Badterri

Energy pooling?

11 posts in this topic

New poster here, please be gentle =)

I've been using the Icy Veins guide to level up a new Assassination rogue (post-5.0.4), which states as follows:

"To benefit from the Posted ImageEnvenom buff as much as possible, you will want to pool Energy before casting Posted ImageEnvenom. The idea is to be able to cast Posted ImageMutilate at least twice while the buff is active."

Since Deadly Poison has a chance to be applied by any strike (including auto-attacks), could anyone explain why pooling energy before Envenom is beneficial in order to cast (specifically) Mutilate as stated above? Is a poison proc damage somehow increased if Mutilate is used? Apologies if I've missed something very obvious, but at the moment I can't see the point of having 2 Mutilates ready post-envenom, rather than just waiting on energy regen in the usual way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello new poster Posted Image

What I think you are missing is that when ability_rogue_dualweild.jpgDeadly Poison is already applied on the target, subsequent applications will instantly deal damage (in addition to also refreshing the DoT).

If you cast ability_rogue_shadowstrikes.jpgMutilate while the buff from ability_rogue_disembowel.jpgEnvenom is active, the chance that it will apply Deadly Poison is increased by 15%, which means that you have an increased chance to deal extra damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the reply - but I'm afraid I'm still struggling...

I do realise that subsequent applications of ability_rogue_dualweild.jpgDeadly Poison deal instant damage, but as far as I can tell, the amount of that damage is in a fixed range (per the tooltip), meaning that it will add the same amount whether it procs from a ability_rogue_shadowstrikes.jpgMutilate or an Auto-attack (or anything in between).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it seems to me that the buff triggered by ability_rogue_disembowel.jpgEnvenom provides the same amount of bonus poison damage whether or not energy is pooled to enable the casting of two Mutilates during the buff.

Any further thoughts? Posted Image

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any further thoughts? Posted Image

If you pool energy before Envenom, you get the chance at autoattack poison procs *and* (usually up to two) Mutilate poison procs during the Envenom buff. If you don't, you only get the autoattack procs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah yes of course that makes perfect sense. And thinking about it more, there is the added bonus that Mutilate will have no chance to miss at spell-hit cap.

Thank you - this has been bugging me!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mutilate hits or misses depend on whether you reached the melee hit cap at 7.5%. It is a special (or yellow) melee attack, not a spell :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mut also strikes with both weapons at the same time, so assuming DP has an even chance to apply with both weapons in the new world of poisons (pretty sure it does), you are getting two buffed chances to apply DP in each envenom if you pool first.

If your SnD is going to fall off it is probably better to envenom early to refresh it. We are energy starved beyond belief right now, so getting two muts in an envenom isn't always going to happen. It's a good thing to try for though. If you spec Anticipation, you can blindside at 5cp while pooling and not worry about losing the extra CP.

Get a good buff/debuff timer (I use Rogue Power Bars) and get a feel for watching them. Sometimes it feels like I'm healing again and I get tunnel vision on my timers ... try to put them somewhere on your screen where you can glance quick and see them, but not so central that you'll completely focus on them and start Standing In Bad Things.

Edited by Skroo
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or if your going to tunnel on your timers at least get GTFO so you minimize the standing in the fire/goo/purple stuff/assorted colours of gas damage :) (i will admit to being guilty of this very thing however which is why i use it, reduced my deaths heaps)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New Icy-Veins member here also,

When i do my rotation, i pool energy to about 50 then use envenom, that will allow a mutilate shortly after and another mutilate before envenom falls off

I think its safer to pool some energy for a envenom instead of clipping the envenom buff

Example:

5cp envenom > mutilate x2 and you get lucky with crits and have the 5cp again from seal fate + anticipation and still have the envenom buff, wait till it goes away then envenom again, while waiting you pool energy for another mutilate right after you envenom

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With high amounts of haste (I prefer mastery>haste>crit after obtaining t15 2pc, waiting for my meta gem to switch completely to haste), and probably t15 2pc you should pretty much spam all your energy during envenoms so that you end up with 9 or 10 combo points, then you use envenom and again gather those anticipation stacks. The pure gold in this thing is it allows you to refresh rupture and still almost instantly use envenom. It makes envenom uptime (which is really important) much much much higher.

As a sidenote, never ever ever ever clip envenom. Unless dreaded 5 combo points and 5 stacks of anticipation and 90 energy. Then you are free to clip. Of course heroism and such increase energy regen so much that you have to clip, and it's preferred then.

And, if any Icy-Veins pro would tell me what's a good envenom uptime? At my current haste (around 8k) I tend to have 70-80% uptime minimum if full time on boss. Depending on the fight of course. I'm working on it Posted Image

Edited by Dreamrogue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Casdon
      [US] Stormreaver — Skunkworks
      Tuesdays & Thursdays: 7:00 P.M. to 11:00 P.M. (pst) || 9-1 (cst) || 10-2 (est)
       
      Progression
      7/11M Antorus
      9/9M ToS
      10/10M Nighthold
      3/3M Trial of Valor
      7/7M Emerald Nightmare
       
      Website
      skunkworksguild.com
       
      About Us
      Skunkworks is a guild for players who can not or do not want to commit to the time-intensive raid schedules of traditional "hardcore" guilds.
      However, we still maintain a high caliber player environment and make an efficient use of our raiding time.
      We raid Tuesdays and Thursdays from 7:00 - 11:00 PST, just 8 hours a week and never more.
       
      We are very protective of our guild environment and selective in recruitment. We are looking for solid players mechanically as well as intellectually.
      We all get paid to deal with idiots, why should we pay to spend our leisure time with them as well?
       
      Skunkworks has been around for multiple expansions and has historically always been at the top of the 2-night raiding guild scene.
       
      Past Raiding Achievements
       
      #US 199 Mythic KJ #US 186 Mythic Archimonde #131 US Heroic Garrosh #68 US Heroic Ra-den #77 US Heroic Lei Shen #86 US Heroic Sha of Fear #106 US Heroic Madness of Deathwing #99 US Heroic Ragnaros #147 US Sinestra #91 US Heroic The Twilight Destroyer (Halion) #71 US Heroic Fall of the Lich King #247 US Tribute to Insanity #160 US Alone in the Darkness Current Guild Needs
      Amazing Range DPS ---Exceptional Candidates always considered regardless of recruiting needs.
       
      How to Apply
      Apply with Google Forms
      https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeL-LW1-7rRK28Z3Nswg4xD3-jjQWrIsCh77rYOdxKwY0oPPQ/viewform.
      All applications are kept private.
      Please include at least the following.
          Prominent links to relevant armory pages ]A guild history with reasons for departure
          The reason(s) you have chosen to apply to this guild
          Warcraft Logs
          UI screenshots or fraps/Stream footage
       
      Contact Information
      Shadaka (GM)
      Real ID:Shadak#1881
       
      Aerivore (Recruitment Officers)
      Real ID:  Aerivore#1581
       
      Sovm
      Real ID: Sov#1192
    • By Hanz39
      I've never shared a deck but I'll make an exception sharing one of my most successful decks (played on the ladder up to rank 3 several months)
      It's a Keleseth Rogue with very peculiar cards and the biggest difference is that Deathwing is mostly the win-condition of the deck
      Here is the masterpiece :D
      2X Backstab
      2X Shadowstep
      2X Elven Archer
      2X Swashburglar
      2X Southsea Deckhand
      1X Patches the Pirate
      1X Prince Keleseth
      1X Acolyte of Pain
      2X SI:7 Agent
      2X Southsea Captain
      1X Edwin VanCleef
      1X Shaku, the Collector
      2X Saronite Chain Gang
      2X Nesting Roc
      2X Vilespine Slayer
      1X The Black Knight
      1X The Curator
      2X Bonemare
      1X Deathwing
       
      Elven Archer is mainly a combo activator that is more useful than Fire Fly since it does damage and can be shadowstepped if needs and save countless damage to face when big minions remain on the field with 1 hp saving you from taking huge face  damage to ping them, the card really shine in the deck to the point to deserving to name it
      The Curator is there to pull Deathwing mostly and you get also a Nesting Roc in the process
      Nesting Roc takes the place of Cobalt Scalebane commonly seen to add synergy to Curator, give a strong minion that priest almost never remove or a 7 hp taunt that I find more useful than a 5/5 do nothing
      The Black Knight was added to help Vilespine removing high health minions that mostly have taunt to direct Vilespine on the other minions
      Deathwing is the big surprise because it usually win matches on its own even matches that are completely off control can be win thanks to him.
      Most people tend to go all in when see a Rogue in late game because almost nobody with similar decks bring aoe removal and even less can suspect that the dragon you pull with The Curator is Deathwing himself wrongfully think that is probably a Cobalt Scalebane
      Against a Jade Druid landing a Deathwing is almost guaranteed to end the game because they spend any removal on the other minions and tend to go wide with boards resulting in losing 6-7 minions and have to face a 12 attack minion that they need at least 2 turns, turns they don't have cause Deathwing going face and leaving them dead.
      Not drawing Keleseth early here isn't much a loss because you not need to win as fast as possible othwerwise you are doomed because usually the plan B works better than the plan A because the deck run so many minion that almost nobody save a removal for the 'surprise' Deathwing.
      If someone wants try it let me know how was. I used this from rank 15 to 3 for 3 months already winning most of the matches without much problems against the most commonly found decks in standard.
       
    • By Violentravi
      Hello,
      The Sworn is recruiting DPS.  We are a Horde guild on Arthas and our current progression is 4/9 Mythic TOS.  We only raid two nights a week, Tuesday and Wednesday from 9:05 PM until 12:05 AM Eastern.  Currently, our main goal is to push Mythis TOS progression versus clearing farmed content, please keep this in mind if you wish to join us.
      From you, we would expect 100% attendance during your trial period; after that if you cannot make a raid or will be late it is mandatory to keep the raid leader updated.  In order to continue making good progression while raiding only two nights a week, we expect that you know your class inside-out and will research any bosses you are unfamiliar with prior to raids.
       If you are interested, you can either reply to this thread and link your most recent combat logs for review or hit me up on battlenet, Violentnacho, recruiting officer (violentravi#1826.
      Thank you for your consideration
      Xoxo
      Violentnacho
    • By HansHolger
      Hallo everybody,
      I have a question about transmoging.
      I would love to use the silent Assassin set on my Monk, i that possible? I know that i can wear the t13 from druids, but not sure about that special rogue set.
      https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/transmogrification-rogue-challenge-mode-set
      Thank you in advance
      HansHolger