Heroes of the Storm Tyrael

[Trensicourt 5]

Interesting, my bruiser build is as it follows:

1-Purge Evil

4-Swift Retribution

7-Reciprocate

10-Judgement

13-Burning Rage

16-Salvation

20-Angel of Justice

I often find myself needing basic attack uptime in team fights, so swift retribution becomes very useful in addition to its great team utility. Similarily, this complements well with Reciprocate. The waveclear makes Tyrael a much stronger hero outside of team fights. However, it's value can be very high in team fights if positioned well. Burning Rage is pretty standard here for solid damage. Salvation is absolutely a must for bruiser Tyrael, since any good team would focus Tyrael to peel him off of backline. This leads to Tyrael constantly rotating back to the team. Why not give Tyrael 1,000+ health shields whenever he does so?  Angel of Justice is a perfect complement to Salvation and Swift Retribution, allowing Tyrael to engage and focus down any targets. In many cases, I only use Eldruin's might once to engage and a second to leave. Using it twice offensively when the fight isn't decided wastes Tyrael's sustain when he could've rotated back to team for salvation shields. From my experience, this build gives Tyrael the most balanced tanking and damage.

 

[Leadblast 28]

I find Tyrael very strong in Volskaya Foundry now. Righteousness and Sanctification are very handy for winning teamfights when holding the terminal access points.

[Leadblast 28]

On 14/6/2017 at 8:52 PM, Guest MachineCult said:

I'm sure there's twenty reasons I'm wrong, but I've had a reliable amount of success so far building Tyrael as a follow-up based bruiser. I know many of these talents were bashed in the guide, but hear me out.

Talent Path: 

1-Purge Evil

4-Vigorous Strike

7-Follow Through

10-Judgement

13-Burning Rage/Angelic Might

16-Holy Ground/Blood for Blood

20-Nexus Blades

 

On what I read in the guide regarding these talents, Vigorous Strike was discounted due to being able to sustain large amounts of damage, Tyrael's mobility combined with Follow Through gives appreciable returns.

Follow Through was criticized due to Tyrael's long cooldowns, however it's important to note for the sake of this talent, El'druin's Might and its teleport both count as individual abilities, if you rotate properly you can sustain Follow Through damage without any down time. I did catch the note that using El'druin's Might aggressively is a gamble, however this combo brings solid dueling, diving and harassment to the table. 

Angelic Might. The jury's still out on this one, because it's not very reliable however in this particular build, situationally it can really pack a punch and give you a nice chunk of self sustain. I do agree outside of this specific build it doesn't hold much merit. 

In conclusion, I suppose this build is perhaps only useful in niche situations during competitive play, or is comp dependent, but I've generally had favorable results with it, usually finishing in the top three in virtually every stat. I've successfully locked horns with Sonya, Malthael and Muradin with this build, so I'll continue to use it but just felt I would share. Maybe it just catches them off guard XD

 

I tried my own Bruiser Tyrael build, it looks very much like yours but it has no Follow Through.

https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/tyrael#26.0!1321144

1 - Purge Evil - more damage on heroes, self explanatory

4 - Vigorous Strike - I also think this talent actually helps to make Tyrael tankier by giving him more self-sustain. You can outlast many assassin opponents (especially those who do NOT use a similar talent or plainly don't have it).

7 - Reciprocate - let's face it, as Tyrael, you're going to cast Righteousness as you're engaging enemies, regardless of what role or build you are following. So, if you have to be a Bruiser Tyrael, why don't you take the chance to deal more damage to enemies while casting it? Follow Through requires actually to use several skill casts to be effective. But, despite Tyrael 's short cooldowns (or perhaps, BECAUSE of them) he suffers a lot from running out of Mana. Once you are oom, Follow Through becomes quite useless. I believe Tyrael should make the most out of each time he has to use Righteousness, and this talent just does it better. Follow Through requires him to be constantly spamming skills to be effective, but that is not realistically possible due to his mana problems.

10 - Judgement is the usual choice, although Sanctification can be better on maps like Volskaya or Sky Temple.

13 - Burning Rage - offers more sustained damage without having to constantly cast anything. Since as a Bruiser you're expected to make actual attacks on enemies you'll often be in range for this ability to be effective.

16 - Blood for Blood - this allows him to bring down those fatty bellies like the Prime Evils or Stitches should you be forced to engage them.

20 - Nexus Blades - the perfect complement for Vigorous Strike AND Burning Rage.

 

By contrast, here's my OTHER build, Tank Tyrael:

https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/tyrael#26.0!4232233

1 - Regeneration Master

4 - Swift Retribution - helps in making him and his allies more mobile

7 - Zealotry - this goes well with Angelic Absorption at 13 since it will make Righteousness last longer

10 - Sanctification - you can swap it for Judgement if you're not in Sky Temple or Volskaya

13 - Angelic Absorption - regenerates HP as you're being attacked, self explanatory

16 - Salvation - makes your own Righteousness shield thicker

20 - Nullification Shield - feel free to discard this one if the other team doesn't have a lot of mages.

[Guest Naenlor]

You should try out the Follow Through talent with him though. Yes you need to use all your talents, but you should be in order to engage, and to chase. BUT the main reason is because of El'druins Might triggers Follow Through twice. Once when you throw the sword, and another when you teleport. So you can get 4 Follow Through attacks in a full rotation. It does a surprising amount of damage as well. AND you combo this with the level 16 talent that makes teleporting with El'druins Might increase your attack speed but a insane amount, and you make yourself able to dive in, and unleash a lot of damage. The main problem is the build up to this, cause before all of this, you can just a subpar Warrior until you get your Ultimate and some talents under your belt.

[Morcalivan 86]

New builds?

[Leadblast 28]

there's an "aggressive Tyrael" build that replaces his old Bruiser build, consistent of Ardent Restoration + Smite talents but I guess we still need more playing to shape it up better.

what I've been trying is a mix of offensive and utility talents along with the Ardent Restoration for sustain:

Ardent Restoration

Bound by Law

Purge Evil

Judgement

Law and Order

Burning Halo (notice how this talent does not work as intended by the talent's description, might be fixed in next patches.)

Angel of Justice/Defense of the Angels

 

there's probably a Tank build too, given how he has certain talents that give him physical armor but need to put it together.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Leadblast

[Jaqen 0]

Need a build update for rework, pretty please!

[Erathis 53]

18 hours ago, Morcalivan said:

New builds?

Holy Ground Build/Generic Good Stuff Build

Justice for All > Stalwart Angel > Swift Retribution > Sanctification > Holy Ground > Horadric Reforging > Seal of El'Druin

I expect this to be his standard build going forward.  Not really focused on his own damage (though lots of attack speed helps make it so he isn't ignored), instead he's an extremely effective controlling/team support warrior with practically 100% up time on Holy Ground and Stalwart Angel.  Characters without strong movement abilities can't escape/catch him/his team and he's very, very hard to kill.

Auto Attack/Smite Focused Build

Salvation > Divine Vigor > Purge Evil > Judgement > Law and Order > Smite the Wicked > Seal of El'Druin

A fun damage dealing Bruiser build focus around Smite.  A strong four man Righteousness with Law & Order + Purge Evil means this Tyr can burst squishies before anything can be done to stop him.  Salvation + Divine Vigor meanwhile help him weather damage coming his way.

[positiv2 955]

2 hours ago, Jaqen said:

Need a build update for rework, pretty please!

The guide was rewritten and has just been polished before it is added to the site. It should be up shortly. 

[Jaqen 0]

38 minutes ago, positiv2 said:

The guide was rewritten and has just been polished before it is added to the site. It should be up shortly. 

Thanks!

[Emergenza 6]

Aloha,

I dunno if u r already aware of it, so just fyi: There are some wrong (=old) tooltips in the talent build. Moving the cursor to the very first talent in the tree i. e.  shows the old 'Salvation'-text as tooltip instead of the new one.

The same thing happens for 'Purge evil' & 'Swift retribution' (T7) and 'Horadic reforging' (T16).

And some of the very new talents don't even show any tooltip.

It seems like your trainee who's responsible for polishing the guide needs to be lashed on harder! =;o)

And justice for all!
 

[Leadblast 28]

I think I can improve that, or come with some more variation.

For a Bruiser build, Divine Vigor + Purge Evil have obvious synergy. Divine Vigor gives you 50% lifesteal for the next 4 seconds (this is basically 3-4 attacks, 5 attacks in the best case scenario)  after Smiting an enemy Hero. Purge Evil increases Tyrael's attack damage by 35% for 4 seconds after Smiting. So these 2 obviously go together. I don't really like the idea of Tyrael being that much based on autoattack damage, but this is what we have now. The advantage of Divine Vigor is that it helps you to build up your sustain at first because Ardent Restoration is quite weak for the first damage instances, and you only notice the healing after building a large amount of stacks. You obviously have to be accurate with your Smites now... that kinda goes without saying.

But I'd say this works reasonably well with Tyrael's play style - he dives into an enemy with Judgement (or charge Righteousness shield, then dive with El'Druin), then hit a few times while taking some damage, and then Smite and attack. You should actually let enemies hurt you for some damage before Smiting, this is to let the lifesteal effect (from Divine Vigor) kick in and not make him waste sustain by trying to heal yourself while at nearly full health. The more damage they throw at you, the sooner you should be Smiting someone though.

If you used to go Burning Rage -> Holy Ground for levels 13 to 16 before the remake, you can still go the inverse route for a similar result (Holy Ground -> Burning Halo). This possibilty still exists, but these are generally more "utility" talents than pure aggression steroids. I myself do generally look at these kinds of talents because like I said, I don't believe that much in an AA-based build, as it's generally mitigated by armor and wasted by blinding abilities.

Going back to a Bruiser build. Law and Order could be useful here as it reduces slightly the cooldown on Righteousness (teh shield) after Smiting an enemy. You'll notice here that by reducing the shield's cooldown his mana consumption starts to rise up. Just so you know.

At level 16, even though you have Smite the Wicked, you'll probably want Burning Halo. It offers you some constant damage (which will also trigger Ardent Restoration if you hurt enemy heroes with it), this works basically the same as old Burning Rage pre-rework. It also helps his waveclear and damage against all things, particularly Structures. If you go with Smite the Wicked, you will start feeling the toll on your mana pool from casting Smite multiple times.

At level 20, you have Seal of El'Druin this actually gives you some attack speed as opposed to attack damage, it can work against Structures or other PvE targets.

So there you get a Bruiser build (however crappy it may be).

https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/tyrael#29.7!3321324

Now I maybe can make a Tank build, and probably even a "Mobile" build for fun. That juking talent at 13 is interesting.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Leadblast

[Leadblast 28]

Going for a Mobility-based build. This should prove interesting.

At level 1 I have no real preference, you can go with anything that suits you best.

At level 4, you'll want Bound by Law. This enhances El'Druin's slow and will give Tyrael a huge movement speed advantage (coupled with the next talent) over a possible target.

At level 7, obviously Swift Retribution. The movement speed burst has been buffed to 20%, so it's better than before. It also improves attack speed now (that makes it perhaps the best talent overall as it gives both escape ability and increased DPS).

Level 10, anything that suits you best (most of the time it's just Judgement really).

level 13, Sword of Justice. This is where the fun begins. As you probably know, you can cast your El'Druin once, then move yourself a good distance towards a safe backline, and you can then teleport back and forth. Once to attack, then again to retreat. You could also do some kind of baffling trick like casting the sword on your actual position (or towards your own backline), then immediately casting Judgement on a victim, then teleport back to the sword once Judgement's stun expires (this kind of trick works more often than you'd think lol). Experiment.

level 16, Horadric Reforging, reasons are self-explanatory. The good thing about this talent is that you can attack ANYTHING to reduce El'Druin's cooldown.

Level 20, Angel of Justice if you went for Judgement.

And there it is, your rofl-Mobile Suit Tyrael build.

https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/tyrael#29.7!2231111

Note that I went with Justice for All at level 1, but you can use anything really because the Mobile Suit Tyrael is based solely on mobility and nothing else.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Leadblast

[Leadblast 28]

Now going for an Utilitary build. This will have a collection of basically the best talents, with the most overall value possible (like waveclear and such). The talents may not have particular synergy with each other but they're the overall best talents at their respective tier.

Level 1, I choose Ardent Restoration. You're bound to dive into enemy heroes at some point in the game.

Level 4, you'll probably want Divine Vigor for sustain in PvE situations. You can use Smite on minions for waveclear purposes and get back some of your health. The same for merc camps or some monsters (Shrine Guardians, Haunted Mine Zombies, etc). You don't have to Smite heroes for this talent to work, though it will also work on them obviously.

Level 7, Swift Retribution. This one provides the most value at this point because it gives both attack speed (for offensive purposes) and movement speed (for escape purposes). Like the previous, you don't have to Smite enemy heroes, in fact you don't have to Smite ANYTHING for this to work.

Level 10, Judgement.

Level 13, Holy Ground.

Level 16, Burning Halo.

Level 20, Angel of Justice or possibly Defense of the Angels for armor/protection purposes.

https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/tyrael#29.7!3331221

[Leadblast 28]

And this is the Tank build.

Level 1, I'm leaning towards Salvation, but you can also pick Justice for All if you feel your teammates need extra protection (useful against AOE mages for instance).

Level 4, Stalwart Angel.

Level 7, Reciprocate is nice, but you may want Swift Retribution just in case you need to move faster. I'm going with Retribution since more mobility helps better in keeping you alive in fights (keep in mind Tyrael is not the toughest of tanks even with the nice armor additions he got).

Level 10, Sanctification.

Level 13, I go Law and Order for more uptime on shields.

Level 16, Horadric Reforging basically because of the same reason I prefered Swift Retribution at 7.

Level 20, Defense of the Angels. This stacks with the armor from Stalwart Angel for an incredible +65 armor.

https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/tyrael#29.7!1132313

 

Now, you probably DO NOT want a full Bruiser build, or a full Tank build, because these builds suffer from Crippling Overspecialization, that is, the ability to do that one task really well at the expense of sucking at all others. In most games you have to settle for some kind of hybrid build. Experience will teach you. These builds are just general guidelines, you will rarely use them as they are. Your actual build comes from a modification of one of these possible depending on the talents you really need (waveclear at Tomb, for instance).

Edited January 18, 2018 by Leadblast

[Lorebot 1]

I feel like the lvl1 Salvation talent ends up being a troll talent at high levels. A 1000 point shield is great, but the healing component is meager (I think it scales up to like ~270 at lvl20) and it only triggers if the shield is broken not on just absorbing damage like the older version of the talent did. You end up trying to time your big shield just right to absorb enough damage to get a heal for what amounts to a single auto attack from most heroes and it's completely wasted if you're already topped off when the shield breaks because it's an instant heal not a hot.

The other lvl1 talents require a lot less planning and are far less likely to be unused or wasted due to circumstances of combat.

[Leadblast 28]

some notes regarding synergy between these new talents:

Ardent Restoration doesn't require you to actually attack an enemy hero, you can damage them with your offensive spells (Q, E, Judgement), the shield explosion from Reciprocate, and Burning Halo. Burning Halo in particular helps in getting to 10 stacks of Ardent in about half the time you would take without that talent because of the burning aura dealing an amount of damage per second.

with Divine Vigor + Swift Retribution, you can get the healing from 6 attacks assuming you Smite at point blank range (within attack range) and the target doesn't move at all. This combination can help in taking merc camps (e.g. Blackheart Bay) or other PvE situations. Divine Vigor's healing also works if you Smite nothing but an enemy Structure.

with Divine Vigor + Purge Evil, you can get a certain number of "critical damage" attacks + the additional healing from these attacks. The maximum amount of attacks is 5 at most, and 7 if you have Seal of El'Druin as well. Though in an actual game you should perhaps consider an average of about 3-4 attacks, if not less.

Law and Order: if Righteousness only affects yourself, your next Smite will not deal extra damage (just in case you thought Tyrael himself counts as an "allied hero"). Obviously, it's far easier to shield multiple allies then deal an increased Smite's damage than it is to hit multiple enemy heroes with 1 Smite. Shielding Nova or Samuro clones counts towards the additional Smite damage. There is no timer limit on the damage for the next Smite, you can cast it as late as you want and still deal that extra damage.

Horadric Reforging should require you to attack 8 times in order to refresh El'Druin's cooldown completely, however because of your actual attack speed it's actually more like 5-6 attacks assuming you cast El'Druin on an enemy and teleport immediately to the sword. With Seal of El'Druin, teleporting to the sword counts as an extra ability so you can get 2 attack speed boosts, one for casting El'Druin and another for teleporting to it. If you have Sword of Justice as well, the 2nd teleport also counts as another ability cast.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Leadblast

[Valhalen 1,486]

15 hours ago, Emergenza said:

Aloha,

I dunno if u r already aware of it, so just fyi: There are some wrong (=old) tooltips in the talent build. Moving the cursor to the very first talent in the tree i. e.  shows the old 'Salvation'-text as tooltip instead of the new one.

The same thing happens for 'Purge evil' & 'Swift retribution' (T7) and 'Horadic reforging' (T16).

And some of the very new talents don't even show any tooltip.

It seems like your trainee who's responsible for polishing the guide needs to be lashed on harder! =;o)

And justice for all!
 

Some tooltips are not even showing up.

[Erathis 53]

5 hours ago, Lorebot said:

I feel like the lvl1 Salvation talent ends up being a troll talent at high levels. A 1000 point shield is great, but the healing component is meager (I think it scales up to like ~270 at lvl20) and it only triggers if the shield is broken not on just absorbing damage like the older version of the talent did. You end up trying to time your big shield just right to absorb enough damage to get a heal for what amounts to a single auto attack from most heroes and it's completely wasted if you're already topped off when the shield breaks because it's an instant heal not a hot.

The other lvl1 talents require a lot less planning and are far less likely to be unused or wasted due to circumstances of combat.

It's not a troll talent, it's a specialized talent (all of Tyrs level 1 talents are specialized).  Salvation's value is in burst protection while Ardent Restoration is for elongated fights (and Justice for All is for team support).  Salvation gives you about 500 more total durability (between the extra shields and heal) in a immediate burst (most of which goes away after 4 seconds) while Ardent Restoration will take 10 seconds at full stacks to give the same (both of these numbers are for level 20).  So it's simply a matter of deciding if you're going to be expecting drawn out fights or if you're going to be focused down quickly.  This can depend both on the enemy team (Greymane vs Lunara for example) and on your own build/play style (holy ground/defensive vs Smite dive build).

As for "wasting" the talent, you don't need to worry about that.  If they fail to break your shield that means you didn't die when they dived you or you dived them, either way you're good, the talent did it's job (ie stop you from dying too quickly).  I mean if you want to get nit-picky Justice for All is "wasted" if they focus you or you're out of range of your team and Ardent Restoration is wasted if they stop you from generating stacks (either via CC or Poke), die too quickly for the heal over time to gain much value, or if you're not fighting heroes (say taking a camp).  Still those situations aren't what those talents are for.  Salvation is the same, it's an anti-burst talent, that's what it's for, pick it only if you expect that situation.

Edited January 18, 2018 by TSRD

[Lorebot 1]

2 hours ago, TSRD said:

It's not a troll talent, it's a specialized talent (all of Tyrs level 1 talents are specialized).  Salvation's value is in burst protection while Ardent Restoration is for elongated fights (and Justice for All is for team support).  Salvation gives you about 500 more total durability (between the extra shields and heal) in a immediate burst (most of which goes away after 4 seconds) while Ardent Restoration will take 10 seconds at full stacks to give the same (both of these numbers are for level 20).  So it's simply a matter of deciding if you're going to be expecting drawn out fights or if you're going to be focused down quickly.  This can depend both on the enemy team (Greymane vs Lunara for example) and on your own build/play style (holy ground/defensive vs Smite dive build).

As for "wasting" the talent, you don't need to worry about that.  If they fail to break your shield that means you didn't die when they dived you or you dived them, either way you're good, the talent did it's job (ie stop you from dying too quickly).  I mean if you want to get nit-picky Justice for All is "wasted" if they focus you or you're out of range of your team and Ardent Restoration is wasted if they stop you from generating stacks (either via CC or Poke), die too quickly for the heal over time to gain much value, or if you're not fighting heroes (say taking a camp).  Still those situations aren't what those talents are for.  Salvation is the same, it's an anti-burst talent, that's what it's for, pick it only if you expect that situation.

Your comparison of Salvation to Ardent Restoration doesn't take into account that one has a 10 sec cooldown (which can be lowered by Law and Order) and the other does not. Still, everyone looks at these things in different ways. From my perspective Salvation seems under powered compared to the value of the other 2 lvl1 talents. It's 'burst protection' value just doesn't seem worth giving up the value of powerful shields for your team or excellent self sustain for dueling or team fighting.

[Erathis 53]

3 hours ago, Lorebot said:

Your comparison of Salvation to Ardent Restoration doesn't take into account that one has a 10 sec cooldown (which can be lowered by Law and Order) and the other does not. Still, everyone looks at these things in different ways. From my perspective Salvation seems under powered compared to the value of the other 2 lvl1 talents. It's 'burst protection' value just doesn't seem worth giving up the value of powerful shields for your team or excellent self sustain for dueling or team fighting.

Indeed, it does depend on how you look at things.  Like I see the "...excellent self sustain for dueling or team fighting." part here and think "Yeah but only if you don't get killed/cc'd before the talent can even do anything...  And the fight lasts long enough for the talent to bring value."  If your build is meant to have long drawn out fights or if the enemy team lacks burst than by all means, Ardent Restoration can indeed be a great value.  Frankly I think all three of his level 1 talents have a use, I'll even agree that Salvation is the least generally applicable talent.  I simply don't agree that it's a troll/trap talent, it's only a poor pick if you're not taking it for the job it's meant for.

Regarding not mentioning the cooldown for Salvation, I had assumed people understood that the 10 second cooldown existed without having to say it? Justice for All has the same cooldown period, Ardent Restoration don't actually do anything until you trigger it (and doesn't do anything significant unless you trigger it a lot), ect...  These are standard parts of the skill's mechanics, much like I didn't mention that Salvation is on an ability that costs mana, these things are simply understood to be the case.

Edited January 18, 2018 by TSRD

[Valhalen 1,486]

This is the Bruiser build I like to use. A bit different than Kendric's, as I actually like to take Divine Vigor at level 4, as it adds an extra layer of self-sustain that stacks with Ardent Restoration, specially when combined with Swift Retribution and Seal of El'Druin. I have been getting some pretty neat results with Divine Vigor.

[BigGaz 0]

What happens if The Butcher's Ruthless Onslaught and Tyrael's Judgment hit each other? Do they both stun and damage each other?

[Erathis 53]

3 hours ago, BigGaz said:

What happens if The Butcher's Ruthless Onslaught and Tyrael's Judgment hit each other? Do they both stun and damage each other?

I don't know how it works every time but I know for example with Blaze it seems to depend on who used theirs first, how the hit lands, and other factors like that.  Of course Blaze's ability is a "skill shot" type while both Butcher and Tyr have point and click abilities...  Also I know Butcher's charge grants him unstoppable, I don't think Tyr's Judgement does the same though (I think I've had it stopped with a stun before) so in this case I expect Butcher's charge to win.

[Leadblast 28]

2 minutes ago, TSRD said:

I don't know how it works every time but I know for example with Blaze it seems to depend on who used theirs first, how the hit lands, and other factors like that.  Of course Blaze's ability is a "skill shot" type while both Butcher and Tyr have point and click abilities...  Also I know Butcher's charge grants him unstoppable, I don't think Tyr's Judgement does the same though (I think I've had it stopped with a stun before) so in this case I expect Butcher's charge to win.

 

Tyrael's Judgement is unstoppable once he finishes channeling. It has a small channeling time (0.75 seconds, though it's a small window it's still possible to interrupt him there).

 

so much for your Tyrael knowledge huh