two options. The first of these is Loramus Thalipedes' Sacrifice, further increasing the power of  Fel Rush for each subsequent target you charge through, though recent changes have diminished how powerful this is. 7.2 has extended this to apply with the first target hit, but are still unremarkable."
      This may sound stupid but I was hoping someone could just help me clarify this last sentence of this section. "7.2 has extended this to apply with the first target hit, but are still unremarkable." I'm a bit confused as to what this means. Is this sentence saying that the damage is "unremarkable" in a good way? Or bad way? I've just received the legendary boots and am trying to see if they're a good choice in fights with a lot of adds. 
      Thank you for your time.