6.1 Demonology Guide

[Astynax 24]

Went demo on mythic twins last night, Our ret was like... where the hell is your damage coming from (as he hasnt seen our locks near the top all xpac apart from my decent ranking on Koragh)

 

Made me lol

Solution: get better locks.

Lol. There is a lot of bitching, lots of it warranted, about our weakness, but most of us are still pushing out the numbers. I'd like to think most of us are a class of knowledgable people who play well. The locks in my group are still beating some people, consistently, and we're almost never the worst dps in there. I think of it as a testament to our ability as players. Even when we're "bad." We're doing good.

[Hybrex 1]

I didnt say we were the ass end of the dps, nor did I say we were even bad. locks are doing fine dps for what we are, constantly beating others. I said ret paladin, a class that is doing very well at the moment almost always at or near the top. We also have 2 arcane mages, 3 Hunters, A rogue, ie classes that are very decent.

 

the tldr was, Demo on twins do very good damage.  Not that "Locks are otherwise shit", which seems to be how you took that. 

Edited December 19, 2014 by Hybrex

[yibsu 1]

Is it worth it to delay my active trinket (CC) for the second Demonbolt phase since it's 4 instead of 2? Still using DS on the pull, just delaying Copeland's by one minute. This is with the static haste/multistrike trinket, so no proc ICDs to worry about.

Edited December 19, 2014 by yibsu

[Astynax 24]

I didnt say we were the ass end of the dps, nor did I say we were even bad. locks are doing fine dps for what we are, constantly beating others. I said ret paladin, a class that is doing very well at the moment almost always at or near the top. We also have 2 arcane mages, 3 Hunters, A rogue, ie classes that are very decent.

 

the tldr was, Demo on twins do very good damage.  Not that "Locks are otherwise shit", which seems to be how you took that.

No. The opposite. I think we 're fine. My point was "locks are maybe the one class that has to be severely underpowered to show across the board.

[Soulzar 42]

Is it worth it to delay my active trinket (CC) for the second Demonbolt phase since it's 4 instead of 2? Still using DS on the pull, just delaying Copeland's by one minute. This is with the static haste/multistrike trinket, so no proc ICDs to worry about.

 

Not likely.  Delaying at the start could prevent an extra use in the end.

[Hybrex 1]

Hard decision trinket wise

 

Copelands

Heroic Stat Stick

Mythic Shards

 

I love stat stick/shards but copelands being so strong im not sure. 

[Astynax 24]

Hard decision trinket wise

Copelands

Heroic Stat Stick

Mythic Shards

I love stat stick/shards but copelands being so strong im not sure.

I would imagine cope lands + stat stick. But if you're wondering, do the math on average spell power gain from shard v cope lands. That should give you a rough idea of which is ahead. Obviously, if it's close, cope lands takes it.

Edit: I'm bored and like napkin math:

Call cope lands available for every 4th demonbolt cycle.

1467/4= 367 average int gain on demonbolt.

302 flat int gain on shard.

367-302= 65 sp differential.

65 x 4.5 = 292 + 351 + 410 + 468 = 1521 damage differential in every demonbolt cycle, before crit.

302 x 0.816 = 246.4 damage gain from shard per soul fire, ignoring crit.

1521/246.3 = 6 soul fires between demonbolt a to make up the damage differential.

But that's wrong, cause crit strike, so 3 soul fires.

Or 302 x 1.26 = 380.5 damage per shadow bolt.

1521/380 = 4 shadow bolts to make up the damage.

In other words. Shard might be a very very minor dps gain, but it's probably marginal.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Astynax

[Vile 9]

I didnt say we were the ass end of the dps, nor did I say we were even bad. locks are doing fine dps for what we are, constantly beating others. I said ret paladin, a class that is doing very well at the moment almost always at or near the top. We also have 2 arcane mages, 3 Hunters, A rogue, ie classes that are very decent.

 

the tldr was, Demo on twins do very good damage.  Not that "Locks are otherwise shit", which seems to be how you took that. 

 

Do you run Cataclysm for that fight? Do you have any logs of your attempts? I'm running Affli at the moment for our Twins attempts and doing very good on DPS but Demo feels both more mobile and more fun so I'd like to see if numbers can be about equal.

[Hybrex 1]

Well i got it my first kill of twins, then posted my comment so haven't tested it.

 

I was running demo with cata, with Stat Stick + CC

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HRBhj8CLKvZy13Jw

 

Thats my log.

 

inb4 "ZOMG YOU PLAYED TERRIBLY" - I know this. Save your breathe's IV community, however feel free to have a look, Vile

 

First thought for demo Leap and then Soulfire during meta as normal.

 

However dumping Fury with ToC whilst blaze + empowered whirlwind or just any movement seemed a lot better. Still trying to use as many soulfires as needed in meta without starving myself for movement phases. 

Edited December 22, 2014 by Hybrex

[Twinkielock 15]

If DS is glyphed besides the burn phase when should it be used?  

[Liquidsteel 279]

If DS is glyphed besides the burn phase when should it be used?

Do you mean DS Glyph in conjunction with AD?

If so it depends. You can use it based on the needs of the encounter, or at the end for a final mini burn.

Are you taking cata or demonbolt? These things must all be taken into consideration and you can make your own decision.

[JvChequer 43]

AD is a must for Demonbolt.

 

But for Cata depends on the encounter.

[Molocci 0]

Hello guys! I want to offspec demo but my main spec is affliction thus I have haste gems/enchants. Is it a big dps loss in comparsion to prioritizing mastery (as demo ofc)?

Edited January 4, 2015 by Molocci

[JvChequer 43]

Hello guys! I want to offspec demo but my main spec is affliction thus I have haste gems/enchants. Is it a big dps loss in comparsion to prioritizing mastery (as demo ofc)?

 

Go for mastery gems, affliction does OK with mastery gems and mastery it's better in multi-dot than haste for affliction.

[spikeysquad 50]

From the guide:

 

"TL;DR - Mastery >= Haste (to about 10%) > Crit = Multistrike > Haste = Versatility"

 

Does that mean 10% self or raid buffed please? I'm sitting at 4% self buffed and the haste value is already dropping off but that just could be because I have so much of it compared to other stats as I was/am gearing more towards Affliction.

Edited January 5, 2015 by spikeysquad

[Zagam 1,982]

From the guide:

 

"TL;DR - Mastery >= Haste (to about 10%) > Crit = Multistrike > Haste = Versatility"

 

Does that mean 10% self or raid buffed please? I'm sitting at 4% self buffed and the haste value is already dropping off but that just could be because I have so much of it compared to other stats as I was/am gearing more towards Affliction.

That means you need about 10% in combat in order to fuel the necessary Demonic Fury generation.  The guide was written with a 4 Demonbolt basis, but with some using a 3 DB cycle, the 10% Haste isn't required.  Please remember that the difference between these stats is very small.

[spikeysquad 50]

Thanks Zagam for the reply. Yeah I tend to use the 3 DB cycle as I never seem to get enough fury which lends me to my next request. I imagine that you are really busy with progress but do you think that you could update the main guide please to reflect the current thinking on the usage of Demonbolt rather than just the get 850 fury dump 4 method? Or is the latter still better? Perhaps even something about how long to wait for DS/other procs and so on? I know a lot of it is in multiple pages in this thread but to have it together would be fantastic if it is not too much effort. 

 

I know that it is probably only used on one or two fights but I would really like some information on how to do a Cata Rotation as well please. Well I mean a non-Demonbolting rotation so like whether to cast Soul Fire and Cata in Meta only. When to enter Meta, how long to stay, whether we should be using the DS glyph here and so on. This is what I need to improve on majorly at the moment and I am a little unclear of what I should be doing.

 

P.S, Just to be aware that I have also asked some of these Cata questions in the Help My DPS thread but hopefully I am not causing too much trouble or duplicates. And yes I will try to pay any help forward.

Edited January 5, 2015 by spikeysquad

[Zagam 1,982]

Thanks Zagam for the reply. Yeah I tend to use the 3 DB cycle as I never seem to get enough fury which lends me to my next request. I imagine that you are really busy with progress but do you think that you could update the main guide please to reflect the current thinking on the usage of Demonbolt rather than just the get 850 fury dump 4 method? Or is the latter still better? Perhaps even something about how long to wait for DS/other procs and so on? I know a lot of it is in multiple pages in this thread but to have it together would be fantastic if it is not too much effort. 

It's fight dependent - super easy on Butcher to land 4 DBs - more difficult on Kargath (Mythic at least) and other fights with intermittent movement.  I've been toying with the idea of macroing KJC with Dark Soul just so I can always get my DBs off.  With that said, if you're playing your rotation perfectly in keeping Corruption up, using Soul Fire appropriately, and not getting shafted by Doom RNG, you should easily be able to get enough DF to get 4 DBs each cycle.  Movement hurts Demo's ability to build DF, however, so on movement encounters, 3 suffices. 

 

You do NOT delay Demonbolt for Dark Soul or other buffs. 

[Soulzar 42]

 

I know that it is probably only used on one or two fights but I would really like some information on how to do a Cata Rotation as well please. Well I mean a non-Demonbolting rotation so like whether to cast Soul Fire and Cata in Meta only. When to enter Meta, how long to stay, whether we should be using the DS glyph here and so on. This is what I need to improve on majorly at the moment and I am a little unclear of what I should be doing.

 

 

I've found that in most of the situations I am using Cata its due to having multiple dooms rolling.  In these cases your MC charges come in about as fast as you can use them and I have been liberally casting SF outside of Meta over SB.  I do not use DS glyph as I have 20s trinket proc and a longer than 10s fury dump window, despite Cata being a 1m cooldown.

[spikeysquad 50]

You do NOT delay Demonbolt for Dark Soul or other buffs. 

 

Ok thank you. That makes sense but I guess that we would delay DS for DB? 

 

I've found that in most of the situations I am using Cata its due to having multiple dooms rolling.  In these cases your MC charges come in about as fast as you can use them and I have been liberally casting SF outside of Meta over SB.  I do not use DS glyph as I have 20s trinket proc and a longer than 10s fury dump window, despite Cata being a 1m cooldown.

 

Thanks Soulzar I think that I am heading on the right track then. Over the next couple of days I will go as Demo in LFR without DB and then do a normal Tectus and see how I do and it feels then probably get some stuff written up then come back with a bunch more questions!  

[Twinkielock 15]

I know these situations aren't ideal but sometimes mistakes are made and/or you get a string of luck (or bad luck)  What should you do for these situations?

 

#1.  You die, and get a battle rez.  Do you summon your pet immediately or do you wait until you have 200 fury pop meta and get an instant summon pet?

 

#2.  You are approaching 1k fury AND you have the demonbolt debuff still.  Do you want to drop the debuff or do you launch a single massive demonbolt?

 

#3.   The trinket that has the on-use haste proc.  (Name escapes me right now as I'm at work).  When should that be used?

 

 

Thanks

Edited January 7, 2015 by Twinkielock

[Zinthar 2]

I know these situations aren't ideal but sometimes mistakes are made and/or you get a string of luck (or bad luck)  What should you do for these situations?

 

#1.  You die, and get a battle rez.  Do you summon your pet immediately or do you wait until you have 200 fury pop meta and get an instant summon pet?

 

#2.  You are approaching 1k fury AND you have the demonbolt debuff still.  Do you want to drop the debuff or do you launch a single massive demonbolt?

 

#3.   The trinket that has the on-use haste proc.  (Name escapes me right now as I'm at work).  When should that be used?

 

 

Thanks

 

I'm somewhat new to the Demo spec, but I've been playing the hell out of it for the past few weeks and have read through the Icy Veins Demo guide enough times that I practically have it memorized, so perhaps I can answer a few of those questions before someone more knowledgable comes along to give a definitive answer.

 

1) My guess is that you instantly start your fury-building rotation until you have enough fury to get the instant pet + doom on the relevant targets.  If you summon the pet first, you're missing out on a lot of Corruption, Doom, and Hand of Gul'dan up-time and their various benefits.  I'll try simulating this situation with a dummy. 

 

2) If you have 1k fury again, then your debuff is probably almost ready to expire, in which case you should almost certainly let it expire before using Demonbolt.  In the meantime, you could use some fury to apply/refresh doom, use touch of chaos if you need to refresh corruption, or use soul fire if you have MC procs.  If your cooldown on Dark Soul is about come up, then I'd definitely wait.

 

3) I just got that trinket, and my initial thoughts on how to use it are: Start normal opening rotation, then pop the trinket followed by the imp swarm glyph (if you're using it) & Dark Soul once you have your corruption & doom DoT's applied so that they receive the benefits of its use.  Then cast as many demonbolts as you can afford, followed by Soul Fire (provided you have MC procs) while under the effects of the haste trinket plus Dark Soul.  Using the trinket with imp swarm may shorten imp swarm's cooldown enough to squeeze an extra imp out per 2 minutes. 

 

I was avoiding using the imp swarm glyph prior to getting the trinket because I felt like it was really hurting my sustained DPS, but with the trinket it's probably a wash because you never actually get 6 imps out per 2 minutes in reality anyway; there's always a delay. 

 

I'd like to hear more feedback on this question in particular from more experienced Demo players, and add a question of my own:  For those who mainly play Demonology, which of the other two Warlock specs is the best complement to Demo to use as secondary?  In the dps charts I've seen, it looked like Affliction was doing pretty well in some of the encounters where Demo was near the bottom. 

[Twinkielock 15]

Isn't there a DPS loss with the imp swarm glyph?

[Zinthar 2]

Isn't there a DPS loss with the imp swarm glyph?

 

Over the long-run, yes (and by long-run I mean more than 1.5 mins or so).  I actually don't use it myself, opting instead for the glyph that boosts the Wrathguard's health by 20% and then combining that with the Sacrificial Pact talent for a shield that absorbs ~150k at my ilvl (634).

Edited January 8, 2015 by Zinthar

[Twinkielock 15]

I honestly don't remember the exact situation but I had a 3 or 4 stack of the demon bolt debuff, the timer had ~10 seconds and I was sitting at 950 fury.     That is the situation I wasn't sure if I should wait ~10 seconds to launch 4 of them, or to send a single massive one (and have some furry left over)