Frost Mage PvE

[Guest Breaktheice]

Hey, 

Minor error on the talents page: Splitting Ice Icicles cleave for 65% (like Lance). It's still listed as 80% in your description. 

[Guest Georgina]

On 4/4/2021 at 3:41 AM, RefluxDoomhammer said:

I think it's pretty safe to go with Unrelenting... even for single target bossing.

In most ST setups, Nadija's DD outperforms UC or IB. IB is > UC for single target, so the only comparisson is on DD vs IB. 

Dauntless Duelist will often just be better on ST even at R7 Ice Bite. Dauntless Duelist gives 3% damage and Ice Bite gives 6.4% frozen Ice Lance damage. The breakpoint where Ice Bite would become better there is when Ice Lance is 3/6.4=46.875% of your overall damage.

The share of your Ice Lances relative to the rest of your damage can change with gear, but it's mostly a function of things like trinkets that do damage (e.g., Glyph of Assimilation) and consumables like Phantom Fire potions, which will reduce the percentage of your damage that comes from Ice Lance.

Also worth noting that gaining crit chance will not increase the percentage of your damage that is from Ice Lance. If anything, it will go down because Icy Propulsion and Slick Ice is going to increase the percentage of damage from your Frostbolt.

[Guest Niflheim]

This is absolutely incorrect information. Try again. 

[Guest Georgina]

7 hours ago, Guest Niflheim said:

This is absolutely incorrect information. Try again. 

How is it incorrect? It's literally math

[Kuni 28]

18 hours ago, Guest Breaktheice said:

Hey, 

Minor error on the talents page: Splitting Ice Icicles cleave for 65% (like Lance). It's still listed as 80% in your description. 

Yeah that's a Blizzard typo. Icicles cleaves 80% still.

 

12 hours ago, Guest Niflheim said:

This is absolutely incorrect information. Try again. 

Come back with numbers. Base T26 sim profiles use 226/rank 7 conduits and DD does indeed beat any non-Icy Propulsion conduit on single target at any available conduit level.

[Guest Breaktheice]

21 hours ago, Kuni said:

Yeah that's a Blizzard typo. Icicles cleaves 80% still.

 

Did not know that, thank you ❤️

Just curious, what sims/setup did you use to conclude that Necro is the best AoE covenant for Frost? Always falls short vs Night Fae for my own mage, so I'm curious as to what parameters you used to come up with your conclusion. 

[Kuni 28]

20 hours ago, Guest Breaktheice said:

Did not know that, thank you ❤️

Just curious, what sims/setup did you use to conclude that Necro is the best AoE covenant for Frost? Always falls short vs Night Fae for my own mage, so I'm curious as to what parameters you used to come up with your conclusion. 

5t, generic mythic t26 with GF, Heirmir with gemstone. Should still be slightly higher than NF, or at least it was when I ran the sims for this patch originally.

[Thargalin 0]

 Mistake

Edited April 13, 2021 by Thargalin
Mistake

[Guest Tsuki]

I was going through the Gems and Enchants and with the chest enchant comparison Its using 'Sacred stats' vs 'Eternal insight' and I was just wondering whether 'Eternal stats' is better than the 'Eternal insight' for comparison of choices. (Although I know its for price comparison but what is 100 gold in todays age)

[Kuni 28]

On 5/12/2021 at 2:30 AM, Guest Tsuki said:

I was going through the Gems and Enchants and with the chest enchant comparison Its using 'Sacred stats' vs 'Eternal insight' and I was just wondering whether 'Eternal stats' is better than the 'Eternal insight' for comparison of choices. (Although I know its for price comparison but what is 100 gold in todays age)

Keeping in mind we are talking about sub-1% differences, Insight is significantly better than Eternal Stats.
 

The comparison is made on price for someone who wishes to enchant, say, a 140 piece for the sake of having any enchant at all. While the difference in price now is functionally irrelevant for most players, it may have an impact on newer players or people who have that itch to absolutely enchant or gem every piece of gear they get, no matter if a likely upgrade is an hour away. 

[Bucks01 1]

Why is Theotar the Mad Duke the ST soulbind? Mastery is terrible and you can easily pick up 3 potency conduits in the Nadjia tree instead of DD. 

[Kuni 28]

On 12/23/2021 at 9:22 PM, Bucks01 said:

Why is Theotar the Mad Duke the ST soulbind? Mastery is terrible and you can easily pick up 3 potency conduits in the Nadjia tree instead of DD. 

Short answer: it sims better - https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vRUrH1ZYbBDacXpLWEZd4X

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7813ro4oEc2U9wGujc5W5g/simc Here's weights for both Theotar and Nadjia.

Mastery being a non-zero value, "worst" is not "useless". Party Favours is also disgustingly powerful, and essentially single-handedly propelled Theotar to first place. Because you're right, Theotar was nigh-useless in 9.0!

ETA: If you're curious, here's Theotar *without* his Mastery proc vs Nadjia: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5CJDHWd8KFQPWn7osPfJpe So compared with the first link, you need what, 25% uptime on actually standing in it to break even? Seems easy enough.

[Bucks01 1]

On 1/3/2022 at 3:59 AM, Kuni said:

Short answer: it sims better - https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vRUrH1ZYbBDacXpLWEZd4X

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7813ro4oEc2U9wGujc5W5g/simc Here's weights for both Theotar and Nadjia.

Mastery being a non-zero value, "worst" is not "useless". Party Favours is also disgustingly powerful, and essentially single-handedly propelled Theotar to first place. Because you're right, Theotar was nigh-useless in 9.0!

ETA: If you're curious, here's Theotar *without* his Mastery proc vs Nadjia: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5CJDHWd8KFQPWn7osPfJpe So compared with the first link, you need what, 25% uptime on actually standing in it to break even? Seems easy enough.

Thanks, I am very new to frost mage and that was not making much sense to me. 

[Guest utgold2k4]

The quote bellow is only correct at low haste. Anything beyond 15% haste makes the normal FB>Flurry>IL>IL possible during Mirrors. 20%+ is best. Also even if you don't have the haste you can still precast FB on the 3rd mirrors proc as you arent in hurry anymore. Final note IV and TW give you enough haste to run the normal rotation.

 

Cast Mirrors of Torment.

• You should ignore the pre-cast Frostbolt for these Brain Freeze procs, and just Flurry > double Ice Lance. You will not have enough time before the next proc if you do not ignore the Frostbolt.

[Kuni 28]

"Technically possible" is not "optimal". It's a proc munch prevention measure, and "how many high power spells can we fit into Siphoned Malice" thing. That said, sure, I could change the reasoning. I just went for ease of getting people to understand.

I'll change it to be technically accurate. My bad.

For completion sake, your proposed change is an approx 50+/-5 DPS loss in my gear with 21.88% Haste, and a 32+/-6 on the T27 Mythic profile with 24.39%. Realistically next to nothing, but a loss regardless.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mtQnEUNF6oMRKCE16TpySy

ETA: The "it doesn't fit" is if you proc BF on your leading Frostbolt. You're then looking to fit 10 seconds of casting less haste in a 6s window, and that doesn't include the 2 trailing Lances on the procced one, which bleed into the second window. Not leading with Frostbolt while the windows are up means you're a lot less likely to end up in a weird position if you, say, chain proc BF. It's not eliminated, but it reduces the chance of it happening.

Basically you end up with Mirrors > Frostbolt (Procced BF, delayed 250ms due to having active BF proc from MoT already) > Flurry > Ice Lance > Ice Lance > Flurry > Ice Lance > Ice Lance, with the next Mirror popping near the end. Due to mob swing timers you're not always exact with this but that's the general idea. There's no room to put a second Frostbolt in the middle of the window without ending up in a situation where you'll munch BF if you get a normal proc. Yeah, TW+IV and 20% haste (6.4s hasted chain) puts you in a case where your last Lance is ending the GCD as the next Mirror pops, but if the second Frostbolt procced BF, you've lost DPS by munching the proc. Moving the Frostbolt to the end of the chain, and thus inside the second MoT pop timer (ignoring shattering it), means you gain the benefit of the 250ms window if you double proc.

..and that's why I simplified it in the guide!

[Guest Ajnag]

There is an issue in the Best Legendaries tab, under the section: "7. What Slot Should Legendaries by Crafted For?",   it advises you to craft Slick Ice on a chest piece, however it can only be crafted to Legs or Belt.

[Kuni 28]

On 2/25/2022 at 9:09 AM, Guest Ajnag said:

There is an issue in the Best Legendaries tab, under the section: "7. What Slot Should Legendaries by Crafted For?",   it advises you to craft Slick Ice on a chest piece, however it can only be crafted to Legs or Belt.

Yep, good catch. I had Cold Front on the brain, I'll fix that. Should be legs.

[Guest Georgina]

Hey on the rotation page, I can't seem to find where should I Comet Storm on single target. Any advice would be very much appreciated. Should I hold it if I don't have a Brain Freeze proc or just use it on cooldown? 

[Kuni 28]

On 3/13/2022 at 10:55 PM, Guest Georgina said:

Hey on the rotation page, I can't seem to find where should I Comet Storm on single target. Any advice would be very much appreciated. Should I hold it if I don't have a Brain Freeze proc or just use it on cooldown? 

Yeah, hold it for Brain Freeze. When you've got full stacks of Slick Ice and have Icy Veins up, make sure that you space out your second Ice Lance into Winter's Chill with a Frostbolt. Better to Shatter the entire Comet Storm and a Frostbolt than lose half of it by Ice Lance ending the window early.

I could have sworn I sat down and added the Comet Storm toggle to rotation page, wtf.

[Guest Georgina]

I see, thank you. To confirm, I would have to go (with a Brain Freeze proc) Frostbolt > Flurry > Comet Storm > Ice Lance > Frostbolt? Should I also do the same if I see my 2 piece about to proc? 
 

[Kuni 28]

On 3/16/2022 at 12:02 AM, Guest Georgina said:

I see, thank you. To confirm, I would have to go (with a Brain Freeze proc) Frostbolt > Flurry > Comet Storm > Ice Lance > Frostbolt? Should I also do the same if I see my 2 piece about to proc? 
 

Pretty much. Sadly you can't see when 2p is about to proc, so you're relying a bit on snap reaction if it procs mid-Flurry combo.

[MaloDrex 0]

Hello,

TYSM for this neat frost mage guide! 😄

May I suggest to add a comment about Arcane Momentum in the « Blink/Shimmer » paragraph:
« Your Blink spell teleports you in the direction you are moving instead of the direction you are facing »?

The Blink/Shimmer behavior acts as a « switch » and can be changed by talking to the mage NPC at the Stormwind's portal room in mage tower.

[Kuni 28]

That is actually a very good point. I had forgotten about it since it's not particularly useful in most cases, but yeah I'll add a note!

[Guest Smexhy]

I am unable to import talent trees, it doesn't fit the whole string into the import text field. Did something change?

[Kuni 28]

On 10/29/2022 at 2:39 PM, Guest Smexhy said:

I am unable to import talent trees, it doesn't fit the whole string into the import text field. Did something change?

Cannot reproduce, just imported all three. I cannot help you without more information.

 

 

Even the line breaks and spacing doesn't break import.