Geoda

Bubbles, Overhealing, Ranking, Competition! How does it work?

37 posts in this topic

Alright, now that my guild is finally 14/14H, we are now going back to the beginning of the SoO instance for farming. We are a 10 man group and I am paired up with a Disc priest who is really good (Gwenymph - he is active on the priest forums). 

 

Okay, here's my question and I hope it makes sense because it may get confusing. 

 

This question is about bubbles (Holy Paladin Illuminating healing and other similar spells with other healing classes) and what takes priority. I will drop this down to simple numbers to hopefully give clarity.

 

Let's say Healer A casts a 100 HP bubble. Right afterwards Healer B casts a 100 HP bubble. At this moment, there is a 200 HP bubble. Now let's say a 50 HP damage goes out. Which bubble gets the benefit of the heal? Does Healer A because he casted first? Or does Healer B since his was the last heal? This comes down to FIFO (First in First Out) vs LIFO (Last in First out).

 

Okay, let's take this a step further. Let's say that Healer A gets the heal credit because he threw the bubble out first. Since his bubble never broke, he still has a 50 HP hanging around. If he casts an additional 50 HP bubble, does his stack with the existing one making it 100 HP again? If another 50 HP damage attack goes out, does Healer A continuously get the heal credit?

 

I'm not sure if this has ever been asked before, I'm assuming it has, but I was unable to find it since it can be an odd topic discussion. I was really hoping there was a Healer forum where all classes can collaborate, but since there isn't, I decided to stick this in my home here at the Paladin forums.

 

Ready.. set.. discuss!

 

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I have no idea as to the answer, but it's also possible that it could depend on the owner of the bubble, as in paladin A bubbles go first because of alphabetical order compared to paladin B.

Just a possibility, not the answer.

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I'm going to stop you right there!

 

Heal credit for absorbs always count.  That's why you can be spam-overwriting your own Spirit Shell, and still get the heal credit for it.

 

Now, for mechanical reasons, absorbs work with a strange hierarchy, with Divine Aegis being consumed first, then the smallest current absorb.

 

(Source)

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@Hybrys - Can you further explain what you mean by heal credit for absorbs always count? 

 

Edit: Looking at the link provided, I understand. Seems like an odd priority with smaller absorbs being used first. So.. less heals = more heals?

 

I ask because looking at the logs below, my healing was 15% lower, yet my overhealing was nearly 20% higher. 

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/n1GH3jNm6FDqkMKd#type=healing&fight=6

 

This was just 1 of the fights, feel free to dig deeper. 

Edited by Geoda
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@Hybrys - Can you further explain what you mean by heal credit for absorbs always count? 

Take a look at your Illuminated Healing numbers, and you'll see a WAY lower Overheal percentage.  That's because the only way that an absorb an overheal is if it caps inside of itself.

 

In other terms, Illuminated Healing has a cap of 1/3rd the casting Paladin's max health (after buffs).  Your Illuminated Healing overheal shows the times that you refresh Illuminated Healing and the combined absorb total exceeds that amount.

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Interesting. Thank you for the feedback. Looks like I need to change up my style a bit to fully min/max. 

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Interesting. Thank you for the feedback. Looks like I need to change up my style a bit to fully min/max. 

I personally wouldn't.  Healing ranks are an awful outcome of DPS ranks being a thing.  In order for healing ranks to matter, your raid has to play extremely sloppily so that you can spam and maintain a high HPS and low overheal.  It's an unfortunate situation.

 

Now, competing with your fellow healer for lower overhealing or higher HPS is fun stuff.  Sniping heals, AoE blankets, things like that.

 

That's just my opinion, though.

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Please don't start to care about healing rankings! :(

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Please don't start to care about healing rankings! sad.png

 

That said truth is that healer rankings are really the only way to stand out as a healer.

 

But before you yell at me! Yes, I know that it matters if the raid is alive and the boss is dead, I get that. I have been healing for a long time. Yes, you can look deeper into the fight and see some timely heals, if he used a LoH, BoP, even a hand of freedom to save a life. Those are all traits of an amazing holy paladin (and I do these), but at first glance, most players do not see that. They see what ranking he is.

 

It's sad that I actually brought up ranking and I know that healing depends on speed of fight, dps failing at mechanics or stacking healers to lower overall healing per person, but sometimes I can't help but want to taste the sweet nectar of a rank. 

 

ohmy.png ph34r.png

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When I'm recruiting holy paladins I look at their percentiles, realize I'm being dumb, and start going 1 by 1 through every reasonably geared holy paladin. It's awful to see whos really good

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What I really look for in a Holy Paladin during recruitment is uptime, CD usage and their gear (breakpoints, gemming, etc.. the basics). But the sad truth is that you never really know how good a healer is until you put them together in your own raid. Healing can be such a touchy subject in my opinion.

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Yeah, attitude is also very important, which isn't visible on logs =o

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What I really look for in a Holy Paladin during recruitment is uptime, CD usage and their gear (breakpoints, gemming, etc.. the basics). But the sad truth is that you never really know how good a healer is until you put them together in your own raid. Healing can be such a touchy subject in my opinion.

But this is exactly what you need to look at, and why ranks don't matter.  My recruitment is ALWAYS based off of skill of play, damage/healing layouts, spell/talent selection, and mechanics performance.

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I agree Hybrys. My biggest reason was to spark some discussion on the Paladin forums. This seems to be the most dead amongst all the others. I am a forum junkie (ask Krazyito and Gwenymph) and my main interest is Holy Paladin, so I figured I'd drop a question in here and gather opinions.

 

biggrin.png

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I wouldn't say most dead, but I agree it is dead. I think it's because there isn't much left to talk about, so the only posts that should come in are posts asking for help.

 

My guess is people are too afraid to ask for help, don't need help because of the guide is so straight forward, or paladins know how to read ;)

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Holier than thou, paladins...    pfft.   Leave absorbs to the Priests.   I know we talked about it in raid yesterday but for those catching up.  Yes, abosrbs work smallest to largest no matter the duration or class.  So when I see IH overkill for a low INC DMG ability, I use only one stack of SS instead of two and snipe paladin bubbles.  Not to mention that the shadow priests, warlocks and I macro in /cancelaura macro to our casts for IH.  It really helps you keep your thumb on those plate wearers.

 

GL tonight Geo

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I agree Hybrys. My biggest reason was to spark some discussion on the Paladin forums. This seems to be the most dead amongst all the others. I am a forum junkie (ask Krazyito and Gwenymph) and my main interest is Holy Paladin, so I figured I'd drop a question in here and gather opinions.

 

biggrin.png

 

 

I wouldn't say most dead, but I agree it is dead. I think it's because there isn't much left to talk about, so the only posts that should come in are posts asking for help.

 

My guess is people are too afraid to ask for help, don't need help because of the guide is so straight forward, or paladins know how to read wink.png

 

I found my new holy paladin forum! wub.png   My main is a holy priest, but I'm slowing gearing up my paladin to get out of LFR - I'll be sure to post my questions here, along with appropriate links.  biggrin.png

Edited by Maplefire
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I found my new holy paladin forum! wub.png   My main is a holy priest, but I'm slowing gearing up my paladin to get out of LFR - I'll be sure to post my questions here, along with appropriate links.  biggrin.png

 

I'll spoil the ending for you.  You'll wish your paladin was a priest!  hehe

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Pft, biggest lie ever, see all those beautiful things you can solo with your prot offspec?!?

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I can see Maplefire changing his alt paladin to be his main wink.png

 

How can you see anything from down there on the healing chart?  You should really get a priest and check out the views from up here.

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