6.1 Demonology Guide

[spikeysquad 50]

Zinthar, I think that both specs have their strong points. Ultimately it's all about what your guild needs. Are you lacking overall raid DPS then consider Affliction for higher single target damage. Are you low in ranged and burst damage then Destro it is for Brackenspore/Imperator. Currently Kargarth is (or was) bugged as well on mythic and isn't recording some DoT damage on the kitties so Destro currently stronger there but on lower difficulty levels Affliction wins out on the single target. 

 

If you sent an extra DB Twinkielock then the cooldown would have reset for another 37 seconds (or whatever it is with your haste). Also if it was the case going to 5 stacks I gather is advised against because the increased damage is not worth the increased fury costs. 

 

I'm sure someone more qualified can comment but yes wasting fury is silly however you also want your Meta ready for when DB is off cooldown so this takes a little planning in advance 

Edited January 8, 2015 by spikeysquad

[Liquidsteel 279]

Burn fury on other spells whilst you wait. Simple.

[Paracel 165]

Is there a serious reason to play Demo over anything that is not Tectus?
 

[Deamux 4]

Is there a serious reason to play Demo over anything that is not Tectus?

 

 

Yea, its more fun to play on most fights than the other specs. (to me)

[spikeysquad 50]

I personally find Demo better for Kargarth as I often go to the stands but otherwise apart from what Deamux said and not having to keep respeccing through all 3 specs I cannot think of another reason. Demo has more physical damage for Ko'grah if that happens to be an issue but for my guild it has not been yet. I have the same 6/7hc progress as you Paracel and therefore not having seen the mythic fights yet I am only going by what I have read and by logs at this point in time.  

Edited January 9, 2015 by spikeysquad

[Oldtrout 7]

Didn't want to start a new thread. This was discussed here a while ago. I since kinda forgot about it / just got on with it, but have come back to the issue again. I'm wondering if I missed something that somebody found out about it which cleared the whole mess up.

 

Dark Soul giving 22.5% mastery. What's it all about? Somebody asked Celestalon at the beginning of december. He was his usual elaborate self, giving us a lot of insight and peace of mind on the subject (for the record, "30 points of mastery" is around 0.2%, not 23%). It's then discussed here and here, and I don't think any of the answers are coming from people who completely understand any of it.

 

It's not something that scales differently depending on what your current mastery stats are. I wear all my gear and I have 6% + 9.96% from items = 15.96%. I use DS and I get up to 38.46%. I take all my gear off and have just the base 6%. I use DS and I get up to 28.5%. It is always a 22.5% gain.

 

I don't understand Celestalon saying "it's a tooltip error", as if it should never have been telling us to expect 30% mastery increase. Why would they decide that Dark Soul for Demo should give 22.5% while the other 2 specs get 30% of their respective stats*? Why should the way it works be complicated beyond a flat 30% added to your current % of the stat?

 

Is it all bullshit and it's just a bug that they can't be bothered to fix? I'm not even bothered about getting my damage increased, I just think that if this is the bug that it feels like it is (and not a tooltip error / a complicated way of calculating stats that we couldn't possibly understand), that leaving it broken for so long is just another sad highlight of how much care and attention they're giving the class and the spec. Maybe 22.5% is an amount they feel is most balanced and they don't want to buff us - but a little (a lot) more clarity on the subject would make it easier to accept. Our major dps cooldown being 25% weaker than the tooltip states it should be is a pretty big issue that they should be communicating with us about.

 

*currently not specced affliction, unable to test it actually gets 30% haste after reading one of the comments in those threads saying they actually get slightly more than 30%.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Oldtrout

[Liquidsteel 279]

Affliction gets more than 30% Haste because Haste is multiplicative instead of additive. I don't know the formula, nor do I really care (I hate maths), but that's why.

 

It's why all those Haste procs in MoP became absurd with Snapshotting by the end of SoO and why Affliction became the brokenly overpowered spec that it did.

 

As for Demonology, I have no idea. How much Mastery do you get when you go into Meta? Is it perhaps based on how much rating that you actually get?

[Oldtrout 7]

The mastery % doesn't change at all when switching from caster to meta. There's no change whatsoever to the mastery rating when using either Dark Soul or Metamorphosis, just to the percentage.

 

Been trying to think of all the different ways the percentages could work together to transform a 30 into a 22.5 (the 6% caster / 12% meta from our main mastery tooltip, the extra 5% from demonic tactics) but I just don't see it. Oh, I hate maths too.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Oldtrout

[Zhoul 0]

This may have been covered already, but does anybody know of an addon or TMW string to keep track of Demonbolt cost? 

[Zagam 1,982]

This may have been covered already, but does anybody know of an addon or TMW string to keep track of Demonbolt cost? 

Google weak auras for Warlocks.  Tons of options to choose from.

[Zagam 1,982]

Affliction gets more than 30% Haste because Haste is multiplicative instead of additive. I don't know the formula, nor do I really care (I hate maths), but that's why.

Haste = Base Amount * Proc but you have to evaluate each of them as whole integers.  For example, 10% Haste needs to be valued as 1.10 and 30% Haste proc needs to be evaluated as 1.30.  Therefore, the formula is:

 

1.10 * 1.30 = 1.43, or 43% Haste.  Affliction's baseline 5% bonus to Haste should be included in the base formula - either way, it's all multiplicative but you won't see that formula as it's done behind the scenes to report your Haste in your character sheet.

[gahhda 95]

Didn't want to start a new thread. This was discussed here a while ago. I since kinda forgot about it / just got on with it, but have come back to the issue again. I'm wondering if I missed something that somebody found out about it which cleared the whole mess up.

 

Dark Soul giving 22.5% mastery. What's it all about? Somebody asked Celestalon at the beginning of december. He was his usual elaborate self, giving us a lot of insight and peace of mind on the subject (for the record, "30 points of mastery" is around 0.2%, not 23%). It's then discussed here and here, and I don't think any of the answers are coming from people who completely understand any of it.

 

It's not something that scales differently depending on what your current mastery stats are. I wear all my gear and I have 6% + 9.96% from items = 15.96%. I use DS and I get up to 38.46%. I take all my gear off and have just the base 6%. I use DS and I get up to 28.5%. It is always a 22.5% gain.

 

I don't understand Celestalon saying "it's a tooltip error", as if it should never have been telling us to expect 30% mastery increase. Why would they decide that Dark Soul for Demo should give 22.5% while the other 2 specs get 30% of their respective stats*? Why should the way it works be complicated beyond a flat 30% added to your current % of the stat?

 

Is it all bullshit and it's just a bug that they can't be bothered to fix? I'm not even bothered about getting my damage increased, I just think that if this is the bug that it feels like it is (and not a tooltip error / a complicated way of calculating stats that we couldn't possibly understand), that leaving it broken for so long is just another sad highlight of how much care and attention they're giving the class and the spec. Maybe 22.5% is an amount they feel is most balanced and they don't want to buff us - but a little (a lot) more clarity on the subject would make it easier to accept. Our major dps cooldown being 25% weaker than the tooltip states it should be is a pretty big issue that they should be communicating with us about.

 

*currently not specced affliction, unable to test it actually gets 30% haste after reading one of the comments in those threads saying they actually get slightly more than 30%.

 

Because if it gave 30% demonology would be op.

 

There isn't much point in figuring out *how* it gets to 22.5%. It's 22.5% and that's the intended amount.

Edited January 12, 2015 by gahhda

[Noveliss 1]

Question, if you have a 2min CD trinket (Copelands) do you want to cast that + DS when you Meta for the opener? Or do you still want to use it for HoG?

[Zagam 1,982]

Because if it gave 30% demonology would be op.

 

There isn't much point in figuring out *how* it gets to 22.5%. It's 22.5% and that's the intended amount.

HA - they made it 30%. 

 

Question, if you have a 2min CD trinket (Copelands) do you want to cast that + DS when you Meta for the opener? Or do you still want to use it for HoG?

You always want to stack cooldowns, especially if you're using Demonbolt.  If you're using the glyph, your Dark Soul should be macro'd with CC so that you activate it every other Dark Soul as long as you track the CD of the trinket if you're using AD.  As stated in the guide, you need to activate Dark Soul as you Meta in order to sustain the buff as you unload Demonbolts.  Using it before Meta will not buff your last Demonbolt unless you have lots of Haste.

 

Also, as a mechanical fact check, HoG ALWAYS snapshots caster Mastery and Chaos Wave ALWAYS snapshots Metamorphosis Mastery.  HoG does NOT update when you Meta, so timing HoG for buffs is much less important than making sure your Demonbolt is hitting hard.

[vaeevictiss 17]

wanting to look into demo again, is the info in the OP still accurate?

[Furyio 3]

I guess you all should prepare for an influx of people moving to Demo, like me ;) 

[Virzaol 0]

Sad, but true. Just because the buff number is highest, people will likely flock to it without a second thought, even though Destro and Affliction are ALSO buffed and perfectly playable.

[Stunlocked 8]

Sad, but true. Just because the buff number is highest, people will likely flock to it without a second thought, even though Destro and Affliction are ALSO buffed and perfectly playable.

The latest Simcraft is showing Demonology waaaaaay head of the other specs (and most other classes).   Destruction was buffed - but it was a very small buff.

 

I think the real question will be whether or not the simcraft numbers are accurate.  We'll find out once the servers go live (or are they live already?)

[Mero 0]

The real question is: why Simcraft simulated us with Supremacy instead of Synergy?

[Furyio 3]

Sad, but true. Just because the buff number is highest, people will likely flock to it without a second thought, even though Destro and Affliction are ALSO buffed and perfectly playable.

 

Well the differences between all three specs were so marginal beforehand, I just stuck with Destro, even though Demo is my favourite. Leveled the WoD content as Demo, but it was so garbage on max I dumped it. 

 

I'm happy to come back to Demo for however long this lasts, but unfortuantely I'm not really in a position where I can just "have fun" with whatever spec I want. The guild want to get into progression mode ahead of Foundry so that means min maxing and playing the most optimal specs. 

[Soulzar 42]

I have been playing demo on anything I could.  I am sooo excited for this buff!  Demo is so much damn fun

[Zagam 1,982]

The real question is: why Simcraft simulated us with Supremacy instead of Synergy?

Synergy has RNG tied to it. It's also very very close single target which is what is baseline simulated.

[Noveliss 1]

WTB AoE crash course and any tips for Highmaul encounters

Kargath: I imagine I put dots on the tiger if I'm not going up and continue single target DPS

Butcher: Single Target GG

Brack: Keep dots on Brack and Flesh eater, how do I deal with Spore Shooters?

Tectus: Pop Cd's with 2 shards and 8 motes, cata + ToC?

Twins: Keep dots up on the two I assume

Ko'Ragh: Single target + maybe ToC adds?

Imp: Assuming destro

Am I correct on most of this? Am I missing anything? 

Edited January 13, 2015 by Noveliss

[Bombsauce 3]

WTB AoE crash course and any tips for Highmaul encounters

HoG x2, meta + cata, Mannoroth's fury + immo aura, chaos wave on cd, fel/wrathstorm, gg

[Bombsauce 3]

Demo isn't optimal for Brack, but if you must, your job should be the big add and the boss. Leave the sporeshooters to the dps with more burst.