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Damien

[Archived] S20 Hearthstone Legendary Ramp Druid BrM

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Sottle,

 

Love your deck and think it's a true testament to deck building.  Will be trying it as soon as I save enough dust for Cenarius.  I've been trying Double Combo/Mid-Range Druid on ladder but have been struggling with it against aggro.  I realized that Combo Druid is a great tournament deck when the matchups are regimented and controlled as opposed to laddering.   However, it's just not going to consistently handle aggro with just 1 zombie chow and the standard shades/piloted.   Zoo particularly has that extra burst to push through token defenses.

 

What I really like about your deck is the redundancy built into it.   2 Chows, 2 Daughters, 2 Senjins + removal make it very likely you will draw the early cards and keep from dropping too much health.  Druid of Claw, Sludge Belcher, and Ancient of War are progressively larger taunts that get harder and harder to remove.   Finally Cenarius and KT put the dagger in.   Also your deck has this singular focus that you don't depart from as there are no combo components or overabundance of tech cards.

 

Questions for you:

 

1. I've been seeing a lot of "Hybrid" Combo/Ramp decks that basically throw in Ancient of War into the Combo Deck (no KT or Cenarius) and keep the Shade/Shredder.   What do you think of these decks?   I feel like they don't really handle the early game any better and also you lose card draw which is necessary for combos since Drakes are usually substituted.  

 

2. What do you think of Harrison Jones given the Warrior-heavy meta?   Besides being clunky against non-weapon classes, my guess is that you don't play it because it would really bog down your 5 drop   Although Death's Bite (the main weapon to care about) kills Sludge/Senjin with it's combined hit and deathrattle, I assume it's not as a big of deal since you are ramping higher with bigger taunts.   What would you sub-out for Harrison if you were to play it?

 

 

Thanks again!

 

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Yep, you can certainly sub in Harrison if you're facing a lot of Warrior, just cut a Belcher.

I haven't too much chance to mess with the Ancient of War double Combo decks, I did play one for a while pre-GvG, but haven't had any experience with it recently, i'll give it a try soon though.

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I have all the cards for this deck except Big Game Hunter and Sylvanas. I have the dust to craft Sylvanas, but then I wouldn't have any left over for Big Game Hunter. Should I invest in Sylvanas?

 

I had been saving my dust to start either a Face Hunter, Zoo, or Patron warrior deck. I started investing heavily in Druid before I learned much about Hearthstone and consequently made a poor decision to pick Druid. I have probably 50-75% of the cards for your Face Hunter deck and roughly 50% of the Zoo cards. Patron Warrior looks to be really strong currently, but I've been dusting all my warrior cards.

 

What do you think?

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@Sottle:

 

I don't think a Hybrid Combo and Ramp will work well.   The difference is probably only 6-8 cards but makes a world of difference in win conditions.   Combo will go for FON, Roar, and Azure Drakes plus Shades and is an anti-control deck.   Ramp will use these slots for Senjins, KT, Ancient of Wars, and Sludges + Druid of the Flame.   The win conditions are actually not that compatible and incorporating them dilutes the deck.  For example, Ancient of Wars in Combo do not help with early game survival, combo setup, and only provide survival at the very latest points of the game.

 

The same hybrid has been tried between Face and Mid range Hunter.  In theory, you should be able make a perfect mix of the advantages of both.   They also share so many common cards.  However, the differences and dilutions in win conditions are much more impactful then the gains that could be made by merging the decks.

 

@Dieter

 

I am also a "No Packs" player meaning that I bought Naxx and BRM, but I don't buy packs.  I started playing in February so my collection is fairly limited as well.   Don't beat yourself up for going Druid.  Your initial direction is usually based on your initial set of rares and legendedaries that you get.   My first big rares were Goblin Blastmage so I immediately went for Mech Mage because it was the cheapest good starter deck on the ladder.  I played that deck so much that I got bored to death.    The next deck I dusted was Midrange and Face Hunter (shared a lot of cards) because they were very good decks relative to dust.   After that I have settled into Zoo and Druid.  

 

Of these decks, I actually like Zoo and Druid the best.  Zoo gives card draw which most agro decks don't have.   Face Hunter is just too coin flip for me and I struggle actually (sounds dumb) knowing when to trade off for minions.  Zoo is nice since you can always draw into a card like Power Overwhelming or Doomguard and give you that extra burst to win.    I don't think Hunter is a good investment at this time.   MR Hunter is good for deathrattle synergies and is a good counter for some other mid-range decks.  But each of it's win conditions seem diluted nowadays.  Savannah HIghbane, Piloted Shredders, Knife Jugglers, Loatheb, and Sludges were like best in class cards but they aren't really anymore.  Face Hunter has already started showing decline I believe in popularity as lots of decks have teched against it.

 

Ramp Druid I think is a great ladder deck because it is mentally a pretty easy deck to play.  It is linear in it's aims and win conditions which is good.   It is actually easier to play then my Demon Zoo (Malganis, Voidcallers, Doomguard, Sea Giant).   While Zoo is the aggressor, it often is on the back foot to decks like Face Hunter or even Warrior and Paladin who have great board clears.   The reason I find is that Implosion and the Imps are either game winning or simply a liability.   If your opponent has Swipe or Whilwind, your Implosion did not generate much value and may have lost both value and tempo.   

 

For your deck, I would invest in BGH first and then Sylvanas.  Both cards are really good and neutral so don't feel bad at all dusting them.   BGH is pretty crucial for a Druid who does not have a real good way of dealing 4+ damage besides Swipe.   BGH is just a very crucial card for Druid to regain tempo and deal with high cost minions.  Sylvanas is never crucial for the deck and its effects are more subtle.  You can easily substitute Loatheb, Dr Boom, or Ragnaros.  For example, I do not have dust yet for Cenarius.  I have been using Dr Boom instead in the mean time.

 

 

 

 

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@Sottle:

 

I don't think a Hybrid Combo and Ramp will work well.   The difference is probably only 6-8 cards but makes a world of difference in win conditions.   Combo will go for FON, Roar, and Azure Drakes plus Shades and is an anti-control deck.   Ramp will use these slots for Senjins, KT, Ancient of Wars, and Sludges + Druid of the Flame.   The win conditions are actually not that compatible and incorporating them dilutes the deck.  For example, Ancient of Wars in Combo do not help with early game survival, combo setup, and only provide survival at the very latest points of the game.

 

The same hybrid has been tried between Face and Mid range Hunter.  In theory, you should be able make a perfect mix of the advantages of both.   They also share so many common cards.  However, the differences and dilutions in win conditions are much more impactful then the gains that could be made by merging the decks.

The deck works just fine, it's just a matter of whether it's fitting right now. It really isn't a serious dilution at all, it's just a matter of cutting two top end cards in Fast Druid for 2 AoW's. It was pretty strong for a long time a while ago when there was a heavy Control Warrior meta around.

As for the Hybrid Face Hunter deck, that deck has been doing really well recently, several people are in top 50 Legend with it right now. So yeah, I think you might need to reassess your thinking on these hybrid decks.

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I have all the cards for this deck except Big Game Hunter and Sylvanas. I have the dust to craft Sylvanas, but then I wouldn't have any left over for Big Game Hunter. Should I invest in Sylvanas?

 

I had been saving my dust to start either a Face Hunter, Zoo, or Patron warrior deck. I started investing heavily in Druid before I learned much about Hearthstone and consequently made a poor decision to pick Druid. I have probably 50-75% of the cards for your Face Hunter deck and roughly 50% of the Zoo cards. Patron Warrior looks to be really strong currently, but I've been dusting all my warrior cards.

 

What do you think?

It sounds like you're just being generally indecisive, honestly people will tell you differing things on which class is the "best" to go for as a free to play player, but the best options is just to pick one and stick to it.

I agree with the point above that I would get BGH before Sylvannas though.

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@Sottle:

I guess it comes down to what do you define as a hybrid.  Adding Ancient of Wars to all the regular Combo druid deck is not really hybrid to me.   It's not really hybrid Ramp/Combo.  Similarly, the "hybrid" Hunter decks usually are mid-range with Gazookas and 1 drops other than Webspinner.   These are slight variations that usually only change the pace of the deck by pulling forward win condition one or two turns, not the inherent goals or play style of the deck.  I'd consider Demon Zoo vs. normal Zoo to be a significant hybrid or variation given that the decks play out significantly different.  

 

I also think the difference in viewpoints is based on players who have limited cards vs. ones that have most.  Speaking for myself, I like Ramp Druid a lot more than Combo because it seems to handle a wider variety of situations as it has cards to handle early agro, mid-game, and late game.   It is not tailored specifically for one of those phases.   Combo druid is mostly a mid/late game deck that simply tries to stall for combo.   When you have a limited card set, you can go with Face Hunter or other flood decks that are really cheap to dust and fast to play.  However, after branching out from there, decks that have some answers at all phases are a good way to experience all parts of the game and establish consistency.  

 

I am going to be trying the following substitutions see if it matches the meta a bit better.   I want to drop both Druid of the Flame for Shades while keeping in Senjins.   I have had a hard time gauging the value of Druid of the Flame.  I know they are significantly weak against late game decks and I rarely enjoy drawing them after the initial turns.   I kind of want to see if the swap will dramatically impact the ability to handle early agro.

 

The more drastic change would be to drop -2 Druid of Flame, -1 Kel Thuzad for 2 Savage Roars + 1 Force of Nature.   This dramatically changes the win condition from "KT Lock" to a mix of minion damage and combo.   However, I am worried that it doesn't have any card draw like Azure Drakes and no early damage sources like Shades/Piloted shredder (in favor of defensive Senjin and Sludges),  However, there will be a lot more burst and reach once the game is stabilized with potential to not get into a long attrition war.  I think it will be interesting whether a 2/3 card win condition is better than 1 card one (KT).  Only testing will tell.

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Just some friendly advice, but I think you're a little prone to sweeping generalisations. I don't know whether you're overstating your opinions with the language you're using or whether it's a genuine representation, but ideas like Fast Druid "just stalling for Combo" or Ramp Druid only having KT as a win condition are just way too simplistic, and will probably limit your progress in the game if you continue to follow them.

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Strategy suggested Spider Tanks whereas the decklist is updated to not having any of it.

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I think the druid of the flame is a better choice since the 2/5 body can get a better value at trading with small minions in the aggro matchup and in some cases the 5/2 body is the right play vs control matchups to trade with bigger minions. The shades of maxxramas is even better vs control decks if you keep them stealthed and let them grow big enough. Spider tanks are good tho dont get me wrong and if its working good for you u can keep them :)

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Because the deck is built to dodge Big Game Hunter, this is addressed specifically in the guide.

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@Sottle

Hi,

Do you feel like Big Game is as much of a necessity today 9/28/15? I rarely see people play big (7+) minions anymore.

Thanks!

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