Geoda

Bubbles, Overhealing, Ranking, Competition! How does it work?

37 posts in this topic

Alright, now that my guild is finally 14/14H, we are now going back to the beginning of the SoO instance for farming. We are a 10 man group and I am paired up with a Disc priest who is really good (Gwenymph - he is active on the priest forums). 

 

Okay, here's my question and I hope it makes sense because it may get confusing. 

 

This question is about bubbles (Holy Paladin Illuminating healing and other similar spells with other healing classes) and what takes priority. I will drop this down to simple numbers to hopefully give clarity.

 

Let's say Healer A casts a 100 HP bubble. Right afterwards Healer B casts a 100 HP bubble. At this moment, there is a 200 HP bubble. Now let's say a 50 HP damage goes out. Which bubble gets the benefit of the heal? Does Healer A because he casted first? Or does Healer B since his was the last heal? This comes down to FIFO (First in First Out) vs LIFO (Last in First out).

 

Okay, let's take this a step further. Let's say that Healer A gets the heal credit because he threw the bubble out first. Since his bubble never broke, he still has a 50 HP hanging around. If he casts an additional 50 HP bubble, does his stack with the existing one making it 100 HP again? If another 50 HP damage attack goes out, does Healer A continuously get the heal credit?

 

I'm not sure if this has ever been asked before, I'm assuming it has, but I was unable to find it since it can be an odd topic discussion. I was really hoping there was a Healer forum where all classes can collaborate, but since there isn't, I decided to stick this in my home here at the Paladin forums.

 

Ready.. set.. discuss!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no idea as to the answer, but it's also possible that it could depend on the owner of the bubble, as in paladin A bubbles go first because of alphabetical order compared to paladin B.

Just a possibility, not the answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to stop you right there!

 

Heal credit for absorbs always count.  That's why you can be spam-overwriting your own Spirit Shell, and still get the heal credit for it.

 

Now, for mechanical reasons, absorbs work with a strange hierarchy, with Divine Aegis being consumed first, then the smallest current absorb.

 

(Source)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Hybrys - Can you further explain what you mean by heal credit for absorbs always count? 

 

Edit: Looking at the link provided, I understand. Seems like an odd priority with smaller absorbs being used first. So.. less heals = more heals?

 

I ask because looking at the logs below, my healing was 15% lower, yet my overhealing was nearly 20% higher. 

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/n1GH3jNm6FDqkMKd#type=healing&fight=6

 

This was just 1 of the fights, feel free to dig deeper. 

Edited by Geoda
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Hybrys - Can you further explain what you mean by heal credit for absorbs always count? 

Take a look at your Illuminated Healing numbers, and you'll see a WAY lower Overheal percentage.  That's because the only way that an absorb an overheal is if it caps inside of itself.

 

In other terms, Illuminated Healing has a cap of 1/3rd the casting Paladin's max health (after buffs).  Your Illuminated Healing overheal shows the times that you refresh Illuminated Healing and the combined absorb total exceeds that amount.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting. Thank you for the feedback. Looks like I need to change up my style a bit to fully min/max. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting. Thank you for the feedback. Looks like I need to change up my style a bit to fully min/max. 

I personally wouldn't.  Healing ranks are an awful outcome of DPS ranks being a thing.  In order for healing ranks to matter, your raid has to play extremely sloppily so that you can spam and maintain a high HPS and low overheal.  It's an unfortunate situation.

 

Now, competing with your fellow healer for lower overhealing or higher HPS is fun stuff.  Sniping heals, AoE blankets, things like that.

 

That's just my opinion, though.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please don't start to care about healing rankings! :(

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please don't start to care about healing rankings! sad.png

 

That said truth is that healer rankings are really the only way to stand out as a healer.

 

But before you yell at me! Yes, I know that it matters if the raid is alive and the boss is dead, I get that. I have been healing for a long time. Yes, you can look deeper into the fight and see some timely heals, if he used a LoH, BoP, even a hand of freedom to save a life. Those are all traits of an amazing holy paladin (and I do these), but at first glance, most players do not see that. They see what ranking he is.

 

It's sad that I actually brought up ranking and I know that healing depends on speed of fight, dps failing at mechanics or stacking healers to lower overall healing per person, but sometimes I can't help but want to taste the sweet nectar of a rank. 

 

ohmy.png ph34r.png

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I'm recruiting holy paladins I look at their percentiles, realize I'm being dumb, and start going 1 by 1 through every reasonably geared holy paladin. It's awful to see whos really good

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I really look for in a Holy Paladin during recruitment is uptime, CD usage and their gear (breakpoints, gemming, etc.. the basics). But the sad truth is that you never really know how good a healer is until you put them together in your own raid. Healing can be such a touchy subject in my opinion.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, attitude is also very important, which isn't visible on logs =o

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I really look for in a Holy Paladin during recruitment is uptime, CD usage and their gear (breakpoints, gemming, etc.. the basics). But the sad truth is that you never really know how good a healer is until you put them together in your own raid. Healing can be such a touchy subject in my opinion.

But this is exactly what you need to look at, and why ranks don't matter.  My recruitment is ALWAYS based off of skill of play, damage/healing layouts, spell/talent selection, and mechanics performance.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree Hybrys. My biggest reason was to spark some discussion on the Paladin forums. This seems to be the most dead amongst all the others. I am a forum junkie (ask Krazyito and Gwenymph) and my main interest is Holy Paladin, so I figured I'd drop a question in here and gather opinions.

 

biggrin.png

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't say most dead, but I agree it is dead. I think it's because there isn't much left to talk about, so the only posts that should come in are posts asking for help.

 

My guess is people are too afraid to ask for help, don't need help because of the guide is so straight forward, or paladins know how to read ;)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Holier than thou, paladins...    pfft.   Leave absorbs to the Priests.   I know we talked about it in raid yesterday but for those catching up.  Yes, abosrbs work smallest to largest no matter the duration or class.  So when I see IH overkill for a low INC DMG ability, I use only one stack of SS instead of two and snipe paladin bubbles.  Not to mention that the shadow priests, warlocks and I macro in /cancelaura macro to our casts for IH.  It really helps you keep your thumb on those plate wearers.

 

GL tonight Geo

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree Hybrys. My biggest reason was to spark some discussion on the Paladin forums. This seems to be the most dead amongst all the others. I am a forum junkie (ask Krazyito and Gwenymph) and my main interest is Holy Paladin, so I figured I'd drop a question in here and gather opinions.

 

biggrin.png

 

 

I wouldn't say most dead, but I agree it is dead. I think it's because there isn't much left to talk about, so the only posts that should come in are posts asking for help.

 

My guess is people are too afraid to ask for help, don't need help because of the guide is so straight forward, or paladins know how to read wink.png

 

I found my new holy paladin forum! wub.png   My main is a holy priest, but I'm slowing gearing up my paladin to get out of LFR - I'll be sure to post my questions here, along with appropriate links.  biggrin.png

Edited by Maplefire
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found my new holy paladin forum! wub.png   My main is a holy priest, but I'm slowing gearing up my paladin to get out of LFR - I'll be sure to post my questions here, along with appropriate links.  biggrin.png

 

I'll spoil the ending for you.  You'll wish your paladin was a priest!  hehe

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pft, biggest lie ever, see all those beautiful things you can solo with your prot offspec?!?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see Maplefire changing his alt paladin to be his main wink.png

 

How can you see anything from down there on the healing chart?  You should really get a priest and check out the views from up here.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Pain
      Hello guys i would like to share my weakauras for each healing class, hope you like it 😉
      Any feedback is appreciated
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      New to Weakauras ?
      You can download it here :
      https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/weakauras-2
      Click the link of the weakaura you want which you can find down below  (Import string) On the wago.io webpage links you can find a copy string button on the right, colored red.
      Like this :  When ingame type /wa to open the control panel of weakaura. Select "import" Paste the string from the wago webpage into this. A screen will pop-up and select the import button on it. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Update Log 
      17-06-18 : Pre-pared all healing tools for patch 8.0 will upload them when patch releases!
      20-06-18 : Uploaded the 8.0 release (still in beta will finalize them when patch is live)
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Summary :
      Shaman Druid Paladin Priest Monk ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Shaman 

      Resto Shaman - Healing Tool
       
      Import string :  https://wago.io/SJAG4cTub        ←
      ________________________________________________________
      What's making sound :
      Riptide - off cooldown
      Healing rain - off cooldown
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Resto Shaman - Usable cooldowns

      Import string :  https://wago.io/S1u7HqpdZ       ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
       
      Druid 
      Druid - Healing Tool

      Import string :  https://wago.io/H1ZvS9p_b       ←
      _______________________________________________________
      What's making sound :
      Life-Bloom - when its about to expire from target
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

      Paladin
      Paladin - Healing tool

      Import string : https://wago.io/BkQJU96dZ        ←
      ________________________________________________________
      What's making sound :
      Holyshock - off cooldown
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Paladin - Usable cooldowns 

      Import string :  https://wago.io/r1jnNOQ8M      ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Paladin - Light of Dawn info *additional*

      Import string : https://wago.io/HyrN6y4YZ         ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

      Priest
      Holy Priest - Healing Tool

      Import string : https://wago.io/SyghGYcqG        ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Holy Priest - Trail of light Talent Tracker *Additional*

      Import string :  https://wago.io/EyclhaZuZ        ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
       
      Disc Priest - Healing Tool

      Import string :  https://wago.io/SyCn89TdZ        ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
       
      Monk
      Mistweaver Monk - Healing Tool

      Import string :  https://wago.io/ryDtJHY5M        ←
      What's making sound : 
      Renewing Mist - off cooldown
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
       
    • By Pocimas
      Hello everyone,
      I want to ask for any tips on my logs, since I think I'm doing something wrong with my resto druid.
      I have good gear (currently 958 ilvl) but I see other druids with similar or less gear do way higher HPS than me on the logs. I think I should be doing more than 900/1k hps, but rarely go above 700 in many fights.
      Here are a couple of logs of Antorus hc:
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cHZLXF1t8J7YMwBT
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zGB27L8KYp4HXJZQ
      I searched the logs and I think one of my main problems for the lack of healing is the rejuvenations. Other druids do far more healing with same or less rejuvs, since my average casts is around 450k (and other druids go up to 750 or even 1000).
      I don't know if it's a problem with timing or overhealing (other healers snipping me), but I want to know other opinions.
      Thanks a lot for your help.
    • By bradieboi
      Hi guys! 
      https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/chamber-of-aspects/erthol   So this is my mistweaver monk here. Now I have actually managed to start raiding and do normals every week. However I have a huuuuge problem, specifically that my hps is really, really low. A good example I think would be this Aggramar fight: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jKcxbLXrQ9pknDva#fight=27&type=healing   You can see how the other monk had much higher hps than me. I do understand my leggos are subpar, but meh, bad luck one could say. What I don't understand is what I'm doing wrong. I try to use renewing mist on cd, use Vivify. I know I haven't used Effuse too much, but that's because I was trying out fistweawing. Anyways, all my other logs are basically the same. I have way too high overhealing as well. Any help would be great, because I'm lost, I love the monk, I love the style, but somehow can't get it to work as I would like it to. Please help meeeeee! Thanks for the feedback. 
    • By healionaire
      What stat %s should we aim for?
    • By Brerathiel
      As the title suggests - I think it's time that we discuss our Beacon(s) and their place in the current 'meta'.
      Most of you will probably not agree with me but I feel like there's a very limited impact to beacon currently. When Legion was first announced I was thrilled at the prospect of tanks losing the 'I am a wall of iron....' and becoming more dependent on their healers again. And I say this despite playing a Guardian Druid for most of WoD with raiding Mythic throughout the expansion.
      Once more it was going to be down to your healers to keep you level and you would focus primarily on smoothing out the damage intake while still picking up adds, tank swaps, controlling pace, positioning etc. (the list goes on and on obviously!). Healing yourself was no longer to be your responsibility!
      Currently it feels like we've moved too far away from that again. Now this - of course, being an issue not only for paladins but an overall issue with the current state of tanking.
      But I digress.... The reason why I feel Beacon needs to be reworked slightly is because currently beacon is having a very minor effective healing vs the overhealing it 'provides'. I've heard several arguments for this. Some feel that 'it is free overhealing so why should we care?' but I lean to the side of: What is the point of having a spell, which is undoubtedly one of our core abilities, that have such a low impact?
      I feel like some tuning is in order for it. Maybe rework what it actually does? Tuning overall healing throughput of tanks?
      Rework our mastery to be more interactive with throughput in relation to beacons?
      I can't really offer any substantial solutions to the problem but I still feel that it is, in fact, a problem.
      What are your thoughts on this? Has Blizzard dug themselves into a hole again with the current state of tanking or could a rework of the Beacon sort the issue so that it feels that Holy Paladins are once more the Go-To 'Tank Healer' with a more impactful kit?