Rivinhal

Sin Rogue Spec/Glyphs for Leveling?

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Hey guys.

 

I have a question regarding leveling builds...

 

Basically I'm currently leveling a Sin Rogue (lvl 93) and I'm currently using the suggested IV leveling build (http://www.wowdb.com/talent-calculator#Kl0KlyKlzbEDPcWLLBAcuR), but I don't quite understand the reasoning behind some of the talents and glyphs in the leveling build. I've certainly used other builds/varients in my time leveling, but since I'm really in "crunch time" now, I'd really like to make the most of my efforts.

 

I sort of feel like the build could be changed for the better (my build would be quite different lol), and I know the page even says that the build isn't set in stone, but I'm not a pro Rogue player by a longshot, so I get the feeling the person(s) who made the build knows things that I don't, and there is some method to the madness that I'm not comprehending.

 

So my question, in a nutshell, is this:

 

What are the reasons behind the talents and glyphs in the leveling build?

Is there a better leveling build?

Does it even really matter that much?

 

Sorry for the long exposition before the question, but any help here would be appreciated guys.

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I'd advise Shadow Focus, Combat Readiness, Leeching, Burst of Speed, and Internal Bleeding.

 

The only really necessary ones imo are Leeching and BoS - Leeching is great, and BoS lets you stealth through caves and such in search of objectives and ignoring all mobs much more quickly

 

But no, it really doesn't matter that much

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I'd advise Shadow Focus, Combat Readiness, Leeching, Burst of Speed, and Internal Bleeding.

 

The only really necessary ones imo are Leeching and BoS - Leeching is great, and BoS lets you stealth through caves and such in search of objectives and ignoring all mobs much more quickly

 

But no, it really doesn't matter that much

What would you recommend for the lvl 90 talent? I've been wanting to go with Shuriken tbh, since most creatures don't survive past my stealth cooldown lol, so the other two are kinda pointless atm, whereas atleast shuriken allows me to do ranged pulls from a certain distance (if I'm understanding it correctly). But I've been using Anticipation since it's the recommended with that build. What are your thoughts on this?

 

Also, so far, my "ideal" leveling build and your recommendations are all the same except for one thing: BoS. I have shadowstep listed, simply because it lets me port between trash mobs on quests (plus it was recommended...) But I see now that BoS is probably better for leveling since it'd greatly increase my ability to move between mobs. Shadowstep works well, but a 3 sec cooldown is nothing to scoff at. 

 

I guess other than the lvl 90 talent info, I just would like to know what you guys think about "leveling glyphs". I'm guessing Vendetta's glyph is going to always be on lol, but I don't really know what to do with the others. Right now I just have the recommended lvl 100 list of Vendetta, Disappearance, and Cloak of Shadows.

 

I'm guessing that glyphs have even less of an impact on leveling than talents, but I figure they're worth asking about.

 

Thanks for the help guys!

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Anticipation is definitely the way to go for Assassination. Shuriken Toss offers nothing good whatsoever.

 

Glyphs for DPS will be Vendetta, Disappearance, and Energy, but for levelling I take off Disappearance 

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Anticipation is definitely the way to go for Assassination. Shuriken Toss offers nothing good whatsoever.

 

Glyphs for DPS will be Vendetta, Disappearance, and Energy, but for levelling I take off Disappearance 

No I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying (though I could be wrong).

 

Right now, I'm killing nearly everything without ever stacking 5 combo points on it (or if I do, the creature is REALLY close to death lol), so I often don't get any anticipation points...

 

Most stuff dies before my 6 sec stealth cooldown lol, so (at this point atleast) feels like a wasted talent since it has no real effect. I was considering Shuriken Toss simply because it was the only talent of the 3 that would give me any actual ability (the ability to pull from 30 yards)

 

Obviously once I hit max level, I'd probably go for either Anticipation or Marked for Death, because at a higher level where I'm not fighting trash mobs constantly, I might be able to make use of them. But I haven't been able to so far with mobs I can kill with my basic rotation.

 

What do you think about that idea? Or do you still say stick with Anticipation (and that I'm probably doing something wrong lol).

 

Also, when you drop disappearance, what do you replace it with? Also how do you feel about Energy vs Cloak of Shadows?

 

Lol sorry for all the questions, but I've been confused about this stuff for a while...

Edited by Rivinhal

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For levelling you can replace Glyph of Disappearance with Stealth, in order to restealth right after killing something. 

 

But yes, I would stick with Anticipation. Just for when you fight rares and such, but also because Shuriken Toss is literally useless. MfD isn't terrible at all, it's just not good to get used to playing with it because it's really not very good for Assassination 

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I'd say swap Vendetta for Stealth and keep Disappearance. You won't be using Vendetta as much as Vanish, IMO.

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I'd say swap Vendetta for Stealth and keep Disappearance. You won't be using Vendetta as much as Vanish, IMO.

Idk. Honestly I feel like I use vendetta way more than disappearance lol. But that's mainly because I have enhanced vendetta, and I'd rather get a free crit mutilate/envenom than to get a free garrote/ambush. I mean I use both of course, but I tend to use one more than the other.

 

I was running with Vendetta, Cloak of Shadows, and Disappearance (that way I didn't have to choose) and I just kinda dealt with the extended stealth time... But right this second I'm running Vendetta, CoS, and Stealth, and while I love the 2 sec stealth, it doesn't feel like it's that big of a deal to me. It's convenient, but it's not particularly useful or anything really. At the point I'm at right now, it takes me probably 4~ secs to kill most mobs anyhow, so by the time I'm done I wait two seconds, and then I can stealth anyways...

 

But once again, I'm guessing that I'm probably missing the big picture somewhere. I mean I understand that I need stealth to be up if I need to pop vanish, but I feel like if I'm in such a dire situation that I can't wait 2-4 seconds, I'm probably beyond saving anyhow. But I don't seem to get in situations like that.

 

Idk. It's kinda funny though. I understand I'm not making this glyph thing easy, simply because I have my own thoughts about what feels right, but it's also humorous because now there are 3 opinions on the table and they all differ rather dramatically from one another. The only thing the two of you agree on is the one thing I disagree on really. (Stealth) That's humorous.

 

If you guys could, instead of just telling me what to use with very brief explanations, could you explain in detail as to why I should use that? I just want to know the reasoning behind it. Because obviously I'm doing something either wrong, or vastly different, which either way is probably not a good thing. Like you guys both want me to use stealth, why should I be using stealth? What's the subtext there? There's gotta be something that I'm missing.

 

Sorry to be such a hassle and make this all so complicated, but all these recommendations seem to fly in the face of what my common sense tells me to choose lol. I just want to know why my common sense is an idiot. Thanks for the help guys.

Edited by Rivinhal

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Getting ganked in world PvP, not using Disappearance will save your life many times.

 

Cloak + Vanish + /lol + walk calmly away

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In any case, the general idea is that levelling doesn't matter much. 

 

Play it the way you're comfortable / used to playing it, and sort out the whole raiding thing if and when you get there :D

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In any case, the general idea is that levelling doesn't matter much. 

 

Play it the way you're comfortable / used to playing it, and sort out the whole raiding thing if and when you get there biggrin.png

Lol fair enough. I just hate feeling like I'm out of the loop you know? I know there's still quite a lot I need to learn about playing a Rogue, so I figure every bit helps. Thanks for the assistance though...

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Take my word with a grain of salt, I PvE with PvP gear, so the set bonuses apply to me lol (4pc Vanish gives Cold Blood effect - same as Vendetta - and auto 5CP)

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Lol fair enough. I just hate feeling like I'm out of the loop you know? I know there's still quite a lot I need to learn about playing a Rogue, so I figure every bit helps. Thanks for the assistance though...

Yeah for sure :)

 

If you'd like more help or have questions, you can either hang around the forums here, PM me, find me online on US-Boulderfist, message me on Twitch, or add me on BattleTag (message me here so I can give you my info if you decide to take this route haha)

 

Always happy to help :D

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Yeah for sure :)

 

If you'd like more help or have questions, you can either hang around the forums here, PM me, find me online on US-Boulderfist, message me on Twitch, or add me on BattleTag (message me here so I can give you my info if you decide to take this route haha)

 

Always happy to help :D

Oy, hottie - gimme your tag.

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Hunter-Gatherer (4) provides extra passive life regeneration to Rexxar. Animal Husbandry (4) essentially allows Rexxar and Misha to reach infinite health points as long Rexxar remains alive. Spirit Bond (20) provides Bestial Wrath with a life-leeching effect where Misha's Basic Attacks heals Rexxar. Sonya (suggested physical build; suggested ability build)  Very strong self-sustain through Whirlwind. This can be further improved by Life Funnel (7) and Wrath of the Berserker (as more damage equals to more healing). Has access to the War Paint (1) talent, meaning that any additional talents or buffs that increase her Attack Speed and Basic Attack Damage will increase this talent's performance. Battle Rage (7) provides an Active Ability that heals Sonya. Stitches (suggested build) Devour is a very powerful self-sustain ability. Can be improved by Chew Your Food (1). Hungry for More increases Stitches' maximum health, therefore increasing the healing from Devour. Amplified Healing (4) increases all healing Stitches recieves, with includes Devour. Savor the Flavor (4) permanently increases Stitches health regeneration when he uses Devour on enemy Heroes. Restorative Fumes (4) causes Vile Gas to heal Stitches. Cannibalize (20) provides passive healing as long Stitches Basic Attacks an enemy Hero. This effect becomes even stronger with Hungry for More, as more health equals to more healing. Tyrael (suggested build) Ardent Restoration (1) provides Tyrael with passive healing as long he deals any form of damage to enemy Heroes. Divine Vigor (4) allows Tyrael's Basic Attacks to heal him after he hits enemies with Smite. It synergises well with Purge Evil (7), Smite the Wicked (16) and Seal of El'Druin (20), as they all improve Tyrael's Basic Attacks, therefore increasing the healing gained. Varian (suggested Protection build; suggested Arms build; suggested Fury build) Lion's Fang naturally heals Varian whenever he hits any opponent (including minions). Can be further improved by Lionheart (7). Second Wind (7) and Victory Rush (7) both provide passive healing as long Varian Basic Attacks anything, with the latter healing for a huge amount, but having a cooldown. Second Wind is improved by High King's Quest (1) and all of Varian's passive effects of his Heroic Abilities. Glory to the Alliance (20) causes banners to increase all healing effects, which includes all the aforementioned talents and abilities above that provide Varian with self-healing. Yrel Vindication deals damage and heals Yrel in return. Light of Karabor (1) increases Vindication radius, as well bonus healing per enemy Hero hit. Ardent Defender heals Yrel for half of the damage absorbed. Word of Glory (20) causes Ardent Defender to heal all nearby allies for the damage Yrel absorbed. Maraad's Insight (1) causes Yrel's next Basic Attack to heal whenever she uses a Basic Ability. Gift of the Naaru (4) causes Divine Purpose to heal an ally nearby Yrel.  
      SPECIALISTS
      Abathur (suggested build) Abathur is an exception to this list as he cannot self heal with his related talents below, since he cannot use Symbiote on himself. Regenerative Microbes (1) causes the Symbiote's Carapace to heal the host. Soma Transference (13) causes the Symbiote's Spike Burst to heal the host when hitting enemy Heroes. Azmodan (suggested build) Cydaea's Kiss (13) causes All Shall Burn to heal if it channels completely. Can be further improved by Sin's Grasp (16), as it increases its range and reduces the cooldown if fully channeled.. Gazlowe (suggested build) Goblin Repairs (1) provides extra passive life regeneration. Medivh (suggested build) Force of Will heals damage absorbed. This can be further improved by Circle of Protection (13) or Reabsorption (13). Raven's Intellect (1) provides extra passive life regeneration. Murky (suggested build) Rejuvenating Bubble (13) heals Murky whenever he uses Safety Bubble. This can be further improved by Big Tuna Kahuna as more health equals to more healing. Fish Tank (13) heals Murky whenever he deals damage with Basic Attacks and Basic Abilities. Nazeebo (suggested build) Hexed Crawlers (4) causes Corpse Spiders to heal Nazeebo. Blood Ritual (4) heal Nazeebo whenever he gains stacks of Voodoo Ritual. Both talents above scale progressively as Nazeebo gains more stacks of Voodoo Ritual. Sgt. Hammer (suggested build) Has access to the Regenerative Bio-Steel (4) talent, meaning that any additional talents or buffs that increase her Attack Speed and Basic Attack Damage will increase this talent's performance while in Siege Mode. Sylvanas (suggested build) Life Drain (13) causes Shadow Dagger to heal Sylvanas each time it spreads to an enemy. The Lost Vikings (suggested build) Has access to the Pain Don't Hurt (4) talent, meaning that any additional talents or buffs that increase Baleog Attack Speed and Basic Attack Damage will increase this talent's performance. Erik the Swift heals Erik as long he is moving. Play Again! fully heals the Vikings. Xul (suggested physical build; suggested Skeleton build) Harvest Vitality (7) causes Cursed Strikes to heal Xul whener it hits enemy Heroes. This can be further improved through Grim Scythe (4) and Rapid Harvest (13) or Executioner (13). Trag'Oul's Essence (7) causes Skeleton Warriors to heal Xul whenever they deal damage. Andariel's Visage (20) causes Poison Nova to heal Xul for half the damage dealt. Zagara (suggested build) Nydus Network heals Zagara as long she is inside it. Hydralisk Transfusion (13) heals Zagara as long Hunter Killer deals damage to enemy Heroes. This talent does NOT benefit from Corrosive Saliva (16) bonus damage or the bouncing attacks from Mutalisk (16).  
      TOP 10 BEST PUBSTOMPERS WITHOUT SUPPORT AID
      Fenix: as long his Shield doesn't drop completely, he has one of the most powerful lane presences in the game, essentially having two healthbars. And if losing his Shields he can simply retreat and let them replenish again. Just be careful with hard engages, stuns and damage-over-time (as each tick will put Shield Capacitor on cooldown). Malthael: ridiculous sustain that allows him to 1v2 or even 1v3 under the right circumstances. Make sure to hit as many opponents as possible with Basic Attacks to maximize his sustain. Dehaka: incredibly sticky and slippery, with a global presence that allows him to engage and disengage at ease. His trait combined with Adaptation makes him really hard to kill. Blaze: powerful lane presence and one of the best self-sustains in the entire game. Diablo: his recent rework made him absurdly resilient, with a self-sustain that can surpass Blaze's under the right circumstances. Sonya: still one of the strongest solo laners in the game, with reliable self-sustain, great damage overall, and strong engage potential. The Butcher: with a high risk, high reward gameplay style, he can become unkillable, but requires a really strong frontline to keep him well protected, as well at least one backline Hero that can harass enemies at long range. Medivh: a Support labelled as a Specialist. With a very versatile kit, he can provide damage, mobility, vision, crowd-control and most importantly, damage immunity and healing. ANY team without a Support greatly benefits from Medivh. Thrall: very strong on really long matches, as his most powerful quest talents require a lot of farming. At the endgame he deal eye-watering damage while healing for huge chunks of health. Illidan: with his passive healing, he is a no-brainer. He can easily harass the backline and disengage, forcing the enemy team to waste cooldowns and allow the allied team to retaliate.  
      THE TOP 5 BEST SELF-SUSTAIN TEAM COMBINATIONS
      Disclaimer: every team here will feature Medivh, as he is essentially a Support. Adding him almost feels like cheating, but everyone knows that Medivh Cheats!!!
      Stitches, Sonya, Kel'Thuzad, Kael'thas, Medivh. Garrosh, Stitches, The Butcher, Kel'Thuzad, Medivh. ETC, Blaze, Fenix, Kel'Thuzad, Medivh. Johanna, Cassia, Raynor, Fenix, Medivh. Johanna, Blaze, Sgt. Hammer, Li-Ming, Medivh.
    • By Vlad
      This thread is for comments about our Shroud Skip guide.
    • By Archimage
      About: I've decided to make a guide on Leveling Heirlooms since I did not find any quick guides for it. This is my first guide, so please feel free to give some constructive feedback   What are Heirlooms: Heirlooms are items which stats scale with your character's level, reducing the need to replace gear whose stats are becoming too low for your level.  
      Heirloom Collections Tab: A new Heirloom system has been introduced in 6.1, adding all your heirlooms to your Collections, where they can be easily accessed without having to mail the heirlooms to other characters. Already earned heirlooms will be added to the collection once you have logged in with the character that has the heirlooms in their bank/bag. Any newly purchased heirlooms will automatically be added to your collection. To use a heirloom, simply find and click on it in the Heirlooms tab, and it will be placed in your inventory, and then equip it. You can also recreate the same heirloom if you want to dual-wield it, or have two trinkets or rings of the same type.
        Categories: Heirlooms can be divided into the following 4 categories, based on what stats they give:    Strength-Haste - Gear for Melee damage dealers that requires more haste than crit. These pieces were the tanking pieces, but the Parry/Dodge stats were changed in 6.0  
      Strength-Crit  - Gear for Melee damage dealers that requires more crit than haste.
      Agility - Gear for Melee+Ranged damage dealers
      Intellect - Gear for Spell-caster Damage Dealers and Healers
      There are also subcategories for armor types, like Cloth, Leather, Mail and Plate.
      There are also subcategories for slots, like Chest, Shoulder, Leggings, Weapons etc
      How to buy Leveling Heirlooms:   Heirlooms can be brought with the following currencies: Gold (g) Burning Blossoms (Midsummer Fire Festival)
      Tricky Treat (Hallow's End)
      Coin of Ancestry (Lunar Festival)
      Mark of Honor (PvP)
      Timewarped Badge (Timewalking)
        Darkmoon Prize Ticket (DPT) Champion's Seals (CS)   From these vendors: Alliance: Krom Stoutarm Horde: Estelle Gendry Guild Vendors: (A) Shay Pressler / (H) Goram  
      Head, Shoulder, Chest, Cloak and Pants pieces cost 500 gold / 50 Darkmoon Prize Tickets / 25 Champion's Seals One-handed weapons (except the fist weapons) cost 650 gold / 50 Darkmoon Prize Tickets / 25 Champion's Seals  Two-handed weapons cost 750 gold / 75 Darkmoon Prize Tickets / 40 Champion's Seals Off-hand weapons cost 500 gold / 50 Darkmoon Prize Tickets / 25 Champion's Seals Trinkets cost 700 gold / 70 Darkmoon Prize Tickets / 35 Champion's Seals The New Neck pieces cost 700 gold   Once you have brought a new heirloom, it's starting level range will be from level 1 to 60, meaning it will stop to scale up once you have reached level 60. This level cap can be increased twice by upgrading the piece with these tokens.    Armor (1-90): Ancient Heirloom Armor Casing costs 100 gold / 100 Darkmoon Prize Tickets / 55 Champion's Seals / 2000 Honor Armor (1-100): Timeworn Heirloom Armor Casing costs 2000 gold Weapon (1-90): Ancient Heirloom Scabbard costs 1200 gold / 120 Darkmoon Prize Tickets / 65 Champion's Seals / 2400 Honor Weapon (1-100): Timeworn Heirloom Scabbard costs 5000 gold   List of Heirlooms per Category   Strength-Haste Plate (Warrior / Paladin / Death Knights) Head: Burnished Helm of Might Shoulders:Burnished Pauldrons of Might Chest: Burnished Breastplate of Might  Back: Ripped Sandstorm Cloak Leggings: Burnished Legplates of Might Ring: Dread Pirate Ring Weapon: Bloodsoaked Skullforge Reaver Shield: Flamescarred Draconian Deflector
      Health Trinket: Swift Hand of Justice Mana Trinket: Discerning Eye of the Beast     Strength-Crit Plate (Warrior / Paladin / Death Knights) Head:Polished Helm of Valor Shoulders:Polished Spaulders of Valor Chest: Polished Breastplate of Valor Back: Worn Stoneskin Gargoyle Cape Leggings: Polished Legplates of Valor Ring: Dread Pirate Ring 2H Axe: Bloodied Arcanite Reaper Dual Wield 1H Sword: Bloodsoaked Skullforge Reaver  Health Trinket: Swift Hand of Justice Mana Trinket: Discerning Eye of the Beast  
      Agility Mail (Hunter, Enhancement Shaman) Head:Tarnished Raging Berserker's Helm Shoulders: Champion Herod's Shoulder Chest: Champion's Deathdealer Breastplate Back:Back:Inherited Cape of the Black Baron (Can be used by Agility Leather characters) Leggings:Tarnished Leggings of Destruction Ring: Dread Pirate Ring Dual Wield 1H Mace: Venerable Mass of McGowan (Combat Rogues can use this) Bow: Charmed Ancient Bone Bow Health Trinket: Swift Hand of Justice Mana Trinket: Discerning Eye of the Beast   Intellect Mail (Elemental/Restoration Shaman, Holy Paladins) Head: Mystical Coif of Elements Shoulders:Mystical Pauldrons of Elements Chest: Mystical Vest of Elements Back: Ancient Bloodmoon Cloak (Also used by Intellect Cloth and Intellect Leather) Leggings:Mystical Kilt of Elements Ring: Dread Pirate Ring 1H Mace: Devout Aurastone Hammer Staff: Dignified Headmaster's Charge Shield: Weathered Observer's Shield Health Trinket: Swift Hand of Justice Mana Trinket: Discerning Eye of the Beast   Agility Leather (Rogue, Feral Druid, Windwalker Monk. To a lesser extent Enhancement Shamans and Hunters) Head:Stained Shadowcraft Cap Shoulders: Stained Shadowcraft Spaulders Chest: Stained Shadowcraft Tunic Back:Inherited Cape of the Black Baron (Can be used by Agility Mail characters) Leggings:Stained Shadowcraft Pants Ring: Dread Pirate Ring  
      Dual Wield 1H Sword: Venerable Dal'Rend's Sacred Charge Dual Wield 1H Mace: Venerable Mass of McGowan (Enhancement Shamans can use this)   Dual Wield Daggers: Balanced Heartseeker Staff (Feral Druids): Burnished Warden Staff  Bow: Charmed Ancient Bone Bow  Health Trinket: Swift Hand of Justice Mana Trinket: Discerning Eye of the Beast  
      Intellect Leather (Balance/Restoration Druids, Mistweaver Monk) Head: Preened Tribal War Feathers Shoulders: Preened Ironfeather Shoulders Chest: Preened Ironfeather Breastplate  Back: Ancient Bloodmoon Cloak (Also used by Intellect Cloth and Intellect Mail) Leggings: Preened Wildfeather Leggings Ring: Dread Pirate Ring   1H Mace: Devout Aurastone Hammer  Staff: Dignified Headmaster's Charge Health Trinket: Swift Hand of Justice Mana Trinket: Discerning Eye of the Beast     Intellect Cloth (Mage, Priest, Warlock) Head: Tattered Dreadmist Mask Shoulders:Tattered Dreadmist Mantle Chest: Tattered Dreadmist Robe  Back: Ancient Bloodmoon Cloak (Also used by Intellect Leather and Intellect Mail) Leggings: Tattered Dreadmist Leggings Ring: Dread Pirate Ring   Staff: Dignified Headmaster's Charge  Off-Hand: Musty Tome of the Lost Health Trinket: Swift Hand of Justice Mana Trinket: Discerning Eye of the Beast  
      Collecting 35 heirlooms will reward you with a Chauffeured Chopper, which can be used as a mount from level 1.
    • By Nireas
      I usually sim my characters to get the best possible results. I enjoy the process quite a lot and since I reached 120, I wanted to find out the best build of the spec. (Note, I didn't want to find out what to play, but rather how my own build fares in comarison.) I rarely mind a 1-2% difference. If it goes above 2%, I really mind a change. What this thread is about is mainly to bring something in the attention of those who help making the class guides, especially the talent choices. To my surprise, I was awed to find out that certain talents outperform previous "Standard" choices in the endgame, probably due to the stat squish.

      The Frost go-to build (top dps) would probably be along the lines of <Icy Talons / Cold Heart - Runic Attenuation - Frozen Pulse - Gathering Storm - Breath of Sindragosa>. What I found out primarily was that after the removal of legendaries, Cold Heart severely underperforms at most given situations resulting in a major dps drop due to the low mastery. Gathering Storm also suffers from the same problem and most of the times, Frostwyrm's Fury is better overall. The biggest surprise of them all, however, was that Inexorable Assault overperforms quite a lot, and is the first reason why I made the topic. I then started simming with the above in mind and I came across a build that some would not consider on par with top dog builds around the meta, which is the use of Horn of Winter which overperforms both its other two options when using the Breath build. Talent Sim can be seen here. Another intresting thing, which I loved, was that the 2nd best build uses Obliteration as a lvl 100 talent and no other build surpassed it (Other than the first one, obviously). So, I encourage frost players out there to give their other, less common talents a try. To the class guide author(s), I believe that the two "underdog" talents will earn their spot in the class guides.

      Thank you for your time reading this.