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Zagam

5.4 Warlock (Intellect) Trinkets

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Having both Cha-Ye's and Wushoolay's, I have to say I'm findng the uptimes (as affliction) to be very similar, and both beat the Talisman proc consistently for me. Something isn't feeling right here with regard to the Cha-Ye's. If all three trinkets have uptimes in practice that are about equal (20-25%ish for me) Cha-Ye falls behind Wushoolay's. The only thing I can think of is when I'm running parses I'm not raid buffed so I don't have enough crit as Affliction to make this trinket pay off.

Edited by Kravn

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I've got a quick question for the Volatile Talisman. I just bought it today. Other than during the opener what should I be looking to do when this bad boy procs? Currently going to be using it in Demo so I assume that burning MC procs with soulfire would be the best route, but I wanted to check. Also would burning MC procs be best done in or out of Meta while Acceleration is active?

Edited by Cruzan

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I did some simulation craft all the night and I'm doing right now and doesn't seems correct.

From my sims old trinkets are muchhhh better then new ones... I can't believe it :<.

Check it out:

Destruction

Talisman+ Cha Essence

Mastery> Haste 96860

Talisman+Hydra 97238

Mastery> Haste

Talisman+LOC

Mastery>Haste 101271

Talisman+ROY

Mastery>Haste 101454

Hydra+LOC

Mastery>Haste 98728

Hydra+Cha Essence

Mastery>Haste 93849

And now this !!

ROY+LOC

Mastery>Haste 102627

Can someone explain what's going on with new trinkets? So should I stay with ROY and LOC until heroic ones? And why i spend 300 dkp, all the 3 trinkets sucks, from BIS list Talisman and Cha Essence are one of the best ones, but doesn't seem so or sims aren't recognizing the trinkets/procs?

Edited by Vortex

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Things just changed with RPPM adjustments. The new Simcraft models them more accurately. The new update is available today. I'll be doing some work updating this list tonight.

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Overall, the Simcrafts look a lot better today than yesterday for us warlocks - Affliction is firmly in the lead now at T15H gear levels (granted this will likely change again as modeling is refined.)

Of my extensive collection of trinkets I have to say, my personal best results have been with Wushoolay's (average 35% uptime, but swing to 50+). I've found Cha-Ye's to have unimpressive uptimes consistently with either Aff or Demo + Forgings, and since the RPPM change the Volatile Talisman (for me) has been terrible, rarely even reaching 18% uptime.

http://www.worldoflo.../10/?enc=bosses

You'll see over my boss attempts last night (About 50% Demo/50% Affliction) I maintained the Electrified buff 26.3% of the time. Accelerated was only at 14.5%.

These uptimes are deprecated a bit since you spend a lot of Lei Shen time not DPSing and just moving out of stuff.

I'll be swapping out the Volatile Talisman for Cha-Ye's on the next raid and see how that works for me - But I'm really regretting dropping almost 2K valor on what appears to be a nigh-worthless trinket (considering I had 2/2 upgrade H:LOC and Essence of Terror before).

Edited by Kravn

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My current trinkets are LoTc normal none upgraded and Essence of Terror normal 2/2 upgraded,no luck for trinkets at all,is it worth to replace any of those 2 for Wusholay LFR?I guess the numbers for trinkets changed after Blizz buffed the uptime,proc rate etc.

Edited by Glorn

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Do trinket pairings have any affect when testing them? For instance if I test trinket A and trinket B by themselves and they turn out to be BiS is it possible that a combination of A and C might actually be better because of the way they interact?

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Trinkets don't have dependable CDs anymore, so trying to pair them to see interactions isn't a reliable method in real world anticipation and application.

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Where's Cha-Ye's for Affliction?

And Volatile it's really worse than LotC 510? Weird.

Btw, with 30% haste How can I calculate the average ICD?

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I have a question regarding trinket calculations,to be more specific im talking about this one:

- Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance – 0.8085*(1+SpellCritChance) RealPPM on critical harmful spells and periodic spells. No ICD.

What is that 0.8085?Where did you get it from?When I'm using my own Crit chance should write number of %?like 17% for example?

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I have a question regarding trinket calculations,to be more specific im talking about this one:

- Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance – 0.8085*(1+SpellCritChance) RealPPM on critical harmful spells and periodic spells. No ICD.

What is that 0.8085?Where did you get it from?When I'm using my own Crit chance should write number of %?like 17% for example?

It's the Default RPPM from the trinket, before any haste or Critical Chance modifier.

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I have a question regarding trinket calculations,to be more specific im talking about this one:

- Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance – 0.8085*(1+SpellCritChance) RealPPM on critical harmful spells and periodic spells. No ICD.

What is that 0.8085?Where did you get it from?When I'm using my own Crit chance should write number of %?like 17% for example?

Base formula for Cha-Ye's: RealPPM Factor * (1+% Crit Chance)

For you with 17% Crit, your effective RealPPM rate is 0.8085 * 1.17 = 0.946 RealPPM or ABOUT 1 per minute. This trinket is heavily dependent on your Crit chance.

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Base formula for Cha-Ye's: RealPPM Factor * (1+% Crit Chance)

For you with 17% Crit, your effective RealPPM rate is 0.8085 * 1.17 = 0.946 RealPPM or ABOUT 1 per minute. This trinket is heavily dependent on your Crit chance.

So if Cha-ye's gets better and better with crit, would Wushoolay's be a better choice for Affliction?

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Base formula for Cha-Ye's: RealPPM Factor * (1+% Crit Chance)

For you with 17% Crit, your effective RealPPM rate is 0.8085 * 1.17 = 0.946 RealPPM or ABOUT 1 per minute. This trinket is heavily dependent on your Crit chance.

Interesting,so I guess with my current gear(508ilvl equipped) and with my trinkets(LotC hc non upgraded + cha-ye's)it's best to go for 4717 haste breakpoint and then balance crit and mastery?I stopped playing affliction completely when 5.2 came,mostly playing demo,switching for destro on some encounters.
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Remember, the DPS on the first page of this thread shows theoretical levels for trinkets on a single target fight. Most people will read those numbers and say wow, Cha-Ye's is better than Wushoolay's...well, not really. Snapshotting Wush and Breath of the Hydra together will create MONSTER DPS. I'm actually growing tired of Destruction's balancing of Haste. I feel it's too clunky and burning Chaos Bolts is really just...meh to me. The best part of Demo and Affliction is the ability to snapshot buffs. This isn't seen im simulation programs because it requires human instant interpretation and reaction. This is why skilled Warlocks playing Affliction will almost always outperform other specs given the right situation. There are instances where other specs come out ahead, but that's generally why Affliction parses are higher than other specs. Obviously some fight mechanics don't permit such clever tactics, but most do.

Affliction's BiS trinkets, in my opinion, are Breath of the Hydra and Wushoolay's. I've been unable to acquire any of the new 4 trinkets to personally test, so I can't offer any insight into that in terms of real data.

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Still trying to get a wooshulay's, but I have to say that acceleration buff off of the volatile talisman isn't too shabby. The only problem I have with it is that it will expire halfway in to my DS during the opener. I haven't been able to figure out if I'm better off snapshotting again as DS expires, or just as the talisman expires. These procs are pretty dang powerful though and the talisman/breath of the hydra combo is pretty nice for me atm :D

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I think Wush is a much better choice.

I've been delaying my dark soul & troll haste buff until I see a wush proc within the first 5-7 seconds and then timing the 20% haste with 10 stacks of the intellect buff just before either buff runs off - usually my volatile/lightweave buffs will be off but man I'm seeing my affdots getting refreshed at 250% damage while doing that XD

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after inspecting top warlocks,most of them went for cha-ye+vision combo.I assume they are bis for demo/affliction or is it because tops often jump between specs?

I can play both specs equally well,but after watching Method's Twin Consorts kill video,Sparkuggs' dishing out so much damage as demo...just...wow...im definitely gonna polish my demonology rotation.

Edited by Fuji

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I'm no simcraft whiz, so it's possible that this would be difficult to calculate, but I have a question about when trinkets will proc.

After a trinket's ICD is up, do you have any sense of what the standard deviation (in seconds) from the time a trinket's ICD is up to when a these non-on-use trinkets pop themselves?

The reason I ask is that (as you note in your disclaimer) the time from when an ICD is up to when the trinket procs will be varied. I'm just trying to get a sense of whether, after ICDs for particular trinkets are done, what kind of time window I'm looking at until the trinket will proc. If it's in the order of about 1-2 seconds (on average) then it makes sense to closely monitor ICDs with some kind of tracker, if it could be anywhere between 1 and 20 seconds, I'd probably be better off just setting up a weakaura for when the trinket ACTUALLY has proc'ed.

Any advice on this issue is welcomed.

Zagam, thanks again for all you've done here.

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I'm no simcraft whiz, so it's possible that this would be difficult to calculate, but I have a question about when trinkets will proc.

After a trinket's ICD is up, do you have any sense of what the standard deviation (in seconds) from the time a trinket's ICD is up to when a these non-on-use trinkets pop themselves?

The reason I ask is that (as you note in your disclaimer) the time from when an ICD is up to when the trinket procs will be varied. I'm just trying to get a sense of whether, after ICDs for particular trinkets are done, what kind of time window I'm looking at until the trinket will proc. If it's in the order of about 1-2 seconds (on average) then it makes sense to closely monitor ICDs with some kind of tracker, if it could be anywhere between 1 and 20 seconds, I'd probably be better off just setting up a weakaura for when the trinket ACTUALLY has proc'ed.

Any advice on this issue is welcomed.

Zagam, thanks again for all you've done here.

No problem, glad to have helped.

In regards to trinkets, there is no dependability with procs. There have been hot fixes to alleviate some of the tremendous RNG behind the trinkets, but I don't have referenced the formula that GC provided that shows how trinkets are meant to proc more often the longer they go without proccing. Basically, the new trinkets have completely random proc rates. I got Unerring last night and tested it immediately. I went about 2 minutes without a proc and then got 3 in really quick succession. If you're wanting to depend on a proc for these new trinkets, you're going to be disappointed as there's no real way to get a feel for when they will pop. These new trinkets have no ICD, so tracking them is extremely difficult. Just know that you won't have the crappy RNG of not having one proc for 4 minutes happen anymore...that's what the fix to their CDs did. They should proc with the listed RealPPMs I listed as a worst case scenario. The longer you go using the trinkets without a proc, the higher your chances of receiving a proc soon. If I got that formula handy, I MIGHT be able to figure out the maximum ICD of each trinket and then create a sort of confidence interval (likely 95%, no way I can do 99%) of when the trinket is most likely to proc. Just understand that with randomness and statistics, there are always outliers.

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The big problem with the 99% confidence interval would be that it would be so large as to be practically unhelpful (being able to say that there's a 99% chance of a trinket proc in a 4 minute window doesn't do much for anyone).

Sounds like I'm going to be left with just setting up a weakaura for when the trinket has ACTUALLY proc'ed and hoping beyond hope that (as destro) I have been a good warlock and pooled about 3.5 embers for when the trink pops so I can time my CB or SB for then.

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What I found out last night was trying to time a Chaos Bolt with that trinket is a lost cause. Sitting there waiting for a proc and using Backdraft charges to fire out a Chaos Bolt had no effect on my CB because the trinket wore off before CB landed. I think if you track the proc, your best use of it would be to use Immolate to get full crits for the duration. This alone would generate an entire Ember. Now if the stars allgned and Perfect Aim proc'd right before you could Dark Soul, then you'd be generating Embers as you're firing of Chaos Bolts so now you're looking in the realm of 6-7 Chaos Bolts during Dark Soul. If you also slap on Rain of Fire, you might get 8. I don't think the value of this trinket is timing a Chaos Bolt with it. I think the magic is unlocked when you Immolate during it. Also consider once you get your 4pc T15, you could generate 4/10 of an Ember with an Incinerate. Pretty crazy stuff.

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