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[Archived] S20 Hearthstone Face Hunter BrM

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This thread is for comments about our Face Hunter Deck for BrM.

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Why exactly was Leeroy Jenkins included in this deck when it wasn't included in the Naxx/GvG Face Hunter Deck? It drives the dust cost up alot.

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Why exactly was Leeroy Jenkins included in this deck when it wasn't included in the Naxx/GvG Face Hunter Deck? It drives the dust cost up alot.

From the guide:

 

"Leeroy Jenkins is included in the deck as a finisher, due to it's huge damage potential and fantastic synergy with Unleash the Hounds. This deck is so aggressive however, that you should not hesitate to simply play out Leeroy on curve if you don't have any better options."

 

"If you do not have access to Leeroy Jenkins you can use a second Arcane Golem as a replacement."

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The main reason for the change is that more people are teching Healbots etc to deal with Face Hunter than they used to, so the increased damage potential is needed sometimes.

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works well but is insanly boring to play hope meta chance someday

facehunter mechmage combo druid meh

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People used to say Mech Mage is cancerous, then what is this? People who play face hunter should really feel bad for themselves. I don't really understand why to play the game if it doesn't bring any fun (and most of face hunter so called "players" easily admit the deck is boring and they don't enjoy it at all). It's definitely not the case of budget, because Mech Mage Mech Shaman or Zoo are at simillar or even lower cost, they all all good enough to hit legend, even arguably much better than this cancer, but face hunters is still much more than all of those decks. The only reason I can see is that it's easier to play this and some of wins are really cheap if opp can't handle early aggression. Doesn't change the fact that such reason to play boring, cnacerous deck that doesn't provide any fun and is hated by entire community means nothing to me.

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People used to say Mech Mage is cancerous, then what is this? People who play face hunter should really feel bad for themselves. I don't really understand why to play the game if it doesn't bring any fun (and most of face hunter so called "players" easily admit the deck is boring and they don't enjoy it at all). It's definitely not the case of budget, because Mech Mage Mech Shaman or Zoo are at simillar or even lower cost, they all all good enough to hit legend, even arguably much better than this cancer, but face hunters is still much more than all of those decks. The only reason I can see is that it's easier to play this and some of wins are really cheap if opp can't handle early aggression. Doesn't change the fact that such reason to play boring, cnacerous deck that doesn't provide any fun and is hated by entire community means nothing to me.

actually the reason people play this deck is because games are extremely fast(you usually win or lose around round 6) and you can get gold more quickly with it,i agree that it's extremely boring to play and frustrating to play against,but people must accept that this sort of deck is necessary for game balancing.decks like face hunter are the reason you can't make overly greedy control decks filled with late game threats and dominate over anything.

 

and there are plenty of ways to counter face hunter,honestly.

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actually the reason people play this deck is because games are extremely fast(you usually win or lose around round 6) and you can get gold more quickly with it,i agree that it's extremely boring to play and frustrating to play against,but people must accept that this sort of deck is necessary for game balancing.decks like face hunter are the reason you can't make overly greedy control decks filled with late game threats and dominate over anything.

 

and there are plenty of ways to counter face hunter,honestly.

Mech Mage and Zoo are very aggressive as well, maybe games don't last 7 turns or shorter usually (but still they sometimes last if you open good), however your win ratio is going to be higher as they are better decks. So you still farm gold very easily, but at least you don't get bored after single game and you don't feel bad for yourself. Also I played yesterday vs face hunter player on legend (I'm currently at 2), who had golden Leeroy and other cards, so I don't really believe he needs to farm gold, especially on ranked, especially on legend. He just wants to be a cheap winner, nothing else. Gold is the only reason I would maybe accept such cancer, but the fact is you meet Hunter on the every stage of ladder, so it's impossible they all do it just for gold.

 

And I agree aggressive decks are needed, but Face Hunter is just a ridiculous deviation. It breaks the rules of the game, because they don't trade and they generally don't care about any resources except LP, unless such behaviour would cost them the game. It's like playing vs someone on cheats or vs someone who has completely different rule applied. In card games you always assume your opponent is reasonable and thus you can analyze different scenarios. But vs face hunter you feel like playing vs monkey, so logic will not help you (unless you consider no logic as a logic).

 

No need to tell me about counters, because I'm not writting all of this because I'm having troubles v Hunters. Tbh it's one of my favourite amtch-ups, because I know the game is going to be quick and end with my win. I just wanted to express my disgust, that's all.

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I think Face Juggler is too slow. You never get to attack with it as it killed off imediately. Any knifes it throws the turn it's summoned typically hit enemy minions. Haunted Creeper is also pretty useless.

I play with 4x axes and 2x Southsea Deckhands and think it's much better.

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Mech Mage and Zoo are very aggressive as well, maybe games don't last 7 turns or shorter usually (but still they sometimes last if you open good), however your win ratio is going to be higher as they are better decks. So you still farm gold very easily, but at least you don't get bored after single game and you don't feel bad for yourself. Also I played yesterday vs face hunter player on legend (I'm currently at 2), who had golden Leeroy and other cards, so I don't really believe he needs to farm gold, especially on ranked, especially on legend. He just wants to be a cheap winner, nothing else. Gold is the only reason I would maybe accept such cancer, but the fact is you meet Hunter on the every stage of ladder, so it's impossible they all do it just for gold.

 

And I agree aggressive decks are needed, but Face Hunter is just a ridiculous deviation. It breaks the rules of the game, because they don't trade and they generally don't care about any resources except LP, unless such behaviour would cost them the game. It's like playing vs someone on cheats or vs someone who has completely different rule applied. In card games you always assume your opponent is reasonable and thus you can analyze different scenarios. But vs face hunter you feel like playing vs monkey, so logic will not help you (unless you consider no logic as a logic).

 

No need to tell me about counters, because I'm not writting all of this because I'm having troubles v Hunters. Tbh it's one of my favourite amtch-ups, because I know the game is going to be quick and end with my win. I just wanted to express my disgust, that's all.

This might sound a little off to someone so full of himself like u, but ur opinión about face hunter isn't the law. I actually enjoy playing this deck, I find it entertaintning and challenging because very calculated strategies are needed and one poor decision in early game will probably cost the whole thing. I'm sorry to bring this to u, but not everyone thinks the way u do, and I honestly believe that ur lack of empathy in transmitting ur opinions is something u should be ashamed of. I know internet gives u anonymity, but doesn't give u the right to be a bully nor to accuse, based on ur personal opinion, others of acting as ridiculously, being a cancer or an embarrassment. I find ur lack of touch disturbing and offensive. If u hate this deck, what's the point of make a comment here? just make others feel bad about themselves? Do u enjoy creating conflict and insulting? That's so sad, I might play a deck that's a "cancer" for hearthstone, but u represent the cancer of internet.

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the deck might take skill to play at a high level(if a professional player says so,i will believe so),but it's also the kind of deck that allows people who can't otherwise make it past rank 18 to reach rank 8 or some rank they should not be able to.

 

still,whether the deck is hard to play or not is debatable,but i don't think anyone can deny that it is one of the most frustrating decks to play against.and it's also not fun to play at all,at least for me.i can totally understand using the deck in ranked mode if you think it's a good choice for the current meta,but it annoys the crap out of me when i face face hunters while trying to chill with stupid decks like aggro priest in casual.like what's the point?casual mode is supposed to be where you mess around with the game not giving a crap about winning.i end up just straight up conceding on turn one when that happens.

 

but hey,it's a game.do whatever suits you.

Edited by batanete

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Honestly, the most common use of Casual is just people trying to clear their daily quests as quick as possible, hence the Face Hunters.

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King Crush fit in will for Leeroy Jenkins if anyone is wondering

Except, that King Krush is 9 mana, and it will just sit in your hand for a long long time and Leeroy ia 5 mana and can be used for several combos.

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King Crush fit in will for Leeroy Jenkins if anyone is wondering

I absolutely would not recommend this in any circumstance. Just put the 2nd Arcane Golem back in.

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man im having a tough time getting this deck going. bad mulligans can really make or break this deck and control decks are wiping the floor with me. every other face hunter i play is getting a much faster start than i am as well, which is annoying.

 

maybe im just having a bad run of luck, but i was doing better with a xrappy paladin deck i was using last month. im stuck hovering around 18-19 on the ladder. i dont have Leeroy, but i doubt its making that much of a difference.

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man im having a tough time getting this deck going. bad mulligans can really make or break this deck and control decks are wiping the floor with me. every other face hunter i play is getting a much faster start than i am as well, which is annoying.

 

maybe im just having a bad run of luck, but i was doing better with a xrappy paladin deck i was using last month. im stuck hovering around 18-19 on the ladder. i dont have Leeroy, but i doubt its making that much of a difference.

 

(sottle can correct me on this)

 

you're probably doing something wrong.i don't really enjoy playing this deck,but i can usually rank up insanely fast with it(i use the exact same version on this site,except that i'm using a second golem instead of leeroy,as i don't have him).personally i find that you should go face 90% of the time,but there are instances where you should trade(like trading leper gnomes into 2 life creatures to save your more important cards like knife juggler) and when you are forced to go for board control(example:you get outstarted by a deck such as tempo/mech mage,you will more than likely lose if you don't try to clear the way for your creatures).against other face hunters it's also fine not go for an all out damage race if you feel like you won't win by doing so(especially because explosive trap or unleash can wreck you if you commit to the board too much).

 

apart from this, i also find that the general rule of "using hero power EVERY SINGLE TURN after turn 4" is also crucial,as you're outputting damage at no card expense.

 

hope this helps.

Edited by batanete

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^ Very good advice.

To put it in slightly more complex terms, here's how you win with Face Hunter in a nutshell.

- Play out your hand up until turn 3, making efficient trades to cement board advantage.
- Look at your hand, count how much damage you have, look at how much health the opponent has.
- Make an estimate of how much damage you can reasonably expect to draw, and how much health the opponent can reasonably be expected to gain.
- Use those numbers to calculate the amount of Hero Powers needed to win the game.
- Work out how to Hero Power that many times over the remaining turns in the game.

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Wait never mind, Face Hunter is easy mode, just hit face, blah, blah, blah braindead deck etc.

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thanks for the advice. i dunno, maybe the deck just isnt for me. i get pounded playing this deck for some reason. frustrating as hell since everyone complains about how easy and brainless it is (and i have gotten my ass handed to me by other face hunters as well, so i know that pain.)

 

i seriously struggled for 2 days to play this deck and got sent back to rank 20 consistently. last month i was able to get to 14 with a very basic Paladin deck without this much heartache.

 

knife jugglers last all of one/two turns every single game. i can never protect them for long enough to make them worth it. i can do consistent damage and have  board control until like turn 6 and then its all buffed/huge/taunt creatures that i cant grind through to do damage anymore and i get overrun. traps come out in hand every single game, usually before Mad Scientists show up. its quite annoying.

 

ive been doing better with the mid-range  hunter deck on this site, but still not great. id be playing something else if i could afford it, but this was about all i could afford at the time. back to basic junk Paladin i guess...

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Thx Icy for the community support.

For people that are striglong or just kind hit a wall I have some frank advice for ya...not all decks are for all people. This means some make more sense and fit your style of play more than others. It's less a "broken deck" thing and more how we all think differently.

Sure we can force ourselves to learn a particular deck but if it doesn't "speak" so us then it may be a good idea to move on.

However, if you are enjoying this hyper aggressive deck then here's my second piece of advice: don't hesitate and attack, attack, attack. I've dueled many QSFH and many react too slowly. You must resit the urge to trade and gain board control. I've won several times when I had ZERO minions on the facing 15+ from opponents. It's because this deck is damn fast and lethal.

Lastly I use 1 Tracking and only 1 Abusive Sergeant. After this I'm going to try dropping 1 Creeper and add Leeroy.

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It is amazing how useful this particular deck is.  I started at 10 and rode it down to 20!  That's good right?  The goal is to get bigger numbers, right?  I won against nothing.  Not. A. Damned. Thing.  I lost against every kind of deck, every hero type.  The best loss was against someone that was doing ranked play, for the first time, with a Shaman with only common cards.

Appreciate the recommendation, where/when did you play test the deck?

And spare me the, "you must suck," B.S.  I accept luck and random chance are part of the equation, but even if I was the worst player in the world (which I can't be starting at 10), random chance dictates I should have won something...

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Appreciate the recommendation, where/when did you play test the deck?


Uh, before I posted it? At whatever Rank I was at the time, probably Legend.

This deck has been one of the most consistent top decks in the meta for months, both at high legend ranks and in tournaments. You're playing it badly.

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Any reason not to play Dire Wolf Alpha ? Instead of wolfrider or a 1drop? So far, I like the effect it has on the deck since board is often full you can trade and maximize its value

Not sure why my post isn't going through...

What about Dire Wolf Alpha in place of wolfrider or a 1drop?

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      The time you have to mulligan is the all the time you have to determine if your current matchup is "ask and answer" or is dictated by line up theory. Before sending away a single card you should have a decent idea of whether or not line up theory is the axis by which you’ll be attacking this game, as this will completely dictate your mulligan decisions.
      It should be fairly straightforward to understand how line up theory impacts your mulligans. If you’re in the position of the player who has more answers than your opponent has threats then you can’t afford to ship a single answer from your opening hand. You have inevitability on your side if you can assemble all of your answers before they can assemble all of their threats, so you shouldn’t be too concerned if your hand appears to be slow.
      If you’re in the position of the player who has fewer threats than your opponent has answers you likely can’t afford to ship a single threat. The way you win is by playing one more threat than they have an answer for, so you’re also in the market for any cards which might force your opponent to spend one of their precious answers on the wrong target.
      The Matchup
      Some cards have the ability to completely take over a game on their own in certain matchups. If you know exactly which deck you’re up against then keeping these cards in your opening hand is always the correct decision, regardless of whether they cost 10 mana or 1. If nine of the last ten Druids you faced were playing Jade, then you stand to gain much more by holding on to Skulking Geist in your opening hand than you do by mulliganing it away. Let’s explore why.
      In this example nine of the last ten Druids we faced were Jades, which extrapolates to a 90% chance that the current Druid you are currently facing is also a Jade. If you assume that keeping the Skulking Geist drops your win percentage from 50% to 0% against all other Druids (which it doesn’t), you’re still only giving up 5% win percentage over the course of 10 games (50% or .5 divided by 10). This means that keeping the Skulking Geist would still be the smarter decision if getting to play the card increased your overall match win percentage against Jade Druid by more than 5.6% (50% or .5 divided by 9), which I’m almost certain that it does. Though it might seem greedy to keep an expensive or narrow card in your opening hand without being certain what you’re up against, the numbers show that it’s often correct to do so.
      Try to resist the urge to mulligan away an expensive card in your hand before considering the odds that it could tilt the matchup in your favor. Consider the prevalence of each deck in your opponent’s class, as well as the impact an individual card has on the overall win percentage in each matchup. It’s far too complex to calculate exact numbers, but with time and practice you can start to get a sense for when and why you should keep certain narrow or expensive cards in your opening hand.
      Conversely, there are cards which are typically strong in opening hands but must be mulliganed away based on your opponent’s class or the expected matchup. These cards might line up poorly against the enemy’s Hero Power or common class cards. For example, minions with one Health are typically miserable against Mage, and early Deathrattle cards like Kindly Grandmother with 2 power or less can get blown out by Potion of Madness. The ability to recognize when it is correct to mulligan away cards that are typically strong is just as important as the ability to recognize when it is correct keep cards that are typically weak.
      50% Theory
      It is often correct to hold onto a card which might not be ideal but is just above the cut. In what I call “50% Theory”, I always try to stop and ask myself if there is a greater than 50% chance that the card I’m thinking about mulliganing away will turn into a worse one. I often find that my first instinct is to mulligan away a less than perfect card to try and find something better, but that when I apply 50% theory I realize that my odds of improving my hand actually decrease by shipping the card away.
      Curving Out
      Another reason to keep potentially expensive cards is because your hand can naturally curve into them. For example, let’s say you’re playing a deck which typically always mulligans away 4 drops in the dark. If the other two cards in your hand are a 2 drop and a 3 drop, then it could potentially be worth keeping the 4 drop so long as it is a natural follow-up to the other two cards.
      Checking the curve of our hand can also help us catch when we might have too much of a good thing. Many cards which are typically excellent in opening hands might not pair well with the other cards in our hand, or even with a second copy of itself. N'Zoth's First Mate is typically the best card for Pirate Warrior on turn one, but the second copy should almost always be shipped away. The same can often (though not always) be said for Innervate, depending on what the final card or cards in your opener are. If you’re on Aggro Druid and your opening hand is double Innervate + Bittertide Hydra, then you have a potentially game winning play on turn one. If your hand is double Innervate + Living Mana, then you’ll want to ship both the Living Mana and one of the Innervates to try and find yourself a better curve.
      The Checklist
      To recap, here are a list of questions you should ask yourself about each hand while mulliganing:
      Based on my opponent’s class and the local metagame, which decks could my opponent be playing? Is this a line up theory matchup? Are there any narrow answers or threats in my hand? Do I have any cards which are very powerful against one of these decks? Am I increasing my overall win percentage by keeping these cards? Do I have any cards which are very weak against one of these decks? Am I decreasing my overall win percentage by keeping these cards? Does this hand curve out? Does it have a game plan? Do I have any expensive cards which I should mulligan away for something less expensive? If so, is there a greater than 50% chance that getting rid of one of these cards will yield a worse result? It’s important to note that the de facto “most important factor” of mulligans, the mana cost of the cards, is the second to last question when working down this checklist. This isn’t to say that the mana cost of the cards in your opening hand isn’t important, it's just that there are many other things you should be thinking about as well.
      Another thing of note is that I never stop to ask if I have cards in my hand which should be automatically kept. I believe that you can get yourself into trouble by thinking about cards as “automatic keeps”, and should instead start off by viewing each card through the lens of the specific matchups you’re anticipating. Granted, to this day I have still never mulliganed away the first copy of Flametongue Totem, but I’d like to think that’s because I have yet to encounter a matchup where it isn’t good in my opening hand and not because the card is an "automatic keep".
      Conclusion
      Line up theory can help us think about our boards, hands, and decks as distinct sets of limited tools. By lining up our tools against our opponent’s problems we can attempt to organize our game plan into the most effective and thorough plan possible. Some matchups are dictated entirely by line up theory, while in other matchups we can use the lessons we've learned from line up theory to gain small edges in efficiency.
      Mulligans are an often overlooked or misunderstood facet of the game, but they are sometimes the most important decision we make in the entire game. By taking the time to carefully consider all the reasons why we should or shouldn’t keep each card in our opener, we are adding one more edge to our game which will help propel us to the next stage of the ladder.
      For the fourth and final installment of Legend in the Making, I will discuss all of the subtle ways that game behavior can inform the exact content of player’s hands. By analyzing the ordering decisions and tiny mistakes our opponents make we can glean much more information about our their game plan than you might think. Please join me in part four as we make the final push towards our ultimate goal of reaching Legend.
      - Aleco
      Part 1 - Ranks 25 to 15 - Knowing your Role and Embracing Mistakes
      Part 2 - Ranks 15 to 10 - Having a Plan and Playing to Outs
      Part 4 - Ranks 5 to Legend - Tools for the Climb and the Art of the Read
    • By Aleco

      In episode two of "What's the Move?" Aleco discusses an open-ended situation which doesn't have a clear answer.
      In episode two of "What's the Move?" Aleco discusses an open-ended situation which doesn't have a clear answer.
      We kicked off this new series by analyzing a tricky situation which had only one optimal line of play. In episode two we'll take a look at a very different kind of situation, one where there might not be a perfect move at all.
      Please let us know in the comments what you would have done in this situation! One of the primary goals of this series is to foster improvement at Hearthstone by generating discussions. We would also love to hear your feedback on the video itself, as the series is still very new and has plenty room to improve on its format.
      - Aleco
    • By Stan

      In the latest Hearthstone update, Blizzard made adjustments to several cards. The patch is now live now on desktop and it should become available on mobile devices in the coming hours.
      Philosophy and reasons behind these changes can be found here.
      Blizzard (Source)
      Card Changes
      Innervate now reads: Gain 1 Mana Crystal this turn only. (Down from 2)
      Fiery War Axe now costs 3 mana.  (Up from 2)
      Hex now costs 4 mana. (Up from 3)
      Murloc Warleader now reads: Your other Murlocs have +2 Attack. (Down from +2 Attack, +1 Health)
      Spreading Plague now costs 6 mana. (Up from 5) 
    • By Vlad
      This thread is for comments about our Halls of Valor Mythic+ dungeon guide.