Garrote usage for Subtlety

[zakkord 0]

Hi, i've been reading some controversial stuff about this.

Should i open with Garrote on pull(With Subterfuge talent) ? Should I be casting Garrote during Shadow Dance ? During Vanish/Subterfuge ?

 

I've read that Garrote is useless atm compared to Ambush.

Thanks.

Edited November 2, 2014 by zakkord

[Carrn 281]

With the bleed, Hemo does more damage than Garrote so it's not worth using at all

[zyc 0]

if you are speaking pve, i'm only use in opener garrote > ambush 

[duncjam 0]

Totally agree with zyc,

 

As long as sub rogues have Sanguarity Veins, which has %20 damage increased, my opening is like,

pre, s&d, garrote, hemo, so i have my %20 damage buff already, garrote is up, s&d is up like 20sec, so its time to burst.

get on shadow dance, and spam Ambush, u will have like 4-5 ambuses, depend ur gear, which will all like have %20 more damage. After that u can continue ur normal rotation with rupture.

Ambush is the most important, and th most damage skill for sub rogues.

[Carrn 281]

Yeah that's why you open with Hemo. It's better in every way over Garrote 

 

1) More damage

 

2) less energy cost

 

My opening routine goes like this:

 

Premed > SnD > Prepot > Stealth

 

Hemo > Ambush > Ambush

 

Prepping SnD before combat allows your energy regen to start right away. Hemo applies a stronger DoT than Garrote does as well as the SV damage boost for your 2 Amushes. 

 

The only other opening which makes sense would be

 

Prepot > Stealth > Hemo > Premed+Ambush Macro > Rupture > Ambush

 

Do note that at level 100, Shadow Focus is showing better results than Subterfuge, so all of this is effectively out the window in a couple weeks

[Trvp 0]

Why is Shadow Focus > Subterfuge on Lv100 ? I thought it's the other way 'round. Since you can have 130 energy you will have less problems getting 2-3 ambushes out of Subterfuge. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious why.

[Carrn 281]

I believe it's a couple reasons:

 

1) a lot more of our damage will come from our bleeds, due to the whole Ambush and BS multistrike hits triggering an instant tick from them, so it's less important for us to maintain Find Weakness because bleeds ignore armor anyways

 

2) The reduced cooldown with the Improved Vanish perk allows for an effectively free Ambush, which ties in really nicely to the point above, but also allows for more frequent Find Weakness when you do end up able to sneak in some Evis casts

[NauFirefox 0]

I always open with Premed > SnD > Prepot > Garrote, the Find Weakness buff I think is way more worth it over the little extra damage hemo does.

[Carrn 281]

Ambush hits harder than Garrote, and Hemo hits for a little more than Garrote when Find Weakness is up (like it is just after using Ambush.

 

Given that, my opening is Ambush > Hemo

[lipsinch 46]

Carrn, just clarifying your posts:

 

This below is with Subterfuge:

 

[...]

 

My opening routine goes like this:

 

Premed > SnD > Prepot > Stealth

 

Hemo > Ambush > Ambush

 

Prepping SnD before combat allows your energy regen to start right away. Hemo applies a stronger DoT than Garrote does as well as the SV damage boost for your 2 Amushes. 

 

The only other opening which makes sense would be

 

Prepot > Stealth > Hemo > Premed+Ambush Macro > Rupture > Ambush

 

Do note that at level 100, Shadow Focus is showing better results than Subterfuge, so all of this is effectively out the window in a couple weeks

 

 

This below is with Shadow Focus:

 

Ambush hits harder than Garrote, and Hemo hits for a little more than Garrote when Find Weakness is up (like it is just after using Ambush.

 

Given that, my opening is Ambush > Hemo

[Carrn 281]

Just remember that when I posted that, we were still at level 90 during 6.0 and I had the Haste to do an opening like that with Subterfuge. I seriously doubt that this is case anymore, but might be possible once Mythic gear is available. 

 

I haven't tried playing with Subterfuge yet, except for when we needed more CC for certain pulls with a squishy tank so I could get some stuns off, so I don't know what my new opener using it would be.

 

You could try Prepot > Stealth > Hemo > Premed+ambush > Rupture > Ambush... The energy restore from the Rupture at 5cp might be enough to allow you another Ambush, but I'm not sure. I'm out of town and can't give it a test

 

Edit: Totally forgot about Glyph of Energy... I'm relatively sure that the opener with Rupture would work this way, but I'm not sure about the one mentioned earlier. 

Edited November 29, 2014 by Carrn