zakkord 0 Report post Posted November 2, 2014 (edited) Hi, i've been reading some controversial stuff about this. Should i open with Garrote on pull(With Subterfuge talent) ? Should I be casting Garrote during Shadow Dance ? During Vanish/Subterfuge ? I've read that Garrote is useless atm compared to Ambush. Thanks. Edited November 2, 2014 by zakkord Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carrn 284 Report post Posted November 3, 2014 With the bleed, Hemo does more damage than Garrote so it's not worth using at all Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zyc 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2014 if you are speaking pve, i'm only use in opener garrote > ambush Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
duncjam 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2014 Totally agree with zyc, As long as sub rogues have Sanguarity Veins, which has %20 damage increased, my opening is like, pre, s&d, garrote, hemo, so i have my %20 damage buff already, garrote is up, s&d is up like 20sec, so its time to burst. get on shadow dance, and spam Ambush, u will have like 4-5 ambuses, depend ur gear, which will all like have %20 more damage. After that u can continue ur normal rotation with rupture. Ambush is the most important, and th most damage skill for sub rogues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carrn 284 Report post Posted November 3, 2014 Yeah that's why you open with Hemo. It's better in every way over Garrote 1) More damage 2) less energy cost My opening routine goes like this: Premed > SnD > Prepot > Stealth Hemo > Ambush > Ambush Prepping SnD before combat allows your energy regen to start right away. Hemo applies a stronger DoT than Garrote does as well as the SV damage boost for your 2 Amushes. The only other opening which makes sense would be Prepot > Stealth > Hemo > Premed+Ambush Macro > Rupture > Ambush Do note that at level 100, Shadow Focus is showing better results than Subterfuge, so all of this is effectively out the window in a couple weeks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trvp 0 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Why is Shadow Focus > Subterfuge on Lv100 ? I thought it's the other way 'round. Since you can have 130 energy you will have less problems getting 2-3 ambushes out of Subterfuge. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious why. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carrn 284 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 I believe it's a couple reasons: 1) a lot more of our damage will come from our bleeds, due to the whole Ambush and BS multistrike hits triggering an instant tick from them, so it's less important for us to maintain Find Weakness because bleeds ignore armor anyways 2) The reduced cooldown with the Improved Vanish perk allows for an effectively free Ambush, which ties in really nicely to the point above, but also allows for more frequent Find Weakness when you do end up able to sneak in some Evis casts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NauFirefox 0 Report post Posted November 22, 2014 I always open with Premed > SnD > Prepot > Garrote, the Find Weakness buff I think is way more worth it over the little extra damage hemo does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carrn 284 Report post Posted November 22, 2014 Ambush hits harder than Garrote, and Hemo hits for a little more than Garrote when Find Weakness is up (like it is just after using Ambush. Given that, my opening is Ambush > Hemo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lipsinch 46 Report post Posted November 28, 2014 Carrn, just clarifying your posts: This below is with Subterfuge: [...] My opening routine goes like this: Premed > SnD > Prepot > Stealth Hemo > Ambush > Ambush Prepping SnD before combat allows your energy regen to start right away. Hemo applies a stronger DoT than Garrote does as well as the SV damage boost for your 2 Amushes. The only other opening which makes sense would be Prepot > Stealth > Hemo > Premed+Ambush Macro > Rupture > Ambush Do note that at level 100, Shadow Focus is showing better results than Subterfuge, so all of this is effectively out the window in a couple weeks This below is with Shadow Focus: Ambush hits harder than Garrote, and Hemo hits for a little more than Garrote when Find Weakness is up (like it is just after using Ambush. Given that, my opening is Ambush > Hemo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carrn 284 Report post Posted November 29, 2014 (edited) Just remember that when I posted that, we were still at level 90 during 6.0 and I had the Haste to do an opening like that with Subterfuge. I seriously doubt that this is case anymore, but might be possible once Mythic gear is available. I haven't tried playing with Subterfuge yet, except for when we needed more CC for certain pulls with a squishy tank so I could get some stuns off, so I don't know what my new opener using it would be. You could try Prepot > Stealth > Hemo > Premed+ambush > Rupture > Ambush... The energy restore from the Rupture at 5cp might be enough to allow you another Ambush, but I'm not sure. I'm out of town and can't give it a test Edit: Totally forgot about Glyph of Energy... I'm relatively sure that the opener with Rupture would work this way, but I'm not sure about the one mentioned earlier. Edited November 29, 2014 by Carrn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites