Malkavianic

[Blood] Stat priority

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Hi!

 

I already tried to start an discussion about this in the guide-section but it seems a bit death (ho ho ho) over there, so I will retry it here.

 

On the main page for the guides, you will find the following stat priority:

 

1.1. Survival

  1. Bonus Armor;
  2. Strength;
  3. Mastery;
  4. Versatility;
  5. Haste;
  6. Critical Strike.

1.2. DPS-oriented

  1. Bonus Armor;
  2. Strength;
  3. Mastery;
  4. Multistrike;
  5. Versatility;
  6. Haste;
  7. Critical Strike.

Well now, I have no idea how crit ends up at the worst stat a tank can get, as the bonus crit value is added directly to our parry-value, and I guess an additional boost of damage prevention can not be that wrong at all.

 

@Storm

You mentioned in the thread back then in October, that crit really was missed out here, do you know about any updates regarding this? Was there a buff/nerf regarding crit?

 

 

Basically, I guess we can tell without doubt, that mastery is (of course right behind the bonus armor) our main stat to get.

In a reference thread here, it was already mentioned, that multistrike itself does not proc an additional life leech nor a bloodshield for our deathstrike.

So this stat is so far for me an dmg-boost only, and thus not relevant, as I don't really care about my dmg as tank.

 

Remaining: Versatility/Haste

Versatility is for me more or less a bonus stat. If I can't grab on Mastery or crit, I prefer this one for the additional dmg reduction.

 

Well, now there is haste.. I am not sure if - as a tank at least - this stat is of that big help here. Of course it boost the rune regeneration etc... but I guess this one as one of the least usefull stats at all.

 

So for me personally, playing defensively, I would suggest the following stat order:

  1. Bonus Armor;
  2. Strength;
  3. Mastery;
  4. Critical Strike;
  5. Versatility;
  6. Haste

What are your thoughts about it?

What stats do you think are more important?

Maybe crit is also scaling too bad, so that versatility is more efficient than crit? Someone maybe knows more about this?

Edited by Malkavianic

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Crit means submitting yourself to RNG. Even if you somehow manage to get 50% parry with crit and strength (and neglecting other stats), you can basically toss a coin: you either avoid the hit, or you get its full power. Note that Death Strike heal cannot crit either. DKs have no significant side effect tied to scoring a crit with any ability, like e.g. prot warriors do.

 

However, crit being the "weakest" does not necessarily mean it is "bad". All stats interact with each other at some level and you really cannot avoid having some of them on gear. Unless you are, ofc pursuing other goals, like making a BiS set for challenge modes, where everything gets scaled - but that is another chapter entirely.

 

Bonus armor, mastery, strength (and versatility) do increase potency of your Death Strike healing. Multistrike indirectly increases the frequency you can use Death Strike: more RP from auto multistrikes -> more RP spending -> more opportunities to triger your rune regen talent. Haste directly increases the frequency you can use Death Strike, with faster rune regeneration, although just a little. Crit has little to nothing to do with either potency of DS or its frequency.

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OK so this made my life a lot easier. it seems Simcraft now automatically does stat weights for a whole bunch of stuff at once. here are some screenshots of stat weights for various aspects of tanking. This is all done with T17H gear, 10000 iterations, light movement, elite player skill.

 

First up is Healing taken per second, this is basically the most important metric for a DK tank. It's taking into account DTPS - Self Healing to determine how much each stat reduces our total burden on the healers. 

UASyCTA.png

 

Here's the stat weights for purely self healing

BxPNOcF.png

 

Here are the stat weights for DTPS, this can sometimes be important because DTPS in a way will contribute to effective health, where as HPS doesn't. So in a situation where you're basically getting killed every third hit (mythic butcher) pure DTPS and EH could become a little bit more important than self healing

brDFjLd.png

 

And finally here are the stat weights for our DPS.

pN1W8nJ.png

 


Some Takeaways from these Sim's

 

- How much do you want to bet most people have been looking at DTPS and not HTPS when they write/approve guides? because Str and Haste look really strong in terms of reducing our overall burden on healers. Str is even better than Bonus armor. I think Haste is a little bit skewed on the HTPS chart though, because it definitely isn't above mastery.

- Crit is messed up on the HTPS graph. Crit is 0.63 on the DTPS graph, obviously a 0 on HPS, but that should leave it somewhere around a 0.3 at least for HTPS, which would put it roughly equal to mastery and Versatility overall.

- Mastery is double dipping which is why it doesn't seem to add up. Absorbs from mastery will count towards lower DTPS, and it also shows up as healing on the HPS. But it should be above Haste on HTPS, I'm not sure why it got put lower.

- Bonus armor is or best DPS secondary stat.

 


Based on these sims, and moving around a couple things that just don't seem entirely right I'd put our priority like this

 

Purely Defensive:

Str/AP > Bonus Armor > Mastery > Haste > Crit > Vers > Stam

 

Yolo DPS Tank:

Str > Wdps > Bonus Armor > Multistrike > Crit > Vers = Mastery = Haste

 

A good hybrid of both:

Str >Wdps >  Bonus Armor > Mastery > Crit = Haste > Vers = Multistrike

 

The hybrid spec mostly favors Tank spefic stats first, the main difference is that multistrike is ok if you have some, whereas from a purely defensive perspective you want to avoid all multistrike at all costs. There's also a change with crit=haste as opposed to Haste > Crit.

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First of all: WOW and thanks for the work! Wouldn't have thought for such a detailed answer.

 

Finally I can be sure to farm in first place of course mastery equip, but I do not really have to be troubled about the secondary stat as I would not have thought that also haste would be such a strong defensive stat (and also I was not entirely sure about crit too... but waiing for mastery+versatility somehow is not a real option... that way I would have nearly no equip from the raid at all ...).

 

Thanks again for your efforts!

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Hi,

I'm sorry for my poor english.

I've read some thread about BDk's optimisation and each one is different about the StatWeight and the stats prioriti

So i'm lost, really.
I've played my Dk on every MoP's tier, no issue Mastery>haste>Avoidance
 

But now...

>I've read some here (Icy Veins) and there is 2-4 different optimisation.

>There is the MrRobot's one : Str>Barm>Stam>Armor>Mastery>MS>Hast>Versa>Crit

 

>There is a complete tuto on Mmo-Champ, i've learn some tips there. His optimisation is like MrRobot's one.

For DPS: Str (4.74) >> Bonus Armour (3.74) > Multistrike (3.39) >> Crit (2.48) > Versatility (2.06) = Haste (2.03) > Mastery (1.77)

 

For Mitigation: Bonus Armour > Str > Mastery > Haste > Versatility > Crit > Multistrike*

 

So, i'would like to go on Str=Barmor>Armor>Mastery>MS >/= Hast>Crit

But your Optimisation is different again. :D
I see the maths. Why we have +5%MS if it's so low on our mitigation? i know, Bli² screwd up wit us (thanks the -33% BB damage) but, it's the only reason ?(i know how MS work ^^ it is a small synergy with haste and without passive Crit=MS for DPS only)

 

So, why we don't have 1 optimisation, everyone agrred with it?


again, sorry for my english, hope you'll understand and can read me.

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Hi,

I'm sorry for my poor english.

I've read some thread about BDk's optimisation and each one is different about the StatWeight and the stats prioriti

So i'm lost, really.

I've played my Dk on every MoP's tier, no issue Mastery>haste>Avoidance

 

But now...

>I've read some here (Icy Veins) and there is 2-4 different optimisation.

>There is the MrRobot's one : Str>Barm>Stam>Armor>Mastery>MS>Hast>Versa>Crit

 

>There is a complete tuto on Mmo-Champ, i've learn some tips there. His optimisation is like MrRobot's one.

For DPS: Str (4.74) >> Bonus Armour (3.74) > Multistrike (3.39) >> Crit (2.48) > Versatility (2.06) = Haste (2.03) > Mastery (1.77)

 

For Mitigation: Bonus Armour > Str > Mastery > Haste > Versatility > Crit > Multistrike*

 

So, i'would like to go on Str=Barmor>Armor>Mastery>MS >/= Hast>Crit

But your Optimisation is different again. biggrin.png

I see the maths. Why we have +5%MS if it's so low on our mitigation? i know, Bli² screwd up wit us (thanks the -33% BB damage) but, it's the only reason ?(i know how MS work ^^ it is a small synergy with haste and without passive Crit=MS for DPS only)

 

So, why we don't have 1 optimisation, everyone agrred with it?

again, sorry for my english, hope you'll understand and can read me.

 

 Hi!

 

In first place, there are always different ways in playstyles.

As Storm already mentioned with his 3 suggestions:

 

Purely Defensive:

Str/AP > Bonus Armor > Mastery > Haste > Crit > Vers > Stam

 

Yolo DPS Tank:

Str > Wdps > Bonus Armor > Multistrike > Crit > Vers = Mastery = Haste

 

A good hybrid of both:

Str >Wdps >  Bonus Armor > Mastery > Crit = Haste > Vers = Multistrike

 

Here we have 3 different styles which basically all are valid to use.

It is depending on the player itself, if he wants to support the healers with all he got (Purely Defensive), if he wants to help the raid dealing bonus dmg (Yolo DPS Tank) or if he tries to find a more balanced way (Hybdrid).

 

There is never an "one and only valid way of playing a wow class". There is often (always?) different ways to handle and adjust the equip/stats/rotations.

Best example I guess would be the discussions around for frost and unholy DK in this forums.

There were different setups (remembering necroblight vs. PL+Defile) which were prefered by the people... on the one the side due to the theoretical dmg output, on the other side due to the better feeling of a rotation.

We read of people which can do very good dmg with both, but were not able to get to the possible dmg values with the other way as they are already used to their rotation. And that's fine in my opinion (as long as the overall performance in raids does not suffer too much from it).

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Thanks for that detailed breakdown on the stats.

 

I've a DK alt that might shortly become my main, as a Blood DK. And this has been a great read getting to understand the stat prioirties, which have been mighty confusing accross the board to follow this expansion, with so many resources quoting different things. 

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Gah! Everything I read on Blood DKs are so... conflicting! I'm still not sure how to feel.

Somehow in my mind, the Hybrid way to go was Mast>Multi>Blahblah but then AskMrRobot's default stat priorities are different and put Koragh's weap in front of Imperator's which didn't make sense to me...

Then none of these stat priorities mention where Stam is meant to go! AskMrRobot is telling me to gem Stam but I always feel that Mastery is the best stat after Bonus armor...

After looking at all these stat weights, stam is apparently not so useful, then reading some comments made it feel like Crit isn't useful but then the stat weights are saying Crit IS useful... can someone tell me if its safe to use the stat weights in the posts above to put into AskMrRobot?

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The reason I included these 4 tables is because there are a lot of ways you can look at DK tanking. Stat weights will change depending on gear also. I did these sims based on T17H gear because I assumed 670 ilvl is probably more appropriate for most readers here than simming for 685, which is what most sims are probably doing. Stat weights can also be subjective depending on what you are trying to do. The purely defense stat weights are straight out of the sim, same for the purely dps stats, but my hybrid weights are completely subjective, it's what I feel would be  good balance of defensive stats + offensive stats to get the most total numbers out of your DK.

 

Stam is also important for us, but it doesn't have much direct effect on HPS or DTPS other than it's interaction with Blood Shield. It will affect TMI, which is another indicator I haven't included. TMI is essentially used to determine how spikey our damage intake is, and more health means spikey damage is a lower % of your total HP.

 

I have to admit though, I don't completely trust the numbers I got for HTPS. It was recently added to simcraft, and I get what it's trying to sim, but some of the number it came up with don't make sense when you look at the HPS and DTPS charts.

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I'll use this thread for a question for BDK and the next 6.1.

I see that :

 

Death Knight (Forums, Talent Calculator)

  • Blood Boil now does 48% of AP damage, down from 72%.

Frost
  • Icy Talons gives 20% more of the Haste stat from all sources, up from 5%.

Unholy
  • Festering Strike now does 275% of weapon damage, up from 215%.
  • Scourge Strike now does (140% of weapon damage) (was 110%) Physical damage and (70% of weapon damage) (was 55%) Shadow damage.

Major Glyphs
  • Glyph of Runic Power - Whenever you are struck by a movement-impairing effect, you will generate 2 Runic Power every 1 sec for 5 sec, down from 3 Runic Power every 1 sec for 5 sec.

So, my concerne is BB again. The nerf is the one we take in our face in the last HotFix, or it's another one?
Because we don't have our compensation for the ST loss :( (probably never get one)

Well, i think we'll see it later. Pal&War'dps seems Insane ATM so, nerf them or up Drood/DK..?
Juste my mind sorry :)

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It is rather confusing how they can post notes like this when balance on Live comes in small 'Hotfixes'...

In any case, based on a hybrid survivability/DPS or survivability heavy Blood DK, can someone post stat weights so I can actually get an accurate idea of how I want to gear my DK rather than having things skewed by the Stamina favoured default Ask Mr Robot stat list?

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It is rather confusing how they can post notes like this when balance on Live comes in small 'Hotfixes'...

In any case, based on a hybrid survivability/DPS or survivability heavy Blood DK, can someone post stat weights so I can actually get an accurate idea of how I want to gear my DK rather than having things skewed by the Stamina favoured default Ask Mr Robot stat list?

If you will have a look above to the post from Storm I guess you should find all needed informations.

Not only did he create the statistics (HTPS, DTPS etc....) but also gave suggested stat weights for different styles:

 

 

Based on these sims, and moving around a couple things that just don't seem entirely right I'd put our priority like this

 

Purely Defensive:

Str/AP > Bonus Armor > Mastery > Haste > Crit > Vers > Stam

 

Yolo DPS Tank:

Str > Wdps > Bonus Armor > Multistrike > Crit > Vers = Mastery = Haste

 

A good hybrid of both:

Str >Wdps >  Bonus Armor > Mastery > Crit = Haste > Vers = Multistrike

 

The hybrid spec mostly favors Tank spefic stats first, the main difference is that multistrike is ok if you have some, whereas from a purely defensive perspective you want to avoid all multistrike at all costs. There's also a change with crit=haste as opposed to Haste > Crit.

Edited by Malkavianic

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Based on these sims, and moving around a couple things that just don't seem entirely right I'd put our priority like this

 

Purely Defensive:

Str/AP > Bonus Armor > Mastery > Haste > Crit > Vers > Stam

 

Yolo DPS Tank:

Str > Wdps > Bonus Armor > Multistrike > Crit > Vers = Mastery = Haste

 

A good hybrid of both:

Str >Wdps >  Bonus Armor > Mastery > Crit = Haste > Vers = Multistrike

 

The hybrid spec mostly favors Tank spefic stats first, the main difference is that multistrike is ok if you have some, whereas from a purely defensive perspective you want to avoid all multistrike at all costs. There's also a change with crit=haste as opposed to Haste > Crit.

 

I've followed your logic mostly but why did Versatility suddenly drop to just about last in all 3 when you combined? It seemed to be consistently middle of the pack in each sim.

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Versa is not bad (for as far as i know) but it's expensive and don't really have a synergie like MS+Haste

I think it's why Versa don't have a hight stat weight.

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Expensive? I don't really know how to reply to that. I'm also not sure that synergy has much at all to do with how Multistrike/Haste are ranked.

 

Maybe someone has a clearer idea?

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Versatility isn't a bad stat, it's just a thoroughly average stat in all regards.

 

The avoidance we gain from Crit is basically equal to the damage reduction from versatility, but crit gives us more damage than versatility does. So crit is by far a better stat than versatility.

 

Haste is just slightly lower than versatility for dps, but Haste is way better than versatility for our self healing. I'm actually surprised how high the stat weight is for haste for self healing.

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