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Helltooth Gargantuan Witch Doctor

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Guest Hello
59 minutes ago, Arkpit said:

Why are you listing Mantle of Channeling for Zuni btw? I don't see why you would use Firebats in the build?

Vampire bats with provides toughness and more damage than Haunt because Mantle of Channeling is 25% multiplicative and Poisoned Spirit is 20% additive.

59 minutes ago, Arkpit said:

You are also assuming a constant 69% which it isn't. Even with the Belt, it takes time to ramp up the fetish count unless you're running around with a Jerams which you probably aren't so you go in to each rift almost getting oneshotted by the tiniest thing which makes the Firebats odd since it's close range.

Assumptions are a limitation of theory-crafting. If we don't take the maximum number, then what number do we use? Also I don't understand how "Jeram's" (mask or bracer) would help maximise fetishes as quickly as possible. Anyway, the build is close range anyway since enemies need to be within 20 yards to take the extra damage from Confidence Ritual.

59 minutes ago, Arkpit said:

Now there is also the fact that you are comparing "Dmg reduced" with "Reduce dmg done" which isn't the same thing. Say you have 25%+25% addatative dmg reduce, this takes off 25 dmg from 100 and then 25% off 75 compared to reducing the outgoing dmg from the enemy by 25% straight up.

So the Helltooth communing with spirits is stronger than many of the added dmg reduction from other sets much like the passive Bad Medicin also is.

I thought all damage reduction multiplied together unless they added to form a separate category/multiplier like the Zunimassa 4p bonus. Which multiplicative category does Communing With Spirits add to? As far as I'm aware, it is its own multiplier.

59 minutes ago, Arkpit said:

Let's also account for the loss of "Witching Hour" by trading to this build which is quite a significant drop so while yes, the dps is higher for gargs in Zuni set but I still don't see it being worth the drop if safety compared to the amount damage gained.

Dropping CoE/TnT for Unity puts Zunimassa ahead in toughness and I believe it would still have higher dps than Helltooth even with the additional loss of The Witching Hour.

Overall, I don't really see why Helltooth would be played over Zunimassa for a Gargantuan build as the numbers all favour Zunimassa, unlike with the Firebats build where Arachyr trades Helltooth's toughness for damage. With that said, I think the guide should be updated with a simple switch of sets.

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On 2017-04-21 at 8:26 AM, Guest Hello said:

Assumptions are a limitation of theory-crafting. If we don't take the maximum number, then what number do we use?

I always prefer to use the realistic number which isn't the max number in an instance where fetish count will be going up and down so the max number just won't be realistic and ofc it's infinitly different accounting for HC ofc which I'm on but we'll just assume SC for now though.

-"Also I don't understand how "Jeram's" (mask or bracer) would help maximise fetishes as quickly as possible."

Jerams allow 3 quick wall of death in succession which adds 1 fetish per cast.

"Anyway, the build is close range anyway since enemies need to be within 20 yards to take the extra damage from Confidence Ritual."

Aye this would be a preference thing I think since I never use confidence Ritual unless I go Arachyr or Jade but yeah, this is kinda just due to HC play.

"I thought all damage reduction multiplied together unless they added to form a separate category/multiplier like the Zunimassa 4p bonus. Which multiplicative category does Communing With Spirits add to? As far as I'm aware, it is its own multiplier."

It's not that it's a multiplier, but if a dmg taken%+ dmg taken% is additative then the dmg taken% + dmg reduce% is better overall is what I meant.

"Dropping CoE/TnT for Unity puts Zunimassa ahead in toughness and I believe it would still have higher dps than Helltooth even with the additional loss of The Witching Hour."

This is the part I like as well since it works for both SC and HC so I agree for survivability!

I do think a lot of all this comes down to preference in playstyle so there is variences on both sides of survivability and damage with choices that works in favour for the individual player! (Spoken like a true politician >_<)

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Guest Hello
On 4/22/2017 at 10:13 PM, Arkpit said:

-"Also I don't understand how "Jeram's" (mask or bracer) would help maximise fetishes as quickly as possible."

Jerams allow 3 quick wall of death in succession which adds 1 fetish per cast.

Taking Jeram's Bracers would mean you have to sacrifice Lakumba's Ornament, and I think the toughness loss would be crippling.

Other than that, I enjoyed the constructive discussion we had together, so thank you!

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Guest Truth
On 4/24/2017 at 2:49 AM, Guest Hello said:

Taking Jeram's Bracers would mean you have to sacrifice Lakumba's Ornament, and I think the toughness loss would be crippling.

Other than that, I enjoyed the constructive discussion we had together, so thank you!

I'd have to agree, there is no way I'd use something over Lakumba's on HC 65+. Maybe for softcore it wouldn't matter. 

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6 hours ago, Guest Truth said:

I'd have to agree, there is no way I'd use something over Lakumba's on HC 65+. Maybe for softcore it wouldn't matter. 

Jerams was only brought up as the example of what could possibly increase the fetish count faster, never that it was a viable choice for the build, sorry if that was not clear ^_^

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Some awesome points from both of you, was great to read through, I must say. Great to see these kind of things in our comment threads! :D

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Guest Veashen

Not sure if the thread is still open, but I wanted to post about what I found that helps me clear rifts really fast. I use the barber skill for my kania cube. Instead of constant damage it wil explode. Clears wave so fast.

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On 8/18/2016 at 7:23 PM, Warden said:

There's a mistake in the guide.  You're supposed to wear either the Mask of Jeram or the Tasker and Theo gloves, whichever is rolled better, and then use the other one in the Cube.  When you do this, you only end up wearing five pieces of the Helltooth set.  It says this in the text, but does not show it in the equipment lists.

I'm obviously a bit of an Idiot because I didn't notice this either.  Been playing with the Full Helltooth set AND the Ring of Royal Grandeur  Maybe the guide could be a little more specific for macaroons like me.  Something like, "YOU WILL ONLY BE WEARING 5 OF THE 6 HEELTOOTH SET PIECES.  DON'T BE N IDIOT LIKE AL AND WEAR ALL 6 AND THE Ring of Royal Grandeur!   

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I'm still a little confused about the mechanics of Bane of the Stricken in this build. From what I understand,

1) Pets don't proc this, though they are benefited by it

2) Only player spells do proc this, but not if the damage coefficient is 0%, like Soul Harvest/Languish. Which would mean our only spells that would count are Wall of Death and Piranado.

I guess my question is with "each attack you make"; does that mean 1 WoD cast = 1 stricken stack? Or does stricken stack with ticks from WoD/Necrosis? Rift guardians are definitely still an issue for me in the 70's and aside from the obvious plus from the 25% passive dmg it seems like the build-up of this gem would be very slow (especially if it does NOT proc from ticking damage)

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Guest Hello
7 hours ago, Fablezim said:

I'm still a little confused about the mechanics of Bane of the Stricken in this build. From what I understand,

1) Pets don't proc this, though they are benefited by it

2) Only player spells do proc this, but not if the damage coefficient is 0%, like Soul Harvest/Languish. Which would mean our only spells that would count are Wall of Death and Piranado.

I guess my question is with "each attack you make"; does that mean 1 WoD cast = 1 stricken stack? Or does stricken stack with ticks from WoD/Necrosis? Rift guardians are definitely still an issue for me in the 70's and aside from the obvious plus from the 25% passive dmg it seems like the build-up of this gem would be very slow (especially if it does NOT proc from ticking damage)

Yes, both of your points are true.

I believe Stricken has an internal cooldown that is based on your attack speed, though I cannot remember the formula.

I do not know if DoTs/Necrosis does stack Stricken, but from my playing experience, this build does have a higher transition point than other builds from Powerful to Stricken, which I estimate to be around the low 80s.

Stricken is still necessary in the higher GRs as RG fights take longer and longer, and a good indicator (though not a hard-fast rule) that you should consider switching Powerful for Stricken is when the Powerful buff drops off before the RG's death.

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Guest Ssilvak

For the speed farming version : is Tasker and Theo, Mask of Jeram or full Helltooth the BiS ?

According to the author, it is the full Helltooth but I want your opinions guys =)

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11 hours ago, Guest Ssilvak said:

For the speed farming version : is Tasker and Theo, Mask of Jeram or full Helltooth the BiS ?

According to the author, it is the full Helltooth but I want your opinions guys =)

All 3? With speed farming you still wear gloves or helm, cube the other with cubed RoRG. The BiS is whichever item is rolled better :)

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On 2017-06-27 at 3:29 PM, Guest Hello said:

I do not know if DoTs/Necrosis does stack Stricken

Stricken is still necessary in the higher GRs as RG fights take longer and longer, and a good indicator (though not a hard-fast rule) that you should consider switching Powerful for Stricken is when the Powerful buff drops off before the RG's death.

Dots does not stack Stricken, only the initial cast by WoD and Piranado. It may seem slow but like Hello also said, you pretty much need it later on but it should always be noted that Stricken should pretty much never be used before GR 75-80 anyway.

Many make the mistake of equipping stricken right away and go GR50 with it which is not great since it'll barely benefit you. I personally go with Bane of the Powerful up to like 60 since I play HC.

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Guest greyghost

Hi, first thanks for the guide. I have been a WD from the beginning and have been running this build successfully. I can't seem to play another class. I keep thinking about logging back onto my WD lol.

I have soloed up to 70 but have noticed it getting harder definitely depending on the map.

My question is this: would chilled dogs rune be viable at all for more damage? (Since garg benefits from it? Not sure about hounds.) How much exactly does leeching heal? I'm experimenting with it now and it seems to do more damage but I'm not sure on the math. Obviously you have to be more careful health wise.

Also, I got an ancient 1H with grasp of the dead rune (zombies I think?). How would GotD be in place of Piranhas? Would I be missing out on a lot of damage or just CC?

Thanks!

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Guest gathis

Am I the only one who has Soul Harvest without stacks after patch (17/7/18)?

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Guest xNeoshadowx

Was wondering which legendary gems you should be actively leveling first IE. Trapped, Enforcer or Striken/Powerful? (still low GR35-40ish range). I also see from Arkpit that bane of the powerful is recommended over Striken for low GR so should i put time in leveling that whilst also leveling striken?

Another thing is with the Ring of Royal Granduers in the cube, why use both compass rose AND travelers amulet when you technically only need one for the set piece?

Besides the Furnace is there any other recommended cube weapon or is the furnace best all round?

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5 hours ago, Guest xNeoshadowx said:

Was wondering which legendary gems you should be actively leveling first IE. Trapped, Enforcer or Striken/Powerful? (still low GR35-40ish range). I also see from Arkpit that bane of the powerful is recommended over Striken for low GR so should i put time in leveling that whilst also leveling striken?

Another thing is with the Ring of Royal Granduers in the cube, why use both compass rose AND travelers amulet when you technically only need one for the set piece?

Besides the Furnace is there any other recommended cube weapon or is the furnace best all round?

When it comes to leveling gems you can ignore Stricken until you start running GR70+ because you'll never make it worth while in any lower GRs. I never equip or level Stricken until I get up there and when I feel like I start needing it I get it up.

RoRG only works on set that has more than 2 pieces so it does not work with Endless Walk set and the same for Focus/Restraint combo.

Furnace is WDs best progress wpn still and it is right now kinda "meh" compared to what other classes get (Necro gets Corroded Fang which is 200% damage to basically everything).

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Guest xNeoshadowx

Thanks, though i have another question. When looking at the Arachyr firebats build it showed that the Helltooth set can be used as an 'alternative'. Does that mean that we can use the firebats build with Helltooth on equal standing as the Arachyr set? Also comparing the two which is seen as the better option Gargantuan or Firebats?

 

I know the gargantuans hit hard but pet AI is finicky at best and has led to a few spots of irritation when they attack the wrong TARGET! .....ahem. Anyway is there a secondary belt slot for Garg build? the belt is one of 3 items i haven't been able to get yet (Harvester and furnace being the other two).

Also how does Henri's perquisition work? is it first time per enemy or is there a CD between attacks before it can proc again? (currently use Uhkapian serpent as i dont have Henri yet)

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5 hours ago, Guest xNeoshadowx said:

Does that mean that we can use the firebats build with Helltooth on equal standing as the Arachyr set?

Is short, yes. Helltooth used to be a safer option and back then Arachyr was lacking bit in damage but after the buff to Arachyr I've felt that there is no reason to go with Helltooth if your goal is to play the Firebats build. There are gigantic issues with that build overall though for Hardcore players that doesn't have a support team. Can take that part later.

5 hours ago, Guest xNeoshadowx said:

Also comparing the two which is seen as the better option Gargantuan or Firebats?

You kind of have to make a choice because they are two distinct playstyles and needs a lot of different types of gear.
Gargantuan builds will pretty much always push higher in solo, especially playing hardcore because not only does the gargs hit harder (when they hit a target), but the build is x10 safer.
Firebats is one of the best aoe trashclears in a group when rolled for area damage but is useless for bosses so you need support and single target with you. I did solo HC with Firebats one season and it was very scary. Ykou get oneshotted everytime something hits you and you're not channeling.

5 hours ago, Guest xNeoshadowx said:

Anyway is there a secondary belt slot for Garg build?

Being a HC player I've often opted for String of Ears due to the massive damage reduction if you're caught in melee but it's not very helpful outside HC ad I would aim for Witching Hour all the way with Belt of Transcendance as secondary.

5 hours ago, Guest xNeoshadowx said:

Also how does Henri's perquisition work? is it first time per enemy or is there a CD between attacks before it can proc again?

Only the first hit counts and no internal CD so it is virtually useless on bosses. I've always used Uhkapian myself because it offers solid damage reduction from both trash as well as the entire bossfight. The kitten makes you godlike on trash but if you ever die on hardcore it'll be on a boss anyway ^^

So, I'll end this with saying I've played every possible WD build through season 3-10 and ever since season 6 I try to actively avoid Gargantuan Helltooth like the plague despite it being a top tier build only due to how the terrible AI is and I got so tired of screaming at my pets for always either being at the other side of the screen or just plainly standing around doing nothing at all after a resummon...

I find it much more fun to play the Zunimassa Poison Dart if I want pets with me but my favorite WD playstyle after all this time is definitly Jade Harvester! Mostly because you are in 100% control of what and when you are killing and who doesn't love when half the screen explode? ^^

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Guest jonjw19

So is there a reason why this is still featured guide (as well as the Darts build) but the Zuni garg build isn't?

Isn't HT Garg just an inferior version of Zuni Garg at this point?

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16 hours ago, Guest jonjw19 said:

So is there a reason why this is still featured guide (as well as the Darts build) but the Zuni garg build isn't?

Isn't HT Garg just an inferior version of Zuni Garg at this point?

Zunimassa Gargantuan Witch Doctor is being considered and will likely be added.

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Guest GrizzlyShaman

How essential is Tasker and Theo? I have been running a Helltooth Garg for this season, and I have been stuck at GR 65. Literally the only thing I am missing on the build is those gloves and I can't seem to get them. Is it possible that I am doing something wrong or is it really those gloves?

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7 hours ago, Guest GrizzlyShaman said:

How essential is Tasker and Theo? 

Very essential and it is because all "Attack speed" on your gear and paragons is translated into pure %damage for pets.

Tasker and TheoTasker and Theo on the other hand is the only item that actually increase the attacks speed for your pets and making your gargs attack 50% fasters is just directly translated into 50% damage increase on things like bosses and elites that last a little longer.

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Guest Emphyrio

 Haven't read all comments, maybe it was mentionned, but obviously put Gargantuan on the left-click mouse button and Wall of Death on a 1-4 hotkey, it's much much more comfortable...

 I play a mix between this build and the acid cloud helltooth build, for speed farming. acid cloud is handy to quickly clear large area of regular mobs (I removed piranhado).

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On ‎2017‎-‎10‎-‎01 at 10:41 PM, Guest Emphyrio said:

maybe it was mentionned, but obviously put Gargantuan on the left-click mouse button and Wall of Death on a 1-4 hotkey, it's much much more comfortable...

I dislike this myself though since the GargantuanGargantuan reset is too important to misclick due to me moving with the mouse button while the Wall of DeathWall of Death is on a low CD so it's not so bad to accidentally click it. As with all the placements on buttons, it's all a preference from player to player.

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      PTR Character Copy
      The option to copy your existing Diablo III characters from your live account to the PTR will be available and can be done directly through the PTR client. However, only one region per account can be copied at a time. So, if you choose to copy characters from your account in a different region, any previously copied PTR characters will be lost.
      Step 1: Log into the live game and then log out.
      Step 2: Log into PTR client and create a level 1 character. After you're done, return to the main character screen.
      Step 3: Click on the "PTR Copy" button located in the upper right-hand corner. (The PTR Copy button will not appear in-game until you have created a new level 1 character.)
      Step 4: Select your region.
      Step 5: Click "Copy." This will copy all characters on your account from the selected region.
      Step 6: You will be disconnected from the PTR client.
      Step 7: Log back in. Your copied characters will be available for play.
      Please note that you can only copy characters from one gameplay region at a time. If you choose to copy characters from a different region, any previously copied PTR characters will be lost. In addition, you can only copy characters over to your PTR account once every 24 hours. Attempting to copy characters before this cooldown is up will result in an error.
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      As this is a test server, please anticipate uneven game performance, and note that restarts and downtime may occur without warning. Thank you, and we look forward to your feedback!
       
      A killstreak-based seasonal power, new Crusader and Monk sets, Barbarian reworks and more!
    • By Stan
      This week's Challenge Rift 120 revolves around Demon Hunters.
      Challenge Rift 120 EU
      Gear
      Visage of Gunes Rakoff's Glass of Life + Gogok of Swiftness (Rank 57) Strongarm Bracers Elusive Ring + Legacy of Dreams (Rank 53) Pandemonium Loop + Pain Enhancer (Rank 61) Karlei's Point + Holy Point Shot Kanai's Cube Powers
      Dawn Aquila Cuirass Elusive Ring Skills
      VengeanceSeethe ImpaleRicochet PreparationInvigoration Shadow PowerGloom VaultRattling Roll CompanionBat Companion  
      Passives
      Sharpshooter Tactical Advantage Custom Engineering Awareness Impale is your main damage-dealing ability. You won't have any problems with toughness this week. You can Vault through Elites to proc your Strongarm Bracers and deal increased damage. Vengeance is going to have permanent uptime thanks to Gogok of Swiftness. For more information on layout, check out Mnemonic's video guide linked below.
      Challenge Rift 120 US
      Gear
      Andariel's Visage Dovu Energy Trap Mantle of Channeling Aquila Cuirass Frostburn Sanguinary Vambraces Hellcat Waistguard Depth Diggers Irontoe Mudsputters Convention of Elements + Bane of the Trapped (Rank 76) Unity + Legacy of Dreams (Rank 76) Leonine Bow of Hashir + Sin Seekers Kanai's Cube Powers
      Echoing Fury Cindercoat Squirt's Necklace Skills
      VengeanceSeethe GrenadeCluster Grenades Rapid FireWithering Fire Rain of VengeanceShade CompanionBat Companion Shadow PowerBlood Moon Passives
      Sharpshooter Ambush Grenadier Single Out Spam Vengeance, Companion, and Shadow Power every time they're up. Grenades will do your most damage, so throw them as you walk to kill trash. Use Rapid Fire for high single-target damage output on Elites or the Guardian. Cast Rain of Vengeance on Elites. Here's Raxx with his clear of the rift.
    • By Stan
      The drop chance of Legacy of Dreams from Greater Rift Guardians will be increased in Season 19. A suggestion has been passed on to the dev team to include the gem, which replicates the Legacy of Nightmares buff, in the Haedrig's Gift cache.
      The increased drop chance means the gem will have a higher priority to drop from the Greater Rift Guardians as outlined in the blue post below.
      Blizzard (Source)
      Hello everyone,
      In this post I just want to discuss my views on two different approaches for starting a season, and why adding a reworked Legacy of Dreams gem to the 3rd Haedrig reward makes sense.
      As noted, I feel there are two sorts of progressive players in D3. First, you have players that want to take sets, whatever is the most powerful, and just go for it out of the gate. Next, you have a group of players who prefer the slow grind of gathering different pieces of loot for a more player driven build.
      Right now, the first option is the only relevant option if you want to compete out of the gate.
      By allowing Legacy of Dreams to drop with Haedrigs gift, and re-balancing as a level 50 max gem rather than level 99, you fully open up the option for players to hit the ground running with Legacy of Dreams.
      I see absolutely no negative to these two changes, but wanted to see what the community thought?
      Thank you!
      That’s certainly a thought. I’ll pass the feedback on to the development team.
      I will note, however, in the next patch, we are going to increase the drop rate for Legacy of Dreams from Greater Rift Guardians. It’s a little low currently and hopefully that will help with the feeling that this gem is too scarce. We’ll give that a go first and see if we need to re-evaluate after.
      Is this to be interpreted as making it drop sooner when you first start collecting the gems?
      Correct. While you’ll get it eventually even with bad RNG by process of elimination, this change should make it more likely to drop sooner rather than later.
      Again, not guaranteed; random is still random and bad luck still happens. But it should be better after the update.
    • By Stan
      This week's Challenge Rift revolves around Crusaders. Check out the video guides by Mnemonic and Raxx to get started!
      Challenge Rift 119 EU
      Gear
      Thorns of the Invoker Set (5/6) Halcyon's Ascent + Bane of the Stricken (Rank 55) Vigilante Belt Gladiator Gauntlets Stone of Jordan + Bane of the Trapped (Rank 55) Ring of Royal Grandeur + Boyarsky's Chip (Rank 55) Hack + Vo'Toyias Spiker Kanai's Cube Powers
      Akarat's Awakening Aquila Cuirass The Flavor of Time Skills
      ConsecrationBed of Nails PunishCelerity ProvokeHit Me Iron SkinReflective Skin Steed ChargeSpiked Barding Akarat's ChampionProphet Passives
      Iron Maiden Hold Your Ground Finery Heavenly Strength Ignore Consecration, Punish will be your main generator. Use Iron Skin whenever Akarat's Champion is on cooldown for survivability. Use Steed Charge for efficiency. Use Akarat's Champion on cooldown and don't play defensively when in Akarat's form. For more information about the layout and synergies, check out Mnemonic's clear linked below.
      Challenge Rift 119 US
      Gear
      Armor of Akkhan Set (5/6) Talisman of Akkhan + Bane of the Trapped (Rank 35) Aughild's Power Aughild's Search Captain Crimson's Silk Girdle Captain Crimson's Thrust Unity Obsidian Ring of the Zodiac The Furnace + Frydehr's Wrath Kanai's Cube Powers
      Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker Illusory Boots Obsidian Ring of the Zodiac Skills
      Laws of ValorUnstoppable Force CondemnVacuum ProvokeToo Scared to Run Akarat's ChampionProphet SlashGuard Steed ChargeEndurancez Passives
      Heavenly Strength Holy Cause Indestructible Finery Keep Laws of Valor, Condemn, Provoke, and Akarat's Champion up all the time. Condemn does all of your damage. Use Steed Charge to move in between elites. Here's Raxx with his weekly clear of the rift.
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