Krylian

Assassination Rogue Assistance

11 posts in this topic

Hi Icy Veins - 

 

Long time lurker, first time poster.  I was recently made an officer of my guild and tasked with helping up the DPS.  We're a casual guild that isn't looking to be first in hardcore progression but we've managed a respectable 5/14H raiding 3 nights a week.  Unfortunately I've always had an aversion to melee DPS myself and I'm struggling to help our rogue who consistently at or near the bottom of the meters sometimes even below tanks.

 

Profile

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/doomhammer/Ryudeath/advanced 

 

 

Recent Logs

 

H Gal attempts / Norm Kill

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zLmk3rTvtDBRhVFn 

 

 

H Imm - H Sha

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rBXDa8kMy3QdA9V1

 

 

I've walked him through Shadowcraft, gone over logs with him and asked that he focus on keeping up SnD, Rupture, and Envenom and he was doing good for awhile.  I didn't delve into the nuances of Tricks or other items because I wanted him to get back to the basics.  He even downloaded a trainer mod (Assassin?) to help him with his rotation and that jumped him up in the DPS.  

 

But overall I feel like there's something missing that he is generally lower than others in the raid.  He's seems open to suggestions asking that I tell him what is wrong so he can fix it, but I need some professional input from the experts!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's what I'm seeing.

 

Shadowcraft audit: His gems are not optimal, and with new gems his reforging could change a bit. However, it would cost thousands of gold to change every gem in his gear for what appears to be a sub-1k damage per second increase. I would say it isn't worth it, but that's up to you.

 

Sha of Pride log: The number one blaring red flag problem is that he is not switching to Dispatch when the boss is at 35% health. This is a major DPS loss. Have him remove Dispatch from his bars and use the following macro instead of Mutilate. You will see a big DPS jump.

 

#showtooltip Dispatch
/startattack
/castsequence reset=0.2 1, Mutilate;
/castsequence reset=0.2 Dispatch;
 
Other stuff for Sha of Pride:
 
Rupture: 80% uptime. This is low for the Assassination spec. With Slice and Dice refreshing itself and no other timer ability to worry about, this number should be closer to 95%. He did get picked for Corrupted Prison a lot in this kill, but he should be looking at the boss timer for this ability and getting a good Rupture on in case he is debuffed.
 
Envenom: 41% uptime. From what I can tell he is not clipping this buff, but there are strangely long gaps in the buff as well. There's a few 20 second gaps, a couple 30 second gaps, and a stretch of over 1 minute that he did not gain the Envenom buff (which was during Time Warp). That's a big problem.
 
Tricks of the Trade: I know you told him not to worry about it, but it's not a hard ability to use in a mostly effective way. There are very complicated ways to optimize your Tricks usage, but the easiest way is to use the following macro along with a power aura:
 
/cast [target=focus] Tricks of the Trade
 
Set focus to the best DPS and the raid's damage will be higher.
 
He used Recuperate, Fan of Knives and Shiv in this fight as well. Recuperate is far too costly to use in a raid situation, Shiv has no place on Sha of Pride, and unless your raid is seriously hurting for AoE damage on the add spawns, he shouldn't bother AoE'ing at all. Other classes are far better at maintaining single target DPS while AoE'ing than rogues are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Krush.  I've been reading all of your posts here and on your guild site trying to find answers.  I even dusted off my rogue and followed your advice to make sure I understood the rotation before I chatted with him.

 

One question on the macro though.  If I'm reading it right it will cast mutilate unless the boss is low health in which case it switches to dispatch.  How does that work with blindside procs?  Will it automatically use up the proc even is the boss is above 25% before it attempts mutilate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All the macro will do is try to cast Dispatch before it tries to cast Mutilate. This works because Dispatch is unusable unless there is a Blindside proc or the boss is sub 35% health. Therefore, it will use Dispatch on both Blindside procs and sub-35% target health.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok.  I'm an idiot and forgot about that "little" nuance to dispatch.  This is what happens when I try to review logs on break at work instead of at home when I have my alt toon up to look at all of the buttons and tooltips.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heh, don't worry. You can't be expected to know everything about every class, that's resources like Icy Veins are out there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man, Krush is all over this.

 

Another thing that I'd look at is energy capping.  I've looked at Sha for this, pinning the mechanics that can disable someone to his energy pool.  You can see that most of the time capping wasn't their fault, but there are at least 5 times in which it is their fault.

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rBXDa8kMy3QdA9V1#type=resources&source=6&pins=0%24Main%24%23244F4B%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24183083.0.0.Rogue%24false%24144574%5E0%24Main%24%23909049%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24183083.0.0.Rogue%24false%24145215&spell=103

 

From looking at their IJ attempts, I think they may be better than you're thinking, with Sha just being a poor fight.  Check out this attempt:

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rBXDa8kMy3QdA9V1#type=auras&source=6&fight=6&start=2124020&end=2265013

 

SnD on the first spender.

71% Enven time

8/8 Blindside procs

Good Vendetta usage.

93% Rupture, including clipping the last 3 seconds (good thing), with the only downtime being because of applying SnD.

 

Now here's what I don't get.

 

Why were they using the DS legendary daggers for Galakras?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the last couple of months, I've seen some good improvement in his uptimes, but things still feel low to me compared to other rogue logs I review.  I got on him (and all the dps) last night because most dps weren't switching to the adds on Heroic Malkorok and I saw a big dip in his numbers from switching.  He insists that switching to adds on any fight (Immerseus, Sha, Nazgrim, Malkorok) is bad for rogues.  I also noticed he's not even using the two-piece bonus anymore.  Is the bonus not worth it I know he has the heroic tier chest and I think the hands as well as normal tier for everything else.  Any ideas or suggestions I can go back to him with?  I've asked him to review the great forums here but I don't think he does.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/doomhammer/Ryudeath/simple

 

Logs from the past week
 
(H Malkorok wipes)
 
 
 
(H Shamans and Naz)
 
 
 
(H Noru thru Iron Jugg)
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Switching targets can be a huge problem. But it can also increase DPS in the right circumstances. The biggest issue is combo points. They're currently fixed on the target.

 

If I'm fighting Boss A and get 5 combo points, then switch to Add B, the 5 combo points are still on A. I can use Redirect to move them to B, and essentially carry on my rotation as if nothing happened. If the add will be alive for a little while, I can get another Rupture going, which will proc alongside the Rupture I should have on the boss, giving me more energy back (through Venomous Wounds procs), and with the Glyph of Redirect I'll be able to use Redirect again after 10 seconds, so I won't lose combo points from the add.

 

Of course, if things are dying incredibly fast, it can be tough to know how far to go with building combo points and getting bleeds up. I'd say it comes with some experience. You should quickly get a feel for whether it's worth getting a 3-point Rupture going, or if you should just build 5 and Envenom and then move on.

 

For Spoils of Pandaria, which is essentially a non-stop add-fest, Marked For Death is a nice talent to use. It instantly applies 5 combo points to the target, and if the target dies within 1 minute the CD is reset. It has a 1 minute CD anyway, so if the target doesn't die within 1 minute, you get to use it again on that target. For all the smaller adds, it means you should be able to move more smoothly between mobs without worrying about having to build combo points every time.

Works well for Phase 1 of Galakras, too.

 

Switching targets efficiently and effectively is more a matter of adapting to that style of play.

 

The Malkorok log shows he was playing as combat. Which explains his gems and reforging. He seems to be using the same gear for both specs. It's not optimal for assassination.

 

According to Shadowcraft, using the HC tier chest over the HC Warforged non-tier is an upgrade of about 4%. The 2-set bonus is quite strong. The 4-set bonus could probably be ignored in favour of a HC WF non-tier piece.

 

Looking at the logs (I'm not an expert here)...

 

I see Crimson Tempest and Garrote on all of them, and Shiv on all but one.

 

Garrote is a silence/bleed which can only be used from stealth. Venomous Wounds will proc from it (it ticks every 3 seconds) but not if Rupture is already on the target, which it should be. Rupture ticks every 2 seconds, and with 5 combo points lasts longer. If he's restealthing, he should be using Mutilate (or Ambush - but Mutilate has a chance to proc Blindside). The silence effect is unlikely to work on bosses. Maybe on adds, but I haven't come across anything I've had to interrupt that I couldn't use Kick for.

 

For some reason, he keeps using Vanish-Garrote.

 

Crimson Tempest is a fairly poor AoE attack. It costs combo points and also causes a bleed effect. It doesn't need to be used, especially not on Iron Juggernaut.

 

Shiv is okay for stunning/interrupting (depending on the non-lethal poison applied). And it's good for dispelling enrage effects (e.g. jailer on Thok or the mantid mobs that enrage). Personally, if I need to stun a mob, I use Kidney Shot with the Prey on the Weak talent, which means the stunned mob now takes more damage from ALL sources. It's useful for the Fractures on Galakras, stopping the adds on Immerseus, and killing adds on Nazgrim quickly.

 

The other thing, which was mentioned before, is the use of Dispatch. He still doesn't seem to be using it during the last 35%. 

 

He's using a potion a few seconds into the fight, rather than pre-potting. 

 

I don't know enough about the logs to judge things like energy capping or envenom clipping or any of the little nuances like that. But definitely have him look at his Dispatch usage. There are probably a lot of ways of keeping track of it, but I use WeakAuras and have it set up so that my target's health switches from a red bar to a green bar once it's below 35%, so I can instantly see when I can start using Dispatch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on the old post vs the new one, it looks like your rogue hasn't changed much at all. Ryudeath still has bad rotation habits, and still has strange ability usage counts. Target switching is the first thing you need to learn how to do as a raiding DPS; those who ignore or dismiss that do not have the success of the raid in mind. It's true that Assassination spec will have a higher damage meter if they never switch targets, nearly every class DPS spec would be, the boss also won't die. Talk to him about that first, and if he wants to learn how to target switch properly for each spec we can help there.

 

The 2pc bonus is better to keep than switching from a normal to a heroic piece as far as I know, but I can't confirm that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the input, I didn't realize until last night when I got a chance to dig deeper that he had switched from Assassination to Combat mid raid to give it a try without changing gear, etc.  Had I realized that I wouldn't have even asked for a review.  Looking at one of the earlier pulls as assassination he had great SnD, better rupture uptime, etc.  That last pull though in combat...Yikes.

 

The whole raid team got a dose of reality this week with having logs analyzed by outside experts and I noticed a huge increase last night in dps and awareness. As I look over his logs I don't see that he ever has cast redirect, so if he's not aware of a major tool (even if it is going away in Warlords) that may be one of the biggest keys to getting him to switch to adds. 

 

Thank you both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Elodar
      Hey Gang, would you mind looking at my logs and let me know where I can improve my rotation as an assassination rogue.  I notice that all of my best logs have a significant amount of Poison Bomb and I don't like praying to RNJesus.  I am hoping there are some things I can do to hit top dps.  
      Here is my armory. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/emerald-dream/Elodar/simple.  I know my Mastery is low but lately I have had crap luck on drops.  One of the options I have to bring up my Mastery is to drop Insignia of Ravenholdt +Well Flattened Wristguards and change to Denial of Half Giants + an 890 Spellblades Gemmed Signet but Denial is a sub rogue legendary.  This brings my agility to 34248, mastery to 137%, and my crit to 28%.  I tried running this combo with the higher mastery and did not feel like I was doing more dps even though the Sims say I should.  
       
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dF3qCynDbvGrVAh6#fight=14&type=damage-done&source=186  This is one of my better logs where I think I did most thing correct.  Please look at this and let me know if there is something I am missing.
    • By Damien
      This thread is for comments about our Jade Rogue Standard Un'Goro deck.
    • By OroNerVoSo
      Hi all ! , this is my first post on Icy Veins , I'm ORO , and i play only ROGUE since 2 years on Heartstone.
      I want to share with this community my new Rogue Deck. it's pretty Similar to other decks played around , but it has some Variety and situational Cards that noone is playing , and that are helping me a lot.
      I don’t want to play those “charge” cards. Because if u fail the first hit , you have lost , and also you have no chance of backup or comeback drawing next card
      Never start questing on a creature that will give you problems , or you know you will be slower than enemy.
      If you will use this deck you can also be competitive versus long range decks.
      Elementals are way better than pirates , and you agro so much that you won’t need SAP , you also can quest on glacial shards , usefull versus Hunter and Warrior. A LOT.
      I would like also to explain after every cards , why i use this , and the situaions.
      Shadowstep x2 [edit15:35 , sorry for the lapsus]:
      Just NEED that for the combo.
      Preparation x2
      casting quest at 2 mana. AoE Dmg with Thalnos  and Fan of knives . USEFULL to cast ENEMY spells that you steal with Swashburglar. 
      good to cast the core with 2 mana , nice with fan of knives. nice with Vanish.
      The Caverns Below x1
      It does not need explain. it's a quest deck :)
      [edit 19/04] TRICK : you can play it as a combo. example : 2nd turn order --> The Coin --> Preparation --> The Caverns Below --> Edwin VanCleef . we got a 6/6 down and we sure gain some time. pretty a small all in of the deck. this trick let you play aggressive in the early turns , and this deck DON'T play aggressive in the early 4 turns.
      Fire Fly x2
      you can go late game with this. or quest at third turn. it can easily let you have 5 creatures down on 4th turn = 25 dmg on the 5th turn.
      Do you still have Swashburglar in your hand and Patches in the deck ? a coin ? :)
      Swashburglar x 2  
      this is unpredictable , it can steal worst cards , or best cards. sometimes best cards are not the best cards of the specific Match you playing. I call it a knife with a double cut side. sometimes it fulls your hand with cards that you won't use at all or you don't need . it's can be the salvation , or you are just wasting mana.
      Patches the Pirate x1
      i use it early only in critical situations , where my enemy is a strong face deck. Face Deck that love to have creatures alives to buff them. i really prefer to use it like a "surprise" of the last 5 dmg.
      i Mean if you're playing only 2x Swashburglar you can probably keep it in the deck for all the game.
      Always good , because also you put out a card from your deck. using his perk it's like drawing  a card
      Glacial Shard x2
      ok , you may go in combo with this. when? you have to predict it. realy usefull in many games against aggro NoFace decks. sometimes let me play 2 more turns , taking no dmg.
      [edit 19/04] wow , awesome card.  counter this Swamp King Dred , and go on on your questing ? NICE , AND TASTY , NOT ?
      Youthful Brewmaster x2
      NEED FOR QUEST
      Gadgetzan Ferryman x2
      NEED FOR QUEST
      Bloodmage Thalnos x1
      Really need to be played with Fan of Knives , you don't play it? every face aggro will (probably) destroy you with those stupid 1/2 , 2/3 , or 3/2 stuff.
      when it's the only option on the 2nd turn just play it. never keep it for too long in your hand.
      Novice Engineer x2
      BEST CARD FOR QUEST. Draw is better than everything. we got also counters in the deck. 
      Edwin VanCleef x1
      Emergency , play it before quest only in emergencies. you can double shadowstep him at turn 5. or it becomes really BIG played after the quest completion. because the quest make it 5/5 while he is in your hand.
      ALERT! : if you are going to play the quest in the next turn , and Edwin is an 8/8 for Example , you can use the quest to heal him after he attacked a provoke creature , or something else dangerous.
      Fan of Knives x2
      Good with Thalnos , with preparation , i prefer this , to Mimic Pod Deck and "dmg" cards like :Counterfeit Coin , Deadly Poison , Sinister Strike , Eviscerate ,Jade Shuriken , I can say that Mimic Pod made me Lose  much more of Win. i think it's a card for a miracle deck (Mimic Pod....)
      Ironbeak Owl x1
      Usefull , better then SAP. NICE VERSUS PRIESTS , PALADINS , sometimes it can be used for the quest.
      sometimes you can silence the heavy provoke creatures of the warrior. he got a slower deck , so you can play the owl for the quest.
      Gluttonous Ooze x1
      Just will save your ASS against WARRIOR , PALADINS , ROGUE , Hunters.
      Igneous Elemental x2
      let's take two more elementals 1/2 , usefull for questing , and mid/late range aggro. anyway good to be played with the coin in your 2nd turn.
      Eater of Secrets x1
      if you want to rank up with this deck , you have to play counter creatures. you don't know if in your next game , you will lose just because of a double Ice Block. remeber you can play it many times sapping it in your hand , and with just 4 mana you dispel ALL the secrets that the enemy had played before. Tempo mage is a pain in the ass. or Just Ice Block is most broken card in the game? I don't know , I just have to dispel those secrets to win certain games . Also usefull versus Hunters , less Versus Paladins because their secrets are not so much dangerous for you.
      Sherazin, Corpse Flower x1
      it just revives , and revives , while you are questing/sapping Fire Fly/Swashburglar/Glacial Shard etc etc...
      [edit 19/04] this is revealing a really good card. you can play the Vanish card as the fourth one that revives him. result : every creature go **** and  Sherazin, Corpse Flower stay down alive. quite a good trick.
      Shadowcaster x1
      you can use it with all the creatures you have. the 1/1 after questing , it's a 5/5 :) 
      [edit 19/04] this is revealing too a good option , also for a 2x , Reasons: 1.  you can copy your quest creature , 2. you can copy  another shadow caster so you can chain themselves to get a full table of shadowcasters , and also you have a 4/4 before quest the completion. maybe the solution is to play Shadowcaster...x2 ? and put out the Youthful Brewmaster  , so we can play Biteweed ? this is a good card you can play it 6/6 at the first turn (only if you got  The Coin
      Vanish x1 
      Finally we got some use with Vanish! you can close the quest with this. or deal 5 more dmg with Patches the Pirate , or get back all your Fire Fly /Swashburglar. Good also to Clean the table , and aggro back taking a turn advantage. if u have many fire flyes down  , the enemy won't aggro more than you , because his tougher creatures cost more than 1 mana. just use as last option against murloc decks , quest priest , quest warrior , quest hunter. you have one , play it wisely. maybe for a close combo with Patches the Pirate , but it must an ending game , last 5 dmg for the win. in the early with Preparation can be a good option if you are not drawing cards...
       
       
      I don't play other pirates like Southsea Deckhand because of : Golakka Crawler and because i don't want an all-in deck , i want a durable and versatile deck.
      I don't play Stonetusk Boar because i don't want an all-in deck , i want a durable and versatile deck.
      I don't play Eviscerate or other Removals , because i need creatures down. no more.
      List of suggested Cards that can synergyze good too and do tricky stuff ***not mentioned in the full deck above***
      Backstab
      Wild Pyromancer (you can do the surprise trick with The Caverns Below to get an earl 1 dmg , good combo versus Face Hunters)
      Sunfury Protector
      Doomsayer
      Lorewalker Cho (can work inside a "no-spells" deck, but every creature you play must do something. you should play creature that do what spells do)
      Biteweed 
       
      I hope you will like it , we can discuss every choice i made about this. For the moment it's a rank 13 confirmed , but people it's starting to play counter decks , and this is more difficult.
      This is weak versus tempo freezing quest mage , face hunters , and warriors that got the right quest deck with the right cards.
      probably weak versus every face deck around. probably if u play pirate versione you lose much because of just 3/4 provoke creatures.
      i'm open to advices by more experienced players :3
       
      [edit] updating while i wait some admin approve it :D
    • By Cryea
      Hi Guys, I need little help with stats priority and rotation. I think, Im doing something wrong with my dps. Cant break 500k-550k DPS on single target and need advice to someone AoE target bosses in Nighthold.
      I send my armory:
      http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/draenor/Cryea/simple
      And the logs:
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7Tp6r4a2vKdtYPDg
       
      Sorry for my bad english and its my first post.
    • By Peiriannydd
      So I've been pushing and pushing to get my DPS up over the course of the new expansion.  I've managed to bag my self the legendary shoulders and feet. I've been looking at logs and trying to improve things. I learnt a new opener (which massively improved my dps) and got my crit up (as I noticed other rogues had much higher crit than me).
      And now I just don't know what to do. I just can't seem to get better!
      I'll put a link to logs from the last heroic nighthold we did. It wasn't my best night performance wise  anyway (i'm playing on a potato and we had a huge raid group - fps sat between 6-15 for the whole raid). I think I'm doing something wrong with my main rotation when compared to the other rogue than joined us but I just don't know what it is. I'm stumped.

      So if anyone can see obvious mistakes then please shout at me so I can fix them. It's getting really frustrating!    You should be able to get to past logs through this link too.
       
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JxZwmh6gTpK7RMd2/

      Thanks!
      Peiriannydd.