wow Big Negativity, Toxicity and Criticism Commentary by Asmongold and Other Streamers

[Starym 3,776]

 

The recent Burning Crusade Classic pricing and release schedule announcements have been a pretty big powder keg of fan backlash, adding to the growing negativity and toxicity brewing in the WoW community (both Classic and retail). Now we have the most watched WoW streamer, Asmongold, talking about the situation with Blizzard, the monetization of the game and the increasing negativity and resignation from the community.

The main focus of the post is the supposed way the game mechanics are being used to extract more participation metrics from players instead of actually being solid mechanics in and of themselves, and that players/fans have mostly resigned themselves to that being the status quo. Pinning the issues on developer incompetence and/or purposeful design against player interests, as well as a lack of innovation, he goes on to detail some systems that are particularly troubling, elevating Legion to the last time there was real innovation happening. He closes with the reason for the post in the first place being his low of WoW, asking players to not accept sub-par systems just because that's what they've come to expect. 

The full post is well worth reading, and it also received several replies from other streamers/content creators, both agreeing to some of the points made and adding their own, and you can find them below. Also there is some somewhat explicit language in the below quote, so reader beware.

Quote

Recently, especially with the Burning Crusade announcement along with 9.1 PTR datamining, there has been a lot of negative sentiment in the WoW community. Today I want to talk about that sentiment regarding where it's come from and where I think it's going to go.

Ever since Vanilla WoW, there have always been "doomsayers" of the community.

"Burning Crusade killed WoW"

"WotLK turned the game into Casual EZ mode"

You know what I mean. You've seen it for years just like I have.

The feedback itself is always the same and it's never different however the tone as of late has changed. The former passionate righteous indignation followed by a 2000 word essay has faded away and been replaced with a resigned, defeated tweet. The anger is still there, but the hope behind it has been replaced by inevitability. When Warlords of Draenor turned out to be a disaster, the frustration came from a place of betrayal. How could Blizzard do this to us? Why is this happening?

Now, when Shadowlands systems like Soul Ash or Conduit Energy are coddled along despite resounding condemnation from the community, the feeling is no longer betrayal. It can't be, because betrayal requires trust and that trust was broken a long time ago.

Now, when I see a system like Conduit Energy kept in the game, I see it as another desperate attempt to exhume participation metrics from a dying playerbase.

Now, when I see a pop up that Burning Crusade is releasing less than a month from now, and Illidan's iconic "You are not prepared!" quote co-opted to sell ridiculously overpriced microtransations, I see the last bit of heart and soul of a game I love being drained away for a quarterly earnings report.

These things are so blatant in their disregard for the player experience that even the most resolute of Blizzard defenders have had to resort to saying that they don't care instead of trying to look on the bright side, because there is no bright side. They take pride in being taken advantage of, as if being able of afford a 70 dollar "micro"transaction is an accomplishment, as if it's not lining the pockets of executives who don't even know who Illidan is.

World of Warcraft used to be a game that made you want to waste your time. Now it's just a game that wastes your time.

Every system that's added into the game with obvious playtime extenders (corruption vendor rotation, losing Soul Ash when transferring to alts in 9.1, Conduit Energy, etc) do something that's much more insidious than just making people mad. They show the man behind the machine. The experience you have in the game, the time you spend is no longer the result of trials and tribulation inside of Azeroth but instead time-trials and tabulation inside the accounting department. The willing suspension of disbelief is shattered and the only thing that's left over is a poorly designed Skinner Box with an uninspired disguise.

Bellulargaming recently came up with the most beautiful metaphor for describing the way Blizzard designs it's systems. It's like eating a great salad, but there's a dick in the salad.

Blizzard, get the dicks out of our salad.

You can try to eat around it, put dressing on it, or pretend it's not there, but at the end of the day, there's a dick in the salad and everybody knows it.

To put it in more plain terms, stop making systems with obvious flaws. Stop waiting until the .2 or .3 patch of an expansion to implement QOL changes that were suggested in ALPHA. It's fucking ridiculous to think that we get fed obviously dysfunctional systems only to be hyped up later into coming back and paying more money so that we can play them properly.

I'm sick of it. I was willing to deal with this in Legion with Legendaries and I was less willing to deal with it in BFA with Azerite/Corruptions but now in Shadowlands I, along with many other people, no longer welcome QOL changes with excitement but instead with "about fucking time".

Human beings have evolved to see patterns, and I think everyone here sees the pattern.

There are two realities in which this can occur. The first, is that the developers are genuinely incompetent. They actually have no idea how players will interact with their systems and that they honestly need 6 months of failure points to come to the same conclusion that the playerbase came to during Alpha. The second reality is that they're doing it on purpose, they intentionally withhold QOL changes and obvious improvements in order to artificially extend gametime and boost performance metrics without actually having to create new content but instead just making existing content take longer.

The truth is that I don't think that it's the first or the second, I think it's both.

The developers lack the humility to give the playerbase what they want, and when they do, they lack the insight to give them what they need.

The developers identify problems that players don't have, then implement solutions to those problems that players don't want.

In Battle for Azeroth, I really tried to be more diplomatic with how I talked about the systems and state of the game but at this point I'm so fucking tired man. It's exhausting. The funny thing is that this is a very general post, but I could literally make a post this long about any number of systems in the game and their lazy and deserved decline. How many reskins of the Gorm mount do we need? Why do we need to do 20 of the same world quest for an achievement? Why do Shadowlands rares only drop their unique items for people of that loot class when most people want the transmog universally? Why?

Here's why. It's because instead of innovating the game, Blizzard has mired themselves down into micromanaging expansion-specific systems. Imagine how hard it is to balance all of that, I don't envy the life of a WoW dev at all! However, it was not my decision to make character balance in WoW have more unnecessary complexities than a Rube Goldberg machine.

Blizzard wants to reinvent the wheel every expansion, and they do. But they don't make a wheel, they make a hoverboard instead. Then during the entire expansion, we spend our time worrying about how will it fly? What fuel will the hoverboard use? How can we have a seatbelt for the hoverboard? We waste our time trying to design the perfect hoverboard for each expansion, we get halfway there by the end of it, then we throw that hoverboard away and work on a new one. All at the same time that the playerbase is just asking for a better wheel.

Micromanaging these systems is coming at the cost of genuine innovation. The last time the game had REAL innovation was in Legion. Now, almost all our systems are lesser derivatives of their Legion counterparts. Covenants are innovation to an extent as well. We need NEW ideas. not the same 8 ideas and each expansion we get to pick 5 of them.

Torghast is a great example of this. Torghast is currently at 5% of it's potential and 9.1 is looking to push that number up to somewhere around 15% of it's potential. Wake the fuck up and take some risks! Look at the incredible design of the Mage Tower bosses and then compare them with the Corrupted Trash Can of a boss we have to look forward to in 9.1. What the fuck happened?

Torghast is supposed to be a Roguelike, a new experience, but the only thing its been is like a Roguelike. 9.1 is a good start but it needs to come faster, and it needs to be better.

Nearly every aspect of the game is suffering from lack of innovation, least of all raids (from my opinion). Raids are and have been the one thing that Blizzard has not stopped innovating and developing in better and better ways. I'm always excited for a new raid or dungeon in WoW, but WoW shouldn't all just be raids and dungeons.

The reason I'm sitting here writing this past midnight is not because I'm negative about the game, it's the opposite. It's because fucking love the game. That's why I care so much and I want it to get better. This game has been a huge part of my life for the past 15 years and I'll dammed if I leave it at that without a fight. I WANT to play it for the next 15 years, even now, in the Shadowlands content drought, I still log in every single day and do the little activities that I enjoy.

That's why I don't unsub. It's very simple, it's because I still enjoy the game. While the negatives are present, so are the positives, and there are more positives. The reason I'm frustrated and angry is because I know it can be so much better. I know it and many of you out there do too and I'm sick of pretending like I don't. We got a taste of what the potential of WoW is with Legion, now imagine if that level of innovation and inspiration carried into BFA and now into Shadowlands. I'd never leave the house, and I'd be proud of it!

To the Blizzard developers: Stop fucking us around and stop fucking around and start making the game that we KNOW you can make. Get the dicks out of the salad. Give us something worth wanting. It doesn't matter how a system "should" work, it matters how it makes a player feel. Stop releasing dysfunctional systems then add QOL improvements later on as "content".

To the players: Stop accepting dogshit. You're better than that and so are the developers. There is no pride in having your time wasted. Stop trying to look on the bright side, you shouldn't have to, there shouldn't have been a dark side to begin with.

This has been quite a long post but I've had this on my mind for a long time, especially after the 9.1 PTR and Burning Crusade announcement, so I really appreciate anyone who has made it this far. Thank you.

First off, there's this short discussion with Towelliee on the impact of streamers on the situation:

But we aren't though, they lost 30% of their playerbase DURING CORONA and turned it into a W because they were able to make up the difference with microtransactions

It's almost worse if people stop playing

— Zack (@Asmongold) May 9, 2021

We are. Everytime we play. Everytime we mention these micro transactions we remind people they are there. How do I play with Asmongold in TBC? How do I play with Towelliee? Or Sloot? Well lemme buy that Dark Portal pass. Let me get that sexy boost. Our passion drives them sales.

— Towelliee (@towelthetank) May 9, 2021

Then Sloot jumped in to add another factor missing from the discussion:

I really feel often they want to commit more to things like Torghast, but just can’t, while dealing with all the other shit

I think this seems ridiculous historically thinking about the mighty Blizz being understaffed but corporate influence from Activision has been so obvious

— Ted Bacinschi (@Slootbag) May 9, 2021

And LeysTV adding what might be good additions:

Honestly I think the game needs more casual stuff like transmog. New rewards that people can farm. Mounts/transmog/pets/achievement points are good and all. But we need something new. The mechagon mount stuff was cool but they didnt fully explore its potentials.

— Leyst (@LeystTv) May 10, 2021

 

On a personal note I don't think things are quite as grim as Asmongold states, but there is a definite trend to the increasing focus on player activity metric-boosting content. However, as Shadowlands is, by and large, significantly better than BfA, there is a general upward quality trend which seems to get ignored by similar negative posts. However, posts like this are certainly a good thing, as prominent WoW personalities speak up and share their thoughts, especially when those thoughts are shared by a large part of the community, as hopefully Blizzard can take note and at least partially address them. The communication throughout Shadowlands' development has felt a little off or perhaps even insincere, as each new Ion Hazzikostas interview is usually met with many comments simply not believing the arguments he gives for decisions made. And so one of the things we can hope for is either some better transparency for the real reasons behind certain systems (hi Conduit energy, power tied to Covenants and more) or some actual changes to them. WoW has been through a lot, and despite so many death announcements from both within the WoW community and outside it, it'll take a lot to take the game down, so there's still time to improve and at least bring back a feeling of trust in its direction for a large part of the player base.

[Dreamcatcher 65]

Asmongold is an idiot. He barely plays WoW nowadays and he is not good at it either. Not PVP not PVE. He knows nothing about new systems not even classes. I remember back in BFA this guy was talking *filtered* about the game and one of his major claims were "Blizzard suck at balancing classes. Look here they nerfed Thunderclap for 30%." and i laughed. It was obvious poor guy didn't know how OP Thunderclap was back then and it was obvious for everybody who actually was playing the game that it was going to be nerfed because on some fights you couldn't outdps Prot Warrior. All of this while i know balance of classes need more work and should be better its not end of the world either. You can play every classes you like and choose every covenant you want and still accomplish every content in the game. He said many thing is years and i just thing most of his words is based on his lack of knowledge on expansions. Because you need to play and learn about new systems ingame and you should understand and be good at it to be able to make comments on them. And honestly i can't imagine someone hate Legion expansion for me it was the BEST but anyway he made some good points too while trying to look everything grim and dead. It is not.

Shadowlands is an awesome expansion with a few major problems. It is really fun most of the times. I had lots of fun leveling my characters. I liked conduit system but not energy. New raid was amazing. Dungeons were cool. There are many thing about Shadowlands you can fall in love too. Waiting almost 6 months for new contents and major patch is not one of them tho. 9.1 looks really good and it has some of players suggested changes which is really good thing. Blizzard hears players voices. Sometimes?!

I strongly disagree with those price tags for BC Deluxe and services. Way too high and unrealistic. Even game services prices in the Blizzard shop is high and just imagine those services mostly done automated and you don't need any staff members.

But about those problems that were pointed out in Alpha and players who tested the game mentioned them in different ways.

Now question is : Blizzard don't care and those ideas about participation metrics is true? or this is because of lack of staff and resources and if later is true then Blizzard or better if i say Activition-Blizzard should pump more resources toward WoW because this game success will never be repeated in next millennia. This players i see everyday playing this lovely game some of them since they were just child or teenagers really deserve love. As a community WoW accomplished many great feats.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Dreamcatcher

[calledyouout 16]

1 hour ago, Dreamcatcher said:

Shadowlands is an awesome expansion with a few major problems. It is really fun most of the times. I had lots of fun leveling my characters. I liked conduit system but not energy. New raid was amazing. Dungeons were cool. There are many thing about Shadowlands you can fall in love too. Waiting almost 6 months for new contents and major patch is not one of them tho. 9.1 looks really good and it has some of players suggested changes which is really good thing. Blizzard hears players voices. Sometimes?!

Few major problems?

From an end game perspective there were many many prolems.  Loot was scarce in raids to a point were if you wanted to actually gear up you were better off skipping raids to do so.  "New raid was amazing?" I beg to differ, it looks good but a first raid with 10 bosses where there are only 4 good ones. I have to assume you have only done normal or cleared the raid a month or two ago to have that opinion. Either that or it is your first raiding experience.

[Badadada 184]

Imho this is just another iteration of the global pricing issue the whole videogame and software industry always had. In-game services are probably priced appropriately for Texas and California, not necessarily for most of Europe, South-America and other parts of the planet and clearly there isn't enough flexibility. I don't think this really affects the live version of WoW, Shadowlands release was far above expectations (especially in the light of the Cyberpunk 2077 incident), even though we ended up with a longer than expected content drought, but it's really not that bad, in the end Blizzard always delivers.

 

12 minutes ago, calledyouout said:

Loot was scarce in raids to a point were if you wanted to actually gear up you were better off skipping raids to do so.

I believe that was to even the gearing curve of PvE and PvP players. An often heard criticism from the PvP community is that they have to go farming raids and M+ if they want to be competitive in arenas.

[joshelloco 2]

28 minutes ago, calledyouout said:

Few major problems?

From an end game perspective there were many many prolems.  Loot was scarce in raids to a point were if you wanted to actually gear up you were better off skipping raids to do so.  "New raid was amazing?" I beg to differ, it looks good but a first raid with 10 bosses where there are only 4 good ones. I have to assume you have only done normal or cleared the raid a month or two ago to have that opinion. Either that or it is your first raiding experience.

You wanna know who advocated this loot system? Asmongold he fully endorsed no titan forging, no bonus rolls and less loot. Essentially he wanted classic wow in retail and its horrible I loved a lot of loot in 8,3 now I get next to none and the pvp I love to do is all about gear and not skill which asmon also supported gear being important in pvp.

[Boothyp 48]

This situation is actually so complicated and subjective, based largely on opinions, it's almost impossible to get to a decent solution.

WoW has so varied a player base, with so many wishes, it's impossible to keep everyone happy!

I (personally) think Shadowlands has some good things, and several bad things. I compare it to a quality lake, that is only 2 foot deep.

I think Blizz is too focused on data, and occasionally listens to some people, but some people is a percentage of the player base, so chances are more people will be pissed.

I've unsubbed a while ago. Bored. I'll come back for 9.1, play until bored, then un-sub!

[wowmachine 4]

As a player who aims to be in the top 100 rio, gets CE every patch, my opinion is that shadowlands is not finished expansion. I main tank in m+ and before the tank buffs I don't even want to tell you how much I hated shadowlands. Above 21, every single dungeon I have to kite 80% of the time, I have a feeling I don't play the game, I just jump around and wait for my team to kill the packs and the only thing I can do is throw some sigils and glaives. I don't even want to talk about the AoE cap. But after the buffs the game is much more enjoyable and you don't have to play dh only. BFA dungeons were better than SL, sorry if you are from the people who hate BFA no matter what. Castle Nathria is decent, but SLG is just too annoying and I don't even want to reclear it ever again (Council is annoying too, but not that much) .

Another thing is that if you want to have decent gear, you HAVE TO raid or do pvp. As a player who played pvp for 10 years I don't have a problem with getting full 226 pvp gear, but other people don't have choice. Even though they don't like doing pvp and they don't like to invest time in getting good in pvp, because they just don't like it, they either have to git gut or have to pay for a boost. That's not a good system design. I don't even want to talk about the covenant swaps in order to switch between pvp and pve, dh tanks know the pain. The lack of gear from m+ is making the game annoying, the vault won't gear you to 226 if you want to play only m+ (well depends on luck).  

Even though BFA had those azerite gear issues, prot warrior dominating for almost the whole expansion, and the heart, essences grind, I had a lot more fun in BFA than in the first patch of SL. I hope that Blizzard AND the community will find a solution to fix the problems the current systems have, I know hundreds of people who stopped playing, because of covenants and pvp being the main source for getting gear in order to play m+.

Edited May 10, 2021 by wowmachine

[Dejo93 984]

It's not even devs that are the problem, but the corporate scumbags who want to wring every nickle and dime from the customers. I don't envy people like Ion on their position at all.

[Znifler 58]

1 hour ago, calledyouout said:

Few major problems?

From an end game perspective there were many many prolems.  Loot was scarce in raids to a point were if you wanted to actually gear up you were better off skipping raids to do so.  "New raid was amazing?" I beg to differ, it looks good but a first raid with 10 bosses where there are only 4 good ones. I have to assume you have only done normal or cleared the raid a month or two ago to have that opinion. Either that or it is your first raiding experience.

Well I enjoy it alot.

[durdyenglish 298]

Shadowlands is not a perfect expansion, but it is a good expansion. It's also an expansion that was (partially) built, then launched and maintained remotely during a pandemic. I can only imagine the amount of strain that has put on the process.

I'm honestly impressed the expansion has been as good as it has been considering the circumstance, but I also have to admit that there are times it comes off as underwhelming despite all the great parts of it. It feels like the time between launch and first patch contributes to a lot of this feeling as I'm sure we weren't meant to go this long on this content. 

I wish that they got some of these systems right from the gate, but I also understand what it's like to try to do something as a team/committee. People act like Ion sits in a room like the weird guy from Grandma's Boy, coding WOW all by himself. These decisions are made by a group, with multiple points of insight and compromise. A lot of times, Blizzard does end up making a camel instead of a horse, but it's always something you can ride more dependably than others. To be clear before going further, I think they can do better, I just think sometimes doing better is harder than we give it credit for.

Truth be told, the problems at Blizzard are pretty industry wide, but the product coming out of the studio is still of higher quality than most. Look around, every popular game is a similar state, and many of them are riddled with (far more) overt bugs and other issues. Dev teams are universally understaffed and underfunded, up against ridiculous deadlines, and expected to create content that is universally appealing AND turns a profit. Impossible.

That WOW still feels as good as it does, in spite of the issues with development times and microtransactions (which players show they will pay for or they wouldn't even be offered), is pretty fortunate. Its a 16 year old game in a (almost) dead genre that still manages to earn hand-over-fist.

There has been a lot of changes based on player feedback already but people are only getting more angry. I don't understand why after all the concessions they've already made how someone can feel more entitled for more changes.

I also don't really understand what the community even wants from this game anymore. I look around at other ARPGs, MMOs, and games in general and I'm not sure the grass is greener anywhere. I think sometimes that people have just played too long and may be just done with the game, but unwilling to let go or blame themselves for that because they can't admit they've moved on from such an emotional attachment.

WOW still wants to call back to a day when progress took time, but players want something that provides the instant gratification all the other quick-loadout action games provide. RPGs as a concept are increasingly nonviable as they require patience and consequence to be effective, neither of which interest the modern gamer.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by durdyenglish

[Mythicdruid 6]

Yes, WoW is Free-to-Play but also Pay-to-Win. They hook you with the "Buy game/expansion" just to free-to-play it. Then once you are hooked, they start charging you with the sub fees and all. Next step is to make virtual products that look good enough for you to want to buy them too. Each time you buy a virtual product, you get sucked in more. Then they start making inferior products to entice you further to buy and before you know it, Activision/Blizzard has so blinded you with all these 'new and improved' game graphics and items, that people have become blind to all the flaws. 

It's like putting a lobster in a pot of water, then slowly turning up the heat, making them feel warm and comfortable. The lobster gets use to the temperature that they don't realize they are getting boiled to death. 

No, thank you. I pass.

[skz129 7]

4 hours ago, Dreamcatcher said:

Asmongold is an idiot. He barely plays WoW nowadays and he is not good at it either. Not PVP not PVE. He knows nothing about new systems not even classes. I remember back in BFA this guy was talking *filtered* about the game and one of his major claims were "Blizzard suck at balancing classes. Look here they nerfed Thunderclap for 30%." and i laughed. It was obvious poor guy didn't know how OP Thunderclap was back then and it was obvious for everybody who actually was playing the game that it was going to be nerfed because on some fights you couldn't outdps Prot Warrior. All of this while i know balance of classes need more work and should be better its not end of the world either. You can play every classes you like and choose every covenant you want and still accomplish every content in the game. He said many thing is years and i just thing most of his words is based on his lack of knowledge on expansions. Because you need to play and learn about new systems ingame and you should understand and be good at it to be able to make comments on them. And honestly i can't imagine someone hate Legion expansion for me it was the BEST but anyway he made some good points too while trying to look everything grim and dead. It is not.

Shadowlands is an awesome expansion with a few major problems. It is really fun most of the times. I had lots of fun leveling my characters. I liked conduit system but not energy. New raid was amazing. Dungeons were cool. There are many thing about Shadowlands you can fall in love too. Waiting almost 6 months for new contents and major patch is not one of them tho. 9.1 looks really good and it has some of players suggested changes which is really good thing. Blizzard hears players voices. Sometimes?!

I strongly disagree with those price tags for BC Deluxe and services. Way too high and unrealistic. Even game services prices in the Blizzard shop is high and just imagine those services mostly done automated and you don't need any staff members.

But about those problems that were pointed out in Alpha and players who tested the game mentioned them in different ways.

Now question is : Blizzard don't care and those ideas about participation metrics is true? or this is because of lack of staff and resources and if later is true then Blizzard or better if i say Activition-Blizzard should pump more resources toward WoW because this game success will never be repeated in next millennia. This players i see everyday playing this lovely game some of them since they were just child or teenagers really deserve love. As a community WoW accomplished many great feats.

Your very first statement just shows your bias instantly and that you didn't even attempt to read what he said because it was so objectively correct it's sickening.  Your post is just bad and wrong.

[skz129 7]

53 minutes ago, durdyenglish said:

Shadowlands is not a perfect expansion, but it is a good expansion. It's also an expansion that was (partially) built, then launched and maintained remotely during a pandemic. I can only imagine the amount of strain that has put on the process.

I'm honestly impressed the expansion has been as good as it has been considering the circumstance, but I also have to admit that there are times it comes off as underwhelming despite all the great parts of it. It feels like the time between launch and first patch contributes to a lot of this feeling as I'm sure we weren't meant to go this long on this content. 

I wish that they got some of these systems right from the gate, but I also understand what it's like to try to do something as a team/committee. People act like Ion sits in a room like the weird guy from Grandma's Boy, coding WOW all by himself. These decisions are made by a group, with multiple points of insight and compromise. A lot of times, Blizzard does end up making a camel instead of a horse, but it's always something you can ride more dependably than others. To be clear before going further, I think they can do better, I just think sometimes doing better is harder than we give it credit for.

Truth be told, the problems at Blizzard are pretty industry wide, but the product coming out of the studio is still of higher quality than most. Look around, every popular game is a similar state, and many of them are riddled with (far more) overt bugs and other issues. Dev teams are universally understaffed and underfunded, up against ridiculous deadlines, and expected to create content that is universally appealing AND turns a profit. Impossible.

That WOW still feels as good as it does, in spite of the issues with development times and microtransactions (which players show they will pay for or they wouldn't even be offered), is pretty fortunate. Its a 16 year old game in a (almost) dead genre that still manages to earn hand-over-fist.

There has been a lot of changes based on player feedback already but people are only getting more angry. I don't understand why after all the concessions they've already made how someone can feel more entitled for more changes.

I also don't really understand what the community even wants from this game anymore. I look around at other ARPGs, MMOs, and games in general and I'm not sure the grass is greener anywhere. I think sometimes that people have just played too long and may be just done with the game, but unwilling to let go or blame themselves for that because they can't admit they've moved on from such an emotional attachment.

WOW still wants to call back to a day when progress took time, but players want something that provides the instant gratification all the other quick-loadout action games provide. RPGs as a concept are increasingly nonviable as they require patience and consequence to be effective, neither of which interest the modern gamer.

 

 

It is not a good expansion.  All objective factual metrics show that.

Edited May 10, 2021 by skz129

[GBeast 33]

1 hour ago, Znifler said:

Well I enjoy it alot.

you can enjoy it but that doesn't mean it isn't rife with issues.

[Elfomal 55]

I feel they just need to take some steps back and re-evaluate everything.

 

I really hate the current class balance and how meta-*** infected wow. And the difference from some class / specs / covenant is so big, that  i dont even blame then anymore.

 

Please, first of all, balance the core of the classes, make em enjoying to play, make the core system work, it feels that since BFA wow has no core at all, i dont feel hyped about how BFA did, neither about shadowlands. The grind it takes to be ok its just dumb, overall classes unbalanced, covenant system, legendary system, conduit (and with conduit, i mean also the fkin grind it takes to get em leveled up), gearing feeling a lot slower than it was before, professions feeling almost useless, beside legendary crafting, for god sake, step back, see what people like, what they hate most, and balance what else is needed. THEN after this, you can start doing some borrowed power stuff and some torghast-like experiment.

 

Also, this is something i dont see people doing on wow by a long long ago, and i mean, being social.

[Elfomal 55]

1 hour ago, durdyenglish said:

I'm honestly impressed the expansion has been as good as it has been considering the circumstance, but I also have to admit that there are times it comes off as underwhelming despite all the great parts of it. It feels like the time between launch and first patch contributes to a lot of this feeling as I'm sure we weren't meant to go this long on this content. 

Sorry, but its not like they were building a bridge.

 

Most of their work can be done away from each other, even home office if needed, internet / digital reunions / screen sharing made all those kind of 'need to be at the office' a lot less realistic setting.

[sckhar 14]

I personally am not of a fan of Asmongold and I think both he and his community do more damage to the game than good, however he is spot on this time. I've been saying these things for quite some time now, Blizzard only cares for metrics, it's not a game made to be fun anymore, it's made to inflate their metrics so their little reports at the end of the month look pretty, ironically it's always the asmontards in the forum that are quick to dismiss it all and say if you complain you're a hater.

 

 

[fmneto 0]

I think it's f#$%ng HILARIOUS that Asmongold, of all people, is complaining about toxicity and negativity in World of Warcraft.

Of all people, especially streamers, he is the single one that has had the biggest impact on it, due to his massive following. And he is the one that has been the most negative about WoW. He is the one who has tolerated inappropriate behavior from his own followers, he is the one that has lashed out inane complaints about the game "catering to casuals", he is the one who was so negative about the game that he got burned out so hard that he spent weeks streaming himself doing gardening.

Sorry if I don't care for what he has to say anymore.

[Grumar 185]

2 hours ago, Boothyp said:

This situation is actually so complicated and subjective, based largely on opinions, it's almost impossible to get to a decent solution.

WoW has so varied a player base, with so many wishes, it's impossible to keep everyone happy!

I (personally) think Shadowlands has some good things, and several bad things. I compare it to a quality lake, that is only 2 foot deep.

I think Blizz is too focused on data, and occasionally listens to some people, but some people is a percentage of the player base, so chances are more people will be pissed.

I've unsubbed a while ago. Bored. I'll come back for 9.1, play until bored, then un-sub!

I would argue there is plenty objective bad ideas in game, conduit energy, either it doesn't effect you or it effects you negativly, there is no reason for something that can only hurt players experience to be in game.

[Dreamcatcher 65]

 

1 hour ago, skz129 said:

It is not a good expansion.  All objective factual metrics show that.

More than 30M active players for Blizzard platform at the launch and 26M by end of season one ?

Breaking WoW all time subbed and active players count record?

Being fastest-selling PC game of all time only to be beaten by Cyberpunk2077?

Where do you get your "factual" metrics? Asmongold-Metrics.com?!

[solitha 84]

1 hour ago, skz129 said:

It is not a good expansion.  All objective factual metrics show that.

I'm curious. What objective factual metrics? Let's see them.

[ashishkumarji 0]

he goes on to detail some systems that are particularly troubling, elevating Legion to the last time there was real innovation happening. He closes with the reason for the post in the first place being his low of WoW, asking players to not accept sub-par systems just because that's what they've come to expect.

Edited May 10, 2021 by ashishkumarji
spelling

[Sookeh 1]

 Breh, once you do KSM or the raid tier you want to clear there was nothing else to do in the game.  So you play Russian roulette with the loot system do 10m+ 14-15 for the vault you get shat on with the same item  choice as last week  and to make the grind worse once that 9.1 pops all the gear is going to be worthless 😕. Then you get forced on what you can do. Specially if you decide to go rogue from meta covenant/ legendary. Should of just make a legendary  piece per class save you the trouble of making useless ones.  Covenant wise you get *filtered* by picking one side to raid but oh *filtered* it’s worthless for m+  better yet for pvp. You lock that player from doing other stuff🙄 cause you know the game is so cookie 🍪 cutter that if you don’t do meta covenant/ legendary mix you will probably get *filtered* or encounter toxic behavior from others. It’s bad design everywhere you step on the game.

[Halock 156]

6 hours ago, Dreamcatcher said:

I strongly disagree with those price tags for BC Deluxe and services. Way too high and unrealistic. Even game services prices in the Blizzard shop is high and just imagine those services mostly done automated and you don't need any staff members.

I feel this is rarely thought through. All Blizzard shop items -- services and mounts and etc -- are overpriced. This isn't a new thing. Back in late Cata (early Mists?) you could buy a transmog helmet for £10. That's more than the monthly sub over here. For a single helmet.

People default to saying that this must be 'greed'. The quote above is quite right, they don't need to be that high. P2W games would price them at 1/10 the price. So Blizzard prices them so high because they're addicted to money at all costs, right? I don't think that's so.

They could, surely, sell more by pricing them so the majority of people would buy them. These TBC services are a great example. They've priced them so high it's created massive discontent. Lots of people will refuse to buy them on principle. Far more (like me) will refuse to buy them simply because they're too expensive, never mind the principle. If they priced them reasonably everybody, almost literally everybody, who played Classic would buy one.

And there'd be no discontent, right? Well --

I don't think so. I think they price things so highly to preserve the value of ingame effort. I think the transmog helms were £10 so nobody would ever feel their raid transmogs were devalued. I think mounts are £20 so it's never 'easier' to get a cool mount through the store than ingame. It's also worth noticing the designs of store items are kinda weird. They'd sell loads more transmog if it looked like Mythic sets as opposed to large fluffy creatures. But it doesn't.

And I suspect these TBC services are way high so they're not the normal. So it doesn't feel like an obligatory purchase. 

And I think much of the discontent comes not just from a perception that Blizzard are greedy (although some does, I think) but from the fact a great many people want to buy these services, perhaps feel if they don't buy them it's a disadvantage to them. But to do so they're looking at a horrible price tag.

But it's a rough situation. What do you do? Make them free? That'd do funny things, I suspect. Not quite sure in the TBC case, but it can be seen with other shop services. They're priced so highly to discourage people from changing their name every other day, say. So perhaps price the services lowly? It feels like an obligatory purchase. Price them highly so the option is there but it's not commonplace? Plenty of people who wanted it are disgruntled. 

[Halock 156]

1 hour ago, ashishkumarji said:

elevating Legion to the last time there was real innovation happening.

I disagree with what seems to me rose-tinted viewing of Legion these days, but when you put it this way it is kind of true. Legion established a formula which worked. BFA and Shadowlands have merely carried it on.