Damien

Heroes of the Storm Muradin

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This thread is for comments about our Muradin build guide for Heroes of the Storm.

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Really good warrior to begin with, meaning you dont want to invest money or you dont have a lot of gold, but lately the thunderclap build has been way popular than the hamer time one

 

maybe with a Johanna at his side could be even more hilarious with the thunderclap build, damn thats a punishig front line against an auto attack team

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Couldn't agree more. With Muradin you get a lot of power for your money. 

 

The Thunderclap build is very rewarding and easier to execute, however, I wouldn't count the Storm Bolt Build out just yet. I hope you enjoyed the guide, let us know how well the talent builds went for you! 

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Couldn't agree more. With Muradin you get a lot of power for your money.

The Thunderclap build is very rewarding and easier to execute, however, I wouldn't count the Storm Bolt Build out just yet. I hope you enjoyed the guide, let us know how well the talent builds went for you!

Its fun, i mean cmon its MURADIN. Beign a dwarf with the master armor from icc its like an extra, tbh him costing 2k its like wayy too good

And yeah the hammer time build its not out but the players go with the hive mind and pick up the most succesful

Really rewarding hero i dont question that and you can go really i dont care of damage because of your trait

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The common talent paths don't make sense to me...

Storm Bolt Build - Specifically mentions structural damage but punts sledgehammer for reverb.

Thunderclap Build - Specifically mentions attack speed but punts reverb for thunder burn.

Healing Static Build - Specifically mentions single target damage but punts thunder strike. Obviously the build is called healing static build so it must punt thunder strike and does take give em the axe so this one makes the most sense.

Overall I would say these builds seem to be poorly described. The first two literally punt THE skills that the descriptions imply.

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15 hours ago, Guest Common Talent Paths said:

Overall I would say these builds seem to be poorly described. The first two literally punt THE skills that the descriptions imply.

I'll see if I can get those descriptions changed to fit the builds better.

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Hi! With new update on Muradin this month. The Skullcracker talent at lvl 7 not only give Muradin third attack a stun now. It also give 25% attack speed too, and I have try take that talent in thunderclap build. And it work well so far. But that is a nice buff in CC with passive stun and attack speed. I have face one on one against Zeratul and Samuro I think it worth mentions. 

I shall try it out more. 

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7 hours ago, Guest Phenom said:

Hi! With new update on Muradin this month. The Skullcracker talent at lvl 7 not only give Muradin third attack a stun now. It also give 25% attack speed too, and I have try take that talent in thunderclap build. And it work well so far. But that is a nice buff in CC with passive stun and attack speed. I have face one on one against Zeratul and Samuro I think it worth mentions. 

I shall try it out more. 

I've made a note to be looked at, thanks :)

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Hey everyone! 

I'm happy to tell you that we just converted the Muradin Guide into the new format. 

While doing so, I also applied several updates to it. Let me know what you think of it! 

Thanks for reading and clicking!

- Kendric

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Good Afternoon! 

I gotta say, this guide was great! I haven't played Muradin since the beta ended (always went for Johanna, ETC, Sonya, and now Taunt Varian), and the neutral guide was pretty killer. My hero league squad really wanted Muradin, and I had to give the people what they wanted! 

The Lvl 20 skill: Rewind was absolutely too much fun/very necessary. I missed bolts like crazy (noob), so Rewind really helped out with my non-skill skill shots as well as redeeming myself for every miss. And we ended up winning also. Woot!

Thanks again!

-Aramda

Edited by Armada

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yeah he's pretty solid right now. my recommendation for landing those Qs is to just only ever fire them at melee range unless i have absolutely no other choice...

 

though honestly if you can trick them into focusing you at the right moment you don't even need to do anything else to contribute to a teamfight sometimes...

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Nice to see that there was such a positive response to the guide update and the new format :) If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask guys!

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Great Guide! I made a build in one of my games it was great. Basically Tank build but swapped lv1 for bolt talent and lv 4 for mana back and cd red on clap and lv 16 give them the ax. If I jumped into the fray with minions around i could chain spam clap for only 5 mana each time. That mixed with reduced mana from bolt it really solved the mana issues i was having with the build. I've tried heavy impact and stone form for the lv16 spot all work great. 

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7 hours ago, Guest Boscogn said:

Great Guide! I made a build in one of my games it was great. Basically Tank build but swapped lv1 for bolt talent and lv 4 for mana back and cd red on clap and lv 16 give them the ax. If I jumped into the fray with minions around i could chain spam clap for only 5 mana each time. That mixed with reduced mana from bolt it really solved the mana issues i was having with the build. I've tried heavy impact and stone form for the lv16 spot all work great. 

Yeah, hybrid builds work well for some heroes, and luckily Muradin is one of them. In some matches, however, you will need to focus on one build without going too hybrid. Which of the builds do you play the most?

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I usually go this https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/muradin#25.0!3341233

Crowd Control improves both his waveclearing and mana issues, it also synergises with Healing static.

I like to get more damage but the rewind talent has negative synergy with Crowd Control so I pick the other one.

Regarding Dwarf Toss, there are some niche interactions that might appear because it doesnt make you unstoppable like Anub'arak's E so you can get stunned, rooted, displaced mid-flight or before you even jump as it has a slight wind-up. I know because I play very aggressively.

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Compliment , very nice site , all do you need know about heroes of the storm but , i thinks that the muradin page is incomplete , he is one of the most important basic hero and i have see play many times .

I think that in this page miss a full thank build , he is a warrior he need a thank build.

it is my opinion.

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23 hours ago, Guest Vittorio said:

Compliment , very nice site , all do you need know about heroes of the storm but , i thinks that the muradin page is incomplete , he is one of the most important basic hero and i have see play many times .

I think that in this page miss a full thank build , he is a warrior he need a thank build.

it is my opinion.

[If you don't want to read the wall of text, simply skip to the last paragraph]
Majority of Muradin's talents are ones that increase offensive power. Although it is possible I missed a few, the only tank talents offering defensibility directly that come to my mind are BlockBlock on level 1, AvatarAvatar as the heroic ability, Healing StaticHealing Static on level 13, StoneformStoneform on 16 and Unstoppable ForceUnstoppable Force/Hardened ShieldHardened Shield as the level 20 talent. Dwarf LaunchDwarf Launch (and RewindRewind) provides indirect survivability boost through lowered cooldown of Dwarf TossDwarf Toss, which in turn gives you extra armour applied by the ability. To some extent, Heavy ImpactHeavy Impact and SkullcrackerSkullcracker are an improvement to your tankiness since stunned enemies cannot attack, essentially tanking the damage that would have been dealt during the stun time. Imposing PresenceImposing Presence has a similar effect, inhibiting potential damage output, but just like BlockBlock, it requires specific heroes, especially those relying on high attack speed, such as Valla. 

Let's go tier by tier.

Third WindThird Wind improves your out-of-combat health restoration, which is not as important as your damage resistance during fights. For this reason, BlockBlock is considered superior for tank talent in this tier. BlockBlock's value depends too much on the composition of the opposing team to be set as Recommended or be a primary talent. You can still pick it if the opposing team has enough heroes with slow, heavy-hitting basic attacks or attacks that can be boosted, such as Sgt. Hammer or Arthas. This goes for both builds that are present in the guide. As said above, Imposing PresenceImposing Presence suffers from the same issue, but is additionally in the "power tier" of talents, competing with Dwarf LaunchDwarf Launch, which provides superior offensive value while also being useful defensively as outlined above, and with StoneformStoneform, which is the go-to talent for survivability. So, let's not take Imposing PresenceImposing Presence into account when talking about pure tank build. Back to the topic of the first tier - BlockBlock can be used in both builds if need be, which means that both builds are full tank so far.

For level 3 talents, the only talent providing potential survivability is SledgehammerSledgehammer by removing structure's ammo, which has a damage-blocking effect (as long as the ammo is removed). However, since tanks should not really care about buildings as much as about heroes, this talent should not be considered full tank, but rather an option to improve siege capability of Muradin.

When it comes to level 7 talents, you have two options for inhibiting damage - Heavy ImpactHeavy Impact and SkullcrackerSkullcracker. Both talents stun the target, nullifying any damage that would be dealt otherwise. Nonetheless, the damage reduction is not as significant, so the effect of Give 'em the Axe!Give 'em the Axe! is similar in reducing the damage that would be dealt by disabling the option to retaliate, in this case by killing your opponent faster. So, all talents on this tier give you the defensive power you are seeking in a pure tank build.

Simply put, your heroic ability should almost always be AvatarAvatar. This is reflected in the builds present, as both recommend it as the best heroic ability for that build. So far, both builds can be considered "full tank" builds.

As for level 13 talents, both builds goes for the defensive option - Healing StaticHealing Static.

As said previously, Imposing PresenceImposing Presence offers the weakest defensive option out of the three talents for level 16 unless faced with a team full of attack-speed reliant heroes, which doesn't really happen often enough to be even marked as "Situational". Dwarf LaunchDwarf Launch improves your survivability through lower cooldown on an armour-granting talent. In connection with Heavy ImpactHeavy Impact, it provides significant amount of interrupt. So, your talents for level 7 and 16 in a pure tank build should be either whatever+StoneformStoneform or Heavy ImpactHeavy Impact+Dwarf LaunchDwarf Launch. So, both builds are pure tank ones, as far as I can tell.

Now, for level 20, there are two defensive option. Unstoppable ForceUnstoppable Force provides an upgrade to your heroic ability AvatarAvatar, specifically improving your survivability through additional armour from Dwarf TossDwarf Toss and if taken, the talent combo from the previous paragraph. Hardened ShieldHardened Shield provides you with significant amount of armour, though for a short duration, delegating this talent as the anti-burst tech, as opposed to Unstoppable ForceUnstoppable Force's anti-sustain power. Both talents are great for tanking. RewindRewind does provide you with some armour in the form of resetting Dwarf TossDwarf Toss, but even when talented with the aforementioned combo, it does not provide as much survivability as the former two talents. 

So, when you compare these notes to the builds available in our guide, you can see that the Neutral build is the full tank build, with Dwarf Toss build following rather closely, especially until level 20. 

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Has anyone tried the Damage / Bruiser build for Muradin? I feel like it has some potential, but I haven't had the chance to try it myself. Basically, it aims to maximise the uptime of Give'em The Axe and Bronzebeard Rage. 

Level 1: Perfect Storm - The only talent that boost your damage

Level 4: Thunder Burn - The second clap can slow enemies longer

Level 7: Give'em The Axe - key talent of this build

Level 10: Both are viable, but Avatar should be the default choice unless the enemy has very low kill potential

Level 13: Bronzebeard Rage: key talent of this build, also provide much needed waveclear

Level 16: Imposing Presence: it basically serves as a Rewind for Thunder Clap; but Stoneform can also be taken if you need more survivability

Level 20: Both Unstoppable Force and Rewind are good

This is only a theory-crafting build because I haven't tried it out myself. I think this build have some potential if your team had another tank.

 

Update: I tried the build yesterday with an aggressive comp (Xul, Iron Fist Kharazim, Jaina and Samuro). We won pretty decisively, and I ended up having top hero damage. This build can delete squishy backlines with only a few basic attacks.

Edited by ShadowerDerek

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Also, there are 2 things I should mention.

First, Skullcracker should be the go-to pick for the Neutral build. It improves your PvE damage and peeling. It's more useful than pure damage as a main tank.

Second, Third Wind is a solid choice on maps that require fast rotation (like Tomb of the Spider Queen and Dragon Shire), or extended laning phase (like Braxis Holdout). It vastly improves your sustain and relieves your support's pressure.

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      In chess, you aren’t rewarded for losing less, and the reason for this is that the underlying ELO system is robust and self-correcting; rating resets don’t occur every couple months, let alone twice in a week, and rating gains and losses are small. Of course, the ELO system isn’t beyond reproach, but I think it’s fair to say that players understand that long-term results are what matter, not individual game results. And, it doesn’t run the risk of overvaluing Queen taking Rook because of insufficient or misinterpreted data.

      Queen literally takes Rook during a Tribute fight. Siege damage is important to Zagara, says data.
      As you can tell probably tell by now, I’m very skeptical about how such a system is supposed to evaluate what differentiates a highly skilled player, period, regardless of what hero it is they’re playing. Here’s a concrete example of what I mean by that: Although I don’t consider myself to be a particularly strong mechanical player, I have always managed to maintain a rather high win/loss ratios, for a team game, back in my active days anyway. Why? I’d be lying if I didn’t say that many of these victories weren’t simply due to outdrafting opponents, clear non-confrontational shotcalling, encouraging teammates, defusing infighting, taking every match seriously, knowing when and why to engage, going over mistakes, and generally making powerful macro decisions. On top of being that one weird guy that says “can play anything*, prefer assassin or specialist, let’s try to ban x and pick y.” Doesn’t reading that first thing in any given lobby instill confidence in the rest of your teammates? I bet this translates into wins every once in a while, so why not do it?
      I tend to thrive on waveclear tanks with strong engaging power because they let me decide exactly when a minion wave needs to push or when an enemy hero needs to die despite low mechanical ceilings.

      And now you know how to ban me out.
      *…whereas I couldn’t outplay most of my opponents to save my life. I accept my fate as one of the worst Illidan players in existence, and I’m fine with it.

      I have nothing to add, your honor.
      The great irony here is that none of the aforementioned elements that I feel make me, and probably many other players, reasonably strong are – nor can be – taken into account by any automated system because they’re simply too subjective. Why exactly am I being punished for not mindlessly using my abilities on-cooldown and padding my numbers? We get it; dealing damage is important. But what about useful damage? How can that ever be taken into account by a machine? This might sound like an argument from incredulity but, as I see it, we have plenty of evidence to conclude that the system isn’t quite working as intended.
      Of course, within this system, winning is still what matters most, and by far. Fortunately for me, my skillset does tend to translate into wins. But obfuscating one’s point gains and losses behind questionable variables is going to, at best, confuse players, and at worst, breed harmful behaviour. These two consequences have already been observed.
      TL;DR:
      A solid performance-based matchmaking system can have positive effects on matchmaking by allowing players to find their appropriate MMR faster. However, what defines a good player in a complex, team-oriented game goes well beyond what any data collection system can collect, interpret, and use. In its current state, the performance-based matchmaking system is at best unnecessary and at worst obfuscating, and ultimately risks breeding harmful player behaviour.
      I’ll allow myself to end on a bit of wisdom: If you play to improve, you’ll never lose a game in your life. And the sooner you quit worrying about your rank, the sooner you’ll be able to focus on what really matters.